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If you look at Mistral investors[0], you will quickly understand that Mistral is far from being European. My understanding is it is mainly owned by US companies

If you look at Mistral investors[0], you will quickly understand that Mistral is far from being European. My understanding is it is mainly owned by US companies with a few other companies from EU and other places in the world. [0] https://tracxn.com/d/companies/mistral-ai/__SLZq7rzxLYqqA97jtPwO09jLDeb76RVJVb306OhciWU/funding-and-investors https://tracxn.com/d/companies/mistral-ai/__SLZq7rzxLYqqA97j... (edited for typo)

pdabbadabba 1y ago
For the purposes of GP's comment, I think the nationalities of the people actually running the company and doing the work are more relevant than who has invested.
- derektank 1y ago
  And, perhaps most relevantly, the regulatory environment the people are working in. French people working in America are probably more productive than French people working in France (if for no other reason because they probably work more hours in America than France).
  - vasco 1y ago
    Most measures of productivity have "hours worked" in the denominator so that can't be right.
    - underdeserver 1y ago
      If I work 1000 hours and you work 2000 hours in the same timeframe, but you outcompeted me and created 3x value, you are 1.5 times more productive. There's a numerator too.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - vasco 1y ago
        How does the same exact person get more productive? You forgot the example I replied to? The only thing that changed were hours worked. In your example you change it to less hours worked with more output. You made it circular.
        underdeserver 1y ago
        You can be more productive just because you're faster. Magistral is amazingly impressive compared to ChatGPT 3.5. If it had come out two years ago we'd be saying Mistral is the clear leader. But it came out now. Not saying they worked fewer hours, just that speed matters, and in some cases, up to a limit, working more hours gets your work done faster.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 1y ago
    Are we sure more time butt in office equates to more productivity?
    - meta_ai_x 1y ago
      Yes, especially in cutting edge research areas where other high functioning people with high energy isarelso there. You can write your in-house CRUD app in your basement or your office and it doesn't matter. The vast majority of HN crowd and general social/mainstream media don't make the difference between these two scenarios
    - 1propionyl 1y ago
      Yes, specifically when it comes to open-ended research or development, collocation is non-negotiable. There are greater than linear benefits in creativity of approach, agility in adapting to new intermediate discoveries, etc that you get by putting a number of talented people who get along in the same space who form a community of practice. Remote work and flattening communication down to what digital media (Slack, Zoom, etc) afford strangle the beneficial network effects.
      - throwaway0123_5 1y ago
        I think they were talking about total time spent working rather than remote vs. in-person. I've seen more than a few studies over the years showing that going from 40 to 35 or 30 hours/wk has minimal or positive impacts on productivity. Idk if that would apply to all work environments though, and I don't recall any of the studies being about research productivity specifically.
        hdjrudni 1y ago
        > I think they were talking about total time spent working rather than remote vs. in-person. I was, yes. I should have omitted the "in office" part but I was referencing the "work more hours in America than France"
      - distortionfield 1y ago
  - whiplash451 1y ago
    > they probably work more hours in America than France Not sure that's even true. Mistral is known to be a really hard-working place
    - gwervc 1y ago
      I'm pretty sure there is way less regulations in the US in respect to France where going over the legal 35h/week requires additional capital and legal paperwork.
      - retinaros 1y ago
        No one works 35hours in software jobs in france except maybe government. Overtime is also not compensated (they give some days off that is it.)
        psalaun 1y ago
