9 ms·

Perceived enemy? Even the most liberal of cities touting themselves as “sanctuary cities” had to pivot and declare they simply cannot handle the influx. 12mill

Perceived enemy? Even the most liberal of cities touting themselves as “sanctuary cities” had to pivot and declare they simply cannot handle the influx. 12million immigrants came into the country during the Biden administration. This type of load on the system does not go unnoticed. NYC for example was drastically transformed. Why do you think it’s just a “perceived” problem?

kstrauser 1y ago
That’s a lie. The actual number was closer to 4 million. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/united-states/net-migration https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/uni...
- robomartin 1y ago
  That page is a joke. Ignoring reality does not manufacture a new reality. Four million might be the legal migration count, hard to say. We had caravans of tens of thousands of people constantly streaming into the US for four years. The video evidence is out there for everyone to see. News outlets that did not engage in hiding reality and promoting falsehoods had crews at the border every day for four years collecting video evidence of what was going on. If you care about understanding the truth, go to the US Customs and Border Protection website and look around. You can also cross check with Homeland Security and other official sources. And, yes, you will find data that predates the Trump administration...so you can't blame bias. For example, if I remember correctly, there were over THREE MILLION unauthorized entries in 2024.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    Imagine how long a caravan with an extra 8 million people would be. I mean, I’ve been to a Huskers football game and seen what the exit looked like, and this would be 100x more. If such a thing were being reported by multiple reputable sources, I’d be less inclined to roll my eyes at the preposterous idea.
    - robomartin 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - V__ 1y ago
        A DHS post from 2025 is not reliable information, just reading the headline should be enough to notice that. The number of unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. has been more or less stable for the last 20 years: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-k...
        robomartin 1y ago
        > A DHS post from 2025 is not reliable information, just reading the headline should be enough to notice that. You are living in an incomprehensible fantasy my friend. Good luck.
        V__ 1y ago
        I don't need luck, just time. This administration always fails and is proven wrong at the end.
        shadowgovt 1y ago
        When the President is a known liar, and has hand-picked the secretary of the department, why should people trust the department's self-reports?
      - seadan83 1y ago
        The people chucking cinder blocks and protestors are unaffiliated. That is guilt by association, a logical fallacy. Seeing immigrants and perceiving an increased in crime, and citing that they are related is post facto rationalization fallacy. Let's see... what other logical fallacies are in here. Oh.. people emigrate and die, so the accumulation of numbers is not valid nor does that handle double counting. AFAIK a strong US economy generates around 250k jobs per month. Further, there were more jobs created under Biden than were lost during the pandemic. I'd also suggest if this all were a big deal, illegal entry ought to be elevated from a civil infraction. It is more severe in the eyes of the law to drive 25 hour than it is to overstay a visa.
  - johnnyanmac 1y ago
    > Ignoring reality does not manufacture a new reality. I wish we could tell that to Trump. >We had caravans of tens of thousands of people constantly streaming into the US for four years. T Okay, and Biden deported more people than Trump's first term. Is that fact a joke too? >go to the US Customs and Border Protection website and look around. Okay, what am I looking for? The most recent news update was June 5th about building a wall in Arizona. I thought that 2016 narrative was over? >if I remember correctly, there were over THREE MILLION unauthorized entries in 2024. And >In Fiscal Year (FY) 2024, there were 271,484 individuals removed from the US by ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement). This number represents an increase of nearly 90% compared to the previous fiscal year. This data includes removals by ICE's Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO). Why are we acting like Biden did nothing?
    - robomartin 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - mindslight 1y ago
