7 ms·

As many IT people in Denmark is pointing out, it's not really about replacing Office and Windows, it's all the surrounding infrastructure that will be the main

As many IT people in Denmark is pointing out, it's not really about replacing Office and Windows, it's all the surrounding infrastructure that will be the main issue. Are these Linux machines going to authenticate against the Azure Active Directory, maybe just a local Active Directory, or are the IT department going to run a separate service in parallel? Are they moving away from Exchange Server... probably not, given that it's half of the staff. Are they using Intune, if so what's the replacement strategy where? My guess is that many of these staff members are going to use webmail and run Windows programs in remote desktop. The investments in the infrastructure isn't high enough, nor have they addressed any of the hard problems and the time frame is rather short. I doubt any significant money and time has been set aside for training. It is going to end in complete failure, the employees are going to complain about lost productivity and a frustrating work environment. They are setting themselves up for complete failure. The same is happening in a number of schools, where Linux and LibreOffice is set to replace ChromeBooks for some students. The expectation is that the cost is going to be €2.25M per year, for the next two years, then there will be a cost saving of €4-5M. Again no plans for handling authentication, email, file sharing or provisioning. They'll just force the students out of the relatively protected Google Workspace for Students, into the "real" Google/Gmail ecosystems where they are less protected against data mining. This will all end badly and it will be because of poor planning. Then the next US president steps in, calms things down and we forget the whole thing in 2 years.