        Even in government; I've worked 50+ hours weeks working for the healthcare branch of the providence state, with a classic 39h/w contract. No compensation of any sort, despite having timesheets. There are a lot of myths about French worker. Our lifelong worked hours is not exceptional; our productivity is also not exceptional.
        greenavocado 1y ago
        Pointless suffering. Report violations to the CSE, Médecin du Travail, and Inspection du Travail.
        psalaun 1y ago
        It was a choice, I loved my job there. I had more exciting projects than most of my friends in the private sector!
        Saline9515 1y ago
        Excellent way to get blacklisted and never work for the State again if you're a contractor, or end up in a low impact, boring job if you're a career worker.
  - retinaros 1y ago
    Most of french people in engineering jobs in France are working late even tho overtime is never paid.
    - Disposal8433 1y ago
      In the USA they have the famous 9 to 5. Most developers' jobs in France are "9 to 6 with 2 hours to eat in the middle and unpaid overtime," so I would say both countries are equivalent.
      - psalaun 1y ago
        In parisian startups it's more 9 to 7 with 30 min lunch breaks.
      - pdabbadabba 1y ago
        I'm not here to debate which country works harder. Among other things, I'm not at all convinced that it's good for a society for people to be so devoted to their jobs. But it's worth pointing out that the U.S.'s famous 9-to-5 is completely inapplicable to any sort of high-demand job. For many people in a demanding profession like tech, a 9-to-5 job would be an absolute (and often unattainable) dream. Where I live (Washington, D.C.) people who want a 9-to-5 will generally leave industry altogether and work for the government. (And even there, a true 9-to-5 can be elusive.)
  - chairmansteve 1y ago
    Spoken like a guy who's never been to France. Classic drive by internet trope. Maybe try a little harder, have an informed opinion about something.
  - epolanski 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      >You think that European founders and researchers are like "nah, you know what, we're European, we're not ambitious, we don't want to make money, to hell with equity"? That's the copium HN thinks. European workers bust their asses for glory not for money.
      - tomhow 1y ago
        We're getting complaints about several of your recent comments, and this is a prime example of the kind of comment that is not right for HN. It takes a swipe at the whole HN community (on the false pretence that the HN audience is concentrated via country/region or mindset), and makes a moral judgement based on region/culture. We've asked you several times to stop commenting in this inflammatory style on HN. We don't want to ban you, as we want HN to be open to a broad range of views and discussion styles, but if you keep commenting in ways that break the guidelines and draw valid complaints from other community members, a ban will be the next step we'll have to take. If you want HN to be a good place to engage in interesting discussions, please do your part to make it better not worse.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
        FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        Where do I complain about unfair and double standard moderation practices that are left unmoderated and even praised and upvoted? See this guy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44254864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44254864 And there's countless like him that get away with it. You'll then argue that there's no resources to moderate everything on HN, which while true, it's also more than sus how there seems to always be enough resources to moderate conservative viewpoints but rarely attacks from liberals that break the same rules, which is a blatant double standard that HN moderation is ignoring. You talk the talk about HN being to quote you "open to a broad range of views and discussion styles" but what you actually support is a suppression of free speech and a one sided view of things that can only exist in a biased heavily moderated echo chamber, and not in the free market place of ideas you claim to support.
kergonath 1y ago
It’s a French company, subject to French laws and European regulations. That’s what matters, from a user point of view.

