6 ms·

60k trees in 25 years also seems woefully insufficient.

by brandensilva 1y ago

vouaobrasil 1y ago
A good start but there needs to be more...a lot more.
- tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
  Neither labor nor capital are free. If you want to donate yours, I'm sure they could plant a few extra trees. But those resources need to come from somewhere, and they aren't unlimited.
  - selcuka 1y ago
    > Neither labor nor capital are free. They are both free when you are the one who prints the money. Governments can definitely afford to plant trees, even though I agree that it won't solve the problem.
    - nradov 1y ago
      Printing money (monetary inflation) is essentially just a stealth tax on everyone who holds or earns dollars. I'm not opposed to increased government spending on mitigating climate change but let's be honest about it and budget for it properly rather than wrecking our currency.
      - selcuka 1y ago
        > Printing money (monetary inflation) is essentially just a stealth tax on everyone who holds or earns dollars. Of course it is. My point is someone doesn't need to donate labour or capital to make this happen. Governments, not people, should be the ones who are doing it.
      - pjerem 1y ago
        Interestingly, that’s exactly where this mantra is false. Printing money for projects that benefit the greater good does not create any inflation and costs barely anything to anyone. Print 100 for no reason and give it to the economy and for sure you create inflation. Print 100 and plant a tree, you just have a tree and a worker who get paid for doing real work. But everyone gets a tree. Printing money shouldn’t be seen as a crime in the context of climate change. But it must only be directed towards everyone benefit like public infrastructure projects that will stay public forever. Bonus : great infrastructure reduces a lot of other costs and boosts the economy.
        jaoane 1y ago
        I don’t understand how you can claim that printing money doesn’t create inflation if you spend the printed money on things you like.
        tarnith 1y ago
        Not agreeing with either side here, but, printing money and handing it to an investment class who then launders it through their companies, to acquire more assets vs printing money that goes into infrastructure, works projects, or R&D are wildly different. Not all monetary inflation is the same, and the destination of the money and the work produced with it can actually have quite an impact on the true wider economic effects of that increased money supply. To be very clear, I'm not saying monetary policy is magical, or that it doesn't cause inflation. It has very little to do with "things you like" and a lot more to do with "utility to society accomplished with the policy" along with the velocity of that money afterwards in local economies (IE. a worker is more likely to buy, well, food and rent, education. A PPP loaned exec will buy assets, or another yacht) Believe it or not, one of those can generate more widespread economic growth than the other, for the same amount of money printed
        robertlagrant 1y ago
        > printing money that goes into infrastructure, works projects, or R&D are wildly different. They're identical from the perspective of creating inflation, even though they might have different outcomes.
    - DoctorOW 1y ago
      Las Vegas doesn't print money, only the federal government can do that.
  - vouaobrasil 1y ago
    I don't mind volunteering for projects related to conservation and I do. And more people should.
  - SequoiaHope 1y ago
    This is such a funny knee-jerk response to someone simply saying we should do more of a good thing.
  - ndr42 1y ago
    Do you really think Las Vegas is cash strapped so that they can't afford it? [1] As a city that has a huge amount of tourism they have ways to do more. I do not understand why the parent commentator should have to donate his time or capital to point out that this measure is inadequate. [1] https://files.lasvegasnevada.gov/finance/2026_Fiscal_Year/CLV-FY2026_Final_Budget.pdf https://files.lasvegasnevada.gov/finance/2026_Fiscal_Year/CL...
    - johntiger1 1y ago
      Yeah there was no need for an ad hominem there
    - dijit 1y ago
      > Do you really think Las Vegas is cash strapped so that they can't afford it? I've been to Las Vegas a handful of times, and it's really striking how much poverty exists there. To be clear, I'm European and even Los Angeles or San Francisco are dystopian from my perspective; but Las Vegas is much better at keeping it out of tourist areas and it goes unreported because of it. I don't know a single person in Las Vegas who is living the middle-class lifestyle comparable to my friends in New Jersey, Philly, LA or Seattle. Statistics be damned, because likely there's massive inequality that's pushing those numbers up.
  - omnimus 1y ago
