7 ms·

I'm getting IG videos in my feed for a company that sells after market fixes because older Teslas have such poorly designed electronics, that they fail in commo

I'm getting IG videos in my feed for a company that sells after market fixes because older Teslas have such poorly designed electronics, that they fail in common ways. The memory goes bad because they write useless logs to a chip, and it eventually fails. End users are beta testing... https://www.instagram.com/reel/DINADISyP0f/ https://www.instagram.com/reel/DINADISyP0f/

tw04 1y ago
That’s always been the case with Tesla. I still have no idea how the yoke with no progressive steering and a tiny button for a horn ever passed any sanity check. Not to mention the NHTSA.
- latchkey 1y ago
  Oh, I wish they would install tiny horn buttons on all the vehicles in Vietnam! In that country, the horn is a method of communication, much to the ire of literally everyone trying to exist.
  - gerdesj 1y ago
    Excessive horning (made up word) is not just a Vietnamese thing. Italy is probably Europe's worst offender, with Greece a close contender. I'm not so familiar with Asia, but I get the impression that the entirety of Indian and most of Chinese drivers feel the need to lean on the horn with gay abandon (fnarr). In Britain the horn is generally reserved for "fuck that was close: I think you are a bit of a tosser" or "you are driving a German car and seem to have have no indicators".
    - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
      Horns were disabled in Chongqing at least a couple of decades ago. I’m not sure what it’s like now though, but the government in China can and will deal with excessive horning using means we wouldn’t consider in the west.
      - gerdesj 1y ago
        Although things are a bit shit in many places, I do love our planet and the weird and wonderful ways it works. Were car horns disabled (broken deliberately) in Chongqing?
        seanmcdirmid 1y ago
        20 years ago each city/province was basically its own closed market. So if you were driving a car in CQ, it was probably bought and even made in CQ. They simply required that the horns be disabled. China internally is much more of a free market now, so I’m not sure how they could just disable horns anymore, although you still can’t get away with driving an outside register vehicle inside a city for very long without getting a crackdown by the police (meaning, they can enforce inspection requirements fairly easily). I’m not sure if it was really Chongqing or some other obscure city like Dalian, I’m going by hearsay 20+ years ago. More recently, Shanghai banned honking in most circumstances in 2007 (inside its outer ring), but it’s enforced with just fines.
        grumpy-de-sre 1y ago
        Was actually quite surprised by how "civilized" the driving was in our recent China trip. Don't think I heard a horn once in probably 20h or so as a passenger, did find the drivers up in Heliongjiang a bit bold with their lane weaving but in Beijing they drove great! Clear rules, and consistent enforcement works. Noticed something similar with littering, right now they have to employ an army of old folks to pick up cigarette butts. But I suspect once people come to expect clean surroundings that enforcement of littering fines can become a thing and the culture around respecting public spaces will slowly change. We even caught a young kid full on lecturing their grandparent for spitting on the street.
        seanmcdirmid 1y ago
        Dongbei drivers are famous for their interesting driving (but I’m going by hearsay and that one famous song about it). I don’t think horns were used much in Beijing even on my first trip in 1999, although I do remember the Japanese guy driving us from the airport in a Jeep using it (and also seeing lots of city buses out at night without headlights on, you don’t see that anymore). I just got back from Beijing a couple of weeks ago and honestly…the traffic is still very horrible but fairly orderly. Just too many cars and not enough roads (but it’s always been like that).
    - bluGill 1y ago
      In india if you hit someone after sounding your horn you are not at fault as you gave warning and they didn't move. (It is far more complex than that but as always the real truth is too complex for a comment box - if you are trying to drive safe it is close enough, but this isn't a license to murder), As a result all drives will honk their own if there is any possibility someone might cross in front of them. India is getting a lot stricter about driving rules, and I hven't been there for a few years. I would expect the above to change as people realize that the horn doesn't really work for that purpose anyway. But change is always slow.
      - amatecha 1y ago
