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China has the upper hand and the US is being run by morons. With the US cutting itself off from the largest supplier of electronics while simultaneously destroy

China has the upper hand and the US is being run by morons. With the US cutting itself off from the largest supplier of electronics while simultaneously destroying the basic research infrastructure that keeps America on the bleeding edge you can expect a brain drain towards Europe and Asia. The damage from this administration will last generations.

x0x0 1y ago
We are being run by abject morons who will never be able to understand simple truths, one of which is China is in a far stronger position: their factories are missing dollars. We are missing goods. One of those is easy for a central bank / government to replace. Watching these people discover where the world's rare earths come from is equally amazing and terrifying.
- nickff 1y ago
  Rare earth metals aren’t very rare, they’re just messy to extract and refine. There are reasons that the Chinese (government) want so many dollars, and the external funds are not easy to replace (or they would have done it already). This is not to support the current trade ‘war’, but just to point out that it’s a bit more complicated than you can describe in a pithy comment.
- seanp2k2 1y ago
  Don't worry, we'll just mine everything we need ourselves in the active warzones in Ukraine! I bet Yosemite has tons of the rare earth we need, we just have to dynamite everything in there to find it! /s
  - monocasa 1y ago
    I swear to god, if we set off the Yosemite supervolcano from heavy mining there...
    - BobaFloutist 1y ago
      The supervolcano is in the other iconic, international-destination national park starting with Y, Yellowstone.
  - photonthug 1y ago
    The sooner we kill all the animals, the quicker we can find where they are hiding all their gold.
- PKop 1y ago
  What do you think the point of rebalancing trade is? To get out of dependence on foreign suppliers. "China's economy, copmposed of massive domestic production, industrial capacity, and manufacturing inputs is in a stronger position" Yes, sounds like something that should be changed to increase the strength of the US. China has protectionist economic policy and trade barriers. If that equals strength why shouldn't we do it too?
  - no_wizard 1y ago
    >If that equals strength why shouldn't we do it too? Tall order to prove this. Does it actually equal strength? What is strength and does China actually have said strength? None of this is defined. Additionally, China has economic policies that if the US followed would be very, like the games they play with their currency valuation for example. They also have stringent capital controls, many of their largest businesses are the government has a large slice of the ownership, they subsidize export corporations to a much broader degree etc. Are you also arguing for those things as well? Because its not simply tariffs that mark the only difference in economic policy between the US and China The other asinine thing is we implemented tariffs against all countries, without a plan, and without a definitive proven reason as to why. As many economists have pointed out, the trade deficit is very deceiving and does not equate to there being a problem for the US inherently.
    - x0x0 1y ago
      > without a definitive proven reason as to why. profound, comprehensive stupidity
  - mindslight 1y ago
    The current nonsense is the opposite of strength - it is empty bluster, based on ideas two decades out of date, by a "man" who talks like he's had a frontal lobotomy and who can't even sit on a chair properly. Actually righting the severe damage done to our industrial base would take constructive direction by the government to build it back - once again the complete opposite of what they're actually doing by attacking our still-existing educational/research institutions. At best high tariff taxes are just closing the barn door long after the horse ran away. But really it's just the same old pattern of the same type of hollow politicians using pent up frustration about the last scam to drive support for their next scam.
- libertine 1y ago
  But now Greenland being annexed through military means is on the table - we can't make this up.
  - pstuart 1y ago
    I just learned why the interest -- apparently the TechBros™ have eyes on using Greenland to host their new corporate city states.
Workaccount2 1y ago
But think of the coal mining jobs... In all seriousness though, China is also not some young slick economic powerhouse. It's largely propped up facade with serious structural issues that the US doesn't have. Also keep in mind that while countries are annoyed with the US, that doesn't mean they are going to welcome Chinese ships into their waters.
- bilbo0s 1y ago
  At this point that ship has sailed. I think the answer fairly conclusively in the global south is that, yes, yes they will let Chinese ships in their waters. It will be bizarro-land if we have people in Kenya, Colombia, South Africa, and Peru driving around in 10000 dollar Chinese EVs and using 5000 dollar Chinese robots to clean their homes. While we pay 5 to 10 times that for the same conveniences. I seriously think there's a really good chance the world 25 years from now may have a fundamentally different structure than it has had for the past 100 years.
  - pclmulqdq 1y ago
    It's time to open your eyes to the way the rest of the world lives because "bizzaro land" is basically here. Cheap Chinese roomba replacements clean people's homes, $15000 Chinese EVs are insanely popular, and the price of all these goods certified for the US market is 200-300% higher, so many Chinese companies don't bother.
  - Izkata 1y ago
    Some quick searches on car costs and converting between South African rand and USD, it looks like US consumers already pay around 2-3x as much for a car (just in general using averages, didn't look for specific models or EVs).
    - alabastervlog 1y ago
      Car prices in the US are way up over the last few years—prices, which were already trending up, spiked with "Covid shortages" and then just kept going up after those should have been alleviated. Was the ratio as bad in, say, 2015? (I really don't know)
littlecorner 1y ago
The brain drain started decades ago. We've been importing people for STEM jobs and exporting manufacturing for a while, leaving behind large numbers of people with no hope for a better future. Now the rest of the country faces that prospect as well
- deepsquirrelnet 1y ago
  Yep, was there 20 years ago. The secret is having first class universities and a stable, thriving economy that attracts bright students. American exceptionalism is that momentum. The brightest people in the world want to come here and contribute to our economy and spend the money they earn here at your businesses. That’s a privilege, and it’s too bad we don’t value it more.
  - worik 1y ago
    > The brightest people in the world want to come here Not any more. Not the women, the queer, poc...
20after4 1y ago
I think it's worse than generations. It will likely never recover. What's happening resembles when private equity takes over a company and runs it into the ground intentionally.