    Yeah the resources come from all the taxes. Maybe if it wasnt suck by funding hyperinflated bogus military tech… there would trees.
    - DarmokJalad1701 1y ago
      > Maybe if it wasnt suck by funding hyperinflated bogus military tech… there would trees. US military spending for 2024 was approximately $850 billion. Let's say we put all of that money into one of those $1-per-tree charities. That is 850 billion trees taking up around 7.98 million km^2 at typical planting densities. This is about 2/3 of total US land area. Maybe we can get some more value for money at scale and plant 1.275 trillion trees covering the entire US land area instead. Once all those trees are grown, they would absorb anywhere from 10kg-25kg of CO2 per year. That's about 12 to 31 gigatons per year for all of the US land area. The world currently generates ~41 gigatons of CO2 per year. The just-plant-trees "solution" doesn't really work.
renewiltord 1y ago
Fair enough, I will also write them to tell them to cancel the project.
ciberado 1y ago
In Spain, a private company has planted almost 1 million trees in one year as what I guess is in part a marketing effort[1]. Barcelona itself counts with 1.5 million of exemplars. So yes, you are probably right. 60K in 25 years is a PR note. [1] https://www.iberdrola.com/press-room/news/detail/iberdrola-has-planted-over-3-million-trees-and-will-reach-5-by-the-end-of-the-year https://www.iberdrola.com/press-room/news/detail/iberdrola-h... [2] https://www.lavanguardia.com/participacion/las-fotos-de-los-lectores/20230224/8777203/arboles-hay-barcelona.html https://www.lavanguardia.com/participacion/las-fotos-de-los-... (Spanish)
- ikurei 1y ago
  Not disagreeing with you, but I also wanna make a small effort towards being less cynical. Not knowing much about Nevada or Las Vegas politics, I'm sure the political environment in Spain, and specially in Barcelona, is very different. 60k trees in however many years (we don't know if they were mosty planted in the last 5) might be all that they could get, and this PR note is their attempt at bringing more attention and try to muster support for more. That private company that planted 1 million trees is a massive corporation with tens of thousands of employees in Spain. I'd bet their budget, even for marketing stunts, is bigger than Clark County's. Also, marketing stunts are not /just/ marketing stunts. Companies, specially huge ones, contain multitudes. I'm sure many of the folks pushing for this actually cared about planting trees.
  - ciberado 1y ago
    You are absolutely right. I don’t have detailed knowledge about the internal administrative organization of U.S. states, and I simply assumed that a county housing a world-class city like Las Vegas would have a very large budget. Even if this initiative is primarily symbolic, it could still play a valuable role in shifting public perception about managing street temperatures.
- ashoeafoot 1y ago
  Eucalyptus ? Cause tgat aint a forest, that is fire..
metalman 1y ago
beyond insuficient,perhaps a record in insuficiency friends were tree planters durring college years, "high ballers" who would clear more than $200/day 5¢ a tree, 4000+ trees a day, one woman I know did it for 10 seasons, and hurt her kicker foot after planting millions of trees. It is the literal truth that a small tree planting crew could handle all of the worlds urban tree planting scheams in a very short time. humanity has cut a lot of trillions of trees, there are (not enough) trillions left urban tree planting is tokenistic set dressing for the political theater to come. this is like a government anouncing funding for 60000 bits of new code to be written over 25 years. Story like this are perfect examples of how far from understanding the scale of human caused climate heating we are, and points to how bad things will get before anything substantive is done.
- robertlagrant 1y ago
  > humanity has cut a lot of trillions of trees, there are (not enough) trillions left Is...this true? I thought most logging was in forests that were being cultivated for logging. Can you substantiate this?
  - s1mplicissimus 1y ago
    > I thought most logging was in forests that were being cultivated for logging I wonder if you have a source for this assumption?
    - robertlagrant 1y ago
      It's not an assumption - I definitely thought it.
  - chneu 1y ago
    I believe we have more trees today then ever before. That isn't all that matters though. We replant monocultures and harvest them. This isn't a good ecosystem. It's also a net negative on the environmental emissions(carbon sequestered). The age of the forest, variety, etc all matter a lot. I spend a lot of time in forests. The difference between a harvested in the last century and an old growth forest is very obvious. They are drastically different. We don't have a lot of old growth forest anymore.
chneu 1y ago
A great example of how, in the USA, it's really easy to convince people to keep consuming. 65k trees is nothing. This is green washing.