decide1000 1y ago
I hope all employees will use their experience to make a success of this project. Switching to Linux and ditching Micro$oft should be priority of each European country.
- mrweasel 1y ago
  I hope so too, but I fear that the implementation is rushed and won't yield the positive results it could have.
  - eu_os 1y ago
    That's what the EU OS project is also about! https://eu-os.eu https://eu-os.eu
    - svelle 1y ago
      Curious why it's based on Distros primarily backed by US-based companies and not something like SUSE?
    - nickserv 1y ago
      I could get behind this and contribute if it didn't use a US corporate distro as a base. Ideally it should be something like Nix: non-profit foundation headquartered in the Netherlands. SUSE could work too.
    - emptysongglass 1y ago
      As many, many in your issue tracker have commented, you should not be building on Fedora as a base.
s1mplicissimus 1y ago
> They'll just force the students out of the relatively protected Google Workspace for Students, into the "real" Google/Gmail ecosystems where they are less protected against data mining What? This sounds like there is an observable way of telling that there's different levels of data mining going on in these two spaces, mind sharing the evidence?
- mrweasel 1y ago
  There is no data mining/profiling in Googles educational offering (also no ads, which there is in regular Gmail): > Google Workspace for Education Core Services (like Gmail, Google Calendar, Classroom, and more) have no ads, and student information in Core Services is never used to create profiles for ad targeting, or sold to third parties.[1] 1) https://edu.google.com/intl/ALL_us/our-values/privacy-security/frequently-asked-questions/ https://edu.google.com/intl/ALL_us/our-values/privacy-securi...
  - b112 1y ago
    Makes sense. Get them used to using Google services, or else someone else will step in and do it. Same reason Microsoft used to give all sorts of free licenses to students.
skinkestek 1y ago
I'm currently working at a large public institution in Norway. Half the team runs Linux, and the only real constraint is using Edge for SSO. (Firefox works too - you just have to actually log in like it's 2008.) Honestly, everything else runs smoother than what my Windows-using teammates are dealing with.
- thyristan 1y ago
  That is probably just a setting missing from your Firefox profile that allows your company Kerberos realm/domain. If your institution hasn't locked down your Firefox config, you can fix this yourself: https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/5/html/deployment_guide/sso-config-firefox https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_...
  - rcarmo 1y ago
    It’s really not. Edge bundles a number of authentication libraries with the Linux version that enable things like remote passkey support.
    - vaylian 1y ago
      What is "remote passkey support"? I am familiar with passkeys (both resident and non-resident). But I haven't heard of remote passkeys yet.
      - thyristan 1y ago
        I guess maybe passkeys over some kind of USB/RDP redirection. But searching the internet doesn't yield any useful results. Or maybe something new and proprietary like all those incompatible passkey implementations out there...
      - rcarmo 1y ago
        Bluetooth binding to your mobile device, which then handles MFA with biometrics.
o_m 1y ago
I see this as a win. It will hopefully prune the incompetent managers/leaders and all the other incompetent tech workers that don't understand there is a world outside of the Microsoft/Google ecosystem.
- freehorse 1y ago
  I want to believe that it is not actual incompetence (and nobody will get pruned) but rather laziness/habit/lack of motivation. I have been in a big org where any issues related to how non-windows systems were integrated were, frustratingly, ignored, even if those systems were supposed to be supported and offered as choices (and indeed chosen by many employees). The IT people working on the servers did not care because in windows everything was working fine, and other departments did not have the actual tools to solve anything. They were asking us if we had any spare computer around they could borrow to test things ffs. I hope such changes bring at least the necessary motivation to engage with such issues seriously.
jve 1y ago
> Are these Linux machines going to authenticate against the Azure Active Directory... Are they using Intune, if so what's the replacement strategy where? This comes up all the time when we talk about Linux in corporate deployment. As I have only experience in MS word regarding governance, let me ask this: - Is there really no tools for Linux world that allows managing loads of Linux machines in an easy manner as it is in MS word (applying GPO policies)? A tool that can be easily set up and managed and doesn't have to always resort to scripting? - If there is, why people are not using them? I'm kind of aware some things are that allow managing Linux machines via Windows AD GPO, but that depends on MS domain there. Seems like a ripe for a startup to provide open source tool(s) with, say, paid support for the enterprises.
- powgpu 1y ago
  well for server is nix, but not sure about desktop.
  - ChocolateGod 1y ago
    I'd say using Nix is bordering on using scripting. Someone still has to write the method that extracts your Nix configuration into a file.
- fock 1y ago
  and then most of the places I know happily allow employees admin access for "just that piece of software they need" and simultaneously push for "zero-trust". There's no point in it at all and you can just as well use saltstack to rollout apparmor-policies on your locked-down linux (and suddenly the same people wanting GPOs tell you that linux is untenable because of usage restrictions)
- ChocolateGod 1y ago
  > - Is there really no tools for Linux world that allows managing loads of Linux machines in an easy manner as it is in MS word (applying GPO policies)? A tool that can be easily set up and managed and doesn't have to always resort to scripting? Nope, there's no unification in configuration formats (yml, ini etc), locations (/var, /etc, /usr, /opt/etc) or registries (dconf, gconf). Yes, standards exist, but they are rarely followed to the letter.
fock 1y ago
yesterday: I saw the weird CVE for M365 which "exploits" some LLM through messaging embedded in emails. today: got a very long email, wanted to search for our department in it. Outlook: "Search is a deprecated feature". Despite all the "but you can't extrapolate to a large org from personal experiences"-FUD around, I think for most orgs (especially governments which are generally far behind on processes) it would be easy to switch from a feature-perspective. The problem is the army of employees and contractors who are very happy to defend Microsoft for keeping their non-automated thiefdoms (such is non-cloud AD administration at most places I extrapolate ....). There is hardly anyone there to implement the necessary processes and rather than to send out their underlings to FOSDEM, leadership is happy to get an invite by Microsoft (or a cloud-provider...) to an "innovation-summit" instead.
- tonyedgecombe 1y ago
  I was watching my wife navigate Outlook the other day, I can't believe how bad it's got since I last used it. It was completely unresponsive on brand new hardware. The UI was awful.
  - datadrivenangel 1y ago
    Outlook has gotten so terrible that the web version is better these days...
  - TheNewsIsHere 1y ago
    Outlook used to be one of the best email clients available. Now it’s essentially the worst imaginable. We just renewed our 365 licenses at my company for one more year. I’ve been mentally sketching out an exit strategy. I inventoried what we use in 365 and Azure, and there’s not a single thing we can’t replace with an alternative we run or a different provider that’s a bit less hostile to third party ecosystems/standards/etc.
    - ImJamal 1y ago
      Have you worked out the cost differences?
IceDane 1y ago
It's also just absurd in general since no one who has used LibreOffice can seriously think it is a viable replacement. It can do in a pinch but I imagine the file format incompatibility issues between ms and libre are going to cost more in lost productivity than your number above.
- rpdillon 1y ago
