7 ms·

Nvidia pushes further into cloud with GPU marketplace

100 points by Bostonian 1y ago

Bostonian 1y ago
https://archive.is/cnYO8 https://archive.is/cnYO8
- snihalani 1y ago
  ty
justahuman74 1y ago
I can't see the cloud providers being happy about this, it whitelabels away their branding and customer experience flows. It puts nvidia on both the vendor and customer side of the relationship, which seems odd
- seydor 1y ago
  google make their own chips too
  - londons_explore 1y ago
    TPU's have serious compatibility problems with a good chunk of the ML ecosystem. That alone means many users will want to use Nvidia hardware even at a decent price premium when the alternative is an extra few months of engineering time in a very fast moving market.
    - jszymborski 1y ago
      I haven't worked with TPUs, but my understanding is that they are pretty plug-n-play for Google frameworks (JAX, TF) but is also pretty simple to use with PyTorch [0]. That covers nearly all of the marketshare [0] https://docs.pytorch.org/xla/release/r2.7/learn/xla-overview.html https://docs.pytorch.org/xla/release/r2.7/learn/xla-overview...
      - shakna 1y ago
        If only things were simple [0]. [0] https://github.com/pytorch/xla/issues/9189 https://github.com/pytorch/xla/issues/9189
        jszymborski 1y ago
        Certainly not plug-and-play, and perhaps this is just one of many bugs, but if it isn't I can't imagine a scenario where LazyLinear layers are essential.
      - que-encrypt 1y ago
        pytorch xla is barely supported in the pytorch ecosystem (for instance, pytorch lightning still doesn't easily support tpu pods, with only a singular short page about google colab v2-8 tpus that is out of date. Then there are the various libraries/implementations with pytorch that have a .cuda(), etc. More limitations at: https://lightning.ai/docs/pytorch/stable/accelerators/tpu_faq.html https://lightning.ai/docs/pytorch/stable/accelerators/tpu_fa...). I haven't worked with tensorflow, but I've heard it's a pain even when using gpus. JAX is the real deal, and does make my code transferrable between GPUs/TPUs relatively easily (excluding any custom pallas kernels for flash vs splash attention, but this is usually not a massive code change). However, with JAX, there are often not a bunch of pre-existing implementations due to network effects, etc.
- ketzo 1y ago
  Well, what are they gonna do about it? Nvidia has the most desirable chips in the world, and their insane prices reflect that. Every hyperscaler is already massively incentivized to build their own chips, find some way to take Nvidia down a peg in the value chain. Everyone in the world who can is already coming for Nvidia’s turf. No reason they can’t repay the favor. And beyond just margin-taking, Nvidia’s true moat is the CUDA ecosystem. Given that, it’s hugely beneficial to them to make it as easy as possible for every developer in the world to build stuff on top of Nvidia chips — so they never even think about looking elsewhere.
  - Xevion 1y ago
    While I don't dispute that they're objectively the most desirable at the current moment - I do think your comment implies that they deserve it, or that people WANT Nvidia to be the best. It almost sounds like you're cheering on Nvidia, framing it as "everyone else trying to reduce the value of Nvidia", meanwhile they have a long, long history of closed-source drivers, proprietary & patented cost-inflated technology that would be identical if not inferior to alternatives - if it weren't for their market share and vendor lock-in strategies. "Well, what are they gonna do about it?" When dealing with a bully, you go find friends. They're going to fund other chip manufacturers and push for diversity, fund better drivers and compatibility. That's the best possible future anyone could hope for.
    - almostgotcaught 1y ago