pdabbadabba 1y ago

For the purposes of GP's comment, I think the nationalities of the people actually running the company and doing the work are more relevant than who has invested.

derektank 1y ago
And, perhaps most relevantly, the regulatory environment the people are working in. French people working in America are probably more productive than French people working in France (if for no other reason because they probably work more hours in America than France).
- vasco 1y ago
  Most measures of productivity have "hours worked" in the denominator so that can't be right.
  - underdeserver 1y ago
    If I work 1000 hours and you work 2000 hours in the same timeframe, but you outcompeted me and created 3x value, you are 1.5 times more productive. There's a numerator too.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - vasco 1y ago
      How does the same exact person get more productive? You forgot the example I replied to? The only thing that changed were hours worked. In your example you change it to less hours worked with more output. You made it circular.
      - underdeserver 1y ago
        You can be more productive just because you're faster. Magistral is amazingly impressive compared to ChatGPT 3.5. If it had come out two years ago we'd be saying Mistral is the clear leader. But it came out now. Not saying they worked fewer hours, just that speed matters, and in some cases, up to a limit, working more hours gets your work done faster.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 1y ago
  Are we sure more time butt in office equates to more productivity?
  - meta_ai_x 1y ago
    Yes, especially in cutting edge research areas where other high functioning people with high energy isarelso there. You can write your in-house CRUD app in your basement or your office and it doesn't matter. The vast majority of HN crowd and general social/mainstream media don't make the difference between these two scenarios
  - 1propionyl 1y ago
    Yes, specifically when it comes to open-ended research or development, collocation is non-negotiable. There are greater than linear benefits in creativity of approach, agility in adapting to new intermediate discoveries, etc that you get by putting a number of talented people who get along in the same space who form a community of practice. Remote work and flattening communication down to what digital media (Slack, Zoom, etc) afford strangle the beneficial network effects.
    - throwaway0123_5 1y ago
      I think they were talking about total time spent working rather than remote vs. in-person. I've seen more than a few studies over the years showing that going from 40 to 35 or 30 hours/wk has minimal or positive impacts on productivity. Idk if that would apply to all work environments though, and I don't recall any of the studies being about research productivity specifically.
      - hdjrudni 1y ago
        > I think they were talking about total time spent working rather than remote vs. in-person. I was, yes. I should have omitted the "in office" part but I was referencing the "work more hours in America than France"
    - distortionfield 1y ago
- whiplash451 1y ago
  > they probably work more hours in America than France Not sure that's even true. Mistral is known to be a really hard-working place
  - gwervc 1y ago
    I'm pretty sure there is way less regulations in the US in respect to France where going over the legal 35h/week requires additional capital and legal paperwork.
    - retinaros 1y ago
      No one works 35hours in software jobs in france except maybe government. Overtime is also not compensated (they give some days off that is it.)
      - psalaun 1y ago
        Even in government; I've worked 50+ hours weeks working for the healthcare branch of the providence state, with a classic 39h/w contract. No compensation of any sort, despite having timesheets. There are a lot of myths about French worker. Our lifelong worked hours is not exceptional; our productivity is also not exceptional.
        greenavocado 1y ago
        Pointless suffering. Report violations to the CSE, Médecin du Travail, and Inspection du Travail.
        psalaun 1y ago
        It was a choice, I loved my job there. I had more exciting projects than most of my friends in the private sector!
        Saline9515 1y ago
        Excellent way to get blacklisted and never work for the State again if you're a contractor, or end up in a low impact, boring job if you're a career worker.
- retinaros 1y ago
  Most of french people in engineering jobs in France are working late even tho overtime is never paid.
  - Disposal8433 1y ago
    In the USA they have the famous 9 to 5. Most developers' jobs in France are "9 to 6 with 2 hours to eat in the middle and unpaid overtime," so I would say both countries are equivalent.
    - psalaun 1y ago
      In parisian startups it's more 9 to 7 with 30 min lunch breaks.
    - pdabbadabba 1y ago
      I'm not here to debate which country works harder. Among other things, I'm not at all convinced that it's good for a society for people to be so devoted to their jobs. But it's worth pointing out that the U.S.'s famous 9-to-5 is completely inapplicable to any sort of high-demand job. For many people in a demanding profession like tech, a 9-to-5 job would be an absolute (and often unattainable) dream. Where I live (Washington, D.C.) people who want a 9-to-5 will generally leave industry altogether and work for the government. (And even there, a true 9-to-5 can be elusive.)
- chairmansteve 1y ago
  Spoken like a guy who's never been to France. Classic drive by internet trope. Maybe try a little harder, have an informed opinion about something.
- epolanski 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    >You think that European founders and researchers are like "nah, you know what, we're European, we're not ambitious, we don't want to make money, to hell with equity"? That's the copium HN thinks. European workers bust their asses for glory not for money.
    - tomhow 1y ago
      We're getting complaints about several of your recent comments, and this is a prime example of the kind of comment that is not right for HN. It takes a swipe at the whole HN community (on the false pretence that the HN audience is concentrated via country/region or mindset), and makes a moral judgement based on region/culture. We've asked you several times to stop commenting in this inflammatory style on HN. We don't want to ban you, as we want HN to be open to a broad range of views and discussion styles, but if you keep commenting in ways that break the guidelines and draw valid complaints from other community members, a ban will be the next step we'll have to take. If you want HN to be a good place to engage in interesting discussions, please do your part to make it better not worse.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        Where do I complain about unfair and double standard moderation practices that are left unmoderated and even praised and upvoted? See this guy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44254864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44254864 And there's countless like him that get away with it. You'll then argue that there's no resources to moderate everything on HN, which while true, it's also more than sus how there seems to always be enough resources to moderate conservative viewpoints but rarely attacks from liberals that break the same rules, which is a blatant double standard that HN moderation is ignoring. You talk the talk about HN being to quote you "open to a broad range of views and discussion styles" but what you actually support is a suppression of free speech and a one sided view of things that can only exist in a biased heavily moderated echo chamber, and not in the free market place of ideas you claim to support.

kergonath 1y ago

It’s a French company, subject to French laws and European regulations. That’s what matters, from a user point of view.