8 ms·

Consider Knitting

197 points by ingve 1y ago

bonki 1y ago
I like crotcheting (tried it again for the first time since childhood during Covid). My main problem is that, unless you have already mastered it and can do it in your sleep, I have to fully concentrate on it to not fuck things up, which means I can't do something else at the same time, e.g. listen to an audiobook. And because I'm so slow it takes too much time for me to not think that it's a waste of time because I could have done something more meaningful instead. Objectively, I know it is wrong to think so because the whole point of it is to get away from other stuff and let your brain rest for a while, but it just doesn't work for me and creates extra stress, sadly.
- sureglymop 1y ago
  Done something meaningful instead? Why don't you just do it for fun or while relaxing? I don't quite understand why it wouldn't be meaningful.
  - bonki 1y ago
    I absolutely did it for fun and to learn something new, it just didn't feel like as much fun as I had anticipated to me personally. I want it to be fun and relaxing, there is some fun in it but it's not relaxing.
- KurSix 1y ago
  The early stages of any craft can feel more like mental gymnastics than relaxation
  - bonki 1y ago
    Absolutely! The difference is that with other things the learning curve can be part of the fun while you are in the process of figuring things out. With crotcheting, it only really takes a couple of minutes to get going, but doing it fast and consistently takes time, but you aren't really learning anything new other than becoming faster, so the emotional return isn't as big compared to, let's say, learning a new language or playing an instrument. It's just very mechanical by nature; which is a good thing, but for me personally, it takes away a bit of the joy.
    - KurSix 1y ago
      It's more about flow than discovery after a point
- degamad 1y ago
  Could you try crocheting something for a purpose? Say, make small stuffed toys to donate to a local charity? That way, the task becomes "meaningful" and thus worthy of the additional time and focus that it demands, without becoming a pressing obligation on you to cause additional stress...
  - bonki 1y ago
    I did have a purpose and it didn't help much in this regard, it only helped with keeping up the friendly pressure to actually finish them. But generally, your advice is good nonetheless.
- al_borland 1y ago
  This was probably my issue as well. I grew up seeing my grandma crochet. She’d do it while watching TV (though I’m not sure if she was actually watching or just in proximity to others watching), and she was quick. I have a couple afghans she made. She probably made a couple dozen. The learning curve was higher than I expected, especially without someone to be there showing me stuff. I just tried watching some YouTube videos. I got frustrated and quit rather quickly. I’ve heard knitting is easier, but I like the idea of crochet better.
  - bonki 1y ago
    My mom also knits while watching TV, and she is super fast. I think one secret ingredient is that she doesn't care about making mistakes. Tinier mistakes she just ignores (even if they are visible in the end [I don't like that, so that's something I try to avoid, which adds pressure and slows me down]) and she doesn't mind backtracking and re-doing several rows if she really fucks up.
    - al_borland 1y ago
      My grandma seemingly didn’t ignore or tolerate mistakes. That’s why she ended up stopping. People tried to get her to crochet or knit toward the end of her life and if she made a mistake, she’d start ripping it all apart. When the mistakes became too frequent, that was it. Maybe that’s where I get it from, lol.
  - dmd 1y ago
    Where did you hear knitting is easier? I was under the impression that crocheting is much easier.
    - al_borland 1y ago
      I’m not sure where exactly, just something I heard a few times and it stuck. I just looked around and found mixed opinions. Though, I found this one which may sum up the debate. > Crochet is harder to go from 0 to 1 but knitting is harder to go from 1 to 10.
  - 1y ago
- benchly 1y ago
  If I may ask, do you suffer from anxiety and depression? I do. As part of that whole package, I find it exceedingly difficult to focus on more than one thing at a time. As much as I would love to sit and code a bit while watching tv or listening to an audio book, I simply cannot do it. I've tried many times and find it impossible to focus on my project while my brain is more interested in the easy attention economy of the television. Conversely, my wife is very talented in the fiber arts. She seems to be able to sew, crochet and knit while watching tv without any effort at all, paying attention to both whatever show we have on and what she's doing. Granted, she's been at it for well over a decade so there's some learned adaptation there, but as far back as I can remember she has never had the same problem I do. She also does not suffer from anxiety and depression on the level that I do. I've been wondering if there's a correlation for awhile now. Interesting that this popped up on HN and pulled me out of lurk mode.
  - contrarian1234 1y ago
    Has nothing to do with anxiety or depression Multitasking is just a "personality trait".. and predominantly women are more able to multitask than men. You should simply ask around and see the correlations. Some of the happiest people I know can't multitask at all
    - bonki 1y ago
      I don't want this to sound derogatory but my experience is that simpler minds are generally happier in life, and I'd guess that this often (not always) comes with an inability to multitask, so I believe you are right. I had a friend in school (great dude, very grounded and happy person) who couldn't eat ice cream and walk at the same time (I swear I'm not making this up).
      - contrarian1234 1y ago
        I've found the exact opposite. More intelligent people can't multitask. But they generally can think about things more deeply. People that can multitask literally are constantly thinking about several things at the same time.
- saalweachter 1y ago
  Consider, though, one of the unique aspects of crochet or knitting -- you can fuck things up and it's not a big deal. Unlike woodworking or sewing, where once something is cut it cannot be uncut, with these crafts if you zone out while watching Wheel of Fortune and do a few rows wrong, you can always just ... undo it and try again. Nothing is lost but your time, and if you are doing it to relax while watching TV, you haven't really lost anything at all.
- JHonaker 1y ago
  > I'm so slow it takes too much time for me to not think that it's a waste of time because I could have done something more meaningful instead. That's the funny thing about the idea of meaningful things. It is solely determined by what you think is meaningful. Personally, just sitting and making something is an extremely meaningful activity to me.
- rideontime 1y ago
  Until you're more experienced, listen to music or something else where it's okay if you take your focus off of it to focus on counting your stitches. Yes, it won't be "productive," but your crocheting is already productive.
- munificent 1y ago
  > And because I'm so slow it takes too much time for me to not think that it's a waste of time because I could have done something more meaningful instead. I struggle with this too, especially because knitting is so slow and I'm in the unusual but fortunate position of having my other hobby (writing a couple of books) clearly having had much more impact. There's a part of my brain when I knit that's like, "You know if you spent this hour working on another book, it would leave a bigger mark in the world." But I also know that part of that impulse is unhealthy. I wrote those books for a lot reasons, many of which were good. But some of that drive did come from a sense that I'm not enough just being me and I need to be making something of value for as many people as possible to consider myself worthy. I'm trying to grow out of that mindset and accept myself just as I am. So I consider time spent knitting as sort of exposure therapy for getting used to the idea that I deserve to take time for my selfish joys.
- mbonnet 1y ago
  While I agree with you, I don't think that "mastering" crocheting takes very long at all. Maybe two weeks of an hour a day - MUCH less than knitting.
igvadaimon 1y ago
Consider climbing!
jader201 1y ago
Related: Why is everybody knitting chickens? 172 points, 122 comments (5 days ago) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44108139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44108139
- telesilla 1y ago
  My mother, a knitter for many decades, says to me about this - >They are comfort chickens, good for cuddles for those going thru breast cancer treatment. A nice shape to hold, I understand. You might have to learn to knit..
- munificent 1y ago
  Yup! That's the article that gave me the nudge to finally write this post.
safety1st 1y ago
Yep! Any type of desk/knowledge work job tends to be more cerebral and less... Sensory. If you have this type of job, any sort of hobby that unlocks the senses can be very rewarding and add balance to your life. For me it's lifting weights and singing.
- Finnucane 1y ago