      > that would be identical if not inferior to alternatives - if it weren't for their market share and vendor lock-in strategies. 1. "Identical if not for market share" is a complete contradiction when what we're talking about is the network effect of CUDA 2. What vendor lock in? What are you talking about? They have a software and compiler stack that works with their chips. How is that lock in, that's literally just their product offering. In fact the truth is you can compile CUDA for AMD (using hipify) and guess what - the result sucks because AMD isn't a comparable alternative!
      - Ygg2 1y ago
- alexgartrell 1y ago
  The cloud business model is to use scale and customer ownership to crush hardware margins to dust. They’re also building their own accelerators to try to cut Nvidia out altogether.
  - shrubble 1y ago
    Cloud is propped up by the tax laws. Cloud bills can be written off in the month in which they are paid; while buying hardware has to be depreciated over years.
    - sokoloff 1y ago
      Section 179 allows immediate expensing of equipment including computers, but is limited to $1.25M/yr. That’s enough for many small and medium businesses.
  - cbg0 1y ago
    I've always felt that the business model is nickel & diming for things like storage/bandwidth and locking in customers with value-add black box services that you can't easily replace with open source solutions. Just took a random server: https://instances.vantage.sh/aws/ec2/m5d.8xlarge?duration=monthly https://instances.vantage.sh/aws/ec2/m5d.8xlarge?duration=mo... - to get a decent price on it you need to commit to three years at $570 per month(no storage or bandwidth included). Over the course of 3 years that's $20520 for a server that's ~10K to buy outright, and even with colo costs over the same time frame you'll spend a lot less, so not exactly crushing those margins to dust.
- xbmcuser 1y ago
  This is what Nvidia has always done creeping into the margins of its partners and taking over. All it's gpu board partners will tell the same story.
- neximo64 1y ago
  Why? If the GPUs are used and they want more it makes it easy, also its opt-in.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- Hilift 1y ago
  > DGX Cloud Lepton, is designed to link artificial intelligence developers with Nvidia’s network of cloud providers, which provide access to its graphics processing units, or GPUs. Some of Nvidia’s cloud provider partners include CoreWeave, Lambda and Crusoe. > "Nvidia DGX Cloud Lepton connects our network of global GPU cloud providers with AI developers," said Jensen Huang, chief executive of Nvidia in a statement. The news was announced at the Computex conference in Taiwan. Sounds like a preferred developer resource. The target audience isn't the usual cro-mag that wants to run LLM's for food.
- moralestapia 1y ago
  Cool, they're also free to start making their own GPUs ...
AlotOfReading 1y ago
I can see the value of the product, but this seems like an incredibly dangerous offering for smaller clouds. Nvidia has significant leverage to drive prices down to commodity and keep any margin for themselves, while pushing most of the risk onto their partners.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- alexgartrell 1y ago
  I’d imagine that these clouds are probably being incentivized to participate
saagarjha 1y ago
So it's basically Vast.ai but for cloud providers?
londons_explore 1y ago
Isn't that rather stepping on the toes of your biggest clients - Microsoft, aws, gCloud, etc.
- aranchelk 1y ago
  Customers of those services have a lot of considerations, as long as Nvidia doesn’t undercut the prices too much, I think no. Getting more developers creating more models that can then be run on those services will likely expand business for all of those vendors.
- noosphr 1y ago
