5 ms·

What would a meaningful fight look like?

pluc 1y ago
Look at Georgia, look at Serbia, look at the Arab Spring. Look at your constitution! There is a part in there about resistance to oppression you seem to only use to defend the wrong things.
- adamors 1y ago
  Did you look at Georgia and Serbia yourself? Protests have been ongoing for months, government doesn't care.
  - pluc 1y ago
    They don't have armed revolution enshrined in their constitution
    - ToValueFunfetti 1y ago
      If arms are the important component, what wrong things are you saying we exclusively use that part of the constitution to defend? I don't think that part is used for much else
      - pluc 1y ago
        The only time you hear of the second amendment is to justify having guns after a massacre. Yet here we are, literally a textbook case of it, and crickets. I'm against guns and gun violence, but Americans aren't.
        ToValueFunfetti 1y ago
        I don't think being against guns and gun violence is compatible with encouraging armed revolution.
        pluc 1y ago
        If that's what you need to remove the mental roadblock needed to deal with the actual topic then sure, call me pro-gun. If your constitution gave you the right to bear sharpened spoons, I'd be asking about that, too.
        ToValueFunfetti 1y ago
        This is the actual topic. You said that it is bad that Americans use the second amendment to justify having guns and good for them to use them in an act of mass political violence to stop tarriffs on filming locations and science budget cuts. The other three positions are coherent: have guns and use them, have guns and don't use them, don't have guns and don't use them. If someone is going to assert that my countrymen should take up arms- putting myself, my family, and my friends at mortal risk- over taxes and budget decisions, they can at least admit that their frame means it's quite good that we kept the guns despite the mass shootings. I'm not going to operate on a hairpin trigger on advice from a self-proclaimed pacifist, you know?
        int_19h 1y ago
        The Americans who have the guns tend to also be the ones who support this government.
hagbarth 1y ago
Impeachment. There have been multiple clearly impeachable offences by the current administration. The congress GOP should take responsibility for getting the US out of this.
- mopenstein 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - free_bip 1y ago
    I'd like to see what this list of "clearly impeachable offenses for every president since Washington" looks like
    - lawn 1y ago
      Obama wore a tan suit once.
      - aredox 1y ago
        Oh, yeah! And remember the furious response when Obama put his feet on the Resolute desk? The absolute gall of the fiend! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3vuDurisp0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3vuDurisp0
    - decremental 1y ago
      [dead]
- redeux 1y ago
  Let’s be honest, that’s not a realistic solution. The GOP is completely onboard with what he’s doing, so suggesting they take care of it is just admitting defeat.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
    A key question that I'm not sure can be answered: among Republican reps and senators, what is the ratio of "on board with it all" to "terrified of what will happen to themselves if they don't appear to be on board"? If the "terrified" camp is sufficiently large, their terror can be overridden with a sufficiently large swing in public opinion. They're potentially movable. The true believers...not sure if anything can move them. If the "on board" camp is (nearly) all Republican legislators, then there is no path to impeachment. It will be interesting to see how things evolve as the economic impacts of Trump's policies develop. That's probably the most direct path to the level of public opinion shift needed to make impeachment possible.
perlgeek 1y ago
General strike, for example.
- Symbiote 1y ago
  HN employees of X, Tesla, SpaceX (etc), Meta, Alphabet and other tech businesses supporting Trump could also strike or threaten to strike to pressure their owners/boards.
- pjc50 1y ago
  Those are incredibly hard to organize. It's going to be a long slow process of firstly making sure that all Democrats are actually anti-Trump through primary challenges, then trying to ensure a D sweep in the mid-term elections. I don't think there's much chance of anything before then.
  - pluc 1y ago
    So the second amendment is only for mass shootings then? How is this not exactly what it's for?
investa 1y ago
Look at Spain right now. Not sure I agree with the anti tourism cause but man they know how to cause a fuss.
lm28469 1y ago
idk man last time France raised the gas price by like 10% people were in the streets every weekend for a year, often blocking highways, warehouses, at its peak ~3 million people were in the streets, they got so close to Macron's castle he had his helicopter prepared to flee the capital It ended up with 11 deaths, thousands of injured, thousands of people were arrested hundreds went to jail. Look at Serbia, Greece, damn even Turkey seems to put a better fight lol https://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2018/12/13/gilets-jaunes-samedi-8-decembre-un-helicoptere-etait-pret-a-exfiltrer-macron-de-l-elysee https://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2018/12/13/gilets-ja...
- viraptor 1y ago
  Although the precise numbers are uncertain, the Hands Off protests have definitely crossed 2M in the US already. We'll see if they stop or not.
  - Spooky23 1y ago
    The current protests are terrible. The loudest mobilized voices are the pro-Palestinian people, who are a wet blanket on a protest as they don’t have wide support. We need more angrier people.
  - tremon 1y ago
    Comparing these mobilization figures against the countries' populations: France: 3M/70M ~ 4% US: 2M/350M ~ .5% The US needs roughly a tenfold increase in numbers to match France.
jpambrun 1y ago
If this happened here in Canada, I would go to weekly protests against this administration. When I was younger I went to dozens of daily protest for something insignificant in comparison [1] and it did lead to a change of gouvernement. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Quebec_student_protests https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Quebec_student_protests
grubbs 1y ago
Something like OWS - but outside the Whitehouse?

