17 ms·

Because this isn't about that. This is about having a perceived enemy that only you can fight. If it wasn't immigrants (legal or illegal), it would be a differe

Because this isn't about that. This is about having a perceived enemy that only you can fight. If it wasn't immigrants (legal or illegal), it would be a different group, within or outside of your borders. It's fascism 101.

typeofhuman 1y ago
[flagged]
- Larrikin 1y ago
  That's because of racism for two hundred years that made it so there was only one gym for the kids in that area. If it's a true story. Your comment history reads like conservative talking points fabricated by someone pretending to be black or pretending to care about black people. Specifically not like a black conservative.
  - nothercastle 1y ago
    Op is describing very real cost shifting that happens. Certain corporations get large benefits from migrant workers but they are human and have to live somewhere so the cost of housing and feeding them gets shifted to adjacent communities. These adjacent communities get hit twice because migrant labor also decreases salaries for locals. People who are in the high earning buckets benefit from the cheaper wages and abundant work force for construction, landscaping maid services.
    - righthand 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - nathan_compton 1y ago
      Op should blame the people in the high earning bucket. It is ridiculous to blame the poor migrant workers in this situation - its not like they are living high on the hog. They are, by your description, victims as well, employed only because they can be treated more poorly than local people.
      - msgodel 1y ago
        Op is in fact criticizing the policy those people benefit from. Just because the migrants are used as human pawns doesn't mean the policy critique is invalid.
        nathan_compton 1y ago
        In this context, of violent enforcement against the pawns, the above bears emphasis.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
    - seadan83 1y ago
      Funny, I stayed at a hotel in a small town in Texas recently that was across the street from a construction site. The hotel owner said that since Trump was elected that occupancy was way down. Lots of the workers at the construction site were undocumented and stayed at the hotel. Since Trump's election, nothing had happened at the construction site and the hotel's future was in question. > These adjacent communities get hit twice because migrant labor also decreases salaries for locals. If the migrant labor is filling in labor gaps, then no, this is not true. Seems the evidence also disagrees: "Consistently, economists have found that an increase in immigration rates does not cause a drop in wages for U.S.-born workers" [1] Please provide evidence that your statement is true even in any instance, let alone generally true. The economic impact of migrant labor is quite real, and positive, in terms of taxes and money spent back in the community. [1]https://immigrationimpact.com/2024/07/09/immigrants-do-not-take-americans-jobs-wages/ https://immigrationimpact.com/2024/07/09/immigrants-do-not-t...
- viraptor 1y ago
  Sorry, but this is both hyperbolic and so low on details it's hard to understand the problem. Migrants, so you mean basically homeless people? Low income, so a big chunk of the problem is that minimum wage is not enough to survive without help? (That applies to everyone, not migrants) What does being black have to do with that? What do you mean the kids have nowhere else to go? There are so many kids with no after school programs or any kind. Is there actually more real context missing here?
- nothercastle 1y ago
  I think this is an example of different branches of government working against each other. The feds want them here working as invisible slaves hence the crackdown. The local government has to appease the vocal activists so they put them up in public spaces to the detriment of other uses.
- sigwinch 1y ago
  In California?
jcon321 1y ago
[flagged]
snarf21 1y ago
Yeah, the whole platform is about Othering. The greatest trick the rich ever pulled was convincing the middle class that the poor are the cause of all their problems.
- falcor84 1y ago
  I'm confused. I don't recall anyone ever saying that we need to get rid of the poor, but rather that we should try to make conditions better for everyone such that fewer people are poor. Did I miss my scheduled indoctrination message?
  - dfxm12 1y ago
    I don't recall anyone ever saying... Don't focus on words. Focus on actions. For example, the action of deploying the military on Americans does not make conditions better for us. Quite the contrary. The action of having a military parade for the president's birthday is expensive and doesn't benefit us. That money could be going to education, school lunches, Medicaid, building bridges, etc. But it isn't. it is only going to stroke the president's ego. Most of his actions, EO's, deals, bills, etc., fall into this category.
    - dotancohen 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - ty6853 1y ago
        I don't know it re-establishes order but rather teaches the populace to up the ante. While I don't condone repeating history, it is instructive to look at history. When this military-type response was done at Waco, Timothy McViegh looked at that (he was there) and took out 10x as many feds as they took out citizens. And it sparked a very long period of militia movements, etc.
        dotancohen 1y ago
sigzero 1y ago
[flagged]
matt-attack 1y ago
Perceived enemy? Even the most liberal of cities touting themselves as “sanctuary cities” had to pivot and declare they simply cannot handle the influx. 12million immigrants came into the country during the Biden administration. This type of load on the system does not go unnoticed. NYC for example was drastically transformed. Why do you think it’s just a “perceived” problem?
- kstrauser 1y ago
  That’s a lie. The actual number was closer to 4 million. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/united-states/net-migration https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/uni...
  - robomartin 1y ago
    That page is a joke. Ignoring reality does not manufacture a new reality. Four million might be the legal migration count, hard to say. We had caravans of tens of thousands of people constantly streaming into the US for four years. The video evidence is out there for everyone to see. News outlets that did not engage in hiding reality and promoting falsehoods had crews at the border every day for four years collecting video evidence of what was going on. If you care about understanding the truth, go to the US Customs and Border Protection website and look around. You can also cross check with Homeland Security and other official sources. And, yes, you will find data that predates the Trump administration...so you can't blame bias. For example, if I remember correctly, there were over THREE MILLION unauthorized entries in 2024.