  When our work is looking at screens, our games are looking at screens, our entertainment is looking at screens, etc., getting away from that and doing something that doesn't involve screens is refreshing.
petesergeant 1y ago
While I'm very open-minded to knitting, also consider picking up a musical instrument. Guitar, ukulele, keyboard. There are apps that'll teach you, and it's immensely gratifying -- if like me you obsess over certain songs -- to then be able to work towards playing those.
- smackeyacky 1y ago
  No better time in history to learn guitar. Amazing online resources, the world is flooded with cheap guitars as well if you’re happy with 2nd hand. There is a technical side to it (tuning, restringing) and plenty of toys, pedals and computer integration to any nerd hearts content. Even if you get stuck at 3 chords it’s amazing the number of pop songs you can suddenly play. Plus if you get past there you still have classical, jazz or whatever super hard path you want to travel to explore.
  - lemonberry 1y ago
    Agreed. I picked up mine about a year ago after not playing for years. The resources are incredible. Super fun time to be playing.
  - lemming 1y ago
    Do you have any recommendations for online resources? A few years ago my wife and I started with Justin guitar, but then we switched to piano to tempt our daughter. Is that a good choice, or are there better options?
    - petesergeant 1y ago
      I (op) restarted guitar recently, and Justin Guitar definitely seemed to be the internet's recommendation. I found it to be OK! The content is good but the app was a bit janky. I switched to online Zoom classes. Two people I know have used Simply Piano (and there's a guitar version of the same app) and swear by it, so probably also worth a look.
  - criddell 1y ago
zavec 1y ago
Fiber arts are great! Just finished crocheting an amigurumi Ferris (from rust), immensely satisfying.
sergioisidoro 1y ago
The thing knitting taught me is that you can have something beautiful and useful even tho literally every part of the piece is a single point of failure. No redundancy, no backstop. If any of the stitches gets cut, the entire piece can unravel completely. We're so used to redundancy, but sometimes you just need to get things done, and it's ok if it's all a deck of cards.
- n4r9 1y ago
  > it's ok if it's all a deck of cards The idiom you're looking for may be "house of cards": https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/house+of+cards https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/house+of+cards
  - croisillon 1y ago
    after that comment i hope he gets his deck in order
- kzrdude 1y ago
  At least the yarn has more han one strand. It's redundant at some level :)
- al_borland 1y ago
  When I visited Sweden I stumbled across nålebinding. It predates knitting and crochet, and from what I read, it didn’t suffer from this issue of unraveling. Though I think that is a double edged sword, as it also means it’s hard to go back and fix a mistake if one is made.
- bregma 1y ago
  It depends on your medium. A good wool has little hooks along the shaft of its staple so once knit the yarn will cling. Cutting a single stitch will not cause a loss of coherency. In fact, a classic knitting technique for crafting something like a cardigan made with wool involves knitting in the round (making a spiral tube, essentially) and then slicing it open for the button band and sleeves. It's called "steeking".
- 1y ago
Gigachad 1y ago
I started making cosplay accessories and custom plushies for furries. There’s almost an unlimited range of stuff to make. 3D printed glasses, oversized beanies, custom bags, etc. Feels very satisfying to make a physical thing and hand it over to the buyer.
- KurSix 1y ago
  There's something uniquely satisfying about making something weirdly specific that only exists because you made it
  - Gigachad 1y ago
    100%. There’s quite a few things I’ve got now which would be thousands of dollars to have someone else make for me but cost very little to make myself. Just requiring a few weekends of work. Stuff that feels quite luxury to own.
    - zavec 1y ago
      This sounds interesting! Are you able to share any specifics, or would that be too personal?
      - Gigachad 1y ago
        I wanted a custom kigurumi like these[1] but didn’t want to fork over thousands of dollars for one. Ended up buying a sewing machine and fleece, learning to sew while making it. Was a bit of a brutal first project but after about 2 months off and on work in my free time I was able to complete it. Was then able to make 5 more of them for friends. The later ones were significantly easier. Also made myself a custom plushie which would have cost around $1000AUD had I commissioned someone to make it. After doing it all, I can say, yeah the prices actually are fair if you need to actually make a living off it, but also you can just do it yourself with a $300 sewing machine and some determination. [1] https://www.curlworks.net/kigurumi https://www.curlworks.net/kigurumi
    - 1y ago
KurSix 1y ago
I'm more of a cross-stitch person myself, but the feelings really resonated, especially that craving for tactile, analog creation after spending all day in the digital ether. There's something incredibly grounding about watching a piece come together, stitch by stitch, knowing your hands made it real.
tiniuclx 1y ago
The point about being disconnected with tactile sensation is very poignant. I've experimented with crafts before, but my go-to hobby has always been music - stringed instruments like the guitar. There's something very rewarding about the instant feedback you get when you fret down a string, and how much nuance you can get out of the smallest movements of your hands.
- agumonkey 1y ago
  Indeed, the subtlety of musical instrument is so special. ps: And then there's playing with other people, the lock-in is one of the few near esoteric experience I experienced, but I digressed.
- Cthulhu_ 1y ago
  Likewise with physical instruments vs digital; it's very tempting for someone working in tech to stay there and use a DAW and the like, but a physical instrument has so much more depth. I've got a bodhrán which on the surface is one of the simplest instruments, but the variety of sounds you can get out of it is really stimulating (depending on where you hit it, how, how hard, how fast, how you hold it, where / whether you press your hand, etc). And it's living, depending on temperature, humidity, how long you've handled it, etc the sound changes.
pingou 1y ago
Shameful plug, made an app to learn knitting called Knitting Genius https://apps.apple.com/us/app/knitting-genius-knit-easy/id1318598164 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/knitting-genius-knit-easy/id13... Indeed knitting is not so much different from programming and you have the whole touch aspect that is very pleasing.
davidwilliammr 1y ago
The idea of sitting and quietly knitting is appealing but whenever I look at knitted goods I think there's no way I would spend hours making some rubbish tea towel/sweater etc
- benchly 1y ago
  Scarves and hats are useful, though. Knit sweaters can be very comfortable and look good, if done well. Granted, I say that as a person who lives in a cold-half-the-year climate, but my point is that, just like coders, there's plenty of shitty knitters out there. The key with any skill is to approach it as a student, ready to improve. If this is something you wanted to try, get ready to make a few rubbish tea towels before you refine your understanding.
- cousin_it 1y ago
  Yeah. It's similar with origami, very fun to make, but the end result looks unescapably like "something someone made", not a fully cooked "thing". Some musical styles also feel that way, jazz most notably. Wonder if there are any books or articles analyzing this fully cooked / not fully cooked feeling.
- rkangel 1y ago
  For myself, I mostly knit a lot of socks. Padding around the house in winter, in woollen socks that I have made myself is very satisfying.
- munificent 1y ago
  That's fair. If I didn't live in the Pacific Northwest where scarves and hats are eminently useful and part of the local style, I'd probably be less interested. But, also, I've found my tastes changed some as I got into knitting. There's a sort of "see through the Matrix" effect where as I learned more about knitting, I could see things about what other people are wearing that I didn't notice before. I can often tell when someone is wearing a hand-knitted garment and every now and then even notice what yarn or pattern it is. That makes knitted clothing and accessories more interesting to see and then more interesting for myself to wear: I'm not sending a signal to other knitters about who I am. But if I still lived on the Gulf Coast where it's hot all the time? Yeah, probably not knitting as much.
jvanderbot 1y ago
I find woodworking fun for basically all the same reasons. Plus there's still the math of adding up things to predict cut layouts, and you end up with a new shelf or box or table. I'm not sure I would use anything I knitted.
- treszkai 1y ago