  This is a particular brand of take strikes me as lazy. In general, each type of product is going to have some core features that almost everyone needs. And then there's going to be a long tail of features that fewer and fewer users need to make use of the tool effectively. Office tools like LibreOffice and Google Sheets strike a sort of 80/20, where they can build perhaps less than half the features of the totally complete product, but still serve a huge percentage of the market's needs (maybe 95%+, since most users aren't power users). So when I see critiques of GIMP versus Photoshop, or Linux versus Windows, or LibreOffice versus Microsoft Office, saying "oh, it has fewer features and therefore nobody can take it seriously" it's just reductive, and provides zero useful insight. It's all about the particular needs of the person or organization and how those intersect with the features of the product they're thinking of adopting.
  - yummypaint 1y ago
    I would go further and say that MS products have completely backwards priorities that lead to an overinflated feature count. What good is fancy formatting in excel if it chokes and crashes once the file hits about 20 MB? Yet despite all this emphasis on form over function over multiple decades of being a flagship product for a multibillion dollar software empire, it still produces plots that are unacceptable for publication and instill bad habits in students. I'm convinced the people who insist on "features" in these products don't actually use them, because if they did they would realize they suck and are a distraction from a poor core product. It's like people in the US who live in downtown apartments and insist on driving massive overpriced pickup trucks to commute to work and get groceries, never hauling or towing or leaving the pavement. They would be better served by commuter vehicles, but all they've ever driven is show trucks and learning new things is scary. If they did attempt to do real work, they would quickly realize the bed can't hold a standard sheet of plywood. The important thing is that they FEEL like they have capability at their fingertips, even if this is obviously an illusion to people who actually use those capabilities.
firesteelrain 1y ago
Why Linux at all in this case if it’s just like RDS? Honestly just use Azure Virtual Desktops.
belter 1y ago
Or maybe Microsoft is terrified that it will work? Then Bill Gates would not be able to do his 345th pledge of "I will give away all my money..." https://www.freeipa.org/ https://www.freeipa.org/ "Manage Linux users and client hosts in your realm from one central location with CLI, Web UI or RPC access. Enable Single Sign On authentication for all your systems, services and applications." https://www.keycloak.org/ https://www.keycloak.org/ "Open Source Identity and Access Management"
- eu_os 1y ago
  [dead]
- linotype 1y ago
  FYI Bill Gates stepped down as CEO in 2000.
  - belter 1y ago
    "Bill Gates never left" - https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-still-pulling-strings-microsoft-ai-copilot-chatgpt-2024-4?international=true&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-still-pulling-str... "...In fact, Business Insider has learned, Gates has been quietly orchestrating much of Microsoft's AI revolution from behind the scenes. Current and former executives say Gates remains intimately involved in the company's operations — advising on strategy, reviewing products, recruiting high-level executives, and nurturing Microsoft's crucial relationship with Sam Altman, the cofounder and CEO of OpenAI..."
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
kjellsbells 1y ago
> They are setting themselves up for complete failure. Maybe, but as the article states, they already acknowledge the possibility and have a backup plan in place, and, frankly, someone needs to be first. You could argue that this should not happen on the taxpayers' watch at this department. Yes, maybe some national or EU-level body should actually do the R&D to solve the structural issues around large scale Linux usage so that everyone can benefit. But for now this seems like a reasonable approach for a pretty small organization and a good learning step.
henriquenunez 1y ago
I agree that the planning does not consider a lot of aspects, but this is not the reason to surrender for big tech. We need more experts and a more sensible plan indeed, that considers the infrastructure, authentication, and so on.
croes 1y ago
Sorry but if you work with Word you can’t complain about a loss of productivity. People are just accustomed to pain of working with Word. The change to LibreOffice is way smaller than MSs switch to Ribbon menus
- v5v3 1y ago
  Yes
2Gkashmiri 1y ago
Why not rework auth? Why are you stuck on azure AD?
udev4096 1y ago
Linux desktop has terrible security model. Unless they intend to spend significant amount of time hardening the base distro, which also comes with it's own caveats. Windows, for all it's problems, is still a better choice for an enterprise environment
- trelane 1y ago
  The companies falling to malware and extortion/ransomware would seem to indicate otherwise
  - udev4096 1y ago
    What? That is really stupid way to think you're better off using Linux Desktop. Plenty of modern malware versions target pretty much every OS, from windows to mac
    - trelane 1y ago
      I disagree
      - udev4096 1y ago
        Your opinion has nothing to do with it. Research shows it's true
        trelane 1y ago
        Man, amazing what all "research" can do these days
        udev4096 1y ago
        Maybe try asking actual security researchers. There are plenty of them in mastodon or matrix
the__alchemist 1y ago
What required software will be rendered rendered incompatible after switching to Linux and Libre Office? Perhaps the crisis will be a shot across the bow at how IT systems almost-universally make computing a bad experience. Technical software like SolidWorks sometimes has OS-restrictions, but most of what I can think of that would be useful for school is, or should be OS-agnostic. I suspect that some of the software devs here, especially at small companies, may be insulated from the horror that is government and enterprise computer networks. If that stuff breaks, this will be an improvement for users as long as they can get internet. I suspect I am looking at this through a mix of optimism and naivite. Or colored by my own experiences.
- Suppafly 1y ago
  >I suspect I am looking at this through a mix of optimism and naivite. For sure.
jaimsam 1y ago
[dead]
freeone3000 1y ago
Entra (prev AAD) can be replaced by literally any other OAuth provider for SSO - shibboleth is an on-prem option. Traditional AD is harder to replace, but OpenShift’s IdP has an AD server mode that is capable of many use-cases; the cases it doesn’t do are GPO, Windows Update forcing, and other stuff no longer relevant on linux. Are they moving away from Exchange Server? I’d hope so, MTAs are a dime a dozen in linux land. There’s a dozen homegrown alternatives for calendar + mail, from ProtonMail to running Exim + caldav. The rentier companies may have “extended” the open source backing, but you’re not missing much except marketing.
cmilton 1y ago
I have a related experience. Our project was moving from Office 365 to Google Workspace. Lot's of Windows PCs replaced with Chromebooks. Over a year after completion, many users still have Excel and we do lots more app virtualization. I will say the biggest hurdle that still remains today, users accepting and adjusting to change. The migration also exposed lots of unknown user-created processes that no longer worked as usual, making it difficult for them to transition. Overall, most users made the necessary adjustments, did the training provided, and are excelling. There's always that subset that can't, or maybe won't.
- nradov 1y ago
  If those users have to work with large spreadsheets then Google Workspace is simply nonfunctional. I've tried to use Google Sheets but it hangs and never finishes recalculations that Excel completes in seconds.
  - cmilton 1y ago
    Absolutely have run into that. In those instances they keep excel, or we move that data to a different platform for consumption.
heraldgeezer 1y ago
This. Didn't Denmark try this before and fail? Didn't some German town do this and went back? It's also file compatibility. But yes, the big thing is AD. AD has been out since 2000 and was/is the standard. If you have/had AD and Group policy you move to AAD and Intune for cloud. There is no competitor to this. Zero.
- ahartmetz 1y ago
  Munich tried this, then MS moved its German office to Munich.
trueismywork 1y ago
There are so many better ways to do this right. But they don't make big news.