    - kstrauser 1y ago
      Imagine how long a caravan with an extra 8 million people would be. I mean, I’ve been to a Huskers football game and seen what the exit looked like, and this would be 100x more. If such a thing were being reported by multiple reputable sources, I’d be less inclined to roll my eyes at the preposterous idea.
      - 1y ago
ETH_start 1y ago
[flagged]
- throwaway894345 1y ago
  Which countries are using the military to enforce laws? Which countries are denying due process? In which countries is the executive branch ignoring court orders? In which countries is the executive branch claiming the powers of the legislative and judicial branches? I have no doubt these countries exist, but I'm deeply skeptical that they are imitable.
  - ETH_start 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - Kim_Bruning 1y ago
      How do you know they're illegal immigrants if not by means of due process?
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - porridgeraisin 1y ago
        I'm not from America, so just a casual observer. Isn't it possible to do a simple database check with some kind of ID? Or biometric? Where I'm from both are registered for ~everyone so it's fairly simple to do a check. The point being that if the database does not have the record they must have been an illegal?
        weberc2 1y ago
        The US doesn't keep biometric data on every citizen or lawful resident, and the government can trivially lie or make a mistake about whether they did the database/ID check. This isn't a hypothetical, many legal residents and some citizens have been swept up, and without due process they have no ability to say, "I'm a legal resident" or "I'm a US citizen". They can just be shipped off to an El Salvadoran prison camp where the president can claim, "oops, I can't get them back because they're not in our jurisdiction any more".
billy99k 1y ago
[flagged]
- slater 1y ago
  His supporters tried to overthrow the government.
ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
Trump would not have won if Dems had not escalated illegal immigration 2020-24. It was such an unforced error on Biden's part
- JCattheATM 1y ago
  That was never a real issue, it was just something pushed by Fox.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - JCattheATM 1y ago
      No, it's not an error at all, but you're showing the real problem in your reply. I'd suggest doing some light reading on the reliability and integrity of the sources you prefer to get your 'news' from.
    - johnnyanmac 1y ago
      The error is that you're ignoring the actual statistics in lieu of what Fox told you. I can't make a horse drink, but feel free to look up the immigration statistics in Biden's term vs trump's first term.
- motorest 1y ago
  > Trump would not have won if Dems had not escalated illegal immigration 2020-24. Do you actually have any source to support your claim? I mean, MAGA nuts have been swearing for over a decade that there was a torrent of illegal immigrants arriving each day into the country, and that somehow democrats were to blame, but even after Trump's fascist push with it's forced deportations of everyone including US citizens without due process the numbers barely reached 100k. And now we're seeing Trump's ICE thugs mobilizing a small army of agents to assault Home Depot parking lots? Where are all those illegal immigrants?
  - 1y ago
_DeadFred_ 1y ago
Even Ronald Reagan wasn't as cruel as the current regime and implemented an Amnesty for millions instead of doing what Trump/ICE are currently doing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control...
- aaronbaugher 1y ago
  Reagan's amnesty, like the others, was a bait and switch. The DC/corporate establishment said, "Let us amnesty the ones that are here, and we'll get control of the border and stop the flow." After getting their amnesty, the second part never happens. That's led directly to the current mess because it taught people that the most important thing is to get into the country, regardless of legality, so you could be in place when the next amnesty came along.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
    Exactly right.
  - bsder 1y ago
    Except that Covid showed us that the immigrants quit coming and even go home if there is no job. We know how to stop illegal immigration--you put CEOs in jail for employing illegal immigrants. Illegal immigration stops dead. "Illegal immigration" is simply a dogwhistle.
    - aaronbaugher 1y ago
      True. Maybe the worst act of Trump's first term was commuting the sentence of a kosher meatpacking company executive. He was in prison for bank fraud, but he should have been there because he got busted for having hundreds of illegals working in Postville, Iowa. We should be going hard after the corporations and their executives who hire illegals and deporting the illegals.
      - ygjb 1y ago
dfxm12 1y ago
In the context of finding an enemy, the admin literally tried to recreate the premise of the Michael Moore film Canadian Bacon before realizing it just wasn't sticking. I'll bet they took it as a challenge.
ExoticPearTree 1y ago
> It's fascism 101. It is absolutely not. It is politics 101: you are the only one who can solve a problem. War on Drugs, War on Terror.
- ygjb 1y ago
  That's disingenuous - all policy is inherently political. Reducing the tactics of fascism to politics is no different than the claim that all politicians are the same. It's no mistake that the War on Drugs and the War on Terror were both radical increases in authoritarian power, both of which were implemented by Republicans as part of right-wing approaches to addressing both perceived and real threats. Yes, those are political objectives, but the entire point of calling them out as fascist is to distinguish them from other anti-fascist political objectives which seek to reduce or constrain the power of the state, or to strengthen human rights guaranteed by the state.
  - ExoticPearTree 1y ago
    > both of which were implemented by Republicans as part of right-wing approaches to addressing both perceived and real threats. In between republican presidents there were also Democrat presidents and they did zero to put a stop to any of them. Zero. Using your logic above, both types of presidents are fascist in nature since they followed the same policies. What I am saying is that when the state takes power from the people, it (almost) never gives it back. Just like with laws, repealing them is a gargantuan task and again, almost no will to do it. Taxes, they go up more then they ever go down.
  - 93po 1y ago
    Voted for overwhelmingly by both parties. Obama also started wars in new countries. Clinton expanded war on drugs despite criticizing it. And all dem presidents failed to deschedule cannabis and other relatively harmless drugs.