  I also found woodworking recently as a software engineer and it's incredibly rewarding. Both the tactile feeling of the activity, the idea of building something that _exists_ in physical form and exists in your or a loved one's home, and the pride that you feel about a finished product and having overcome challenges and learned something. Unlike knitting, I love its usefulness. There are so only many use cases for knitwear, but furniture, man, everyone needs furniture. And being in a home that I built by my two hands is infinite joy. The three aspects where it falls short to knitting: - It can't be done mindlessly. It would be unsafe and you'd make costly mistakes that you can't undo by pulling on the yarn. - It's more expensive. The materials are a bit more pricy (compared to hours spent on working them), but the machines certainly are. - You are confined to space and time. Whether it's your garage or wood shop where you have machines and can make noise and dust, or it's your living room where you exclusively use hand tools – you surely can't do it in your car while waiting for the kids, or at the university, or on the public transport. Whittling small objects is the one exception. But yes, woodworking is awesome.
  - munificent 1y ago
    Agree on all accounts. I very much enjoy the limited woodworking I've done, but the logistics are much trickier than knitting. I do find whittling to be an interesting middle point. Like knitting, you don't need a dedicated workshop. It doesn't take a lot of set up and tear down for a given session. You can fit the project and tools in a small space. Of course, you're shedding wood chips the whole time, so you can't really whittle on the couch. And you sure as hell can't do it on an airplane. But you can do it when, say, camping with friends, or sitting on the back porch when it's nice out.
- bonki 1y ago
  I find woodworking extremely alluring. I'd love to do woodworking, but that requires space for an environment which I don't have. I like to think that in a parallel universe I build guitars and restore old wooden furniture.
somewhereoutth 1y ago
Knitting was a hipster thing in London (and elsewhere most likely) for about 6 months back in the dark days of peak hipsterism (2000-2010?). It takes rather a lot of time and effort, so I guess they got bored of it pretty quick.
d--b 1y ago
As an engineer you might also create your very own punch-card programmable Jacquard loom. It kind of defeats the meditation thing though :-)
voidUpdate 1y ago
In the same vein, I've been enjoying making plushies recently, when my body allows me to. You end up with something you made yourself, even if it sometimes looks a bit skrunkly, and they're great gifts (for my friend group anyway, which mostly consists of trans girls that need more plushies in their lives)
- zavec 1y ago
  I can't believe I never thought of trying to crochet a blahaj until just now
  - voidUpdate 1y ago
    That's a great idea, I took apart a sacrifical blahaj and created patterns from all the panels so I could make my own. They came out a little skrunkly though, I used fabric that was a lot stretchier than I expected
lukaslalinsky 1y ago
If you live in a climate with at least somewhat cold winters, I'd highly recommend starting with a hat. It's a simple project, but you can already incorporate some patterns, there are millions guides online and if you use real wool, you end up with something really comfy, warm and most importantly practical.
padraigfl 1y ago
One I do occasionally that I feel like gets a great mid point between the passiveness of knitting and more thoroughly engaged effort of things like woodworking has been making pop up cards. I seem to have an intuitive competency at it but the combination of figuring out the layout, getting the measurements down and preparing the materials (I'll usually use basic card and style the individual pieces of card to match what I need e.g. making a card of floor-boarding for the wooden floor base) gives a huge amount of repetitive work that can be done while watching something. The obvious next step is to invest time getting into origami so I can do more complex layouts.
rkangel 1y ago
This article misses a point that I really like knitting - that it is a lot like executing software. There are a small number of knitting techniques - knit, purl, a few increases and decreases etc. Knitting patterns give you sequences to apply these primitives and at the end you have a complex, useful item, potentially in 3D. You're doing a few simple things repeatedly and you end up with complex behaviour. That's a CPU!
- munificent 1y ago
  I thought about discussing the connection between knitting and programming. You're exactly right that following a pattern is exactly like being a human virtual machine for a tiny programming language. There is something delightful about that. At the same time, I don't knit because it reminds me of programming. If I want to scratch the programming itch, I'll program. So I ended up not mentioning it in the article, but there's definitely an overlap.
kijowski 1y ago
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twoquestions 1y ago
Hardest possible concur with everything OP said. Knitting and other fiber arts are the grandmother of computer programming, and I'd go so far as to say your CS education is incomplete without at least passing knowledge of fabric weaving and especially weaving machine history. Ignorance is not your fault, unfortunately they can't teach you everything in college, and people tend to downplay the importance and history of "women's work", much to all our detriment. https://www.scienceandindustrymuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/jacquard-loom https://www.scienceandindustrymuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stor...
- nonethewiser 1y ago
  >I'd go so far as to say your CS education is incomplete without at least passing knowledge of fabric weaving Why?
  - timerol 1y ago
    The first programmable computer, using punchcards, was a loom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_machine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_machine
    - nmeofthestate 1y ago
      I'm going to go ahead and say that you can have a complete CS education without studying fabric looms.
      - johnfn 1y ago
        You won't have a full and comprehensive education as an author without spending a few months copying texts by hand in a scriptorium like monks did back in the 500s.
- mbonnet 1y ago
  Hard agree. I'm not even that much of a fiber artist - I can crochet, and I can weave shepherd's slings out of plant fiber/paracord/other strings. But I believe the thinking patterns help me, especially in large-but-not-complex systems thinking.
Anthony-G 1y ago
Back in the mid-90s, I asked my mother to teach me how to knit. Like many women of their time, both she and her mother were skilled at Aran knitting¹ and I was always impressed at the complex patterns that could be created from a length of yarn with two knitting needles – or three for the more complicated stitches. Even though this was the 90s and mindfulness wasn’t something anyone would have heard of in rural Ireland, it served the same function for me. I knitted an Aran scarf and a jumper (sweater in American) but didn’t actually wear either of them so I eventually gave it up as a hobby. Regardless, I think it’s important for those of us who work using computers to have hobbies where you get away from the screens and use your hands in a tactile way – ideally to make something. Cooking, baking and bread-making are things that almost anyone can do. We all have to eat and it’s great to be able to share what you’ve made with others (I find the best hobbies also have some degree of social interaction). When I cycled and mountain-biked, I used to do all my own bike maintenance and built my own wheels; I got a lot of satisfaction from building a perfectly balanced wheel. I also did a wood-work course and would have liked to have kept it up but I live in a small house without the space for a work-bench and tools. More recently, during Covid, I started to learn guitar. Even though it doesn’t come naturally and progress happens at a very slow pace, I get a lot of enjoyment from it. My goal is to get good enough that I feel confident jamming/playing with other friends who are amateur musicians. ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aran_knitting_patterns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aran_knitting_patterns
- deedree 1y ago
  How do you built your own wheels? Isn’t that super hard without industrial tools? Sincere question.
  - Someone 1y ago
    Putting a rim, hub (possibly in parts) and spokes together is (rightfully) called “wheel building” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelbuilding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelbuilding). I guess that’s what they did.
  - ics 1y ago
    Wheelbuilding in this case uses "building" to convey the measurement and adjustment required to assemble parts of the wheel. Building from parts, not from scratch materials. https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
eilccn 1y ago
I would knit all the time and alternate with coding while working remotely. I found that doing something tactile was very helpful for giving my mind a break while working through problems or waiting for things to build/compile. Now I’m in office and kind of embarrassed to bring a knitting project.
- mlinhares 1y ago
  I cook to fill the same gap, having to do something with your hands definitely helps me.
someone7x 1y ago
Read to the end and did a double-take: that's the game programming patterns guy! He has a voice I enjoy and I'm glad I got the chance to read this.
munificent 1y ago
