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> When 2:50 rolled around and your meeting was supposed to end, do you think people actually ended the meeting? Noooooo. Absolutely not! At U of M, they solved
by gwd 1y ago
> When 2:50 rolled around and your meeting was supposed to end, do you think people actually ended the meeting? Noooooo. Absolutely not!
At U of M, they solved this problem by having classes officially start 10 minutes after the time they were advertised as. That is, a class listed as being 10-11am was actually 10:10-11am; nobody showed up until 10:10.
Sure, technically it's the same thing, but there's a pretty massive anchoring effect for things on the hour. Still being in the meeting room at 11:01 feels a lot later than still being in the meeting room at 10:51.
- Tomte 1y agoFifteen minutes late used to be the academic standard in Germany (and other countries): it was noted by “c.t.” in the timetable, meaning “cum tempore”. When I studied it had already been mostly abolished. Sometimes starting times were explicitly marked “sine tempore”.
- thaumasiotes 1y agoThose are strange annotations; it looks like at least one word is missing. They mean "with time" and "without time".
- divbzero 1y agoIt seems to make sense if you interpret it as: 10am c.t. = 10am with extra time 10am s.t. = 10am without extra time
- devmor 1y agoThey sound like appropriate abbreviations to me. Something like: "With time to get to the location" and "Without time to get to the location"
- spookie 1y agoTempore is in ablative case, and in english there isn't a good substitute. This means it isn't a static set time event, it has some leeway so to speak. German has the ablative case, so I think it works out for them.
- AdhemarVandamme 1y agoI don’t see why the grammatical cases of Latin and German matter in the interpretation of these abbreviations. The Latin prepositions cum (with) and sine (without) are always followed by the ablative case. German has grammatical cases too, but no ablative. The German propositions mit (with) and ohne (without) are followed by the accusative case. So c.t. = cum tempore = mit Zeit = with time (or with some delay), and s.t. = sine tempore = ohne Zeit = without time (or without delay).
- filmor 1y ago"mit" is followed by dative in German. In Latin, ablative and dative are very close and which is very close, a lot of forms are indistinguishable. That doesn't change anything else you said, though :)
- thaumasiotes 1y agoWhile it's true that many Latin nouns have identical dative and ablative forms, tempus isn't one of those nouns. (In the singular. I think dative and ablative are identical in the plural for every noun.) And of course, as everyone has already mentioned, spookie's comment is complete nonsense because the case is required, and fully explained, by the prepositions.
- immibis 1y agoWikipedia specifically states: > German does not have ablative case
- shakna 1y agoCum can be translated as 'with', but due to cultural use, it can also be translated as 'in addition'. Some younger Latin recipes use 'cum sal' as a one-liner at the end, to tell the chef to season to their taste, for example.
- thaumasiotes 1y ago> Some younger Latin recipes use 'cum sal' as a one-liner at the end I have some questions: 1. What cultural use? Are you saying that German culture involves writing recipes in recreational Latin? 2. Why is sal in the nominative case? That can't possibly work. 3. Shouldn't there be a verb? For example, Apicius always ends recipes with a direction like "serve" / "bring in" / "enjoy". (Technically, those verbs are all in the future indicative, so I guess I shouldn't call them 'directions'. But it's hard to think of them as something other than directions.)
- shakna 1y agoBy cultural use, I meant a phrase whose direct translation makes no sense. An idiom ("cultural phrase"). Nominative case - Its how its used. Can't say I've studied the evolution of that particular idiom, but breaking expected rules is not unusual. There might have been a verb, once. But as with all slang, what gets dropped tends to confuse the foreigner, but be understood to the local.
- raphman 1y ago> it had already been mostly abolished c.t. is still standard at many German universities (and at all Bavarian universities I know). However, I know at least one university of applied sciences where lectures start at full hours.
- buzer 1y agoIn Finland the universities (and I believe in many other European universities have/had this as well) there was "academic quarter" which meant that if something was scheduled for 10am it would actually start at 10:15am. IIRC if they used precise time (10:00) then it would actually start at that time. I've heard it dates back to when people didn't have easy access to precise time. It would allow students to hear the hourly bells and walk to the class.
- reddalo 1y agoI confirm, we have it in Italian universities (it's called "quarto d'ora accademico" in Italian).
- BurningFrog 1y agoSame thing in Sweden in the 1980s
- spookie 1y agoStill is! Thankfully
- kzrdude 1y agoStill is, standard lecture is scheduled for example for 10-12. It starts at 10.15, pause 11.00-11.15, continues until 12.00. So it's neatly split in two 45 minute halves.
- skribb 1y agoThis has also been extended to evening events (dinners, balls, parties) in student towns. There “dk” stands for double quarter, so for example 18dk means that an event starts at 18:30, but you may show up from 18:00. And the time between 18:00-18:30 is used for mingling. It’s a good convention.
- Msurrow 1y agoSame in Denmark. Actually often needed to get from one auditorium across campus to another auditorium
- layer8 1y agoThat’s called the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_quarter_(class_timing) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_quarter_(class_timing.... (It usually is 15 minutes.)