        And your talking points thrown out like some kind of analysis-ending gotcha have shielded you from seeing the truth. It matters much less that Biden was mentally unfit because responsibilities were delegated to advisors and a professional bureaucracy. That was the group project dynamic of our system of government that we took for granted. Now that bureaucracy has been smashed in favor of autocracy, and we're suffering the other demented guy - not merely as a figurehead, but getting straight raw dogged by his rotting brain as he destroys what's left of our distributed economy with a national sales tax, orders the American military to attack American cities, and preps for a uuuuge North Korean style parade. As Americans, we have a right to protest. That right does not go away when other people damage property, government property especially. Remember January 6, where there weren't even real ideals at stake but just a crowd riled up on fake news campaign propaganda that turned out to be utterly false? When things do get out of hand, which is far beyond a few destroyed government vehicles, it is up to the local police forces to set the balance between restoring order and that still existing first amendment right to protest. Despite LAPD having been doing this just fine, Trump is illegally escalating the situation to look strong for the useful idiots still following him, to distract from his hissy fit with Musk, and most importantly to take the focus off his Big Ugly Deficit Spending Inflation Bill poised to bankrupt our country. It seems like you need to have the realization that just because you've caught one tribe's media lying does not mean that you've found pure truth.
- atombender 1y ago
  The New York Times put it at about 2.4m/year, or around 10m total: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/11/briefing/us-immigration-surge.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/11/briefing/us-immigration-s....
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    That's gross immigration, not net. People leave, too. The government's numbers show the net being approximately +1M/year.
    - atombender 1y ago
      Did you actually read the article? > Annual net migration — the number of people coming to the country minus the number leaving — averaged 2.4 million people from 2021 to 2023, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Total net migration during the Biden administration is likely to exceed eight million people.
- matt-attack 1y ago
  Why try to minimize it or be defensive about the figure? The Biden administration is proud the number is high. Do you want the number high or low? From ChatGPT: > So, while 10–11 million CBP encounters is the most solid official figure, when you add gotaways, overstays, and parole entries, the total number of people likely entering without full authorization could reasonably be around 15–17 million during the Biden presidency.
vel0city 1y ago
> declare they simply cannot handle the influx They cannot handle it with the resources being given. This is true for the red states like Texas and what not, the social services we do have struggle to handle the load. But we're choosing to let these systems struggle. We could solve it if we chose to do so. In 2020 our population was ~330 million people. Even if 12 million people immigrated to the United States, that's an influx of 3.6%. In reality its probably closer to 4 or so million, so really more like 1.2%. We're supposedly the wealthiest country on the planet with so much opportunity and freedom and yet we can't handle adding far less than 5% of the population as migrants in five years? If that's the case, we're probably the poorest country on the planet, not the wealthiest.
- mzmzmzm 1y ago
  And that's a population of millions admittedly including many minors and major barriers to thriving, but overall far fewer elderly or disabled people than the general population. Boosting immigration is only an economic drag if you structure the asylum/immigration process to prevent people from working, which we do now seemingly to punish communities that accept immigrants.
- jjk7 1y ago
  They are concentrated in major cities not evenly distributed across all of the US.
  - vel0city 1y ago
    This does nothing to change the facts of my statement. And even then, we could choose to do something about that. We could do more to help people settle all across the US and be well supported to succeed. But we don't. So instead, we have people crowd the areas where we turn a blind eye to hiring illegal labor and have the social impacts concentrated there and then refuse to actually do anything to help those social costs. But these are all things we choose to do. We could choose to do something else.
    - jjk7 1y ago
righthand 1y ago
We had no problem in NY handling the influx. In fact we handled it so well that it angered the Republicans even more because they still gave immigration money to Texas AND had to give more money to the sanctuary cities. A problem they created and reaped the effects. There were not 12 million immigrants entering during the Biden administration. Please provide balanced proof. The only people in NY that claimed we couldn’t handle it were the Mayor who was trying to get out of his blatant corruption by appealing to Trump.
- trust_bt_verify 1y ago
  Same with Chicago. They handled it from what I heard, why did Texas struggle so even with the extra federal dollars they get?
  - righthand 1y ago