decide1000 1y ago

I hope all employees will use their experience to make a success of this project. Switching to Linux and ditching Micro$oft should be priority of each European country.

mrweasel 1y ago
I hope so too, but I fear that the implementation is rushed and won't yield the positive results it could have.
- eu_os 1y ago
  That's what the EU OS project is also about! https://eu-os.eu https://eu-os.eu
  - svelle 1y ago
    Curious why it's based on Distros primarily backed by US-based companies and not something like SUSE?
  - nickserv 1y ago
    I could get behind this and contribute if it didn't use a US corporate distro as a base. Ideally it should be something like Nix: non-profit foundation headquartered in the Netherlands. SUSE could work too.
  - emptysongglass 1y ago
    As many, many in your issue tracker have commented, you should not be building on Fedora as a base.

s1mplicissimus 1y ago

> They'll just force the students out of the relatively protected Google Workspace for Students, into the "real" Google/Gmail ecosystems where they are less protected against data mining What? This sounds like there is an observable way of telling that there's different levels of data mining going on in these two spaces, mind sharing the evidence?

mrweasel 1y ago
There is no data mining/profiling in Googles educational offering (also no ads, which there is in regular Gmail): > Google Workspace for Education Core Services (like Gmail, Google Calendar, Classroom, and more) have no ads, and student information in Core Services is never used to create profiles for ad targeting, or sold to third parties.[1] 1) https://edu.google.com/intl/ALL_us/our-values/privacy-security/frequently-asked-questions/ https://edu.google.com/intl/ALL_us/our-values/privacy-securi...
- b112 1y ago
  Makes sense. Get them used to using Google services, or else someone else will step in and do it. Same reason Microsoft used to give all sorts of free licenses to students.