Author here. You can thank nosecreek for prompting me to write this up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44137085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44137085 :)
- dunham 1y ago
  Thanks. This has been on my todo list for a while. I've ordered some supplies and will attempt a dishcloth (https://nimble-needles.com/patterns/easy-dishcloth-knitting-pattern/ https://nimble-needles.com/patterns/easy-dishcloth-knitting-...) and work my way up from there.
  - munificent 1y ago
    A dishcloth is a great place to start, and I've learned ~90% of my knitting from Norman. He's great. I will caution you that cotton yarn is definitely not the easiest yarn to start with. It has very little stretch which makes it hard to keep good tension and form stitches. Not impossible, just sort of difficult. It's very much like learning to play guitar starting with an acoustic compared to an electric. Everything is a little stiffer and requires a little more finger strength. So if you feel like it's more difficult than you expected, it may partially be because of the yarn.
    - dunham 1y ago
      I was impatient waiting for supplies and did a practice swatch with some cheap cotton string and take-out chopsticks (round, pointed, but not as sharp as knitting needles). That was more difficult than the real deal. There were mistakes making the actual project, occasional extra loops that I eliminated by knitting or pearling two at once in the next row (wherever I thought it was a good spot). And I think I did a row K3, P2K2, K3 instead of K3, K2P2, K3. Some rows were off by one because of the occasional extra loop. (I should have been reading the previous row.) https://imgur.com/a/ljHNNri https://imgur.com/a/ljHNNri It has already been repurposed as a blanket for my five year old's stuffed shark. (She now wants a glove because all I have to do is "make one for each side".)
criddell 1y ago
> Because regardless of how good the object itself is, it is an inarguable testament to the fact that I chose to spend dozens of quiet hours making stitch after stitch, all the while thinking about her and how much she means to me. A fraction of my life’s wick that I burned for her and no one else. That's lovely. When I moved to Portland in 2004, we went to the bank (Umpqua) to open accounts and found out that they have a knitting group at the bank every week. It was so weird and felt very Portland. Anyway, loved the post but I do have one question: how do you make coffee?
- munificent 1y ago
  Haha, good question. I have tried: * French press. Makes great coffee easily (but not super quickly), but the clean-up is a huge hassle and makes the total iteration time not worth it. I gave up on this quickly. * Aeropress. Makes good coffee and the clean-up isn't too bad. Pretty quick and not too fiddly to do. I did this for a couple of years. * Mr. Coffee drip coffee. Makes mediocre coffee very easily, pretty quickly, and with fairly easy clean-up. I did it this way for several years, but the coffee gradually got worse and worse. I tried cleaning it out with vinegar a few times but eventually ditched it. * Pour-over. Very simple, fast clean-up. Can make good coffee but it took me many iterations to dial in the parameters and making it was always fiddly and somewhat mentally taxing. I don't particularly like the fresh and fruity flavor that pour-over leans towards, otherwise I might have stuck with this. * Keurig. I hate the old DRM-based business model, but now they have reusable K-cups and take regular coffee. This is what I do now. The coffee is only mediocre, but it is very fast. Faster than microwaving a cup of hot water. Like wizardry. The clean-up is very simple and fast. I think I prefer the coffee from an Aeropress more, but the convenience of the Keurig is hard to beat. Really, I just need a tolerable unit of caffeine first thing in the morning in order to be a functioning human.
  - deleted 1y ago
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  - tonyarkles 1y ago
    > I think I prefer the coffee from an Aeropress more, but the convenience of the Keurig is hard to beat. I do dirty field work a fair bit. Large drone test flight campaigns in the middle of nowhere for a week at a time. I've got an Aeropress Go with the stainless filter, a hand grinder, and a small electric kettle that I keep in my suitcase. I'll usually grab a bag of locally-sourced beans. Man oh man has that little kit ever brought a lot of joy into the world. When someone seems like they're starting to burn out I'll make them a fresh ground cup of coffee and you can just see their eyes light up when they take that first sip. Such a wonderful piece of plastic made by a frisbee company :D
ergonaught 1y ago
My mom taught me how to crochet when I was a young boy and every now and then I still get out the yarn and pass some time. Even without attempting to make anything specific, it's quite engaging while simultaneously relaxing.
kdamica 1y ago
This is much less complex but I'm a 40 year old guy who recently took up sock darning. I'm not very good at it yet but the repairs are good enough and it's nice not to throw out otherwise good socks.
trashface 1y ago
Programmers (and other full time computer users) should be careful with this and similar yarn-based hobbies. I gave myself an apparently permanent RSI issue in my shoulder from knitting with bad technique (had too much tension in my yarn I think). I learned from you tube videos, a human probably could have told me I was doing it wrong but I didn't ask anyone. The injury does affect my computer use, when it gets real bad I have to switch my mouse pad to the other side of my desk. I haven't knitted in years and its still there.
einpoklum 1y ago
That post would really have benefitted from some photos. It is quite the challenge to talk about knitting, and patterns, and materials, so abstractly.
- munificent 1y ago
  I meant to do that, but didn't get around to it. I haven't been writing much the past couple of years for a number of reasons and I'm trying to get back into that habit. Part of that is lowering the effort required to get a post out, so I decided to not bother with adding photos even though I agree it would be better with them. Maybe I'll go back and add some if I find the time.
avg_dev 1y ago
I really enjoyed this article. I liked what the person had to say about “care” especially, and the sort of crappy scarf that his mother-in-law still loved.
atribecalledqst 1y ago
My girlfriend has been getting into crocheting recently, and I've been learning a lot about it and craft stuff in general. I've always been a computer guy... I'm bad with my hands. Could never do origami. Part of the reason I dropped out of Boy Scouts was I didn't want to learn how to make knots. I was terrible in art class, I can't draw and I honestly have trouble just visualizing things (I was not great in geometry either). It's difficult for me to be creative like that. So that's my background, lol. I could play music (and that's a hobby I still want to pursue), but lately I've been wondering if there was a craft that was better for people like me. Like, I got these cute handmade plushies as a gift recently, and I want to do something like that. (honestly it seems like crocheting and knitting might not be bad options, but just wondering what else is out there!) e; one thing I've considered is making something with electronics (I know enough about circuits to be dangerous), but the thing you run into quickly is you don't really want to just give somebody a circuit board, lol. At some point, it seems like all the interesting projects move towards 3D printing which I find intimidating.
- qiine 1y ago
  building complicated lego set could be an interesting start.
- yoyohello13 1y ago
  I've found painting mini's (like Warhammer) to be really fun. You get the structure of the model to work from, but you get a creative outlet with the painting. There is a ton of painting technique to work on and learn, and you get a game to play for extra motivation. Plus at the end of the day you have a nice display piece to look at for the shelf.
softbuilder 1y ago
This is great. I picked up weaving right before the pandemic and it carried me through. I've fallen off the past few years but hope to get back to it. Like any hobby it has the "I could do X if only I had a Y!" feature/curse that can potentially eat your bank account.
coolThingsFirst 1y ago
Just no, programmers need something categorically different. Trekking, bicycle riding, gardening, are all nice hobbies. But I don't take my advice as well, my hobbies are reading(kindle), games etc. So both work and hobbies are in front of computer. Don't recommend it.
Taikonerd 1y ago
I feel like HN really wants me to knit ;-) I was already considering taking knitting lessons because of this comment thread[0] from a week ago. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44128576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44128576 p.s. Oh, I just realized that "munificent", who posted the top-level comment in that thread, is also the author of this article.
x62Bh7948f 1y ago
>I got into knitting a few years after the pandemic. So very recently?
olejorgenb 1y ago
Assoc: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ncoMYGFXmEs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ncoMYGFXmEs (fabric in general, but contain some cool animations of knitting)