  All those customers are also building their own chips. Having been a partner for Microsoft research I've also had them try and patent the stuff we were providing them. In short with megacorps the only winning move is to fuck them faster than they can fuck you.
  - mi_lk 1y ago
    That’s a beautiful conclusion
zombiwoof 1y ago
Bye AMD
- Xevion 1y ago
  Dumb. No cloud provider is gonna see further price gouging from the company with the largest market share and think "Yeah, let's disconnect from the only remaining competitor, make sure every nail is in our coffin". It's probably the opposite. I bet this move will lead to AMD's increased funding towards compatability and TPU development, in the hopes that they'll become a serious competitor to Nvidia.
  - chii 1y ago
    > AMD's increased funding towards compatability and TPU development no investor is going to bet on the second-place horse. Because they would've done the betting _before_ nvidia became the winning powerhouse that it has become! The fact is, AMD's hardware capability is just insufficient to compete, and they're not getting there fast enough - unlike the games industry, there's not a lot of low budget buyers here.
    - basilgohar 1y ago
      AMD is hindered more by their software and network effects than raw hardware performance.
    - diggan 1y ago
      > Because they would've done the betting _before_ nvidia became the winning powerhouse that it has become! Right, isn't that an argument to stop investing in nvidia, and hedge your bets by investing in current second-place horse in case it becomes the winning horse? Assuming of course you think AMD has even a slight chance of becoming that winning horse.
      - chii 1y ago
        The fact is, AMD's stock price pre-chatgpt kinda tracks nvidia's. But post chatgpt release, they diverged[0]. And this is what i am talking about regarding the betting before nvidia became the winning horse. Aint nobody betting on AMD any more. [0] https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/AMD#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 https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/AMD#eyJsYXlvdXQiOnsiaW50ZXJ2...
netfortius 1y ago
Isn't their CEO the guy who called Trump re-industrialisation policies 'visionary'? [1] Maybe that's where the idea on cloud (as all others, nowadays) is coming from?!? ;-> [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/nvidia-ceo-calls-trump-re-industrialisation-policies-visionary-2025-05-24/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/nvidia-ce...
theincredulousk 1y ago
This has been developing for a while... The big players have basically been competing for allocations of a set production, so NVIDIA negotiated into the allocations that some % of the compute capacity they "sell" them is reserved and exclusively leased back to NVIDIA. So now NVIDIA has a whole bunch of cloud infrastructure hosted by the usual suspects that they can use for the same type of business the usual suspects do. well played tbh
- xhkkffbf 1y ago
  I hate to be cynical, but I've seen such leaseback schemes used to inflate sales. Is that the case here? Or is there enough demand or legit usage to justify this kind of arrangement?
  - kurthr 1y ago
    It's just another kind of leverage. There's no problem, until there is, and then it's bigger than it would have been. Once all of their sales are leasebacks, you'll know it's about to go boom (of course they won't announce that in their reports).
bgwalter 1y ago
Well, Sun Microsystems launched a cloud shortly before being acquired by Oracle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Cloud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Cloud Microsoft's Azure is reportedly a loss leader: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/21/google-leaked-doc-microsoft-azure-losing-money-on-29-bln-in-revenue.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/21/google-leaked-doc-microsoft-... But don't let that stop you from going outside your core competency.