skinkestek 1y ago

I'm currently working at a large public institution in Norway. Half the team runs Linux, and the only real constraint is using Edge for SSO. (Firefox works too - you just have to actually log in like it's 2008.) Honestly, everything else runs smoother than what my Windows-using teammates are dealing with.

thyristan 1y ago
That is probably just a setting missing from your Firefox profile that allows your company Kerberos realm/domain. If your institution hasn't locked down your Firefox config, you can fix this yourself: https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_linux/5/html/deployment_guide/sso-config-firefox https://docs.redhat.com/en/documentation/red_hat_enterprise_...
- rcarmo 1y ago
  It’s really not. Edge bundles a number of authentication libraries with the Linux version that enable things like remote passkey support.
  - vaylian 1y ago
    What is "remote passkey support"? I am familiar with passkeys (both resident and non-resident). But I haven't heard of remote passkeys yet.
    - thyristan 1y ago
      I guess maybe passkeys over some kind of USB/RDP redirection. But searching the internet doesn't yield any useful results. Or maybe something new and proprietary like all those incompatible passkey implementations out there...
    - rcarmo 1y ago
      Bluetooth binding to your mobile device, which then handles MFA with biometrics.

o_m 1y ago

I see this as a win. It will hopefully prune the incompetent managers/leaders and all the other incompetent tech workers that don't understand there is a world outside of the Microsoft/Google ecosystem.

freehorse 1y ago
I want to believe that it is not actual incompetence (and nobody will get pruned) but rather laziness/habit/lack of motivation. I have been in a big org where any issues related to how non-windows systems were integrated were, frustratingly, ignored, even if those systems were supposed to be supported and offered as choices (and indeed chosen by many employees). The IT people working on the servers did not care because in windows everything was working fine, and other departments did not have the actual tools to solve anything. They were asking us if we had any spare computer around they could borrow to test things ffs. I hope such changes bring at least the necessary motivation to engage with such issues seriously.

jve 1y ago

> Are these Linux machines going to authenticate against the Azure Active Directory... Are they using Intune, if so what's the replacement strategy where? This comes up all the time when we talk about Linux in corporate deployment. As I have only experience in MS word regarding governance, let me ask this: - Is there really no tools for Linux world that allows managing loads of Linux machines in an easy manner as it is in MS word (applying GPO policies)? A tool that can be easily set up and managed and doesn't have to always resort to scripting? - If there is, why people are not using them? I'm kind of aware some things are that allow managing Linux machines via Windows AD GPO, but that depends on MS domain there. Seems like a ripe for a startup to provide open source tool(s) with, say, paid support for the enterprises.

powgpu 1y ago
well for server is nix, but not sure about desktop.
- ChocolateGod 1y ago
  I'd say using Nix is bordering on using scripting. Someone still has to write the method that extracts your Nix configuration into a file.
fock 1y ago
and then most of the places I know happily allow employees admin access for "just that piece of software they need" and simultaneously push for "zero-trust". There's no point in it at all and you can just as well use saltstack to rollout apparmor-policies on your locked-down linux (and suddenly the same people wanting GPOs tell you that linux is untenable because of usage restrictions)
ChocolateGod 1y ago
> - Is there really no tools for Linux world that allows managing loads of Linux machines in an easy manner as it is in MS word (applying GPO policies)? A tool that can be easily set up and managed and doesn't have to always resort to scripting? Nope, there's no unification in configuration formats (yml, ini etc), locations (/var, /etc, /usr, /opt/etc) or registries (dconf, gconf). Yes, standards exist, but they are rarely followed to the letter.

fock 1y ago

yesterday: I saw the weird CVE for M365 which "exploits" some LLM through messaging embedded in emails. today: got a very long email, wanted to search for our department in it. Outlook: "Search is a deprecated feature". Despite all the "but you can't extrapolate to a large org from personal experiences"-FUD around, I think for most orgs (especially governments which are generally far behind on processes) it would be easy to switch from a feature-perspective. The problem is the army of employees and contractors who are very happy to defend Microsoft for keeping their non-automated thiefdoms (such is non-cloud AD administration at most places I extrapolate ....). There is hardly anyone there to implement the necessary processes and rather than to send out their underlings to FOSDEM, leadership is happy to get an invite by Microsoft (or a cloud-provider...) to an "innovation-summit" instead.

