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The percentage of Harvard international students who fall into this category is statistically insignificant. It’s not even worth framing.

orlp 1y ago
It's not about the percentage of Harvard international students who fall into this category, it's about the percentage of students in this category who go to Harvard.
- BobaFloutist 1y ago
  Also fairly low. There's plenty of high-prestige institutions in the world.
  - rf15 1y ago
    As someone from europe I'd say Harvard and MIT are the #1 prestige institutions, and a lot of people will not settle for less.
    - nradov 1y ago
      A lot? Those institutions only accept a relatively small total number of foreign students. Everyone else has to "settle for less" whether they want to or not.
      - chipsrafferty 1y ago
        If Dad gifts a new building on campus you odds at getting accepted go up tenfold.
        s1artibartfast 1y ago
        I dont see why that is ever considered a problem. They are literally a private institution selling a service. Why shouldn't you be able to pay your way to the front of the line.
        BobaFloutist 1y ago
        It's fine as long as they're open about it. It's when they say "We're a very selective institution that only accepts the academic best of the best from the entire world" and then also allow pay to play, clarifying "Also the people whose parents donated us buildings juuuuust so happen to be the academic best of the best from the the entire world" that people start to question just how selective admission really is, and just how world-class their student body and standards really are. If they kept stats on who was an endowment/legacy admit and gave them a different colored diploma so people could filter them out when assessing things like grades and graduation rate and they didn't effect the curve I think there would be less criticism of the process.
        s1artibartfast 1y ago
        I think they do keep stats on legacy admits. I dont see why they would get different diplomas provided they complete the same coursework. If they are inferior, they should only help others on the curve. I do think they would be more upfront about options for entry.
        BobaFloutist 1y ago
        >If they are inferior, they should only help others on the curve. Not if they're given unearned grades
        SR2Z 1y ago
        Everyone at Harvard is given unearned grades. It's the poster child for GPA inflation. I forget the exact stat, but I think the median GPA there is about an A-.
    - BobaFloutist 1y ago
      MIT, really? I think of MIT as being high prestige mostly for people that actually want a science or tech-related career, not for old-money people looking to make family connections.
      - FilosofumRex 1y ago
        > MIT as being high prestige mostly for people that actually want a science or tech-related career... Apparently you've not been to MIT in a while - it offers degrees in business management, finance, plus 17 in arts, humanities, and social sciences, not to mention grad programs. MIT admits more than its fair share of fruit-cakes with money: https://catalog.mit.edu/degree-charts/ https://catalog.mit.edu/degree-charts/
        BobaFloutist 1y ago
        Believe it or not, I've never been to MIT.
    - tgmatt 1y ago
      Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial College would disagree.
      - fnordpiglet 1y ago
        There is no need for there to be one and only one such institution.
    - BrandoElFollito 1y ago
      Depends in what. HEC in France is the top for finance.
rayiner 1y ago
[flagged]
- monkey_monkey 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - rayiner 1y ago
    I used that example because it’s my family. My mom’s family’s landholdings have grown in value as our capital city grows, so my aunts and uncles are selling plots and buying houses in California in cash. This is after distributing my grandfather’s estate among a dozen kids. From a country where the per-capita GDP is $2,400 per year. How do you think that happened? This background is table stakes for being part of the 0.1% that has the means to emigrate out of these countries and send their kids to elite American schools.
    - victorbjorklund 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - rayiner 1y ago
        I don’t think my family was involved in corruption. But they are part of a landed gentry class that cooperated with the British colonial administration. My mom’s surname is an honorific reserved for people in a high position within a rigid class hierarchy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begum But yes, I think that, in the aggregate, it’s not good to have a large number of people like me injected straight into America’s major institutions. We dilute what I think is a core american value against elitism and hierarchy. And our presence gives our home grown elite permission to drop certain beneficial safeguards on their behavior, such as the WASP taboo against conspicuous consumption. This is highly visible in Northern Virginia where I grew up. It was always full of elites, but now it’s full of elites that don’t feel pressured to keep a low profile and at least pretend they’re not elites.
  - 1y ago
fnordpiglet 1y ago
As a percentage of -students- yes but as a percentage of world power children? That’s a much smaller cohort, and is the cohort that matters in this context.

orlp 1y ago

It's not about the percentage of Harvard international students who fall into this category, it's about the percentage of students in this category who go to Harvard.

