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mmm ... your argument doesn't explain why China is more succesfully? They used to have some higher power since forever

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
Some European nations were also successful when ruled by higher powers, see the colonial empires of Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, etc. but so many wanna-be world powers occupying a small space led to constant conflicts, limited freedoms, bloody regime changes, and the famous self-immolations of WW1 and WW2 which finally introduced modern democracy to Europe and a end(on paper) to their focus on world domination. My point is, it can be easy to become economically successful like China when you're a large country with massive human capital and don't give a fuck about democracy, slavery, human abuse and welfare, regulations, etc. and prioritize money at all cost. It's how most empires became empires.
logicchains 1y ago
The average Chinese businessperson of that generation has as little trust in the government as the most hardcore American conservative, due to the extreme corruption they witnessed.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  As someone from a relatively successful country with entrenched high levle corruption, I can say that cuts both ways. Plenty of business people actually like the high level corruption because it can make doing business easier for them: no red tape, no long wait times, just bribe a some politician and all your paperwork is approved instantly, then it's smooth sailing. That's how China became rich despite corruption. What you don't want is the Africa style corruption where every single peon and government worker from the top to the bottom, from the president to the policeman on the street, wants a bribe from you every 5 minutes for random reasons they make up. This way nothing ever gets done and the country stays perpetually poor.
  - disgruntledphd2 1y ago
    Yeah, high level corruption is bad, but pervasive corruption is much, much worse.

Some European nations were also successful when ruled by higher powers, see the colonial empires of Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, etc. but so many wanna-be world powers occupying a small space led to constant conflicts, limited freedoms, bloody regime changes, and the famous self-immolations of WW1 and WW2 which finally introduced modern democracy to Europe and a end(on paper) to their focus on world domination. My point is, it can be easy to become economically successful like China when you're a large country with massive human capital and don't give a fuck about democracy, slavery, human abuse and welfare, regulations, etc. and prioritize money at all cost. It's how most empires became empires.

logicchains 1y ago

The average Chinese businessperson of that generation has as little trust in the government as the most hardcore American conservative, due to the extreme corruption they witnessed.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
As someone from a relatively successful country with entrenched high levle corruption, I can say that cuts both ways. Plenty of business people actually like the high level corruption because it can make doing business easier for them: no red tape, no long wait times, just bribe a some politician and all your paperwork is approved instantly, then it's smooth sailing. That's how China became rich despite corruption. What you don't want is the Africa style corruption where every single peon and government worker from the top to the bottom, from the president to the policeman on the street, wants a bribe from you every 5 minutes for random reasons they make up. This way nothing ever gets done and the country stays perpetually poor.
- disgruntledphd2 1y ago
  Yeah, high level corruption is bad, but pervasive corruption is much, much worse.