    Texas didn’t struggle. They just created the appearance that it was an influx by immediately putting people on buses and shipped across the country then covering it in the media as if a bunch of buses driving somewhere means the border is under surge. Funny how that seems to have ended magically as soon as Trump was elected.
    - vel0city 1y ago
      As a resident of Texas, yes we are struggling with migration. I'm not trying to paint migration in a negative light, but we do need to do more in terms of ESL programs and better funding schooling and similar programs in migrant-heavy areas. It's hard to have well performing schools in areas where it's hard to hire a teacher that speaks the language of the children, our Medicaid programs are struggling to provide healthcare, etc. We all point to Texas's education department as a laughing stock of results. But we expect Texas to bear a massive part of the burden of low income non-English migrants while using the same measuring stick to compare. And we act like this is fair. And don't get me wrong, Texas' legislature is complicit for the failure! We should all do more to support these communities. I do agree, it's largely a self inflicted problem. But things need to change to properly deal with the increase in those relying on public programs. They're underfunded, understaffed, and under supplied. We're not setting people up for success, and it shows.
lazyeye 1y ago
12 million is equivalent to the average population of 2 states. The Democrats, who love to lecture everybody about "protecting democracy", are attempting to sway voter demographics in their favor through illegal immigration. California used to be a Republican state till it was turned deep blue through immigration. And one-party states produce the worst, most incompetent politicians, who rise to the top not through the battle of ideas, ability and accountability but through political favors and backroom deals. Gavin Newsom is the perfect example of this.
- shadowgovt 1y ago
  California continues to be the largest economy in the United States (and 4th largest in the world). If they're failing, they're failing extremely well. I wonder how we get some of that failure in my part of the country?
  - lazyeye 1y ago
    They have Silicon Valley and the largest population of any US state. Gavin Newsom gets zero credit for either of these things. You only have to look at how incredibly badly prepared for and managed the palisade fires were to see the level of incompetence under Gavin Newsom. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/u-haul-california/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/u-haul-california/
    - shadowgovt 1y ago
      So you're saying a large population is correlated to a very healthy economy? Remind me again why we want to kick immigrants out?
      - lazyeye 1y ago
        No I'm not remotely saying that and I thought we were talking about Gavin Newsom? And I'm not wasting any more time with you, it's pointless.
seadan83 1y ago
Apart from statements of Mayor Adams, could you list maybe 3 examples? Trying to research this, I see examples like Denver and Chicago that have had struggles, anx did things like limit shelter stats to 72 hours. I found no examples though that were point blank: "we cannot handle this." Again, excluding mayor Adam's, perhaps you can help fill in the gaps with concrete examples and hopefully some verbatim quotes of "we cannot handle this?"
- apwell23 1y ago
  Chicago had taken measures to restrict migrant buses from dropping off migrants within the city limits so they were dropping them off in the burbs. under the guise of some nonsensical rules "we want orderly drop-offs with 24 hr advance notice and only 2 migrant busses total in 24 hrs"
  - seadan83 1y ago
    I appreciate the specifics. When you wrote "so they", I want to be sure that the 'they' refers to bus operators that were payed to drop off migrants in Chicago: "The city says buses can arrive only during daytime hours so volunteers can be available to help, but bus drivers are responding by dropping migrants off in Chicago suburbs at night." [1] The '2 buses per day' needs context. That could very well be a simple ask to not send them all at once. Further, the buses we are talking about were meant to overload the target the cities. They were sent with no notice, no coordination, just dumping a couple hundred or more people off into a random place in a random city. The ask therefore of "don't send all buses just on the same day", instead spread it out so that the volunteer resources are not overwhelmed and have a chance to work with and place everyone. I don't want to belabor this too much further, but I strongly suspect the desire for 2 buses max was a lot more about load balancing than it was rate limiting. My impression, Chicago was more like "do this orderly, we can handle it, just don't drop off a couple hundred people all at once in some random place without telling us." [1] https://www.npr.org/2024/01/06/1223287116/chicago-is-tightening-restrictions-on-buses-dropping-off-migrants-from-texas https://www.npr.org/2024/01/06/1223287116/chicago-is-tighten...
    - 1y ago