197 points by ingve 1y ago

I like crotcheting (tried it again for the first time since childhood during Covid). My main problem is that, unless you have already mastered it and can do it in your sleep, I have to fully concentrate on it to not fuck things up, which means I can't do something else at the same time, e.g. listen to an audiobook. And because I'm so slow it takes too much time for me to not think that it's a waste of time because I could have done something more meaningful instead. Objectively, I know it is wrong to think so because the whole point of it is to get away from other stuff and let your brain rest for a while, but it just doesn't work for me and creates extra stress, sadly.

sureglymop 1y ago
Done something meaningful instead? Why don't you just do it for fun or while relaxing? I don't quite understand why it wouldn't be meaningful.
- bonki 1y ago
  I absolutely did it for fun and to learn something new, it just didn't feel like as much fun as I had anticipated to me personally. I want it to be fun and relaxing, there is some fun in it but it's not relaxing.
KurSix 1y ago
The early stages of any craft can feel more like mental gymnastics than relaxation
- bonki 1y ago
  Absolutely! The difference is that with other things the learning curve can be part of the fun while you are in the process of figuring things out. With crotcheting, it only really takes a couple of minutes to get going, but doing it fast and consistently takes time, but you aren't really learning anything new other than becoming faster, so the emotional return isn't as big compared to, let's say, learning a new language or playing an instrument. It's just very mechanical by nature; which is a good thing, but for me personally, it takes away a bit of the joy.
  - KurSix 1y ago
    It's more about flow than discovery after a point
degamad 1y ago
Could you try crocheting something for a purpose? Say, make small stuffed toys to donate to a local charity? That way, the task becomes "meaningful" and thus worthy of the additional time and focus that it demands, without becoming a pressing obligation on you to cause additional stress...
- bonki 1y ago
  I did have a purpose and it didn't help much in this regard, it only helped with keeping up the friendly pressure to actually finish them. But generally, your advice is good nonetheless.
al_borland 1y ago
This was probably my issue as well. I grew up seeing my grandma crochet. She’d do it while watching TV (though I’m not sure if she was actually watching or just in proximity to others watching), and she was quick. I have a couple afghans she made. She probably made a couple dozen. The learning curve was higher than I expected, especially without someone to be there showing me stuff. I just tried watching some YouTube videos. I got frustrated and quit rather quickly. I’ve heard knitting is easier, but I like the idea of crochet better.
- bonki 1y ago
  My mom also knits while watching TV, and she is super fast. I think one secret ingredient is that she doesn't care about making mistakes. Tinier mistakes she just ignores (even if they are visible in the end [I don't like that, so that's something I try to avoid, which adds pressure and slows me down]) and she doesn't mind backtracking and re-doing several rows if she really fucks up.
  - al_borland 1y ago
    My grandma seemingly didn’t ignore or tolerate mistakes. That’s why she ended up stopping. People tried to get her to crochet or knit toward the end of her life and if she made a mistake, she’d start ripping it all apart. When the mistakes became too frequent, that was it. Maybe that’s where I get it from, lol.
- dmd 1y ago
  Where did you hear knitting is easier? I was under the impression that crocheting is much easier.
  - al_borland 1y ago
    I’m not sure where exactly, just something I heard a few times and it stuck. I just looked around and found mixed opinions. Though, I found this one which may sum up the debate. > Crochet is harder to go from 0 to 1 but knitting is harder to go from 1 to 10.
- 1y ago
benchly 1y ago
If I may ask, do you suffer from anxiety and depression? I do. As part of that whole package, I find it exceedingly difficult to focus on more than one thing at a time. As much as I would love to sit and code a bit while watching tv or listening to an audio book, I simply cannot do it. I've tried many times and find it impossible to focus on my project while my brain is more interested in the easy attention economy of the television. Conversely, my wife is very talented in the fiber arts. She seems to be able to sew, crochet and knit while watching tv without any effort at all, paying attention to both whatever show we have on and what she's doing. Granted, she's been at it for well over a decade so there's some learned adaptation there, but as far back as I can remember she has never had the same problem I do. She also does not suffer from anxiety and depression on the level that I do. I've been wondering if there's a correlation for awhile now. Interesting that this popped up on HN and pulled me out of lurk mode.
- contrarian1234 1y ago
  Has nothing to do with anxiety or depression Multitasking is just a "personality trait".. and predominantly women are more able to multitask than men. You should simply ask around and see the correlations. Some of the happiest people I know can't multitask at all
  - bonki 1y ago
    I don't want this to sound derogatory but my experience is that simpler minds are generally happier in life, and I'd guess that this often (not always) comes with an inability to multitask, so I believe you are right. I had a friend in school (great dude, very grounded and happy person) who couldn't eat ice cream and walk at the same time (I swear I'm not making this up).
    - contrarian1234 1y ago
      I've found the exact opposite. More intelligent people can't multitask. But they generally can think about things more deeply. People that can multitask literally are constantly thinking about several things at the same time.
saalweachter 1y ago
Consider, though, one of the unique aspects of crochet or knitting -- you can fuck things up and it's not a big deal. Unlike woodworking or sewing, where once something is cut it cannot be uncut, with these crafts if you zone out while watching Wheel of Fortune and do a few rows wrong, you can always just ... undo it and try again. Nothing is lost but your time, and if you are doing it to relax while watching TV, you haven't really lost anything at all.
JHonaker 1y ago
> I'm so slow it takes too much time for me to not think that it's a waste of time because I could have done something more meaningful instead. That's the funny thing about the idea of meaningful things. It is solely determined by what you think is meaningful. Personally, just sitting and making something is an extremely meaningful activity to me.
rideontime 1y ago
Until you're more experienced, listen to music or something else where it's okay if you take your focus off of it to focus on counting your stitches. Yes, it won't be "productive," but your crocheting is already productive.
munificent 1y ago
> And because I'm so slow it takes too much time for me to not think that it's a waste of time because I could have done something more meaningful instead. I struggle with this too, especially because knitting is so slow and I'm in the unusual but fortunate position of having my other hobby (writing a couple of books) clearly having had much more impact. There's a part of my brain when I knit that's like, "You know if you spent this hour working on another book, it would leave a bigger mark in the world." But I also know that part of that impulse is unhealthy. I wrote those books for a lot reasons, many of which were good. But some of that drive did come from a sense that I'm not enough just being me and I need to be making something of value for as many people as possible to consider myself worthy. I'm trying to grow out of that mindset and accept myself just as I am. So I consider time spent knitting as sort of exposure therapy for getting used to the idea that I deserve to take time for my selfish joys.
mbonnet 1y ago
While I agree with you, I don't think that "mastering" crocheting takes very long at all. Maybe two weeks of an hour a day - MUCH less than knitting.

igvadaimon 1y ago

Consider climbing!

jader201 1y ago

Related: Why is everybody knitting chickens? 172 points, 122 comments (5 days ago) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44108139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44108139

telesilla 1y ago
My mother, a knitter for many decades, says to me about this - >They are comfort chickens, good for cuddles for those going thru breast cancer treatment. A nice shape to hold, I understand. You might have to learn to knit..
munificent 1y ago
Yup! That's the article that gave me the nudge to finally write this post.

safety1st 1y ago

Yep! Any type of desk/knowledge work job tends to be more cerebral and less... Sensory. If you have this type of job, any sort of hobby that unlocks the senses can be very rewarding and add balance to your life. For me it's lifting weights and singing.

