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JavaScript Chrome developers did a good job of convincing people that Safari is the new IE. I love Safari on macOS. I love the pinch/zoom with the tabs. I love

by hk1337 1y ago

JavaScript Chrome developers did a good job of convincing people that Safari is the new IE. I love Safari on macOS. I love the pinch/zoom with the tabs. I love that private browsing mode, at least seems to, keep things contained to the tab they started with. e.g. if I open facebook in a private tab then open new tab and go to facebook, it’s going to make me login.

giraffe_lady 1y ago
Significantly better battery life too. Like hours.
bitpush 1y ago
You're drinking Apple kool-aid if you think Safari isn't holding web back. Lots of anti-google people dislike Safari. Safari isn't the only non-google option you know.
- hk1337 1y ago
  Apple is slow to adopt new features, sure but Google bulldozes features to be first to market so it can implemented the way they want it implemented.
  - gcau 1y ago
    >Google bulldozes features to be first to market so it can implemented the way they want it implemented Can you give an example of this?
- kstrauser 1y ago
  Safari is far from perfect, but I’m glad they don’t implement everything Chrome does. Many of the complaints come down to “Safari doesn’t even support RunBitcoinMinerInBackground.js. It sucks!” And on the plus side, it’s vastly better at power efficiency, meaning I can use my laptop longer without being plugged in.
  - arccy 1y ago
    sure if you want to live a life stuck in the App Store and Play Store walled gardens... having a decent web browser is the way towards a truly open web
hungryhobbit 1y ago
Developers don't convince anyone of anything! They just build stuff according to standards (which are inevitably set not by standards orgs, but by the most popular browsers), and then they expect all browsers to follow those standards and "just work". When a browser like Safari fails to adhere to those standards, sites will break ... but you can't expect developers (of most sites; I'm not talking about the top 100 or anything) to test in every possible browser ... and then change their code to accommodate them. Certainly not in ones with single-digit percentages of market share, that require their own OS to test (like Safari).
- kstrauser 1y ago
  Wikipedia says Safari’s their #2 browser, with 17% traffic share: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers Web devs ignore Safari at their own risk, lest 100% of iPhone users be unable to use their site.
  - someNameIG 1y ago
    If Apple wanted more web devs to support Safari they should port it to Linux and Windows. The web is supposed to be an open standard, you shouldn't need a devices and software from a specific manufacturer to develop for it (I say that posting from a Mac).
    - sertsa 1y ago
      At some point there was a Safari for Windows.
      - hungryhobbit 1y ago
        But there isn't anymore, so there's no way for a web developer to ensure Safari compatibility (unless you expect every dev shop in the world to buy a Mac just for that purpose).
Uehreka 1y ago
Chrome’s developers didn’t have to say anything. Anyone who’s been trying to build on the latest web features (for me, particularly WebGL, WebRTC, WebGPU and IndexedDB) over the past decade has been bitten by Safari over and over again. They usually come around after being raked over the coals by the web dev community, but they’re still usually years behind. When “Safari is the new IE” was first published, they absolutely were. They’ve gotten a bit better since then, but all the same it was hilarious to see people who used to rail against IE for flaunting web standards (cough John Gruber cough) suddenly start saying that web standards were a bogus racket once Apple decided to stop keeping up with them.
oefrha 1y ago
Safari is the new IE not because they refuse to implement questionable new web “standards”, but because - It has all sorts of random quirks in their supposedly supported features; - Mobile Safari has even more quirks; - No other major browser introduces random serious bugs like Safari does (remember the IndexedDB one?); - Version updates are tied to OS updates meaning it’s the only major browsers that’s not evergreen, and coupled with the previous points you have to carry workarounds for bugs forever, and of course can’t use new features; - Extensions are 10x harder to develop and more than 10x more expensive to publish since they’re tied to Xcode, Apple Developer Program and MAS, because fuck you; - Like another commenter said, it’s the only browser that crashes on me (random “this page has experienced a problem and reloaded” or something like that); - PWA is another kind of hell in Safari but opinions are divided so whatever. At the very least it’s not conducive to an open web. It’s a piece of hot garbage, like a lot of other Apple software these days. Sure, maybe it’s battery efficient or something. I don’t give a shit because I work plugged in. Oh and developer tools in Safari are crap but who cares.

