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>> There's a culture of indifference, an embrace of mediocrity. I don't think it's new, but I do think perhaps AI has given the lazy and prideless an even lower

>> There's a culture of indifference, an embrace of mediocrity. I don't think it's new, but I do think perhaps AI has given the lazy and prideless an even lower energy route to... I'm not sure. What is the goal? > I think pride in work has declined a lot (at least in the US) because so many large employers have shown that they aren't even willing to pretend to care about their employees. It's difficult to take pride in work done for an employee that you aren't proud of, or actively dislike. Also don't discount the pressure exerted by employers to explicitly encourage mediocrity. So often, there's a huge amount of pressure to implement a half-working kludge and never pursue a more appropriate/complete fix. IMHO, it's all due to the focus on short-term financial results and ever present budget pressures that encourage kicking the can down the road. If your employer is explicitly discouraging you from doing a good job, what are you supposed to do? Some people will resist, but they're definitely swimming against the current.

deadbabe 1y ago
Unfortunately it’s becoming more obvious that “short-term” is all we really have in this world. There is no long term. So why plan for long term? Life is a series of short-term wins until you finally die. Same with companies. Things change so fast now that you could be crushing it one year and going out of business the next. It’s not like old days where you could setup a blacksmithing shop and have business for generations. Results now are way better than results later.
- palmotea 1y ago
  > Unfortunately it’s becoming more obvious that “short-term” is all we really have in this world. There is no long term. That's definitely not true. It sounds like a rationalization for the existing bad and unwise behavior. > So why plan for long term? Life is a series of short-term wins until you finally die. So, dump the untreated toxic waste into the river, then? > Same with companies. Things change so fast now that you could be crushing it one year and going out of business the next. It’s not like old days where you could setup a blacksmithing shop and have business for generations. Maybe if you're in some startup, but that's not the usual case. > Results now are way better than results later. So be "very proud [for taking] home a salary for about two hours of work per day following up with contractors, then heading to the gym and making social plans."?
  - pixl97 1y ago
    >That's definitely not true. It sounds like a rationalization for the existing bad and unwise behavior. You seem to miss that companies that think quarter to quarter behave just like this. >So, dump the untreated toxic waste into the river, then? You mean like the current administration that's trying to get rid of the EPA?
    - palmotea 1y ago
      >> That's definitely not true. It sounds like a rationalization for the existing bad and unwise behavior. > You seem to miss that companies that think quarter to quarter behave just like this. Did I miss that, or was I commenting on that exact thing? >> So, dump the untreated toxic waste into the river, then? > You mean like the current administration that's trying to get rid of the EPA? What's your point with that political derail? It's honestly baffling.
      - yifanl 1y ago
        It's not just a political derail to bring up a highly-visible example of the described behaviour. People don't care if they aren't forced to care, and in a world driven by deadlines, we're only motivated to care a certain amount. There used to be an intrinsic motivator of "well, my kids are going to suffer if I don't push for long-term relationships", but now we aren't having kids, so that carrot doesn't work, and that attitude is bubbling up into the corporate world.
        UnreachableCode 1y ago
        >bring up a highly-visible example Sure, but let's be clear, we shouldn't be taking any lessons from the Trump regime on how to live in virtually any aspect in one's life. If anything they're a shining example of everything not to do.
- squigz 1y ago
  > Unfortunately it’s becoming more obvious that “short-term” is all we really have in this world. There is no long term. The opposite seems far more obvious to me. Short-term results aren't going to last. Planning for the long-term - whether that's a career, family, or whatever - is critical to a fulfilling and healthy life. > Results now are way better than results later. I don't see why you can't have both.
- adjfasn47573 1y ago
  I think your comment comes from a very specific point of view. Like software/tech jobs. (Even there you have long term stuff that we all would definitely benefit from). There are so many things where short-term only thinking is counter-productive. It swallows money, creates frustration and leaves an overall net-negative to society and the world. Just one example would be city planning. Repairing a road? What else is there like fiber cables, maybe some tram tracks, and so on, long term planning would be to acquire a holistic picture and to plan one timespan where everything is done fast but with quality. It’s a few months construction, after that everything is fine for years or even a few decades to come. But what you see instead is one part of the state that manages fiber cables doing there own thing, another part that manages street quality do their own thing. So the street has a construction site for a year (for just improving one part) then a few months nothing then another year of construction again, nothing, construction and soon you have over a decade of constant on and off construction work on this one street. Something that could’ve been done in 6-12 months once and be done, if planned correctly and with long term and holistic picture in mind. And this is just one example. The world is full of stuff like this. Short term might be a good thing for very specific types of projects, but I hard disagree that short term is overall better in any way. In my opinion this shortterm thinking is a huge negative factor of modern societies. Because not everything is a tech startup where things change super fast.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago
  Blessed are those who plant trees under whose shade they will never sit
  - abenga 1y ago
    I think they mean (to stretch the analogy), we are razing trees to build rapidly changing highways so much now that the tree you plant today may be chopped down in a couple of years through no fault of your own.
- pmg101 1y ago
  Not sure why you get down voted for this. Seems self evident that increasing pace of change of society tilts the rational strategy towards short-term over long-term gain. Do people disagree that the pace of change is increasing? Do people disagree that short termism is rationally appropriate in a highly changeable situation? Long term planning requires a stable backdrop. I agree with you.
WalterBright 1y ago
> it's all due to the focus on short-term financial results I've heard that my whole life. If that were generally true, company stocks would be going steadily downwards.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  GE [1]? Boeing [2] [3]? The stocks go up because management and shareholders pull forward the gains as financialization destroys the long term value of the enterprises. Works until it doesn't. [1] Power Failure: The downfall of General Electric - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44102034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44102034 - May 2025 [2] Fatal Recklessness at Boeing Traces Back to Long-Standing C-Suite Greed - https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/boeing-corporate-greed-airline-safety/ https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/boeing-corporate-... - April 9th, 2024 [3] HN Search: Boeing - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=boeing&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
  - WalterBright 1y ago
    Boeing consistently went up for many decades prior to the MAX crisis. So did GE. Companies have life cycles. They grow until they become unable to function efficiently anymore, then they go down. It's not about prioritizing short term results.
    - palmotea 1y ago
      >> GE [1]? Boeing [2] [3]? The stocks go up because management and shareholders pull forward the gains as financialization destroys the long term value of the enterprises. Works until it doesn't. > Boeing consistently went up for many decades prior to the MAX crisis. So did GE. The point is they could have probably kept going up if they hadn't done that. It's like how if you choose to eat your seed corn, you'll be fat and happy for a season, then you and your family will certainly starve to death next year. You'd most likely had lived if you hadn't made that short-term decision. > Companies have life cycles. They grow until they become unable to function efficiently anymore, then they go down. And how often are the "life cycles" really just the accumulation of bad short-term decisions catching up with the company? You can kludge and kludge and kludge, but eventually that makes the app unmaintainable. Then you're in "total rewrite" or go under territory.
const_cast 1y ago
Most workers have learned that going above and beyond almost always backfires. Employers don't value long-term employment relationships, so working hard just results in you raising the bar for yourself, with no benefit. A lot of these people were once starry-eyed highschoolers and college students who got burned too many times. They put in the time, the effort, the blood, sweat and tears, and what did they get? No thank you, just more work. Eventually they can't live up to the standard they themselves set, and they're let go. Meanwhile, bozos show up late and half-ass everything and then that becomes their expectation. Nobody wants to be Atlas.
- capyba 1y ago
  Dang, feeling this right now. Went above and beyond again and again, for years, barely got a thank you - let alone a raise of any sort. Now I’m completely burnt out and don’t have the energy to even consider my own ideas for my own next move.
  - MichaelZuo 1y ago
    Then why are you still there? People who’ve succeeded in tricking you… likely will do so again in the future. And maybe with even less scruples.
    - spwa4 1y ago
      That's an easy one - they're still paying ...
- thefringthing 1y ago
  > They put in the time, the effort, the blood, sweat and tears, and what did they get? No thank you, just more work. Don't be ridiculous. They got a pizza party and $20 gift card to a mall store.
bghooper 1y ago
[flagged]
sahilagarwal 1y ago
This perfectly illustrates why I've always preferred working at startups over major corps including FAANG / MANGA. There is a top down culture of not embracing mediocrity that genuinely makes me thrive at work. My current company has a good work life balance and if I make a point that some part of the system needs improvement, my voice actually gets heard. Only place I've seen where sprint retros actually made impact. Most of my friends have no work life balance and also don't have a voice when they see half-assed work. The numbers showcase the effect of this as well. The startup has thrived even when VC's have tightened their purses.