typeofhuman 1y ago

[flagged]

Larrikin 1y ago
That's because of racism for two hundred years that made it so there was only one gym for the kids in that area. If it's a true story. Your comment history reads like conservative talking points fabricated by someone pretending to be black or pretending to care about black people. Specifically not like a black conservative.
- nothercastle 1y ago
  Op is describing very real cost shifting that happens. Certain corporations get large benefits from migrant workers but they are human and have to live somewhere so the cost of housing and feeding them gets shifted to adjacent communities. These adjacent communities get hit twice because migrant labor also decreases salaries for locals. People who are in the high earning buckets benefit from the cheaper wages and abundant work force for construction, landscaping maid services.
  - righthand 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - nathan_compton 1y ago
    Op should blame the people in the high earning bucket. It is ridiculous to blame the poor migrant workers in this situation - its not like they are living high on the hog. They are, by your description, victims as well, employed only because they can be treated more poorly than local people.
    - msgodel 1y ago
      Op is in fact criticizing the policy those people benefit from. Just because the migrants are used as human pawns doesn't mean the policy critique is invalid.
      - nathan_compton 1y ago
        In this context, of violent enforcement against the pawns, the above bears emphasis.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
  - seadan83 1y ago
    Funny, I stayed at a hotel in a small town in Texas recently that was across the street from a construction site. The hotel owner said that since Trump was elected that occupancy was way down. Lots of the workers at the construction site were undocumented and stayed at the hotel. Since Trump's election, nothing had happened at the construction site and the hotel's future was in question. > These adjacent communities get hit twice because migrant labor also decreases salaries for locals. If the migrant labor is filling in labor gaps, then no, this is not true. Seems the evidence also disagrees: "Consistently, economists have found that an increase in immigration rates does not cause a drop in wages for U.S.-born workers" [1] Please provide evidence that your statement is true even in any instance, let alone generally true. The economic impact of migrant labor is quite real, and positive, in terms of taxes and money spent back in the community. [1]https://immigrationimpact.com/2024/07/09/immigrants-do-not-take-americans-jobs-wages/ https://immigrationimpact.com/2024/07/09/immigrants-do-not-t...
viraptor 1y ago
Sorry, but this is both hyperbolic and so low on details it's hard to understand the problem. Migrants, so you mean basically homeless people? Low income, so a big chunk of the problem is that minimum wage is not enough to survive without help? (That applies to everyone, not migrants) What does being black have to do with that? What do you mean the kids have nowhere else to go? There are so many kids with no after school programs or any kind. Is there actually more real context missing here?
nothercastle 1y ago
I think this is an example of different branches of government working against each other. The feds want them here working as invisible slaves hence the crackdown. The local government has to appease the vocal activists so they put them up in public spaces to the detriment of other uses.
sigwinch 1y ago
In California?