100 points by Bostonian 1y ago

Bostonian 1y ago

https://archive.is/cnYO8 https://archive.is/cnYO8

snihalani 1y ago
ty

justahuman74 1y ago

I can't see the cloud providers being happy about this, it whitelabels away their branding and customer experience flows. It puts nvidia on both the vendor and customer side of the relationship, which seems odd

seydor 1y ago
google make their own chips too
- londons_explore 1y ago
  TPU's have serious compatibility problems with a good chunk of the ML ecosystem. That alone means many users will want to use Nvidia hardware even at a decent price premium when the alternative is an extra few months of engineering time in a very fast moving market.
  - jszymborski 1y ago
    I haven't worked with TPUs, but my understanding is that they are pretty plug-n-play for Google frameworks (JAX, TF) but is also pretty simple to use with PyTorch [0]. That covers nearly all of the marketshare [0] https://docs.pytorch.org/xla/release/r2.7/learn/xla-overview.html https://docs.pytorch.org/xla/release/r2.7/learn/xla-overview...
    - shakna 1y ago
      If only things were simple [0]. [0] https://github.com/pytorch/xla/issues/9189 https://github.com/pytorch/xla/issues/9189
      - jszymborski 1y ago
        Certainly not plug-and-play, and perhaps this is just one of many bugs, but if it isn't I can't imagine a scenario where LazyLinear layers are essential.
    - que-encrypt 1y ago
      pytorch xla is barely supported in the pytorch ecosystem (for instance, pytorch lightning still doesn't easily support tpu pods, with only a singular short page about google colab v2-8 tpus that is out of date. Then there are the various libraries/implementations with pytorch that have a .cuda(), etc. More limitations at: https://lightning.ai/docs/pytorch/stable/accelerators/tpu_faq.html https://lightning.ai/docs/pytorch/stable/accelerators/tpu_fa...). I haven't worked with tensorflow, but I've heard it's a pain even when using gpus. JAX is the real deal, and does make my code transferrable between GPUs/TPUs relatively easily (excluding any custom pallas kernels for flash vs splash attention, but this is usually not a massive code change). However, with JAX, there are often not a bunch of pre-existing implementations due to network effects, etc.
ketzo 1y ago
Well, what are they gonna do about it? Nvidia has the most desirable chips in the world, and their insane prices reflect that. Every hyperscaler is already massively incentivized to build their own chips, find some way to take Nvidia down a peg in the value chain. Everyone in the world who can is already coming for Nvidia’s turf. No reason they can’t repay the favor. And beyond just margin-taking, Nvidia’s true moat is the CUDA ecosystem. Given that, it’s hugely beneficial to them to make it as easy as possible for every developer in the world to build stuff on top of Nvidia chips — so they never even think about looking elsewhere.
- Xevion 1y ago
  While I don't dispute that they're objectively the most desirable at the current moment - I do think your comment implies that they deserve it, or that people WANT Nvidia to be the best. It almost sounds like you're cheering on Nvidia, framing it as "everyone else trying to reduce the value of Nvidia", meanwhile they have a long, long history of closed-source drivers, proprietary & patented cost-inflated technology that would be identical if not inferior to alternatives - if it weren't for their market share and vendor lock-in strategies. "Well, what are they gonna do about it?" When dealing with a bully, you go find friends. They're going to fund other chip manufacturers and push for diversity, fund better drivers and compatibility. That's the best possible future anyone could hope for.
  - almostgotcaught 1y ago
    > that would be identical if not inferior to alternatives - if it weren't for their market share and vendor lock-in strategies. 1. "Identical if not for market share" is a complete contradiction when what we're talking about is the network effect of CUDA 2. What vendor lock in? What are you talking about? They have a software and compiler stack that works with their chips. How is that lock in, that's literally just their product offering. In fact the truth is you can compile CUDA for AMD (using hipify) and guess what - the result sucks because AMD isn't a comparable alternative!
    - Ygg2 1y ago
alexgartrell 1y ago
The cloud business model is to use scale and customer ownership to crush hardware margins to dust. They’re also building their own accelerators to try to cut Nvidia out altogether.
- shrubble 1y ago
  Cloud is propped up by the tax laws. Cloud bills can be written off in the month in which they are paid; while buying hardware has to be depreciated over years.
  - sokoloff 1y ago
    Section 179 allows immediate expensing of equipment including computers, but is limited to $1.25M/yr. That’s enough for many small and medium businesses.
- cbg0 1y ago
  I've always felt that the business model is nickel & diming for things like storage/bandwidth and locking in customers with value-add black box services that you can't easily replace with open source solutions. Just took a random server: https://instances.vantage.sh/aws/ec2/m5d.8xlarge?duration=monthly https://instances.vantage.sh/aws/ec2/m5d.8xlarge?duration=mo... - to get a decent price on it you need to commit to three years at $570 per month(no storage or bandwidth included). Over the course of 3 years that's $20520 for a server that's ~10K to buy outright, and even with colo costs over the same time frame you'll spend a lot less, so not exactly crushing those margins to dust.
xbmcuser 1y ago
This is what Nvidia has always done creeping into the margins of its partners and taking over. All it's gpu board partners will tell the same story.
neximo64 1y ago
Why? If the GPUs are used and they want more it makes it easy, also its opt-in.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
Hilift 1y ago
> DGX Cloud Lepton, is designed to link artificial intelligence developers with Nvidia’s network of cloud providers, which provide access to its graphics processing units, or GPUs. Some of Nvidia’s cloud provider partners include CoreWeave, Lambda and Crusoe. > "Nvidia DGX Cloud Lepton connects our network of global GPU cloud providers with AI developers," said Jensen Huang, chief executive of Nvidia in a statement. The news was announced at the Computex conference in Taiwan. Sounds like a preferred developer resource. The target audience isn't the usual cro-mag that wants to run LLM's for food.
moralestapia 1y ago
Cool, they're also free to start making their own GPUs ...