Finnucane 1y ago
When our work is looking at screens, our games are looking at screens, our entertainment is looking at screens, etc., getting away from that and doing something that doesn't involve screens is refreshing.

petesergeant 1y ago

While I'm very open-minded to knitting, also consider picking up a musical instrument. Guitar, ukulele, keyboard. There are apps that'll teach you, and it's immensely gratifying -- if like me you obsess over certain songs -- to then be able to work towards playing those.

smackeyacky 1y ago
No better time in history to learn guitar. Amazing online resources, the world is flooded with cheap guitars as well if you’re happy with 2nd hand. There is a technical side to it (tuning, restringing) and plenty of toys, pedals and computer integration to any nerd hearts content. Even if you get stuck at 3 chords it’s amazing the number of pop songs you can suddenly play. Plus if you get past there you still have classical, jazz or whatever super hard path you want to travel to explore.
- lemonberry 1y ago
  Agreed. I picked up mine about a year ago after not playing for years. The resources are incredible. Super fun time to be playing.
- lemming 1y ago
  Do you have any recommendations for online resources? A few years ago my wife and I started with Justin guitar, but then we switched to piano to tempt our daughter. Is that a good choice, or are there better options?
  - petesergeant 1y ago
    I (op) restarted guitar recently, and Justin Guitar definitely seemed to be the internet's recommendation. I found it to be OK! The content is good but the app was a bit janky. I switched to online Zoom classes. Two people I know have used Simply Piano (and there's a guitar version of the same app) and swear by it, so probably also worth a look.
- criddell 1y ago

zavec 1y ago

Fiber arts are great! Just finished crocheting an amigurumi Ferris (from rust), immensely satisfying.

sergioisidoro 1y ago

The thing knitting taught me is that you can have something beautiful and useful even tho literally every part of the piece is a single point of failure. No redundancy, no backstop. If any of the stitches gets cut, the entire piece can unravel completely. We're so used to redundancy, but sometimes you just need to get things done, and it's ok if it's all a deck of cards.

n4r9 1y ago
> it's ok if it's all a deck of cards The idiom you're looking for may be "house of cards": https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/house+of+cards https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/house+of+cards
- croisillon 1y ago
  after that comment i hope he gets his deck in order
kzrdude 1y ago
At least the yarn has more han one strand. It's redundant at some level :)
al_borland 1y ago
When I visited Sweden I stumbled across nålebinding. It predates knitting and crochet, and from what I read, it didn’t suffer from this issue of unraveling. Though I think that is a double edged sword, as it also means it’s hard to go back and fix a mistake if one is made.
bregma 1y ago
It depends on your medium. A good wool has little hooks along the shaft of its staple so once knit the yarn will cling. Cutting a single stitch will not cause a loss of coherency. In fact, a classic knitting technique for crafting something like a cardigan made with wool involves knitting in the round (making a spiral tube, essentially) and then slicing it open for the button band and sleeves. It's called "steeking".
1y ago

Gigachad 1y ago

I started making cosplay accessories and custom plushies for furries. There’s almost an unlimited range of stuff to make. 3D printed glasses, oversized beanies, custom bags, etc. Feels very satisfying to make a physical thing and hand it over to the buyer.

KurSix 1y ago
There's something uniquely satisfying about making something weirdly specific that only exists because you made it
- Gigachad 1y ago
  100%. There’s quite a few things I’ve got now which would be thousands of dollars to have someone else make for me but cost very little to make myself. Just requiring a few weekends of work. Stuff that feels quite luxury to own.
  - zavec 1y ago
    This sounds interesting! Are you able to share any specifics, or would that be too personal?
    - Gigachad 1y ago
      I wanted a custom kigurumi like these[1] but didn’t want to fork over thousands of dollars for one. Ended up buying a sewing machine and fleece, learning to sew while making it. Was a bit of a brutal first project but after about 2 months off and on work in my free time I was able to complete it. Was then able to make 5 more of them for friends. The later ones were significantly easier. Also made myself a custom plushie which would have cost around $1000AUD had I commissioned someone to make it. After doing it all, I can say, yeah the prices actually are fair if you need to actually make a living off it, but also you can just do it yourself with a $300 sewing machine and some determination. [1] https://www.curlworks.net/kigurumi https://www.curlworks.net/kigurumi
  - 1y ago

KurSix 1y ago

I'm more of a cross-stitch person myself, but the feelings really resonated, especially that craving for tactile, analog creation after spending all day in the digital ether. There's something incredibly grounding about watching a piece come together, stitch by stitch, knowing your hands made it real.

tiniuclx 1y ago

The point about being disconnected with tactile sensation is very poignant. I've experimented with crafts before, but my go-to hobby has always been music - stringed instruments like the guitar. There's something very rewarding about the instant feedback you get when you fret down a string, and how much nuance you can get out of the smallest movements of your hands.

agumonkey 1y ago
Indeed, the subtlety of musical instrument is so special. ps: And then there's playing with other people, the lock-in is one of the few near esoteric experience I experienced, but I digressed.
Cthulhu_ 1y ago
Likewise with physical instruments vs digital; it's very tempting for someone working in tech to stay there and use a DAW and the like, but a physical instrument has so much more depth. I've got a bodhrán which on the surface is one of the simplest instruments, but the variety of sounds you can get out of it is really stimulating (depending on where you hit it, how, how hard, how fast, how you hold it, where / whether you press your hand, etc). And it's living, depending on temperature, humidity, how long you've handled it, etc the sound changes.

pingou 1y ago

Shameful plug, made an app to learn knitting called Knitting Genius https://apps.apple.com/us/app/knitting-genius-knit-easy/id1318598164 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/knitting-genius-knit-easy/id13... Indeed knitting is not so much different from programming and you have the whole touch aspect that is very pleasing.

davidwilliammr 1y ago

The idea of sitting and quietly knitting is appealing but whenever I look at knitted goods I think there's no way I would spend hours making some rubbish tea towel/sweater etc

benchly 1y ago
Scarves and hats are useful, though. Knit sweaters can be very comfortable and look good, if done well. Granted, I say that as a person who lives in a cold-half-the-year climate, but my point is that, just like coders, there's plenty of shitty knitters out there. The key with any skill is to approach it as a student, ready to improve. If this is something you wanted to try, get ready to make a few rubbish tea towels before you refine your understanding.
cousin_it 1y ago
Yeah. It's similar with origami, very fun to make, but the end result looks unescapably like "something someone made", not a fully cooked "thing". Some musical styles also feel that way, jazz most notably. Wonder if there are any books or articles analyzing this fully cooked / not fully cooked feeling.
rkangel 1y ago
For myself, I mostly knit a lot of socks. Padding around the house in winter, in woollen socks that I have made myself is very satisfying.
munificent 1y ago
That's fair. If I didn't live in the Pacific Northwest where scarves and hats are eminently useful and part of the local style, I'd probably be less interested. But, also, I've found my tastes changed some as I got into knitting. There's a sort of "see through the Matrix" effect where as I learned more about knitting, I could see things about what other people are wearing that I didn't notice before. I can often tell when someone is wearing a hand-knitted garment and every now and then even notice what yarn or pattern it is. That makes knitted clothing and accessories more interesting to see and then more interesting for myself to wear: I'm not sending a signal to other knitters about who I am. But if I still lived on the Gulf Coast where it's hot all the time? Yeah, probably not knitting as much.

jvanderbot 1y ago

I find woodworking fun for basically all the same reasons. Plus there's still the math of adding up things to predict cut layouts, and you end up with a new shelf or box or table. I'm not sure I would use anything I knitted.