jcon321 1y ago

[flagged]

snarf21 1y ago

Yeah, the whole platform is about Othering. The greatest trick the rich ever pulled was convincing the middle class that the poor are the cause of all their problems.

falcor84 1y ago
I'm confused. I don't recall anyone ever saying that we need to get rid of the poor, but rather that we should try to make conditions better for everyone such that fewer people are poor. Did I miss my scheduled indoctrination message?
- dfxm12 1y ago
  I don't recall anyone ever saying... Don't focus on words. Focus on actions. For example, the action of deploying the military on Americans does not make conditions better for us. Quite the contrary. The action of having a military parade for the president's birthday is expensive and doesn't benefit us. That money could be going to education, school lunches, Medicaid, building bridges, etc. But it isn't. it is only going to stroke the president's ego. Most of his actions, EO's, deals, bills, etc., fall into this category.
  - dotancohen 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - ty6853 1y ago
      I don't know it re-establishes order but rather teaches the populace to up the ante. While I don't condone repeating history, it is instructive to look at history. When this military-type response was done at Waco, Timothy McViegh looked at that (he was there) and took out 10x as many feds as they took out citizens. And it sparked a very long period of militia movements, etc.
      - dotancohen 1y ago

sigzero 1y ago

[flagged]

matt-attack 1y ago

Perceived enemy? Even the most liberal of cities touting themselves as “sanctuary cities” had to pivot and declare they simply cannot handle the influx. 12million immigrants came into the country during the Biden administration. This type of load on the system does not go unnoticed. NYC for example was drastically transformed. Why do you think it’s just a “perceived” problem?

kstrauser 1y ago
That’s a lie. The actual number was closer to 4 million. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/united-states/net-migration https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/usa/uni...
- robomartin 1y ago
  That page is a joke. Ignoring reality does not manufacture a new reality. Four million might be the legal migration count, hard to say. We had caravans of tens of thousands of people constantly streaming into the US for four years. The video evidence is out there for everyone to see. News outlets that did not engage in hiding reality and promoting falsehoods had crews at the border every day for four years collecting video evidence of what was going on. If you care about understanding the truth, go to the US Customs and Border Protection website and look around. You can also cross check with Homeland Security and other official sources. And, yes, you will find data that predates the Trump administration...so you can't blame bias. For example, if I remember correctly, there were over THREE MILLION unauthorized entries in 2024.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    Imagine how long a caravan with an extra 8 million people would be. I mean, I’ve been to a Huskers football game and seen what the exit looked like, and this would be 100x more. If such a thing were being reported by multiple reputable sources, I’d be less inclined to roll my eyes at the preposterous idea.
    - 1y ago

ETH_start 1y ago

[flagged]

throwaway894345 1y ago
Which countries are using the military to enforce laws? Which countries are denying due process? In which countries is the executive branch ignoring court orders? In which countries is the executive branch claiming the powers of the legislative and judicial branches? I have no doubt these countries exist, but I'm deeply skeptical that they are imitable.
- ETH_start 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - Kim_Bruning 1y ago
    How do you know they're illegal immigrants if not by means of due process?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - porridgeraisin 1y ago
      I'm not from America, so just a casual observer. Isn't it possible to do a simple database check with some kind of ID? Or biometric? Where I'm from both are registered for ~everyone so it's fairly simple to do a check. The point being that if the database does not have the record they must have been an illegal?
      - weberc2 1y ago
        The US doesn't keep biometric data on every citizen or lawful resident, and the government can trivially lie or make a mistake about whether they did the database/ID check. This isn't a hypothetical, many legal residents and some citizens have been swept up, and without due process they have no ability to say, "I'm a legal resident" or "I'm a US citizen". They can just be shipped off to an El Salvadoran prison camp where the president can claim, "oops, I can't get them back because they're not in our jurisdiction any more".

billy99k 1y ago

[flagged]

slater 1y ago
His supporters tried to overthrow the government.

ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago

Trump would not have won if Dems had not escalated illegal immigration 2020-24. It was such an unforced error on Biden's part

JCattheATM 1y ago
That was never a real issue, it was just something pushed by Fox.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - JCattheATM 1y ago
    No, it's not an error at all, but you're showing the real problem in your reply. I'd suggest doing some light reading on the reliability and integrity of the sources you prefer to get your 'news' from.
  - johnnyanmac 1y ago
    The error is that you're ignoring the actual statistics in lieu of what Fox told you. I can't make a horse drink, but feel free to look up the immigration statistics in Biden's term vs trump's first term.
motorest 1y ago
> Trump would not have won if Dems had not escalated illegal immigration 2020-24. Do you actually have any source to support your claim? I mean, MAGA nuts have been swearing for over a decade that there was a torrent of illegal immigrants arriving each day into the country, and that somehow democrats were to blame, but even after Trump's fascist push with it's forced deportations of everyone including US citizens without due process the numbers barely reached 100k. And now we're seeing Trump's ICE thugs mobilizing a small army of agents to assault Home Depot parking lots? Where are all those illegal immigrants?
- 1y ago

_DeadFred_ 1y ago

Even Ronald Reagan wasn't as cruel as the current regime and implemented an Amnesty for millions instead of doing what Trump/ICE are currently doing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control...

aaronbaugher 1y ago
Reagan's amnesty, like the others, was a bait and switch. The DC/corporate establishment said, "Let us amnesty the ones that are here, and we'll get control of the border and stop the flow." After getting their amnesty, the second part never happens. That's led directly to the current mess because it taught people that the most important thing is to get into the country, regardless of legality, so you could be in place when the next amnesty came along.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  Exactly right.
- bsder 1y ago
  Except that Covid showed us that the immigrants quit coming and even go home if there is no job. We know how to stop illegal immigration--you put CEOs in jail for employing illegal immigrants. Illegal immigration stops dead. "Illegal immigration" is simply a dogwhistle.
  - aaronbaugher 1y ago
    True. Maybe the worst act of Trump's first term was commuting the sentence of a kosher meatpacking company executive. He was in prison for bank fraud, but he should have been there because he got busted for having hundreds of illegals working in Postville, Iowa. We should be going hard after the corporations and their executives who hire illegals and deporting the illegals.
    - ygjb 1y ago

dfxm12 1y ago

In the context of finding an enemy, the admin literally tried to recreate the premise of the Michael Moore film Canadian Bacon before realizing it just wasn't sticking. I'll bet they took it as a challenge.

ExoticPearTree 1y ago

> It's fascism 101. It is absolutely not. It is politics 101: you are the only one who can solve a problem. War on Drugs, War on Terror.

ygjb 1y ago
That's disingenuous - all policy is inherently political. Reducing the tactics of fascism to politics is no different than the claim that all politicians are the same. It's no mistake that the War on Drugs and the War on Terror were both radical increases in authoritarian power, both of which were implemented by Republicans as part of right-wing approaches to addressing both perceived and real threats. Yes, those are political objectives, but the entire point of calling them out as fascist is to distinguish them from other anti-fascist political objectives which seek to reduce or constrain the power of the state, or to strengthen human rights guaranteed by the state.
- ExoticPearTree 1y ago
  > both of which were implemented by Republicans as part of right-wing approaches to addressing both perceived and real threats. In between republican presidents there were also Democrat presidents and they did zero to put a stop to any of them. Zero. Using your logic above, both types of presidents are fascist in nature since they followed the same policies. What I am saying is that when the state takes power from the people, it (almost) never gives it back. Just like with laws, repealing them is a gargantuan task and again, almost no will to do it. Taxes, they go up more then they ever go down.
- 93po 1y ago
  Voted for overwhelmingly by both parties. Obama also started wars in new countries. Clinton expanded war on drugs despite criticizing it. And all dem presidents failed to deschedule cannabis and other relatively harmless drugs.