AlotOfReading 1y ago

I can see the value of the product, but this seems like an incredibly dangerous offering for smaller clouds. Nvidia has significant leverage to drive prices down to commodity and keep any margin for themselves, while pushing most of the risk onto their partners.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
alexgartrell 1y ago
I’d imagine that these clouds are probably being incentivized to participate

saagarjha 1y ago

So it's basically Vast.ai but for cloud providers?

londons_explore 1y ago

Isn't that rather stepping on the toes of your biggest clients - Microsoft, aws, gCloud, etc.

aranchelk 1y ago
Customers of those services have a lot of considerations, as long as Nvidia doesn’t undercut the prices too much, I think no. Getting more developers creating more models that can then be run on those services will likely expand business for all of those vendors.
noosphr 1y ago
All those customers are also building their own chips. Having been a partner for Microsoft research I've also had them try and patent the stuff we were providing them. In short with megacorps the only winning move is to fuck them faster than they can fuck you.
- mi_lk 1y ago
  That’s a beautiful conclusion

zombiwoof 1y ago

Bye AMD

Xevion 1y ago
Dumb. No cloud provider is gonna see further price gouging from the company with the largest market share and think "Yeah, let's disconnect from the only remaining competitor, make sure every nail is in our coffin". It's probably the opposite. I bet this move will lead to AMD's increased funding towards compatability and TPU development, in the hopes that they'll become a serious competitor to Nvidia.
- chii 1y ago
  > AMD's increased funding towards compatability and TPU development no investor is going to bet on the second-place horse. Because they would've done the betting _before_ nvidia became the winning powerhouse that it has become! The fact is, AMD's hardware capability is just insufficient to compete, and they're not getting there fast enough - unlike the games industry, there's not a lot of low budget buyers here.
  - basilgohar 1y ago
    AMD is hindered more by their software and network effects than raw hardware performance.
  - diggan 1y ago
    > Because they would've done the betting _before_ nvidia became the winning powerhouse that it has become! Right, isn't that an argument to stop investing in nvidia, and hedge your bets by investing in current second-place horse in case it becomes the winning horse? Assuming of course you think AMD has even a slight chance of becoming that winning horse.
    - chii 1y ago
      The fact is, AMD's stock price pre-chatgpt kinda tracks nvidia's. But post chatgpt release, they diverged[0]. And this is what i am talking about regarding the betting before nvidia became the winning horse. Aint nobody betting on AMD any more. [0] https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/AMD#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 https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/AMD#eyJsYXlvdXQiOnsiaW50ZXJ2...

netfortius 1y ago

Isn't their CEO the guy who called Trump re-industrialisation policies 'visionary'? [1] Maybe that's where the idea on cloud (as all others, nowadays) is coming from?!? ;-> [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/nvidia-ceo-calls-trump-re-industrialisation-policies-visionary-2025-05-24/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/nvidia-ce...

theincredulousk 1y ago

This has been developing for a while... The big players have basically been competing for allocations of a set production, so NVIDIA negotiated into the allocations that some % of the compute capacity they "sell" them is reserved and exclusively leased back to NVIDIA. So now NVIDIA has a whole bunch of cloud infrastructure hosted by the usual suspects that they can use for the same type of business the usual suspects do. well played tbh

xhkkffbf 1y ago
I hate to be cynical, but I've seen such leaseback schemes used to inflate sales. Is that the case here? Or is there enough demand or legit usage to justify this kind of arrangement?
- kurthr 1y ago
  It's just another kind of leverage. There's no problem, until there is, and then it's bigger than it would have been. Once all of their sales are leasebacks, you'll know it's about to go boom (of course they won't announce that in their reports).

bgwalter 1y ago

Well, Sun Microsystems launched a cloud shortly before being acquired by Oracle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Cloud https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Cloud Microsoft's Azure is reportedly a loss leader: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/21/google-leaked-doc-microsoft-azure-losing-money-on-29-bln-in-revenue.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/21/google-leaked-doc-microsoft-... But don't let that stop you from going outside your core competency.