treszkai 1y ago
I also found woodworking recently as a software engineer and it's incredibly rewarding. Both the tactile feeling of the activity, the idea of building something that _exists_ in physical form and exists in your or a loved one's home, and the pride that you feel about a finished product and having overcome challenges and learned something. Unlike knitting, I love its usefulness. There are so only many use cases for knitwear, but furniture, man, everyone needs furniture. And being in a home that I built by my two hands is infinite joy. The three aspects where it falls short to knitting: - It can't be done mindlessly. It would be unsafe and you'd make costly mistakes that you can't undo by pulling on the yarn. - It's more expensive. The materials are a bit more pricy (compared to hours spent on working them), but the machines certainly are. - You are confined to space and time. Whether it's your garage or wood shop where you have machines and can make noise and dust, or it's your living room where you exclusively use hand tools – you surely can't do it in your car while waiting for the kids, or at the university, or on the public transport. Whittling small objects is the one exception. But yes, woodworking is awesome.
- munificent 1y ago
  Agree on all accounts. I very much enjoy the limited woodworking I've done, but the logistics are much trickier than knitting. I do find whittling to be an interesting middle point. Like knitting, you don't need a dedicated workshop. It doesn't take a lot of set up and tear down for a given session. You can fit the project and tools in a small space. Of course, you're shedding wood chips the whole time, so you can't really whittle on the couch. And you sure as hell can't do it on an airplane. But you can do it when, say, camping with friends, or sitting on the back porch when it's nice out.
bonki 1y ago
I find woodworking extremely alluring. I'd love to do woodworking, but that requires space for an environment which I don't have. I like to think that in a parallel universe I build guitars and restore old wooden furniture.

somewhereoutth 1y ago

Knitting was a hipster thing in London (and elsewhere most likely) for about 6 months back in the dark days of peak hipsterism (2000-2010?). It takes rather a lot of time and effort, so I guess they got bored of it pretty quick.

d--b 1y ago

As an engineer you might also create your very own punch-card programmable Jacquard loom. It kind of defeats the meditation thing though :-)

voidUpdate 1y ago

In the same vein, I've been enjoying making plushies recently, when my body allows me to. You end up with something you made yourself, even if it sometimes looks a bit skrunkly, and they're great gifts (for my friend group anyway, which mostly consists of trans girls that need more plushies in their lives)

zavec 1y ago
I can't believe I never thought of trying to crochet a blahaj until just now
- voidUpdate 1y ago
  That's a great idea, I took apart a sacrifical blahaj and created patterns from all the panels so I could make my own. They came out a little skrunkly though, I used fabric that was a lot stretchier than I expected

lukaslalinsky 1y ago

If you live in a climate with at least somewhat cold winters, I'd highly recommend starting with a hat. It's a simple project, but you can already incorporate some patterns, there are millions guides online and if you use real wool, you end up with something really comfy, warm and most importantly practical.

padraigfl 1y ago

One I do occasionally that I feel like gets a great mid point between the passiveness of knitting and more thoroughly engaged effort of things like woodworking has been making pop up cards. I seem to have an intuitive competency at it but the combination of figuring out the layout, getting the measurements down and preparing the materials (I'll usually use basic card and style the individual pieces of card to match what I need e.g. making a card of floor-boarding for the wooden floor base) gives a huge amount of repetitive work that can be done while watching something. The obvious next step is to invest time getting into origami so I can do more complex layouts.

rkangel 1y ago

This article misses a point that I really like knitting - that it is a lot like executing software. There are a small number of knitting techniques - knit, purl, a few increases and decreases etc. Knitting patterns give you sequences to apply these primitives and at the end you have a complex, useful item, potentially in 3D. You're doing a few simple things repeatedly and you end up with complex behaviour. That's a CPU!

munificent 1y ago
I thought about discussing the connection between knitting and programming. You're exactly right that following a pattern is exactly like being a human virtual machine for a tiny programming language. There is something delightful about that. At the same time, I don't knit because it reminds me of programming. If I want to scratch the programming itch, I'll program. So I ended up not mentioning it in the article, but there's definitely an overlap.

kijowski 1y ago

[dead]

twoquestions 1y ago

Hardest possible concur with everything OP said. Knitting and other fiber arts are the grandmother of computer programming, and I'd go so far as to say your CS education is incomplete without at least passing knowledge of fabric weaving and especially weaving machine history. Ignorance is not your fault, unfortunately they can't teach you everything in college, and people tend to downplay the importance and history of "women's work", much to all our detriment. https://www.scienceandindustrymuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/jacquard-loom https://www.scienceandindustrymuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stor...

nonethewiser 1y ago
>I'd go so far as to say your CS education is incomplete without at least passing knowledge of fabric weaving Why?
- timerol 1y ago
  The first programmable computer, using punchcards, was a loom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_machine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_machine
  - nmeofthestate 1y ago
    I'm going to go ahead and say that you can have a complete CS education without studying fabric looms.
    - johnfn 1y ago
      You won't have a full and comprehensive education as an author without spending a few months copying texts by hand in a scriptorium like monks did back in the 500s.
mbonnet 1y ago
Hard agree. I'm not even that much of a fiber artist - I can crochet, and I can weave shepherd's slings out of plant fiber/paracord/other strings. But I believe the thinking patterns help me, especially in large-but-not-complex systems thinking.

Anthony-G 1y ago

Back in the mid-90s, I asked my mother to teach me how to knit. Like many women of their time, both she and her mother were skilled at Aran knitting¹ and I was always impressed at the complex patterns that could be created from a length of yarn with two knitting needles – or three for the more complicated stitches. Even though this was the 90s and mindfulness wasn’t something anyone would have heard of in rural Ireland, it served the same function for me. I knitted an Aran scarf and a jumper (sweater in American) but didn’t actually wear either of them so I eventually gave it up as a hobby. Regardless, I think it’s important for those of us who work using computers to have hobbies where you get away from the screens and use your hands in a tactile way – ideally to make something. Cooking, baking and bread-making are things that almost anyone can do. We all have to eat and it’s great to be able to share what you’ve made with others (I find the best hobbies also have some degree of social interaction). When I cycled and mountain-biked, I used to do all my own bike maintenance and built my own wheels; I got a lot of satisfaction from building a perfectly balanced wheel. I also did a wood-work course and would have liked to have kept it up but I live in a small house without the space for a work-bench and tools. More recently, during Covid, I started to learn guitar. Even though it doesn’t come naturally and progress happens at a very slow pace, I get a lot of enjoyment from it. My goal is to get good enough that I feel confident jamming/playing with other friends who are amateur musicians. ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aran_knitting_patterns https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aran_knitting_patterns

deedree 1y ago
How do you built your own wheels? Isn’t that super hard without industrial tools? Sincere question.
- Someone 1y ago
  Putting a rim, hub (possibly in parts) and spokes together is (rightfully) called “wheel building” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelbuilding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheelbuilding). I guess that’s what they did.
- ics 1y ago
  Wheelbuilding in this case uses "building" to convey the measurement and adjustment required to assemble parts of the wheel. Building from parts, not from scratch materials. https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html https://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

eilccn 1y ago

I would knit all the time and alternate with coding while working remotely. I found that doing something tactile was very helpful for giving my mind a break while working through problems or waiting for things to build/compile. Now I’m in office and kind of embarrassed to bring a knitting project.

mlinhares 1y ago
I cook to fill the same gap, having to do something with your hands definitely helps me.

someone7x 1y ago

Read to the end and did a double-take: that's the game programming patterns guy! He has a voice I enjoy and I'm glad I got the chance to read this.