kstrauser 1y ago

That’s a lie. The actual number was closer to 4 million. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/united-states/net-migration https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/uni...

robomartin 1y ago
That page is a joke. Ignoring reality does not manufacture a new reality. Four million might be the legal migration count, hard to say. We had caravans of tens of thousands of people constantly streaming into the US for four years. The video evidence is out there for everyone to see. News outlets that did not engage in hiding reality and promoting falsehoods had crews at the border every day for four years collecting video evidence of what was going on. If you care about understanding the truth, go to the US Customs and Border Protection website and look around. You can also cross check with Homeland Security and other official sources. And, yes, you will find data that predates the Trump administration...so you can't blame bias. For example, if I remember correctly, there were over THREE MILLION unauthorized entries in 2024.
- kstrauser 1y ago
  Imagine how long a caravan with an extra 8 million people would be. I mean, I’ve been to a Huskers football game and seen what the exit looked like, and this would be 100x more. If such a thing were being reported by multiple reputable sources, I’d be less inclined to roll my eyes at the preposterous idea.
  - robomartin 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - V__ 1y ago
      A DHS post from 2025 is not reliable information, just reading the headline should be enough to notice that. The number of unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. has been more or less stable for the last 20 years: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-k...
      - robomartin 1y ago
        > A DHS post from 2025 is not reliable information, just reading the headline should be enough to notice that. You are living in an incomprehensible fantasy my friend. Good luck.
        V__ 1y ago
        I don't need luck, just time. This administration always fails and is proven wrong at the end.
        shadowgovt 1y ago
        When the President is a known liar, and has hand-picked the secretary of the department, why should people trust the department's self-reports?
    - seadan83 1y ago
      The people chucking cinder blocks and protestors are unaffiliated. That is guilt by association, a logical fallacy. Seeing immigrants and perceiving an increased in crime, and citing that they are related is post facto rationalization fallacy. Let's see... what other logical fallacies are in here. Oh.. people emigrate and die, so the accumulation of numbers is not valid nor does that handle double counting. AFAIK a strong US economy generates around 250k jobs per month. Further, there were more jobs created under Biden than were lost during the pandemic. I'd also suggest if this all were a big deal, illegal entry ought to be elevated from a civil infraction. It is more severe in the eyes of the law to drive 25 hour than it is to overstay a visa.
- johnnyanmac 1y ago
  > Ignoring reality does not manufacture a new reality. I wish we could tell that to Trump. >We had caravans of tens of thousands of people constantly streaming into the US for four years. T Okay, and Biden deported more people than Trump's first term. Is that fact a joke too? >go to the US Customs and Border Protection website and look around. Okay, what am I looking for? The most recent news update was June 5th about building a wall in Arizona. I thought that 2016 narrative was over? >if I remember correctly, there were over THREE MILLION unauthorized entries in 2024. And >In Fiscal Year (FY) 2024, there were 271,484 individuals removed from the US by ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement). This number represents an increase of nearly 90% compared to the previous fiscal year. This data includes removals by ICE's Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO). Why are we acting like Biden did nothing?
  - robomartin 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - mindslight 1y ago
      And your talking points thrown out like some kind of analysis-ending gotcha have shielded you from seeing the truth. It matters much less that Biden was mentally unfit because responsibilities were delegated to advisors and a professional bureaucracy. That was the group project dynamic of our system of government that we took for granted. Now that bureaucracy has been smashed in favor of autocracy, and we're suffering the other demented guy - not merely as a figurehead, but getting straight raw dogged by his rotting brain as he destroys what's left of our distributed economy with a national sales tax, orders the American military to attack American cities, and preps for a uuuuge North Korean style parade. As Americans, we have a right to protest. That right does not go away when other people damage property, government property especially. Remember January 6, where there weren't even real ideals at stake but just a crowd riled up on fake news campaign propaganda that turned out to be utterly false? When things do get out of hand, which is far beyond a few destroyed government vehicles, it is up to the local police forces to set the balance between restoring order and that still existing first amendment right to protest. Despite LAPD having been doing this just fine, Trump is illegally escalating the situation to look strong for the useful idiots still following him, to distract from his hissy fit with Musk, and most importantly to take the focus off his Big Ugly Deficit Spending Inflation Bill poised to bankrupt our country. It seems like you need to have the realization that just because you've caught one tribe's media lying does not mean that you've found pure truth.
atombender 1y ago
The New York Times put it at about 2.4m/year, or around 10m total: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/11/briefing/us-immigration-surge.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/11/briefing/us-immigration-s....
- kstrauser 1y ago
  That's gross immigration, not net. People leave, too. The government's numbers show the net being approximately +1M/year.
  - atombender 1y ago
    Did you actually read the article? > Annual net migration — the number of people coming to the country minus the number leaving — averaged 2.4 million people from 2021 to 2023, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Total net migration during the Biden administration is likely to exceed eight million people.
matt-attack 1y ago
Why try to minimize it or be defensive about the figure? The Biden administration is proud the number is high. Do you want the number high or low? From ChatGPT: > So, while 10–11 million CBP encounters is the most solid official figure, when you add gotaways, overstays, and parole entries, the total number of people likely entering without full authorization could reasonably be around 15–17 million during the Biden presidency.