        Ah wow, this explains so much about the idiot who didn't know how to use a 4-way stop and nearly drove into me the other day. I thought he's giving me a hard time, blaming me, when I had the right of way. Maybe he was just doing the "warning because he might hit" thing?
      - jabl 1y ago
        Was something like 20 years since I was in India, but IIRC at least back then they didn't have a "priority to the right" traffic rule, but rather some kind of "the one who first honks has priority". Traveling in a taxi felt suicidal, drivers just honked when approaching an intersection and continued blithely. Based on a quick googling, this seems to no more be the case, and there is a 'priority to the right" rule.
        aloisdg 1y ago
        I ride a bike for a few months in India. The honk system worked quite well. As a small vehicle, you learn your place on the road. Largest first, even if you honk. Honking at every turn in small town works ok, but it is loud. so loud.
        whstl 1y ago
        I saw something similar when visiting Latin America a few years ago, in a neighbourhood friends lived in. Some people would just go full speed in residential streets and hold the horn while crossing intersections because I guess that's what's gonna keep their car intact?
    - j-a-a-p 1y ago
      Italy pales in comparison to Vietnam.
    - Thorrez 1y ago
      Huh, I drove in Italy for a week and a half and didn't notice excessive honking. I did notice tons and tons of tailgating.
      - brabel 1y ago
        Italy is really 2 countries, north and south are quite distinct.
        whstl 1y ago
        What's the difference between them in terms of driving?
        PopePompus 1y ago
        Where ever you are in Italy, you will be told by locals that you can't trust anyone from a town south of that place.
        widforss 1y ago
        Even in Lampedusa?
      - Hikikomori 1y ago
        Try driving in Naples.
        IncreasePosts 1y ago
        Naples is the first place I got honked at for not cutting the person off. I was at a stop sign, making a left turn onto a main road that had a steady stream of traffic. Apparently, I was supposed to wait a few seconds and then just creep out, cutting cars off on the way, which is what I believe the driver on the main road meant when he beeped at me and gesticulated wildly while I was sitting still at the stop sign.
        jq-r 1y ago
    - stef25 1y ago
      In Asia it's mainly used to signal your presence, like when you're overtaking someone. Just a little tap of the horn. Just the fact that you hear it say in the right corner behind you will make you not swerve in that direction. It's almost subconscious and really does improve safety imho. You can't possibly visually scan for all vehicles around you. The result of course is that there's a non stop cacophony, in places like Hanoi it REALLY gets to you after a while. Here in EU if someone honks at you it's considered rude and will make me really react with wtf is your problem. Out in Asia it's completely normal.
      - PetitPrince 1y ago
        It's been a while since I've been to Vietnam but most of the traffic is composed of motorcycle and not cars, so honking is indeed a signal of presence that's needed compared to just having the noise of a single car that's behind you. (crossing the street is also kind of surreal as it's more like going through a school of fish; the trick is to walk at a steady pace to maximize your position predictability)
      - darkwater 1y ago
        When I got my driving license too many years ago in Italy, they taught me that a brief honk when taking over in interurban roads is actually mandatory (but nobody did it). I don't know if that rule stayed the same as they harmonized more and more the road rules to the European ones.
    - stevoski 1y ago
      Lebanon. Especially Beirut. The honking. Every taxi driver that passed me if I was walking down the street. Honking. Honking. So much noise. All the time. Six months I was there. Six months of honking honking honking.
      - jq-r 1y ago
        Unfortunately like every city in Egypt. They have a hand permanently on a horn button.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - noisy_boy 1y ago
    I have experience of both Vietnam and India amongst other countries. The latter takes any country, including Vietnam, you can throw at it and wipes the floor with them when it comes to mindless honking.
  - ErrorNoBrain 1y ago
    and here you can get a 100 euro fine, for using your horn. You can only use it, if its to prevent an accident from happening. that's it.
    - qmr 1y ago
      https://www.roadpeace.org/working-for-change/crash-not-accident/ https://www.roadpeace.org/working-for-change/crash-not-accid...
- homefree 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - rossjudson 1y ago