- AnotherGoodName 1y agoThis is also fast becoming the norm in many big tech companies. The internal calendar tools will pretty much always start meetings 5minutes after the hour/half hour by default and end exactly on the hour/half hour by default (you can override if needed). It's pretty obvious, you can't travel to a meeting instantly and 100% appreciated when you work in such a place. For those senior enough for all day back to back meetings you get toilet breaks! If you work in a company that doesn't do this take note and if you're senior in a company you should start pushing for this to be implemented. A lot of calendar tools have options for meeting buffers by default and enabling it is all you need to do.
- suzzer99 1y agoYeah that seems like such an obvious solution to this problem.
- bsimpson 1y agoOur team did the same during the pandemic. They declared that the first 5 minutes of every meeting were for bio breaks. Now meetings actually start at :05 or :07. The prior meeting will often drag until that time, but you don't feel bad knocking at :00 or :02 and asking for the room to clear.
- RandallBrown 1y agoI'm sure that's where Larry Page got the idea. Unfortunately UMich ended "Michigan time" back in 2018. I always thought it was a great solution to the problem.
- re 1y ago> The 10-minute transition time will move before the hour instead of after the hour. Previously a one-hour class with an official start time of 9:00 a.m. would begin at 9:10 a.m. Under the new policy, class will begin at the official start time but end at 9:50 a.m. https://www.michiganpublic.org/education/2018-02-20/university-of-michigan-alters-michigan-time-policy https://www.michiganpublic.org/education/2018-02-20/universi... / https://record.umich.edu/articles/university-updating-start-end-times-classes/ https://record.umich.edu/articles/university-updating-start-... Sad.
- mxstbr 1y agoI've been doing this for years with my meetings and I wish Google Calendar had it built in. I have to keep manually adjusting start times and it's a pain.
- wyclif 1y agoIt really should a setting that the user can toggle to default.
- dunham 1y agoAt Michigan State, I had a math prof (Wade Ramey) who would lock the door after class started. If you were late, you couldn't attend. He also insisted students purchase a stapler and staple their homework. And he would give negative points on assignments. You could say "I don't know how to do X" for a step in a proof (0 pts), but if you put in something wrong, you would get negative points on that part. He was a good prof, and I enjoyed his classes.
- bumby 1y ago>And he would give negative points on assignments. I remember reading (maybe from Nate Silver) of a professor who would use this technique to teach about uncertainty. You could weigh your overall grade with a proclamation about how certain you were about the answer. Right answers with high certainty could really amp up your grade, but conversely if you claimed 100% certainty on a question you got wrong, you’d fail the course!
- gwern 1y agoThere are a number of variations. You might actually be thinking of https://www.overcomingbias.com/p/my-favorite-liahtml https://www.overcomingbias.com/p/my-favorite-liahtml or possibly https://gwern.net/doc/statistics/prediction/2022-gelman.pdf https://gwern.net/doc/statistics/prediction/2022-gelman.pdf (if neither of those are it, it might be one of the others I collated in https://gwern.net/fake-journal-club#external-links https://gwern.net/fake-journal-club#external-links ).
- paulcole 1y agoThis is the best/most fun way to bet on the Oscars. You pick the winner and then assign 1-25 (or whatever) points to it (using each number for only one category) and if you get it right you get that number of points. It basically prevents ties. It lets you make risky picks without falling out of the running. The downside is a shocking number of people won't be able to follow the rule and end up with 22 used twice or whatever.
- Dylan16807 1y ago
- AStonesThrow 1y agoAt my schools and workplaces, meetings or classes would begin when they began, and then several people who mattered would be chronically late, and so whatever we did in the first 5-10 minutes was an utter waste and went down the drain, because the leaders would rewind and repeat it all "for the benefit of those who just joined us." This was the worst part of being a person who is prompt and on-time for all meetings and events. If you're going to always accommodate people who are chronically late, then you don't respect my time or effort. You just slapped me in the face for being prompt when you rewound your lecture or repeated your introduction. You wasted ten minutes of my time to cater to other people who are [habitually] wasting ten minutes of everyone else's time. It was horrible and reprehensible, and there was nothing I could do to prevent it or mitigate it. What was I going to do, be late on my own? I learned about 25 years ago never to be late to anything, particularly an appointment or a job/volunteer role where I'm indispensable. I was fired as a volunteer from a very important role because I was late only once. It was a role which was strictly dependent on timing and promptness. I learned at that very moment, never to be late again, and riding public transit as I did, I always built-in at least 30 minutes of lead time so that I was super-early rather than on-time, or God forbid, late.
- wcunning 1y agoThat stopped in about 2017, right after I finished my master's degree.
- salamanderman 1y agoUC Berkeley does this too. Nobody told us freshman, and in my very first class we were all dutifully early, wondering where the professor was, and at 8 minutes after the hour the whole lecture hall was wondering if we needed to bail. Then the lecturer came in and asked what we were all doing there, didn't we know classes don't start until 10 minutes after the listed time?
- Voklen 1y agoAt St Andrews University we have the concept of an “Academic hour” where every class and lecture begins at 5 past and ends at 5 to the hour. So your 10:00-11:00 lecture is actually 10:05-10:55. I believe this is mainly to give people time to get between their classes across town and to standardise how much time one has to set up between lectures.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- SwtCyber 1y agoA rare case of institutional design that respects how people actually behave, not just how they're "supposed" to.