60k trees in 25 years also seems woefully insufficient.

vouaobrasil 1y ago

A good start but there needs to be more...a lot more.

tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
Neither labor nor capital are free. If you want to donate yours, I'm sure they could plant a few extra trees. But those resources need to come from somewhere, and they aren't unlimited.
- selcuka 1y ago
  > Neither labor nor capital are free. They are both free when you are the one who prints the money. Governments can definitely afford to plant trees, even though I agree that it won't solve the problem.
  - nradov 1y ago
    Printing money (monetary inflation) is essentially just a stealth tax on everyone who holds or earns dollars. I'm not opposed to increased government spending on mitigating climate change but let's be honest about it and budget for it properly rather than wrecking our currency.
    - selcuka 1y ago
      > Printing money (monetary inflation) is essentially just a stealth tax on everyone who holds or earns dollars. Of course it is. My point is someone doesn't need to donate labour or capital to make this happen. Governments, not people, should be the ones who are doing it.
    - pjerem 1y ago
      Interestingly, that’s exactly where this mantra is false. Printing money for projects that benefit the greater good does not create any inflation and costs barely anything to anyone. Print 100 for no reason and give it to the economy and for sure you create inflation. Print 100 and plant a tree, you just have a tree and a worker who get paid for doing real work. But everyone gets a tree. Printing money shouldn’t be seen as a crime in the context of climate change. But it must only be directed towards everyone benefit like public infrastructure projects that will stay public forever. Bonus : great infrastructure reduces a lot of other costs and boosts the economy.
      - jaoane 1y ago
        I don’t understand how you can claim that printing money doesn’t create inflation if you spend the printed money on things you like.
        tarnith 1y ago
        Not agreeing with either side here, but, printing money and handing it to an investment class who then launders it through their companies, to acquire more assets vs printing money that goes into infrastructure, works projects, or R&D are wildly different. Not all monetary inflation is the same, and the destination of the money and the work produced with it can actually have quite an impact on the true wider economic effects of that increased money supply. To be very clear, I'm not saying monetary policy is magical, or that it doesn't cause inflation. It has very little to do with "things you like" and a lot more to do with "utility to society accomplished with the policy" along with the velocity of that money afterwards in local economies (IE. a worker is more likely to buy, well, food and rent, education. A PPP loaned exec will buy assets, or another yacht) Believe it or not, one of those can generate more widespread economic growth than the other, for the same amount of money printed
        robertlagrant 1y ago
        > printing money that goes into infrastructure, works projects, or R&D are wildly different. They're identical from the perspective of creating inflation, even though they might have different outcomes.
  - DoctorOW 1y ago
    Las Vegas doesn't print money, only the federal government can do that.
- vouaobrasil 1y ago
  I don't mind volunteering for projects related to conservation and I do. And more people should.
- SequoiaHope 1y ago
  This is such a funny knee-jerk response to someone simply saying we should do more of a good thing.
- ndr42 1y ago
  Do you really think Las Vegas is cash strapped so that they can't afford it? [1] As a city that has a huge amount of tourism they have ways to do more. I do not understand why the parent commentator should have to donate his time or capital to point out that this measure is inadequate. [1] https://files.lasvegasnevada.gov/finance/2026_Fiscal_Year/CLV-FY2026_Final_Budget.pdf https://files.lasvegasnevada.gov/finance/2026_Fiscal_Year/CL...
  - johntiger1 1y ago
    Yeah there was no need for an ad hominem there
  - dijit 1y ago
    > Do you really think Las Vegas is cash strapped so that they can't afford it? I've been to Las Vegas a handful of times, and it's really striking how much poverty exists there. To be clear, I'm European and even Los Angeles or San Francisco are dystopian from my perspective; but Las Vegas is much better at keeping it out of tourist areas and it goes unreported because of it. I don't know a single person in Las Vegas who is living the middle-class lifestyle comparable to my friends in New Jersey, Philly, LA or Seattle. Statistics be damned, because likely there's massive inequality that's pushing those numbers up.
- omnimus 1y ago
  Yeah the resources come from all the taxes. Maybe if it wasnt suck by funding hyperinflated bogus military tech… there would trees.
  - DarmokJalad1701 1y ago
    > Maybe if it wasnt suck by funding hyperinflated bogus military tech… there would trees. US military spending for 2024 was approximately $850 billion. Let's say we put all of that money into one of those $1-per-tree charities. That is 850 billion trees taking up around 7.98 million km^2 at typical planting densities. This is about 2/3 of total US land area. Maybe we can get some more value for money at scale and plant 1.275 trillion trees covering the entire US land area instead. Once all those trees are grown, they would absorb anywhere from 10kg-25kg of CO2 per year. That's about 12 to 31 gigatons per year for all of the US land area. The world currently generates ~41 gigatons of CO2 per year. The just-plant-trees "solution" doesn't really work.