    It makes me sad that a bunch of people who've never used/adjusted to the Tesla yoke are all but guaranteeing (via whining) that yokes are going to disappear. The yoke is great after you've adjusted to it, and I don't care about proportional steering at all. That's complexity I don't need.
    - homefree 1y ago
      Yeah it’s a better design, particularly with the driver screen and it took me 10 minutes to get used to it. I also prefer no stalks.
    - qwerpy 1y ago
      The proportional steering with a yoke on their trucks is awesome. I did not want a yoke, but I wanted the truck and had no choice. I now can’t imagine going back to any other kind of steering. You acclimate to it within minutes.
    - SR2Z 1y ago
      Yokes will be fine - but only BECAUSE they can have variable ratios now. Frankly, there are a lot of quirky design choices on a Tesla that make them unpleasant for me to drive: - not being able to coast/disable regenerative braking - the current implementation of the yoke and capacitive buttons outside the CT - placing FSD/cruise on the shifter I don't think these are "get used to it" things, I think they're actually worse UX for most people. I also think that Tesla implemented every single one as cost-cutting measures on a supposedly "luxury" car that's now falling further and further behind the competition.
  - unethical_ban 1y ago
    My Mazda from 2014 has this innovative feature: a digital control mechanism for my climate control, with real knobs! No more navigating menus and swiping across touchscreens to adjust temperature. And if I want to change the direction of the airflow? I just move the vent!
iknowstuff 1y ago
You’re using a software fault which wore out the flash as evidence of poorly designed electronics?
- amatecha 1y ago
  How is writing excessive logs to a destined-to-fail flash chip in a car's electronics system not a poor design choice? Pretend the person wrote "poorly-designed electronics implementations/sytems" or similar, because that's obviously the intended meaning.
- mavamaarten 1y ago
  If the flash was better, the product wouldn't fail so quickly. It's really a combination of poorly designed electronics, and a software bug wasn't there, the fault wouldn't have popped up so early.
  - iknowstuff 1y ago
    All solid state chips have a write limit
- HelloNurse 1y ago
  it isn't a software fault, it's a whole defective system that was designed poorly end-to-end: the software does something inappropriate, which the hardware cannot bear, probably because of a high level mandate to write too many logs and to be too cheap.
loeg 1y ago
> The memory goes bad because they write useless logs to a chip, and it eventually fails. I worked for a $ ~billions revenue software storage vendor who had the exact same issue (excessive logging wearing out under-spec'd flash drives).
- DanielHB 1y ago
  We had the exact same issue as well haha These kind of problems only happen years after the software roll out so no one cares when you are under time pressure.
  - loeg 1y ago
    We sold physical hardware with bundled software, so we could actually create the problem via in-market software update that didn't exist at time of sale! Fun times.
- namaria 1y ago
  The bane of every cargo cult cloud op. I worked with a company that had maybe 20 devs total, > 30 "microservices" in kubernetes and one of the most complex bits of the deployment was handling Greylog and Elasticsearch. Still they couldn't manage high availability, despite logging all the things. Go figure.
  - whstl 1y ago
    I once worked for a unicorn that got near-zero traffic during the pandemic, but nobody could understand why some services were struggling to stay up. Datadog was costing several thousand euros per month despite near-absent customer traffic. But the name made finally sense because all the data in there was absolute dog shit from reboots. So yeah too much logging can be bad.
    - namaria 1y ago
      Oh most definitely. Maybe my sarcasm was a bit too subtle. I definitely think that teams should think about what to log. Otherwise go with a live image kind of system like Smalltalk of LISP. The whole event sourcing paradigm and trying to just log everything and look at it later strike me as a poor reconstruction of that concept. There is a tragic aspect to the "Worse is Better" essay that I see play out everywhere: there is a way to do something correctly but just throwing something together wins the race to market. Winner takes all and we're stuck with ossified bad decisions from the past. The idea that we can fix it later is just a lie. You can't do the foundation later, you'll be stuck with a structurally unsound edifice and forever holding it together under a completely unnecessary cognitive load.