deadbabe 1y ago

Unfortunately it’s becoming more obvious that “short-term” is all we really have in this world. There is no long term. So why plan for long term? Life is a series of short-term wins until you finally die. Same with companies. Things change so fast now that you could be crushing it one year and going out of business the next. It’s not like old days where you could setup a blacksmithing shop and have business for generations. Results now are way better than results later.

palmotea 1y ago
> Unfortunately it’s becoming more obvious that “short-term” is all we really have in this world. There is no long term. That's definitely not true. It sounds like a rationalization for the existing bad and unwise behavior. > So why plan for long term? Life is a series of short-term wins until you finally die. So, dump the untreated toxic waste into the river, then? > Same with companies. Things change so fast now that you could be crushing it one year and going out of business the next. It’s not like old days where you could setup a blacksmithing shop and have business for generations. Maybe if you're in some startup, but that's not the usual case. > Results now are way better than results later. So be "very proud [for taking] home a salary for about two hours of work per day following up with contractors, then heading to the gym and making social plans."?
- pixl97 1y ago
  >That's definitely not true. It sounds like a rationalization for the existing bad and unwise behavior. You seem to miss that companies that think quarter to quarter behave just like this. >So, dump the untreated toxic waste into the river, then? You mean like the current administration that's trying to get rid of the EPA?
  - palmotea 1y ago
    >> That's definitely not true. It sounds like a rationalization for the existing bad and unwise behavior. > You seem to miss that companies that think quarter to quarter behave just like this. Did I miss that, or was I commenting on that exact thing? >> So, dump the untreated toxic waste into the river, then? > You mean like the current administration that's trying to get rid of the EPA? What's your point with that political derail? It's honestly baffling.
    - yifanl 1y ago
      It's not just a political derail to bring up a highly-visible example of the described behaviour. People don't care if they aren't forced to care, and in a world driven by deadlines, we're only motivated to care a certain amount. There used to be an intrinsic motivator of "well, my kids are going to suffer if I don't push for long-term relationships", but now we aren't having kids, so that carrot doesn't work, and that attitude is bubbling up into the corporate world.
      - UnreachableCode 1y ago
        >bring up a highly-visible example Sure, but let's be clear, we shouldn't be taking any lessons from the Trump regime on how to live in virtually any aspect in one's life. If anything they're a shining example of everything not to do.
squigz 1y ago
> Unfortunately it’s becoming more obvious that “short-term” is all we really have in this world. There is no long term. The opposite seems far more obvious to me. Short-term results aren't going to last. Planning for the long-term - whether that's a career, family, or whatever - is critical to a fulfilling and healthy life. > Results now are way better than results later. I don't see why you can't have both.
adjfasn47573 1y ago
I think your comment comes from a very specific point of view. Like software/tech jobs. (Even there you have long term stuff that we all would definitely benefit from). There are so many things where short-term only thinking is counter-productive. It swallows money, creates frustration and leaves an overall net-negative to society and the world. Just one example would be city planning. Repairing a road? What else is there like fiber cables, maybe some tram tracks, and so on, long term planning would be to acquire a holistic picture and to plan one timespan where everything is done fast but with quality. It’s a few months construction, after that everything is fine for years or even a few decades to come. But what you see instead is one part of the state that manages fiber cables doing there own thing, another part that manages street quality do their own thing. So the street has a construction site for a year (for just improving one part) then a few months nothing then another year of construction again, nothing, construction and soon you have over a decade of constant on and off construction work on this one street. Something that could’ve been done in 6-12 months once and be done, if planned correctly and with long term and holistic picture in mind. And this is just one example. The world is full of stuff like this. Short term might be a good thing for very specific types of projects, but I hard disagree that short term is overall better in any way. In my opinion this shortterm thinking is a huge negative factor of modern societies. Because not everything is a tech startup where things change super fast.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
_DeadFred_ 1y ago
Blessed are those who plant trees under whose shade they will never sit
- abenga 1y ago
  I think they mean (to stretch the analogy), we are razing trees to build rapidly changing highways so much now that the tree you plant today may be chopped down in a couple of years through no fault of your own.
pmg101 1y ago
Not sure why you get down voted for this. Seems self evident that increasing pace of change of society tilts the rational strategy towards short-term over long-term gain. Do people disagree that the pace of change is increasing? Do people disagree that short termism is rationally appropriate in a highly changeable situation? Long term planning requires a stable backdrop. I agree with you.