munificent 1y ago

Author here. You can thank nosecreek for prompting me to write this up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44137085 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44137085 :)

dunham 1y ago
Thanks. This has been on my todo list for a while. I've ordered some supplies and will attempt a dishcloth (https://nimble-needles.com/patterns/easy-dishcloth-knitting-pattern/ https://nimble-needles.com/patterns/easy-dishcloth-knitting-...) and work my way up from there.
- munificent 1y ago
  A dishcloth is a great place to start, and I've learned ~90% of my knitting from Norman. He's great. I will caution you that cotton yarn is definitely not the easiest yarn to start with. It has very little stretch which makes it hard to keep good tension and form stitches. Not impossible, just sort of difficult. It's very much like learning to play guitar starting with an acoustic compared to an electric. Everything is a little stiffer and requires a little more finger strength. So if you feel like it's more difficult than you expected, it may partially be because of the yarn.
  - dunham 1y ago
    I was impatient waiting for supplies and did a practice swatch with some cheap cotton string and take-out chopsticks (round, pointed, but not as sharp as knitting needles). That was more difficult than the real deal. There were mistakes making the actual project, occasional extra loops that I eliminated by knitting or pearling two at once in the next row (wherever I thought it was a good spot). And I think I did a row K3, P2K2, K3 instead of K3, K2P2, K3. Some rows were off by one because of the occasional extra loop. (I should have been reading the previous row.) https://imgur.com/a/ljHNNri https://imgur.com/a/ljHNNri It has already been repurposed as a blanket for my five year old's stuffed shark. (She now wants a glove because all I have to do is "make one for each side".)

criddell 1y ago

> Because regardless of how good the object itself is, it is an inarguable testament to the fact that I chose to spend dozens of quiet hours making stitch after stitch, all the while thinking about her and how much she means to me. A fraction of my life’s wick that I burned for her and no one else. That's lovely. When I moved to Portland in 2004, we went to the bank (Umpqua) to open accounts and found out that they have a knitting group at the bank every week. It was so weird and felt very Portland. Anyway, loved the post but I do have one question: how do you make coffee?

munificent 1y ago
Haha, good question. I have tried: * French press. Makes great coffee easily (but not super quickly), but the clean-up is a huge hassle and makes the total iteration time not worth it. I gave up on this quickly. * Aeropress. Makes good coffee and the clean-up isn't too bad. Pretty quick and not too fiddly to do. I did this for a couple of years. * Mr. Coffee drip coffee. Makes mediocre coffee very easily, pretty quickly, and with fairly easy clean-up. I did it this way for several years, but the coffee gradually got worse and worse. I tried cleaning it out with vinegar a few times but eventually ditched it. * Pour-over. Very simple, fast clean-up. Can make good coffee but it took me many iterations to dial in the parameters and making it was always fiddly and somewhat mentally taxing. I don't particularly like the fresh and fruity flavor that pour-over leans towards, otherwise I might have stuck with this. * Keurig. I hate the old DRM-based business model, but now they have reusable K-cups and take regular coffee. This is what I do now. The coffee is only mediocre, but it is very fast. Faster than microwaving a cup of hot water. Like wizardry. The clean-up is very simple and fast. I think I prefer the coffee from an Aeropress more, but the convenience of the Keurig is hard to beat. Really, I just need a tolerable unit of caffeine first thing in the morning in order to be a functioning human.
- deleted 1y ago
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- tonyarkles 1y ago
  > I think I prefer the coffee from an Aeropress more, but the convenience of the Keurig is hard to beat. I do dirty field work a fair bit. Large drone test flight campaigns in the middle of nowhere for a week at a time. I've got an Aeropress Go with the stainless filter, a hand grinder, and a small electric kettle that I keep in my suitcase. I'll usually grab a bag of locally-sourced beans. Man oh man has that little kit ever brought a lot of joy into the world. When someone seems like they're starting to burn out I'll make them a fresh ground cup of coffee and you can just see their eyes light up when they take that first sip. Such a wonderful piece of plastic made by a frisbee company :D

ergonaught 1y ago

My mom taught me how to crochet when I was a young boy and every now and then I still get out the yarn and pass some time. Even without attempting to make anything specific, it's quite engaging while simultaneously relaxing.

kdamica 1y ago

This is much less complex but I'm a 40 year old guy who recently took up sock darning. I'm not very good at it yet but the repairs are good enough and it's nice not to throw out otherwise good socks.

trashface 1y ago

Programmers (and other full time computer users) should be careful with this and similar yarn-based hobbies. I gave myself an apparently permanent RSI issue in my shoulder from knitting with bad technique (had too much tension in my yarn I think). I learned from you tube videos, a human probably could have told me I was doing it wrong but I didn't ask anyone. The injury does affect my computer use, when it gets real bad I have to switch my mouse pad to the other side of my desk. I haven't knitted in years and its still there.

einpoklum 1y ago

That post would really have benefitted from some photos. It is quite the challenge to talk about knitting, and patterns, and materials, so abstractly.

munificent 1y ago
I meant to do that, but didn't get around to it. I haven't been writing much the past couple of years for a number of reasons and I'm trying to get back into that habit. Part of that is lowering the effort required to get a post out, so I decided to not bother with adding photos even though I agree it would be better with them. Maybe I'll go back and add some if I find the time.

avg_dev 1y ago

I really enjoyed this article. I liked what the person had to say about “care” especially, and the sort of crappy scarf that his mother-in-law still loved.

atribecalledqst 1y ago

My girlfriend has been getting into crocheting recently, and I've been learning a lot about it and craft stuff in general. I've always been a computer guy... I'm bad with my hands. Could never do origami. Part of the reason I dropped out of Boy Scouts was I didn't want to learn how to make knots. I was terrible in art class, I can't draw and I honestly have trouble just visualizing things (I was not great in geometry either). It's difficult for me to be creative like that. So that's my background, lol. I could play music (and that's a hobby I still want to pursue), but lately I've been wondering if there was a craft that was better for people like me. Like, I got these cute handmade plushies as a gift recently, and I want to do something like that. (honestly it seems like crocheting and knitting might not be bad options, but just wondering what else is out there!) e; one thing I've considered is making something with electronics (I know enough about circuits to be dangerous), but the thing you run into quickly is you don't really want to just give somebody a circuit board, lol. At some point, it seems like all the interesting projects move towards 3D printing which I find intimidating.

qiine 1y ago
building complicated lego set could be an interesting start.
yoyohello13 1y ago
I've found painting mini's (like Warhammer) to be really fun. You get the structure of the model to work from, but you get a creative outlet with the painting. There is a ton of painting technique to work on and learn, and you get a game to play for extra motivation. Plus at the end of the day you have a nice display piece to look at for the shelf.

softbuilder 1y ago

This is great. I picked up weaving right before the pandemic and it carried me through. I've fallen off the past few years but hope to get back to it. Like any hobby it has the "I could do X if only I had a Y!" feature/curse that can potentially eat your bank account.

coolThingsFirst 1y ago

Just no, programmers need something categorically different. Trekking, bicycle riding, gardening, are all nice hobbies. But I don't take my advice as well, my hobbies are reading(kindle), games etc. So both work and hobbies are in front of computer. Don't recommend it.

Taikonerd 1y ago

I feel like HN really wants me to knit ;-) I was already considering taking knitting lessons because of this comment thread[0] from a week ago. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44128576 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44128576 p.s. Oh, I just realized that "munificent", who posted the top-level comment in that thread, is also the author of this article.

x62Bh7948f 1y ago

>I got into knitting a few years after the pandemic. So very recently?

olejorgenb 1y ago

Assoc: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ncoMYGFXmEs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ncoMYGFXmEs (fabric in general, but contain some cool animations of knitting)