vel0city 1y ago

> declare they simply cannot handle the influx They cannot handle it with the resources being given. This is true for the red states like Texas and what not, the social services we do have struggle to handle the load. But we're choosing to let these systems struggle. We could solve it if we chose to do so. In 2020 our population was ~330 million people. Even if 12 million people immigrated to the United States, that's an influx of 3.6%. In reality its probably closer to 4 or so million, so really more like 1.2%. We're supposedly the wealthiest country on the planet with so much opportunity and freedom and yet we can't handle adding far less than 5% of the population as migrants in five years? If that's the case, we're probably the poorest country on the planet, not the wealthiest.

mzmzmzm 1y ago
And that's a population of millions admittedly including many minors and major barriers to thriving, but overall far fewer elderly or disabled people than the general population. Boosting immigration is only an economic drag if you structure the asylum/immigration process to prevent people from working, which we do now seemingly to punish communities that accept immigrants.
jjk7 1y ago
They are concentrated in major cities not evenly distributed across all of the US.
- vel0city 1y ago
  This does nothing to change the facts of my statement. And even then, we could choose to do something about that. We could do more to help people settle all across the US and be well supported to succeed. But we don't. So instead, we have people crowd the areas where we turn a blind eye to hiring illegal labor and have the social impacts concentrated there and then refuse to actually do anything to help those social costs. But these are all things we choose to do. We could choose to do something else.
  - jjk7 1y ago

righthand 1y ago

We had no problem in NY handling the influx. In fact we handled it so well that it angered the Republicans even more because they still gave immigration money to Texas AND had to give more money to the sanctuary cities. A problem they created and reaped the effects. There were not 12 million immigrants entering during the Biden administration. Please provide balanced proof. The only people in NY that claimed we couldn’t handle it were the Mayor who was trying to get out of his blatant corruption by appealing to Trump.

