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Sometimes I wish we could have "gentlemen's clubs" of the sort that existed in Victorian Britain (not the US strip club version), third-spaces where one could g
by Telemakhos 1y ago
Sometimes I wish we could have "gentlemen's clubs" of the sort that existed in Victorian Britain (not the US strip club version), third-spaces where one could go to read or converse or play cards with other men or even have a meal or a drink. Having social space that's limited to a set of people one knows, more or less, and that has rules on behavior seems like a civilizing influence that's missing today.
- Plasmoid 1y agoThose still exist but often have very high membership fees. Thousands per year plus minimum spend amounts
- nswizzle31 1y agoThat is the exact long-term vision. Isn't that the absolute dream? Have to start a bit decentralized but I would love to eventually get a physical location to have that important third-space.
- throwaway81523 1y agoHacker spaces are sort of like that, it seems to me.
- robotguy 1y agoI am very sad that my local hackerspace seems to eschew any of the social aspects and focuses (at least outwardly from what I can see) solely on entrepreneurship.
- systemswizard 1y agoThese places exist but are usually financially prohibitive for most people, and that’s even if they meet whatever requirements they have to join
- lolinder 1y agoTo be fair to our modern world this is how the Victorian gentleman's clubs were too—it's even in the name. If you weren't a gentleman you had the pub.
- joshvm 1y agoThey exist at either end of the class spectrum. Working Men's Clubs used to be very common around the UK and many still exist. The one near my childhood home is Victorian-era and was recently refurbished. As long as I can remember it had frosted windows. That's now gone and it's been rebranded it as a family-friendly event space. It's basically a member subsidized pub and your drinks should cost less. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_men%27s_club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_men%27s_club
- brightball 1y agoThat’s what country clubs have mostly been for decades. Makes me want to find the time to take up golf.
- klooney 1y agoI feel like our culture has a strong anti-golf bias. Now that I'm older, any reason to spend a couple hours outside with my friends sounds amazing.
- vineyardmike 1y ago> I feel like our culture has a strong anti-golf bias Golf, generally, is pretty expensive. It's like minimum $50 for an outing, you need equipment, correct clothes, etc. Some places require membership, often priced intentionally exclusively. It's pretty natural for something exclusionary to get a negative cultural bias. Oh, and it is a terrible resource hog. You can't fit many people on a golf course at any given time without disrupting gameplay, and all that grass requires a lot of water and maintenance. > any reason to spend a couple hours outside with my friends sounds amazing This is, of course, available in many forms that don't involve hitting balls with sticks, but also there are many varieties of ball+stick that satisfy this. Golfing is an artificial competitive activity that exists in an artificial and manicured version of nature. There is nothing wrong with it if you like the activity, but you can just go for a hike or stroll in a park if you want to be with friends outside.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- curmudgeon22 1y agoCheck out disc golf!
- lambdaphagy 1y agoJapanese tea gardens are pretty artificial and manicured, and they’re awesome. It’s great to have undespoiled natural beauty, and it’s also cool to see what people can do with a landscape.
- emseetech 1y agoI recommend everyone watch the series Lodge 49. It's free to watch with ads now. Not only is a great show that touches on relationships and loneliness and modern alienation with a touch of magical realism and esoterica and alchemy but it focuses on a fraternal (in name only, women are members) order that your grandfather might have been a member of but have disappeared due to rising individualism, rising rents and displacement. But there's no reason we couldn't start building them again. Not high end exclusive clubs like Soho House but just a place with books and a reasonable membership fee and a bar with cheap drinks for added revenue and occasional "open to the public" events. There could be ones for software devs, ones focused on philosophy or great literature, ones for musicians or artists. I've run the back-of-a-napkin numbers and even in expensive cities it doesn't seem impossible if your goal is to just break even and foster a community. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2p1osv0jj8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2p1osv0jj8
- dkkergoog 1y ago[dead]
- ed 1y agoI loved lodge 49. It inspired me to attend a welcome dinner at my local freemason lodge. Sadly I discovered first hand why membership is declining (this lodge was a magnet for socially inept conspiracy theorists).
- ks2048 1y ago> It's free to watch with ads now. Where? I searched and didn't see any where free.
- fny 1y agoI’ve often wondered what a contemporary free mason movement could be. I know they’re still around but their whole system is wildly arcane.
- Disposal8433 1y agoFreemasonry cannot be modern by definition, but the closest would be liberal Freemasonry where the main rules are 1. Work on yourself with the help of your brothers and sisters (a bit like zen Buddhism), and 2. Apply the rules of Freemasonry in the outside world (mainly don't be an asshole).