tonyedgecombe 1y ago
I was watching my wife navigate Outlook the other day, I can't believe how bad it's got since I last used it. It was completely unresponsive on brand new hardware. The UI was awful.
- datadrivenangel 1y ago
  Outlook has gotten so terrible that the web version is better these days...
- TheNewsIsHere 1y ago
  Outlook used to be one of the best email clients available. Now it’s essentially the worst imaginable. We just renewed our 365 licenses at my company for one more year. I’ve been mentally sketching out an exit strategy. I inventoried what we use in 365 and Azure, and there’s not a single thing we can’t replace with an alternative we run or a different provider that’s a bit less hostile to third party ecosystems/standards/etc.
  - ImJamal 1y ago
    Have you worked out the cost differences?

IceDane 1y ago

It's also just absurd in general since no one who has used LibreOffice can seriously think it is a viable replacement. It can do in a pinch but I imagine the file format incompatibility issues between ms and libre are going to cost more in lost productivity than your number above.

rpdillon 1y ago
This is a particular brand of take strikes me as lazy. In general, each type of product is going to have some core features that almost everyone needs. And then there's going to be a long tail of features that fewer and fewer users need to make use of the tool effectively. Office tools like LibreOffice and Google Sheets strike a sort of 80/20, where they can build perhaps less than half the features of the totally complete product, but still serve a huge percentage of the market's needs (maybe 95%+, since most users aren't power users). So when I see critiques of GIMP versus Photoshop, or Linux versus Windows, or LibreOffice versus Microsoft Office, saying "oh, it has fewer features and therefore nobody can take it seriously" it's just reductive, and provides zero useful insight. It's all about the particular needs of the person or organization and how those intersect with the features of the product they're thinking of adopting.
- yummypaint 1y ago
  I would go further and say that MS products have completely backwards priorities that lead to an overinflated feature count. What good is fancy formatting in excel if it chokes and crashes once the file hits about 20 MB? Yet despite all this emphasis on form over function over multiple decades of being a flagship product for a multibillion dollar software empire, it still produces plots that are unacceptable for publication and instill bad habits in students. I'm convinced the people who insist on "features" in these products don't actually use them, because if they did they would realize they suck and are a distraction from a poor core product. It's like people in the US who live in downtown apartments and insist on driving massive overpriced pickup trucks to commute to work and get groceries, never hauling or towing or leaving the pavement. They would be better served by commuter vehicles, but all they've ever driven is show trucks and learning new things is scary. If they did attempt to do real work, they would quickly realize the bed can't hold a standard sheet of plywood. The important thing is that they FEEL like they have capability at their fingertips, even if this is obviously an illusion to people who actually use those capabilities.

firesteelrain 1y ago

Why Linux at all in this case if it’s just like RDS? Honestly just use Azure Virtual Desktops.

belter 1y ago

Or maybe Microsoft is terrified that it will work? Then Bill Gates would not be able to do his 345th pledge of "I will give away all my money..." https://www.freeipa.org/ https://www.freeipa.org/ "Manage Linux users and client hosts in your realm from one central location with CLI, Web UI or RPC access. Enable Single Sign On authentication for all your systems, services and applications." https://www.keycloak.org/ https://www.keycloak.org/ "Open Source Identity and Access Management"

eu_os 1y ago
[dead]
linotype 1y ago
FYI Bill Gates stepped down as CEO in 2000.
- belter 1y ago
  "Bill Gates never left" - https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-still-pulling-strings-microsoft-ai-copilot-chatgpt-2024-4?international=true&r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-still-pulling-str... "...In fact, Business Insider has learned, Gates has been quietly orchestrating much of Microsoft's AI revolution from behind the scenes. Current and former executives say Gates remains intimately involved in the company's operations — advising on strategy, reviewing products, recruiting high-level executives, and nurturing Microsoft's crucial relationship with Sam Altman, the cofounder and CEO of OpenAI..."
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

kjellsbells 1y ago

> They are setting themselves up for complete failure. Maybe, but as the article states, they already acknowledge the possibility and have a backup plan in place, and, frankly, someone needs to be first. You could argue that this should not happen on the taxpayers' watch at this department. Yes, maybe some national or EU-level body should actually do the R&D to solve the structural issues around large scale Linux usage so that everyone can benefit. But for now this seems like a reasonable approach for a pretty small organization and a good learning step.