tw04 1y ago

That’s always been the case with Tesla. I still have no idea how the yoke with no progressive steering and a tiny button for a horn ever passed any sanity check. Not to mention the NHTSA.

latchkey 1y ago
Oh, I wish they would install tiny horn buttons on all the vehicles in Vietnam! In that country, the horn is a method of communication, much to the ire of literally everyone trying to exist.
- gerdesj 1y ago
  Excessive horning (made up word) is not just a Vietnamese thing. Italy is probably Europe's worst offender, with Greece a close contender. I'm not so familiar with Asia, but I get the impression that the entirety of Indian and most of Chinese drivers feel the need to lean on the horn with gay abandon (fnarr). In Britain the horn is generally reserved for "fuck that was close: I think you are a bit of a tosser" or "you are driving a German car and seem to have have no indicators".
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    Horns were disabled in Chongqing at least a couple of decades ago. I’m not sure what it’s like now though, but the government in China can and will deal with excessive horning using means we wouldn’t consider in the west.
    - gerdesj 1y ago
      Although things are a bit shit in many places, I do love our planet and the weird and wonderful ways it works. Were car horns disabled (broken deliberately) in Chongqing?
      - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
        20 years ago each city/province was basically its own closed market. So if you were driving a car in CQ, it was probably bought and even made in CQ. They simply required that the horns be disabled. China internally is much more of a free market now, so I’m not sure how they could just disable horns anymore, although you still can’t get away with driving an outside register vehicle inside a city for very long without getting a crackdown by the police (meaning, they can enforce inspection requirements fairly easily). I’m not sure if it was really Chongqing or some other obscure city like Dalian, I’m going by hearsay 20+ years ago. More recently, Shanghai banned honking in most circumstances in 2007 (inside its outer ring), but it’s enforced with just fines.
        grumpy-de-sre 1y ago
        Was actually quite surprised by how "civilized" the driving was in our recent China trip. Don't think I heard a horn once in probably 20h or so as a passenger, did find the drivers up in Heliongjiang a bit bold with their lane weaving but in Beijing they drove great! Clear rules, and consistent enforcement works. Noticed something similar with littering, right now they have to employ an army of old folks to pick up cigarette butts. But I suspect once people come to expect clean surroundings that enforcement of littering fines can become a thing and the culture around respecting public spaces will slowly change. We even caught a young kid full on lecturing their grandparent for spitting on the street.
        seanmcdirmid 1y ago
        Dongbei drivers are famous for their interesting driving (but I’m going by hearsay and that one famous song about it). I don’t think horns were used much in Beijing even on my first trip in 1999, although I do remember the Japanese guy driving us from the airport in a Jeep using it (and also seeing lots of city buses out at night without headlights on, you don’t see that anymore). I just got back from Beijing a couple of weeks ago and honestly…the traffic is still very horrible but fairly orderly. Just too many cars and not enough roads (but it’s always been like that).
  - bluGill 1y ago
    In india if you hit someone after sounding your horn you are not at fault as you gave warning and they didn't move. (It is far more complex than that but as always the real truth is too complex for a comment box - if you are trying to drive safe it is close enough, but this isn't a license to murder), As a result all drives will honk their own if there is any possibility someone might cross in front of them. India is getting a lot stricter about driving rules, and I hven't been there for a few years. I would expect the above to change as people realize that the horn doesn't really work for that purpose anyway. But change is always slow.
    - amatecha 1y ago
      Ah wow, this explains so much about the idiot who didn't know how to use a 4-way stop and nearly drove into me the other day. I thought he's giving me a hard time, blaming me, when I had the right of way. Maybe he was just doing the "warning because he might hit" thing?
    - jabl 1y ago
      Was something like 20 years since I was in India, but IIRC at least back then they didn't have a "priority to the right" traffic rule, but rather some kind of "the one who first honks has priority". Traveling in a taxi felt suicidal, drivers just honked when approaching an intersection and continued blithely. Based on a quick googling, this seems to no more be the case, and there is a 'priority to the right" rule.
      - aloisdg 1y ago
        I ride a bike for a few months in India. The honk system worked quite well. As a small vehicle, you learn your place on the road. Largest first, even if you honk. Honking at every turn in small town works ok, but it is loud. so loud.
      - whstl 1y ago