by hk1337 1y ago

giraffe_lady 1y ago

Significantly better battery life too. Like hours.

bitpush 1y ago

You're drinking Apple kool-aid if you think Safari isn't holding web back. Lots of anti-google people dislike Safari. Safari isn't the only non-google option you know.

hk1337 1y ago
Apple is slow to adopt new features, sure but Google bulldozes features to be first to market so it can implemented the way they want it implemented.
- gcau 1y ago
  >Google bulldozes features to be first to market so it can implemented the way they want it implemented Can you give an example of this?
kstrauser 1y ago
Safari is far from perfect, but I’m glad they don’t implement everything Chrome does. Many of the complaints come down to “Safari doesn’t even support RunBitcoinMinerInBackground.js. It sucks!” And on the plus side, it’s vastly better at power efficiency, meaning I can use my laptop longer without being plugged in.
- arccy 1y ago
  sure if you want to live a life stuck in the App Store and Play Store walled gardens... having a decent web browser is the way towards a truly open web

hungryhobbit 1y ago

Developers don't convince anyone of anything! They just build stuff according to standards (which are inevitably set not by standards orgs, but by the most popular browsers), and then they expect all browsers to follow those standards and "just work". When a browser like Safari fails to adhere to those standards, sites will break ... but you can't expect developers (of most sites; I'm not talking about the top 100 or anything) to test in every possible browser ... and then change their code to accommodate them. Certainly not in ones with single-digit percentages of market share, that require their own OS to test (like Safari).

kstrauser 1y ago
Wikipedia says Safari’s their #2 browser, with 17% traffic share: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers Web devs ignore Safari at their own risk, lest 100% of iPhone users be unable to use their site.
- someNameIG 1y ago
  If Apple wanted more web devs to support Safari they should port it to Linux and Windows. The web is supposed to be an open standard, you shouldn't need a devices and software from a specific manufacturer to develop for it (I say that posting from a Mac).
  - sertsa 1y ago
    At some point there was a Safari for Windows.
    - hungryhobbit 1y ago
      But there isn't anymore, so there's no way for a web developer to ensure Safari compatibility (unless you expect every dev shop in the world to buy a Mac just for that purpose).

Uehreka 1y ago

Chrome’s developers didn’t have to say anything. Anyone who’s been trying to build on the latest web features (for me, particularly WebGL, WebRTC, WebGPU and IndexedDB) over the past decade has been bitten by Safari over and over again. They usually come around after being raked over the coals by the web dev community, but they’re still usually years behind. When “Safari is the new IE” was first published, they absolutely were. They’ve gotten a bit better since then, but all the same it was hilarious to see people who used to rail against IE for flaunting web standards (cough John Gruber cough) suddenly start saying that web standards were a bogus racket once Apple decided to stop keeping up with them.

oefrha 1y ago

Safari is the new IE not because they refuse to implement questionable new web “standards”, but because - It has all sorts of random quirks in their supposedly supported features; - Mobile Safari has even more quirks; - No other major browser introduces random serious bugs like Safari does (remember the IndexedDB one?); - Version updates are tied to OS updates meaning it’s the only major browsers that’s not evergreen, and coupled with the previous points you have to carry workarounds for bugs forever, and of course can’t use new features; - Extensions are 10x harder to develop and more than 10x more expensive to publish since they’re tied to Xcode, Apple Developer Program and MAS, because fuck you; - Like another commenter said, it’s the only browser that crashes on me (random “this page has experienced a problem and reloaded” or something like that); - PWA is another kind of hell in Safari but opinions are divided so whatever. At the very least it’s not conducive to an open web. It’s a piece of hot garbage, like a lot of other Apple software these days. Sure, maybe it’s battery efficient or something. I don’t give a shit because I work plugged in. Oh and developer tools in Safari are crap but who cares.