trust_bt_verify 1y ago
Same with Chicago. They handled it from what I heard, why did Texas struggle so even with the extra federal dollars they get?
- righthand 1y ago
  Texas didn’t struggle. They just created the appearance that it was an influx by immediately putting people on buses and shipped across the country then covering it in the media as if a bunch of buses driving somewhere means the border is under surge. Funny how that seems to have ended magically as soon as Trump was elected.
  - vel0city 1y ago
    As a resident of Texas, yes we are struggling with migration. I'm not trying to paint migration in a negative light, but we do need to do more in terms of ESL programs and better funding schooling and similar programs in migrant-heavy areas. It's hard to have well performing schools in areas where it's hard to hire a teacher that speaks the language of the children, our Medicaid programs are struggling to provide healthcare, etc. We all point to Texas's education department as a laughing stock of results. But we expect Texas to bear a massive part of the burden of low income non-English migrants while using the same measuring stick to compare. And we act like this is fair. And don't get me wrong, Texas' legislature is complicit for the failure! We should all do more to support these communities. I do agree, it's largely a self inflicted problem. But things need to change to properly deal with the increase in those relying on public programs. They're underfunded, understaffed, and under supplied. We're not setting people up for success, and it shows.

lazyeye 1y ago

12 million is equivalent to the average population of 2 states. The Democrats, who love to lecture everybody about "protecting democracy", are attempting to sway voter demographics in their favor through illegal immigration. California used to be a Republican state till it was turned deep blue through immigration. And one-party states produce the worst, most incompetent politicians, who rise to the top not through the battle of ideas, ability and accountability but through political favors and backroom deals. Gavin Newsom is the perfect example of this.

shadowgovt 1y ago
California continues to be the largest economy in the United States (and 4th largest in the world). If they're failing, they're failing extremely well. I wonder how we get some of that failure in my part of the country?
- lazyeye 1y ago
  They have Silicon Valley and the largest population of any US state. Gavin Newsom gets zero credit for either of these things. You only have to look at how incredibly badly prepared for and managed the palisade fires were to see the level of incompetence under Gavin Newsom. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/u-haul-california/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/u-haul-california/
  - shadowgovt 1y ago
    So you're saying a large population is correlated to a very healthy economy? Remind me again why we want to kick immigrants out?
    - lazyeye 1y ago
      No I'm not remotely saying that and I thought we were talking about Gavin Newsom? And I'm not wasting any more time with you, it's pointless.

seadan83 1y ago

Apart from statements of Mayor Adams, could you list maybe 3 examples? Trying to research this, I see examples like Denver and Chicago that have had struggles, anx did things like limit shelter stats to 72 hours. I found no examples though that were point blank: "we cannot handle this." Again, excluding mayor Adam's, perhaps you can help fill in the gaps with concrete examples and hopefully some verbatim quotes of "we cannot handle this?"

apwell23 1y ago
Chicago had taken measures to restrict migrant buses from dropping off migrants within the city limits so they were dropping them off in the burbs. under the guise of some nonsensical rules "we want orderly drop-offs with 24 hr advance notice and only 2 migrant busses total in 24 hrs"
- seadan83 1y ago
  I appreciate the specifics. When you wrote "so they", I want to be sure that the 'they' refers to bus operators that were payed to drop off migrants in Chicago: "The city says buses can arrive only during daytime hours so volunteers can be available to help, but bus drivers are responding by dropping migrants off in Chicago suburbs at night." [1] The '2 buses per day' needs context. That could very well be a simple ask to not send them all at once. Further, the buses we are talking about were meant to overload the target the cities. They were sent with no notice, no coordination, just dumping a couple hundred or more people off into a random place in a random city. The ask therefore of "don't send all buses just on the same day", instead spread it out so that the volunteer resources are not overwhelmed and have a chance to work with and place everyone. I don't want to belabor this too much further, but I strongly suspect the desire for 2 buses max was a lot more about load balancing than it was rate limiting. My impression, Chicago was more like "do this orderly, we can handle it, just don't drop off a couple hundred people all at once in some random place without telling us." [1] https://www.npr.org/2024/01/06/1223287116/chicago-is-tightening-restrictions-on-buses-dropping-off-migrants-from-texas https://www.npr.org/2024/01/06/1223287116/chicago-is-tighten...
  - 1y ago