- anshumankmr 1y agothe closest thing we have to that where i am are run clubs but they are now dangerously close to dating clubs
- wkat4242 1y agoThose clubs still exist in London but they're just for the elite to make shady backroom deals with their rich buddies :) They're really exclusive and they always have been. You and I would not get in, not now and not in the Victorian days. Even 'new money' is usually not ok. You really have to have gone to the right school and have the right family.
- Veen 1y agoThe working class used to have working men’s clubs, but they no longer serve the same purpose.
- wkat4242 1y agoAh I see, I misread that. I wasn't aware of those. Thanks!
- didsomeonesay 1y agoWhich new purpose do you allude to?
- swarnie 1y agoOnly a guess but they all dropped the "working" and "men" requirements. The latest incarnation was "Men in Sheds" which eventually got the traditional treatment - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg5qd9l3094o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg5qd9l3094o
- wkat4242 1y agoHmm yes I've seen men's sheds but they weren't actually men exclusive and very topical to making stuff. A bit like a makerspace but less focused on tech and more on woodworking.
- moritonal 1y agoJust to challenge that slightly. There is a range of clubs, some are honestly very easy to get into if you end up there for some work event and talk to at least two people. It's the ability to socialize, and lack of clubs focused on new industries that's made them elusive to the new-money (There isn't a National Software Club for example). I'll also knowledge most would run about £1-2k a quarter which is restrictive (by design) cost.
- rchaud 1y ago> Having social space that's limited to a set of people one knows, more or less, and that has rules on behavior seems like a civilizing influence that's missing today. You just described a country club, right down to the innate classism and exclusivity rules.
- BurningFrog 1y agoAre male only country clubs legal?
- Slava_Propanei 1y ago[dead]
- rchaud 1y agoNo, but just like everywhere else, you can engineer a byzantine set of hoops to jump through so that the only people who "qualify" end up being the "preferred" sort of clientele.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- chasebank 1y agoProbably not, but the country clubs where I live all have men's locker rooms that have full bars, poker tables, and lounge areas with big screen tv's.
- Simulacra 1y agoThey may not be able to call themselves male only, but there are many private organizations that are all men. The Augusta national golf course was one for a long time
- superb_dev 1y agoI have to ask, is the locker room clubhouse clothing optional?
- Animats 1y agoThere's the Mechanics Institute Library in San Francisco. I used to be a member. If you want to see people sitting around in wing-backed chairs, half asleep, that's the place to go. It's quite a good library, too.
- mitthrowaway2 1y agoYou're not supposed to talk in a library, so it's explicitly not a social space.
- eesmith 1y agoMy local library has both quiet areas and social areas, including meeting spaces. There are weekly social events for knitting, second-language practice, seniors, and more. High school kids go there to work on class projects together, just like I did at the library when I was a teenager.
- Animats 1y agoAnd the Mechanics Institute librarians will shush people for talking.
- chgs 1y agoOf course you are. The stereotype of the librarian saying “which” is decades out of date.
- aspenmayer 1y agoBack in the day I would just go to Noisebridge and see what others were working on. Is that place still worth going to today? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noisebridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noisebridge
- dcsan 1y agothey had to move off mission around the corner to a backstreet, so there are less mission vagrant rogues trying to sneak in now, and still the hardcore of interesting people. when i first moved back to the city from overseas, noisebridge was an awesome third place to hang out and hack on stuff while meeting regulars.
- skort 1y agoHow about just more third-spaces without the classist gatekeeping?
- lambdaphagy 1y agoWhat's classist about having behavioral rules?
- rchaud 1y agoWhat sort of behaviors are you referring to?
- lambdaphagy 1y agoI wasn’t the one referring to behaviors. But I bet a social club that rigorously enforced the rules of Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood would be more popular than anything goes.
- nothercastle 1y ago[flagged]
- adfm 1y ago[flagged]
- chgs 1y agoI believe their point was if you don’t have rules you get nazis
- lazyasciiart 1y agoI don't think 'class' is a nazi barrier, at any level.
- barry-cotter 1y agoYou can but then you need some other way to gatekeep because a community of trust has to have an inside and an outside. Someone needs to keep people who don’t belong out, for whatever value of “don’t belong” you want to build a community around.
- erikerikson 1y agoCognitive habit problems aside, this is one of the primary provisions of churches/temples/et cetera. Frequently featuring gender divided activities.
- monocularvision 1y agoI realize that it is silly to tell non-believers to go to church to fix their problems but it’s funny how often people talk about place or group or organization that seems to be missing in society that was fulfilled by houses of worship in the past.
- anal_reactor 1y agoThat's true, but pretty much every religion beyond certain size focuses on growth and power at all costs, and treats the social function as a sidequest. I hate religion exactly because I see what it does to people's brains. Parents abandon their children "because priest told me to do so".