        I saw something similar when visiting Latin America a few years ago, in a neighbourhood friends lived in. Some people would just go full speed in residential streets and hold the horn while crossing intersections because I guess that's what's gonna keep their car intact?
  - j-a-a-p 1y ago
    Italy pales in comparison to Vietnam.
  - Thorrez 1y ago
    Huh, I drove in Italy for a week and a half and didn't notice excessive honking. I did notice tons and tons of tailgating.
    - brabel 1y ago
      Italy is really 2 countries, north and south are quite distinct.
      - whstl 1y ago
        What's the difference between them in terms of driving?
      - PopePompus 1y ago
        Where ever you are in Italy, you will be told by locals that you can't trust anyone from a town south of that place.
        widforss 1y ago
        Even in Lampedusa?
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      Try driving in Naples.
      - IncreasePosts 1y ago
        Naples is the first place I got honked at for not cutting the person off. I was at a stop sign, making a left turn onto a main road that had a steady stream of traffic. Apparently, I was supposed to wait a few seconds and then just creep out, cutting cars off on the way, which is what I believe the driver on the main road meant when he beeped at me and gesticulated wildly while I was sitting still at the stop sign.
        jq-r 1y ago
  - stef25 1y ago
    In Asia it's mainly used to signal your presence, like when you're overtaking someone. Just a little tap of the horn. Just the fact that you hear it say in the right corner behind you will make you not swerve in that direction. It's almost subconscious and really does improve safety imho. You can't possibly visually scan for all vehicles around you. The result of course is that there's a non stop cacophony, in places like Hanoi it REALLY gets to you after a while. Here in EU if someone honks at you it's considered rude and will make me really react with wtf is your problem. Out in Asia it's completely normal.
    - PetitPrince 1y ago
      It's been a while since I've been to Vietnam but most of the traffic is composed of motorcycle and not cars, so honking is indeed a signal of presence that's needed compared to just having the noise of a single car that's behind you. (crossing the street is also kind of surreal as it's more like going through a school of fish; the trick is to walk at a steady pace to maximize your position predictability)
    - darkwater 1y ago
      When I got my driving license too many years ago in Italy, they taught me that a brief honk when taking over in interurban roads is actually mandatory (but nobody did it). I don't know if that rule stayed the same as they harmonized more and more the road rules to the European ones.
  - stevoski 1y ago
    Lebanon. Especially Beirut. The honking. Every taxi driver that passed me if I was walking down the street. Honking. Honking. So much noise. All the time. Six months I was there. Six months of honking honking honking.
    - jq-r 1y ago
      Unfortunately like every city in Egypt. They have a hand permanently on a horn button.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- noisy_boy 1y ago
  I have experience of both Vietnam and India amongst other countries. The latter takes any country, including Vietnam, you can throw at it and wipes the floor with them when it comes to mindless honking.
- ErrorNoBrain 1y ago
  and here you can get a 100 euro fine, for using your horn. You can only use it, if its to prevent an accident from happening. that's it.
  - qmr 1y ago
    https://www.roadpeace.org/working-for-change/crash-not-accident/ https://www.roadpeace.org/working-for-change/crash-not-accid...
homefree 1y ago
[flagged]
- rossjudson 1y ago
  It makes me sad that a bunch of people who've never used/adjusted to the Tesla yoke are all but guaranteeing (via whining) that yokes are going to disappear. The yoke is great after you've adjusted to it, and I don't care about proportional steering at all. That's complexity I don't need.
  - homefree 1y ago
    Yeah it’s a better design, particularly with the driver screen and it took me 10 minutes to get used to it. I also prefer no stalks.
  - qwerpy 1y ago
    The proportional steering with a yoke on their trucks is awesome. I did not want a yoke, but I wanted the truck and had no choice. I now can’t imagine going back to any other kind of steering. You acclimate to it within minutes.
  - SR2Z 1y ago
    Yokes will be fine - but only BECAUSE they can have variable ratios now. Frankly, there are a lot of quirky design choices on a Tesla that make them unpleasant for me to drive: - not being able to coast/disable regenerative braking - the current implementation of the yoke and capacitive buttons outside the CT - placing FSD/cruise on the shifter I don't think these are "get used to it" things, I think they're actually worse UX for most people. I also think that Tesla implemented every single one as cost-cutting measures on a supposedly "luxury" car that's now falling further and further behind the competition.
- unethical_ban 1y ago
  My Mazda from 2014 has this innovative feature: a digital control mechanism for my climate control, with real knobs! No more navigating menus and swiping across touchscreens to adjust temperature. And if I want to change the direction of the airflow? I just move the vent!