WalterBright 1y ago

> it's all due to the focus on short-term financial results I've heard that my whole life. If that were generally true, company stocks would be going steadily downwards.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
GE [1]? Boeing [2] [3]? The stocks go up because management and shareholders pull forward the gains as financialization destroys the long term value of the enterprises. Works until it doesn't. [1] Power Failure: The downfall of General Electric - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44102034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44102034 - May 2025 [2] Fatal Recklessness at Boeing Traces Back to Long-Standing C-Suite Greed - https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/boeing-corporate-greed-airline-safety/ https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/boeing-corporate-... - April 9th, 2024 [3] HN Search: Boeing - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=boeing&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- WalterBright 1y ago
  Boeing consistently went up for many decades prior to the MAX crisis. So did GE. Companies have life cycles. They grow until they become unable to function efficiently anymore, then they go down. It's not about prioritizing short term results.
  - palmotea 1y ago
    >> GE [1]? Boeing [2] [3]? The stocks go up because management and shareholders pull forward the gains as financialization destroys the long term value of the enterprises. Works until it doesn't. > Boeing consistently went up for many decades prior to the MAX crisis. So did GE. The point is they could have probably kept going up if they hadn't done that. It's like how if you choose to eat your seed corn, you'll be fat and happy for a season, then you and your family will certainly starve to death next year. You'd most likely had lived if you hadn't made that short-term decision. > Companies have life cycles. They grow until they become unable to function efficiently anymore, then they go down. And how often are the "life cycles" really just the accumulation of bad short-term decisions catching up with the company? You can kludge and kludge and kludge, but eventually that makes the app unmaintainable. Then you're in "total rewrite" or go under territory.

const_cast 1y ago

Most workers have learned that going above and beyond almost always backfires. Employers don't value long-term employment relationships, so working hard just results in you raising the bar for yourself, with no benefit. A lot of these people were once starry-eyed highschoolers and college students who got burned too many times. They put in the time, the effort, the blood, sweat and tears, and what did they get? No thank you, just more work. Eventually they can't live up to the standard they themselves set, and they're let go. Meanwhile, bozos show up late and half-ass everything and then that becomes their expectation. Nobody wants to be Atlas.

capyba 1y ago
Dang, feeling this right now. Went above and beyond again and again, for years, barely got a thank you - let alone a raise of any sort. Now I’m completely burnt out and don’t have the energy to even consider my own ideas for my own next move.
- MichaelZuo 1y ago
  Then why are you still there? People who’ve succeeded in tricking you… likely will do so again in the future. And maybe with even less scruples.
  - spwa4 1y ago
    That's an easy one - they're still paying ...
thefringthing 1y ago
> They put in the time, the effort, the blood, sweat and tears, and what did they get? No thank you, just more work. Don't be ridiculous. They got a pizza party and $20 gift card to a mall store.

bghooper 1y ago

[flagged]

sahilagarwal 1y ago

This perfectly illustrates why I've always preferred working at startups over major corps including FAANG / MANGA. There is a top down culture of not embracing mediocrity that genuinely makes me thrive at work. My current company has a good work life balance and if I make a point that some part of the system needs improvement, my voice actually gets heard. Only place I've seen where sprint retros actually made impact. Most of my friends have no work life balance and also don't have a voice when they see half-assed work. The numbers showcase the effect of this as well. The startup has thrived even when VC's have tightened their purses.