- chgs 1y agoSame with any business. Fewer people seem devoted to a specific business though.
- fellowniusmonk 1y agoI co-ran a co-working space that focused on relationships, it's really powerful to have spaces that allow introverts a zero effort socializing experience. We also threw open to the public art shows and parties with drink sponsorships and everything. What's better than a church environment? A "city gates" environment. I am not part of the church any longer, a properly run co-working space, not one that tried to emulate soul less corporate America, gives space for the wealthy tech bro and the poor artist to have multi round interaction that both build trust and provide implicit (and sometimes explicit) accountability. Most of us operate in environments where, outside of family and work there is nothing of value to lose, and churches and other places that exhibit ideological ratchet effects aren't great. The city gates, that's really the best place to be, we far outpunched our startup weight in the city we were in because we built trust more than anything. I come from a missionary family that has probably planted more churches by number than any other group, one family far outstripping many mission agencies. That experience and family knowledge was absolutely critical to making what we did work. But in the U.S. I don't think anyone is interested in funding a 3rd places startup, it's sad that the same people who will talk about the power of 100 true fans don't get the power of 100 people in true community and the way that opens up thousands of paths for people to try things they otherwise wouldn't be able to.
- pomian 1y agoI think you should start one!
- chinchilla2020 1y agoThey sort of exist and do have women in them - but there are tons of tons of men you can meet with. Sports clubs are full of friends you can make. I'm close with alot of guys that I train with. Try tennis, or lifting, or running, or golf. Do NOT go to DnD meetups and other low effort stuff. Exertion is what forms bonds.
- achow 1y agoA billion dollar company started with this idea. Schultz envisioned Starbucks as a “third place” between home and work, fostering community and connection. https://mulcahyconsultants.com/2023/12/14/howard-schultz-and-the-starbucks-empire-a-detailed-journey-from-childhood-to-global-success/ https://mulcahyconsultants.com/2023/12/14/howard-schultz-and...
- jonny_eh 1y agoMy local one removed all its seats and is now take out only.
- lotsofpulp 1y agoThere is just too much liability, both legal and public relations wise, with operating cheap third places. https://apnews.com/article/starbucks-racism-philadelphia-manager-lawsuit-bfa9cd9a897dff402f8547f167455d10 https://apnews.com/article/starbucks-racism-philadelphia-man...
- chgs 1y agoIn the U.K. there were lots of their places before American style capitalism invaded. Coffee houses predate America as a whole - on both sides of the Atlantic.
- djdeutschebahn 1y agoWhats the difference of your definition to a pub? Also they may be limited and there may exist rules on behavior. At least you can/could play cards, converse with your fellows or some randoms.
- joshvm 1y ago> Whats the difference of your definition to a pub? CAMRA's definition includes "Is open to the public without membership or residency" and a bunch more that amount to "does not necessarily serve food" to distinguish from restaurants.
- pmc3 1y agoYou don't have to wish - these literally exist today, both in the US (see link below) and elsewhere. The problem is that they are expensive and hard to get in to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gentlemen%27s_clubs_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gentlemen%27s_clubs_in... NYC and London are both having a bit of a renaissance of new clubs being founded, although most of them are coed.
- SilverSlash 1y agoRemember watching the Lyon episode of Parts Unknown where Bourdain goes to a men's luncheon club. Looked real fun. Wish we had more of those.
- monkeydust 1y agohttps://eastindiaclub.co.uk/ https://eastindiaclub.co.uk/ is a famous one that exists to this date with some of the antiquated rules. Been a few times with a friend who is a member.
- throwaway_95283 1y agoIt's alive and well in south america. let the haters hate.
- KolibriFly 1y agoI think any modern version would need to be way more inclusive and not just in terms of gender, but also class and background. The old-school gentlemen's clubs had a pretty narrow membership by design
- phendrenad2 1y agoI agree. It doesn't take much to topple this idea. A few lawsuits over discrimination that the club is bankrupt.
- imp0cat 1y agoStart one! I personally love this concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkryT4nOwA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kkryT4nOwA - Michigan Automotive Relic Society
- ainiriand 1y agoFor me those were always local role playing associations, I was a member of 3 during my youth. Me and my brother would go there after school to play some board games or dungeons and dragons during the weekends.
- dugmartin 1y agoThese still exist in the US but the membership has plummeted. Some examples: - Freemasons - Odd Fellows - Fraternal Order of Eagles - Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks - Loyal Order of Moose We have an Eagle's "aerie" in my little town. It has a nice banquet hall area on the main floor and a member's only bar in the basement with pool tables and a deck that overlooks the river.