renewiltord 1y ago

Fair enough, I will also write them to tell them to cancel the project.

ciberado 1y ago

In Spain, a private company has planted almost 1 million trees in one year as what I guess is in part a marketing effort[1]. Barcelona itself counts with 1.5 million of exemplars. So yes, you are probably right. 60K in 25 years is a PR note. [1] https://www.iberdrola.com/press-room/news/detail/iberdrola-has-planted-over-3-million-trees-and-will-reach-5-by-the-end-of-the-year https://www.iberdrola.com/press-room/news/detail/iberdrola-h... [2] https://www.lavanguardia.com/participacion/las-fotos-de-los-lectores/20230224/8777203/arboles-hay-barcelona.html https://www.lavanguardia.com/participacion/las-fotos-de-los-... (Spanish)

ikurei 1y ago
Not disagreeing with you, but I also wanna make a small effort towards being less cynical. Not knowing much about Nevada or Las Vegas politics, I'm sure the political environment in Spain, and specially in Barcelona, is very different. 60k trees in however many years (we don't know if they were mosty planted in the last 5) might be all that they could get, and this PR note is their attempt at bringing more attention and try to muster support for more. That private company that planted 1 million trees is a massive corporation with tens of thousands of employees in Spain. I'd bet their budget, even for marketing stunts, is bigger than Clark County's. Also, marketing stunts are not /just/ marketing stunts. Companies, specially huge ones, contain multitudes. I'm sure many of the folks pushing for this actually cared about planting trees.
- ciberado 1y ago
  You are absolutely right. I don’t have detailed knowledge about the internal administrative organization of U.S. states, and I simply assumed that a county housing a world-class city like Las Vegas would have a very large budget. Even if this initiative is primarily symbolic, it could still play a valuable role in shifting public perception about managing street temperatures.
ashoeafoot 1y ago
Eucalyptus ? Cause tgat aint a forest, that is fire..

metalman 1y ago

beyond insuficient,perhaps a record in insuficiency friends were tree planters durring college years, "high ballers" who would clear more than $200/day 5¢ a tree, 4000+ trees a day, one woman I know did it for 10 seasons, and hurt her kicker foot after planting millions of trees. It is the literal truth that a small tree planting crew could handle all of the worlds urban tree planting scheams in a very short time. humanity has cut a lot of trillions of trees, there are (not enough) trillions left urban tree planting is tokenistic set dressing for the political theater to come. this is like a government anouncing funding for 60000 bits of new code to be written over 25 years. Story like this are perfect examples of how far from understanding the scale of human caused climate heating we are, and points to how bad things will get before anything substantive is done.

robertlagrant 1y ago
> humanity has cut a lot of trillions of trees, there are (not enough) trillions left Is...this true? I thought most logging was in forests that were being cultivated for logging. Can you substantiate this?
- s1mplicissimus 1y ago
  > I thought most logging was in forests that were being cultivated for logging I wonder if you have a source for this assumption?
  - robertlagrant 1y ago
    It's not an assumption - I definitely thought it.
- chneu 1y ago
  I believe we have more trees today then ever before. That isn't all that matters though. We replant monocultures and harvest them. This isn't a good ecosystem. It's also a net negative on the environmental emissions(carbon sequestered). The age of the forest, variety, etc all matter a lot. I spend a lot of time in forests. The difference between a harvested in the last century and an old growth forest is very obvious. They are drastically different. We don't have a lot of old growth forest anymore.

chneu 1y ago

A great example of how, in the USA, it's really easy to convince people to keep consuming. 65k trees is nothing. This is green washing.