henriquenunez 1y ago

I agree that the planning does not consider a lot of aspects, but this is not the reason to surrender for big tech. We need more experts and a more sensible plan indeed, that considers the infrastructure, authentication, and so on.

croes 1y ago

Sorry but if you work with Word you can’t complain about a loss of productivity. People are just accustomed to pain of working with Word. The change to LibreOffice is way smaller than MSs switch to Ribbon menus

v5v3 1y ago
Yes

2Gkashmiri 1y ago

Why not rework auth? Why are you stuck on azure AD?

udev4096 1y ago

Linux desktop has terrible security model. Unless they intend to spend significant amount of time hardening the base distro, which also comes with it's own caveats. Windows, for all it's problems, is still a better choice for an enterprise environment

trelane 1y ago
The companies falling to malware and extortion/ransomware would seem to indicate otherwise
- udev4096 1y ago
  What? That is really stupid way to think you're better off using Linux Desktop. Plenty of modern malware versions target pretty much every OS, from windows to mac
  - trelane 1y ago
    I disagree
    - udev4096 1y ago
      Your opinion has nothing to do with it. Research shows it's true
      - trelane 1y ago
        Man, amazing what all "research" can do these days
        udev4096 1y ago
        Maybe try asking actual security researchers. There are plenty of them in mastodon or matrix

the__alchemist 1y ago

What required software will be rendered rendered incompatible after switching to Linux and Libre Office? Perhaps the crisis will be a shot across the bow at how IT systems almost-universally make computing a bad experience. Technical software like SolidWorks sometimes has OS-restrictions, but most of what I can think of that would be useful for school is, or should be OS-agnostic. I suspect that some of the software devs here, especially at small companies, may be insulated from the horror that is government and enterprise computer networks. If that stuff breaks, this will be an improvement for users as long as they can get internet. I suspect I am looking at this through a mix of optimism and naivite. Or colored by my own experiences.

Suppafly 1y ago
>I suspect I am looking at this through a mix of optimism and naivite. For sure.

jaimsam 1y ago

[dead]

freeone3000 1y ago

Entra (prev AAD) can be replaced by literally any other OAuth provider for SSO - shibboleth is an on-prem option. Traditional AD is harder to replace, but OpenShift’s IdP has an AD server mode that is capable of many use-cases; the cases it doesn’t do are GPO, Windows Update forcing, and other stuff no longer relevant on linux. Are they moving away from Exchange Server? I’d hope so, MTAs are a dime a dozen in linux land. There’s a dozen homegrown alternatives for calendar + mail, from ProtonMail to running Exim + caldav. The rentier companies may have “extended” the open source backing, but you’re not missing much except marketing.

cmilton 1y ago

I have a related experience. Our project was moving from Office 365 to Google Workspace. Lot's of Windows PCs replaced with Chromebooks. Over a year after completion, many users still have Excel and we do lots more app virtualization. I will say the biggest hurdle that still remains today, users accepting and adjusting to change. The migration also exposed lots of unknown user-created processes that no longer worked as usual, making it difficult for them to transition. Overall, most users made the necessary adjustments, did the training provided, and are excelling. There's always that subset that can't, or maybe won't.

nradov 1y ago
If those users have to work with large spreadsheets then Google Workspace is simply nonfunctional. I've tried to use Google Sheets but it hangs and never finishes recalculations that Excel completes in seconds.
- cmilton 1y ago
  Absolutely have run into that. In those instances they keep excel, or we move that data to a different platform for consumption.

heraldgeezer 1y ago

This. Didn't Denmark try this before and fail? Didn't some German town do this and went back? It's also file compatibility. But yes, the big thing is AD. AD has been out since 2000 and was/is the standard. If you have/had AD and Group policy you move to AAD and Intune for cloud. There is no competitor to this. Zero.

ahartmetz 1y ago
Munich tried this, then MS moved its German office to Munich.

trueismywork 1y ago

There are so many better ways to do this right. But they don't make big news.