pluc 1y ago

Look at Georgia, look at Serbia, look at the Arab Spring. Look at your constitution! There is a part in there about resistance to oppression you seem to only use to defend the wrong things.

adamors 1y ago
Did you look at Georgia and Serbia yourself? Protests have been ongoing for months, government doesn't care.
- pluc 1y ago
  They don't have armed revolution enshrined in their constitution
  - ToValueFunfetti 1y ago
    If arms are the important component, what wrong things are you saying we exclusively use that part of the constitution to defend? I don't think that part is used for much else
    - pluc 1y ago
      The only time you hear of the second amendment is to justify having guns after a massacre. Yet here we are, literally a textbook case of it, and crickets. I'm against guns and gun violence, but Americans aren't.
      - ToValueFunfetti 1y ago
        I don't think being against guns and gun violence is compatible with encouraging armed revolution.
        pluc 1y ago
        If that's what you need to remove the mental roadblock needed to deal with the actual topic then sure, call me pro-gun. If your constitution gave you the right to bear sharpened spoons, I'd be asking about that, too.
        ToValueFunfetti 1y ago
        This is the actual topic. You said that it is bad that Americans use the second amendment to justify having guns and good for them to use them in an act of mass political violence to stop tarriffs on filming locations and science budget cuts. The other three positions are coherent: have guns and use them, have guns and don't use them, don't have guns and don't use them. If someone is going to assert that my countrymen should take up arms- putting myself, my family, and my friends at mortal risk- over taxes and budget decisions, they can at least admit that their frame means it's quite good that we kept the guns despite the mass shootings. I'm not going to operate on a hairpin trigger on advice from a self-proclaimed pacifist, you know?
      - int_19h 1y ago
        The Americans who have the guns tend to also be the ones who support this government.

hagbarth 1y ago

Impeachment. There have been multiple clearly impeachable offences by the current administration. The congress GOP should take responsibility for getting the US out of this.

mopenstein 1y ago
[flagged]
- free_bip 1y ago
  I'd like to see what this list of "clearly impeachable offenses for every president since Washington" looks like
  - lawn 1y ago
    Obama wore a tan suit once.
    - aredox 1y ago
      Oh, yeah! And remember the furious response when Obama put his feet on the Resolute desk? The absolute gall of the fiend! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3vuDurisp0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3vuDurisp0
  - decremental 1y ago
    [dead]
redeux 1y ago
Let’s be honest, that’s not a realistic solution. The GOP is completely onboard with what he’s doing, so suggesting they take care of it is just admitting defeat.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 1y ago
  A key question that I'm not sure can be answered: among Republican reps and senators, what is the ratio of "on board with it all" to "terrified of what will happen to themselves if they don't appear to be on board"? If the "terrified" camp is sufficiently large, their terror can be overridden with a sufficiently large swing in public opinion. They're potentially movable. The true believers...not sure if anything can move them. If the "on board" camp is (nearly) all Republican legislators, then there is no path to impeachment. It will be interesting to see how things evolve as the economic impacts of Trump's policies develop. That's probably the most direct path to the level of public opinion shift needed to make impeachment possible.

perlgeek 1y ago

General strike, for example.

Symbiote 1y ago
HN employees of X, Tesla, SpaceX (etc), Meta, Alphabet and other tech businesses supporting Trump could also strike or threaten to strike to pressure their owners/boards.
pjc50 1y ago
Those are incredibly hard to organize. It's going to be a long slow process of firstly making sure that all Democrats are actually anti-Trump through primary challenges, then trying to ensure a D sweep in the mid-term elections. I don't think there's much chance of anything before then.
- pluc 1y ago
  So the second amendment is only for mass shootings then? How is this not exactly what it's for?

investa 1y ago

Look at Spain right now. Not sure I agree with the anti tourism cause but man they know how to cause a fuss.

lm28469 1y ago

idk man last time France raised the gas price by like 10% people were in the streets every weekend for a year, often blocking highways, warehouses, at its peak ~3 million people were in the streets, they got so close to Macron's castle he had his helicopter prepared to flee the capital It ended up with 11 deaths, thousands of injured, thousands of people were arrested hundreds went to jail. Look at Serbia, Greece, damn even Turkey seems to put a better fight lol https://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2018/12/13/gilets-jaunes-samedi-8-decembre-un-helicoptere-etait-pret-a-exfiltrer-macron-de-l-elysee https://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2018/12/13/gilets-ja...

viraptor 1y ago
Although the precise numbers are uncertain, the Hands Off protests have definitely crossed 2M in the US already. We'll see if they stop or not.
- Spooky23 1y ago
  The current protests are terrible. The loudest mobilized voices are the pro-Palestinian people, who are a wet blanket on a protest as they don’t have wide support. We need more angrier people.
- tremon 1y ago
  Comparing these mobilization figures against the countries' populations: France: 3M/70M ~ 4% US: 2M/350M ~ .5% The US needs roughly a tenfold increase in numbers to match France.

jpambrun 1y ago

If this happened here in Canada, I would go to weekly protests against this administration. When I was younger I went to dozens of daily protest for something insignificant in comparison [1] and it did lead to a change of gouvernement. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Quebec_student_protests https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Quebec_student_protests

grubbs 1y ago

Something like OWS - but outside the Whitehouse?