BobaFloutist 1y ago
Also fairly low. There's plenty of high-prestige institutions in the world.
- rf15 1y ago
  As someone from europe I'd say Harvard and MIT are the #1 prestige institutions, and a lot of people will not settle for less.
  - nradov 1y ago
    A lot? Those institutions only accept a relatively small total number of foreign students. Everyone else has to "settle for less" whether they want to or not.
    - chipsrafferty 1y ago
      If Dad gifts a new building on campus you odds at getting accepted go up tenfold.
      - s1artibartfast 1y ago
        I dont see why that is ever considered a problem. They are literally a private institution selling a service. Why shouldn't you be able to pay your way to the front of the line.
        BobaFloutist 1y ago
        It's fine as long as they're open about it. It's when they say "We're a very selective institution that only accepts the academic best of the best from the entire world" and then also allow pay to play, clarifying "Also the people whose parents donated us buildings juuuuust so happen to be the academic best of the best from the the entire world" that people start to question just how selective admission really is, and just how world-class their student body and standards really are. If they kept stats on who was an endowment/legacy admit and gave them a different colored diploma so people could filter them out when assessing things like grades and graduation rate and they didn't effect the curve I think there would be less criticism of the process.
        s1artibartfast 1y ago
        I think they do keep stats on legacy admits. I dont see why they would get different diplomas provided they complete the same coursework. If they are inferior, they should only help others on the curve. I do think they would be more upfront about options for entry.
        BobaFloutist 1y ago
        >If they are inferior, they should only help others on the curve. Not if they're given unearned grades
        SR2Z 1y ago
        Everyone at Harvard is given unearned grades. It's the poster child for GPA inflation. I forget the exact stat, but I think the median GPA there is about an A-.
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    MIT, really? I think of MIT as being high prestige mostly for people that actually want a science or tech-related career, not for old-money people looking to make family connections.
    - FilosofumRex 1y ago
      > MIT as being high prestige mostly for people that actually want a science or tech-related career... Apparently you've not been to MIT in a while - it offers degrees in business management, finance, plus 17 in arts, humanities, and social sciences, not to mention grad programs. MIT admits more than its fair share of fruit-cakes with money: https://catalog.mit.edu/degree-charts/ https://catalog.mit.edu/degree-charts/
      - BobaFloutist 1y ago
        Believe it or not, I've never been to MIT.
  - tgmatt 1y ago
    Oxford, Cambridge and Imperial College would disagree.
    - fnordpiglet 1y ago
      There is no need for there to be one and only one such institution.
  - BrandoElFollito 1y ago
    Depends in what. HEC in France is the top for finance.

rayiner 1y ago

[flagged]

monkey_monkey 1y ago
[flagged]
- rayiner 1y ago
  I used that example because it’s my family. My mom’s family’s landholdings have grown in value as our capital city grows, so my aunts and uncles are selling plots and buying houses in California in cash. This is after distributing my grandfather’s estate among a dozen kids. From a country where the per-capita GDP is $2,400 per year. How do you think that happened? This background is table stakes for being part of the 0.1% that has the means to emigrate out of these countries and send their kids to elite American schools.
  - victorbjorklund 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - rayiner 1y ago
      I don’t think my family was involved in corruption. But they are part of a landed gentry class that cooperated with the British colonial administration. My mom’s surname is an honorific reserved for people in a high position within a rigid class hierarchy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begum But yes, I think that, in the aggregate, it’s not good to have a large number of people like me injected straight into America’s major institutions. We dilute what I think is a core american value against elitism and hierarchy. And our presence gives our home grown elite permission to drop certain beneficial safeguards on their behavior, such as the WASP taboo against conspicuous consumption. This is highly visible in Northern Virginia where I grew up. It was always full of elites, but now it’s full of elites that don’t feel pressured to keep a low profile and at least pretend they’re not elites.
- 1y ago

fnordpiglet 1y ago

As a percentage of -students- yes but as a percentage of world power children? That’s a much smaller cohort, and is the cohort that matters in this context.