x0x0 1y ago

We are being run by abject morons who will never be able to understand simple truths, one of which is China is in a far stronger position: their factories are missing dollars. We are missing goods. One of those is easy for a central bank / government to replace. Watching these people discover where the world's rare earths come from is equally amazing and terrifying.

nickff 1y ago
Rare earth metals aren’t very rare, they’re just messy to extract and refine. There are reasons that the Chinese (government) want so many dollars, and the external funds are not easy to replace (or they would have done it already). This is not to support the current trade ‘war’, but just to point out that it’s a bit more complicated than you can describe in a pithy comment.
seanp2k2 1y ago
Don't worry, we'll just mine everything we need ourselves in the active warzones in Ukraine! I bet Yosemite has tons of the rare earth we need, we just have to dynamite everything in there to find it! /s
- monocasa 1y ago
  I swear to god, if we set off the Yosemite supervolcano from heavy mining there...
  - BobaFloutist 1y ago
    The supervolcano is in the other iconic, international-destination national park starting with Y, Yellowstone.
- photonthug 1y ago
  The sooner we kill all the animals, the quicker we can find where they are hiding all their gold.
PKop 1y ago
What do you think the point of rebalancing trade is? To get out of dependence on foreign suppliers. "China's economy, copmposed of massive domestic production, industrial capacity, and manufacturing inputs is in a stronger position" Yes, sounds like something that should be changed to increase the strength of the US. China has protectionist economic policy and trade barriers. If that equals strength why shouldn't we do it too?
- no_wizard 1y ago
  >If that equals strength why shouldn't we do it too? Tall order to prove this. Does it actually equal strength? What is strength and does China actually have said strength? None of this is defined. Additionally, China has economic policies that if the US followed would be very, like the games they play with their currency valuation for example. They also have stringent capital controls, many of their largest businesses are the government has a large slice of the ownership, they subsidize export corporations to a much broader degree etc. Are you also arguing for those things as well? Because its not simply tariffs that mark the only difference in economic policy between the US and China The other asinine thing is we implemented tariffs against all countries, without a plan, and without a definitive proven reason as to why. As many economists have pointed out, the trade deficit is very deceiving and does not equate to there being a problem for the US inherently.
  - x0x0 1y ago
    > without a definitive proven reason as to why. profound, comprehensive stupidity
- mindslight 1y ago
  The current nonsense is the opposite of strength - it is empty bluster, based on ideas two decades out of date, by a "man" who talks like he's had a frontal lobotomy and who can't even sit on a chair properly. Actually righting the severe damage done to our industrial base would take constructive direction by the government to build it back - once again the complete opposite of what they're actually doing by attacking our still-existing educational/research institutions. At best high tariff taxes are just closing the barn door long after the horse ran away. But really it's just the same old pattern of the same type of hollow politicians using pent up frustration about the last scam to drive support for their next scam.
libertine 1y ago
But now Greenland being annexed through military means is on the table - we can't make this up.
- pstuart 1y ago
  I just learned why the interest -- apparently the TechBros™ have eyes on using Greenland to host their new corporate city states.

Workaccount2 1y ago

But think of the coal mining jobs... In all seriousness though, China is also not some young slick economic powerhouse. It's largely propped up facade with serious structural issues that the US doesn't have. Also keep in mind that while countries are annoyed with the US, that doesn't mean they are going to welcome Chinese ships into their waters.

bilbo0s 1y ago
At this point that ship has sailed. I think the answer fairly conclusively in the global south is that, yes, yes they will let Chinese ships in their waters. It will be bizarro-land if we have people in Kenya, Colombia, South Africa, and Peru driving around in 10000 dollar Chinese EVs and using 5000 dollar Chinese robots to clean their homes. While we pay 5 to 10 times that for the same conveniences. I seriously think there's a really good chance the world 25 years from now may have a fundamentally different structure than it has had for the past 100 years.
- pclmulqdq 1y ago
  It's time to open your eyes to the way the rest of the world lives because "bizzaro land" is basically here. Cheap Chinese roomba replacements clean people's homes, $15000 Chinese EVs are insanely popular, and the price of all these goods certified for the US market is 200-300% higher, so many Chinese companies don't bother.
- Izkata 1y ago
  Some quick searches on car costs and converting between South African rand and USD, it looks like US consumers already pay around 2-3x as much for a car (just in general using averages, didn't look for specific models or EVs).
  - alabastervlog 1y ago
    Car prices in the US are way up over the last few years—prices, which were already trending up, spiked with "Covid shortages" and then just kept going up after those should have been alleviated. Was the ratio as bad in, say, 2015? (I really don't know)

littlecorner 1y ago

The brain drain started decades ago. We've been importing people for STEM jobs and exporting manufacturing for a while, leaving behind large numbers of people with no hope for a better future. Now the rest of the country faces that prospect as well

deepsquirrelnet 1y ago
Yep, was there 20 years ago. The secret is having first class universities and a stable, thriving economy that attracts bright students. American exceptionalism is that momentum. The brightest people in the world want to come here and contribute to our economy and spend the money they earn here at your businesses. That’s a privilege, and it’s too bad we don’t value it more.
- worik 1y ago
  > The brightest people in the world want to come here Not any more. Not the women, the queer, poc...

20after4 1y ago

I think it's worse than generations. It will likely never recover. What's happening resembles when private equity takes over a company and runs it into the ground intentionally.