iknowstuff 1y ago

You’re using a software fault which wore out the flash as evidence of poorly designed electronics?

amatecha 1y ago
How is writing excessive logs to a destined-to-fail flash chip in a car's electronics system not a poor design choice? Pretend the person wrote "poorly-designed electronics implementations/sytems" or similar, because that's obviously the intended meaning.
mavamaarten 1y ago
If the flash was better, the product wouldn't fail so quickly. It's really a combination of poorly designed electronics, and a software bug wasn't there, the fault wouldn't have popped up so early.
- iknowstuff 1y ago
  All solid state chips have a write limit
HelloNurse 1y ago
it isn't a software fault, it's a whole defective system that was designed poorly end-to-end: the software does something inappropriate, which the hardware cannot bear, probably because of a high level mandate to write too many logs and to be too cheap.

loeg 1y ago

> The memory goes bad because they write useless logs to a chip, and it eventually fails. I worked for a $ ~billions revenue software storage vendor who had the exact same issue (excessive logging wearing out under-spec'd flash drives).

DanielHB 1y ago
We had the exact same issue as well haha These kind of problems only happen years after the software roll out so no one cares when you are under time pressure.
- loeg 1y ago
  We sold physical hardware with bundled software, so we could actually create the problem via in-market software update that didn't exist at time of sale! Fun times.
namaria 1y ago
The bane of every cargo cult cloud op. I worked with a company that had maybe 20 devs total, > 30 "microservices" in kubernetes and one of the most complex bits of the deployment was handling Greylog and Elasticsearch. Still they couldn't manage high availability, despite logging all the things. Go figure.
- whstl 1y ago
  I once worked for a unicorn that got near-zero traffic during the pandemic, but nobody could understand why some services were struggling to stay up. Datadog was costing several thousand euros per month despite near-absent customer traffic. But the name made finally sense because all the data in there was absolute dog shit from reboots. So yeah too much logging can be bad.
  - namaria 1y ago
    Oh most definitely. Maybe my sarcasm was a bit too subtle. I definitely think that teams should think about what to log. Otherwise go with a live image kind of system like Smalltalk of LISP. The whole event sourcing paradigm and trying to just log everything and look at it later strike me as a poor reconstruction of that concept. There is a tragic aspect to the "Worse is Better" essay that I see play out everywhere: there is a way to do something correctly but just throwing something together wins the race to market. Winner takes all and we're stuck with ossified bad decisions from the past. The idea that we can fix it later is just a lie. You can't do the foundation later, you'll be stuck with a structurally unsound edifice and forever holding it together under a completely unnecessary cognitive load.