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> the wireless headset was the killer app [for Bluetooth] in its early days But the wireless headset is now a horrifying millstone making Bluetooth look like t

> the wireless headset was the killer app [for Bluetooth] in its early days But the wireless headset is now a horrifying millstone making Bluetooth look like the world's stupidest trash fire. If you enable your microphone, you lose all audio from anything that doesn't want to use the microphone as the headset switches into "headset" mode and drops anything that wants to use "headphones" mode. There is no reason for there to even be two different modes. Why is this still happening?

marcosdumay 2y ago
Except for the "headphone" versus "headset" mode dichotomy that is inherent to Bluetooth, all those other issues are due to stupid product decisions that most OSes do to themselves independently on the same way. If you use Linux + KDE, you can still use any microphone or headphone, many at the same time, or in whatever mode you want.
- bombela 2y ago
  Linux + KDE user here. It used to work on kde/plasma 5 at some point. And after a minor version update it stopped working. Now the mic of my headset doesn't work because KDE insists that only the high quality sound output without mic is available. The mic + low quality output is gone from the settings. Lucky for me this update also brought proper handling of the stereo positioned noise cancelling microphones on my thinkpad. So now I can actually enjoy the luxury of built-in microphones that work. Until the day it wont I guess.
  - redeeman 2y ago
    if you use pipewire it works fine both in plasma 5 and 6. but the audio quality in the sound + mic profile is very poor, the codec is only meant for speech
    - bombela 2y ago
      I am using pipe wire. The option to select the handset mode is gone! I can only select the various output codecs with my increasing quality. But not the mic & output mode. It's gone from the list...
      - nurettin 2y ago
        Wow brings back memories when this used to be a problem on gnome like five years ago.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > If you use Linux + KDE, you can still use any microphone or headphone, many at the same time, or in whatever mode you want. This doesn't really seem to respond to the problem. The problem is that I'd like to use a single bluetooth device that includes earpieces and a microphone. That doesn't work, because of the headphone-headset mode dichotomy. As I replied to another comment, using multiple devices would be a solution to the problem. It wouldn't be an example of the problem that I want solved. Bluetooth is apparently incapable of simply delivering an audio stream to the earpieces while accepting one from the microphone. This is a baffling design. The assumption appears to be that there will never be more than one source of audio for output. But that's crazy.
morkalork 2y ago
The absolute madness that is Bluetooth pairing between cars and cellphones is wild. If I get into my car and it decides to randomly pair with my wife's phone (who is inside the house) and I drive off, the whole infotainment system is locks up and dies until I get to my destination and turn off the car.
- roywashere 2y ago
  What car do you drive? Then I make sure to not buy it
- kjkjadksj 2y ago
  Mine connects and starts playing silently, and you need to press play and pause on the headunit to make it make sound. Every two months or so it fails to connect to the phone and needs a complete forget and repair to happen. Toyota unit and iphone.
brudgers 2y ago
It is happening because it works the way that is most useful to most people. The number of people who want to use bluetooth earbuds with a different microphone is line noise in the consumer market. Implementing special requirements is always inconvenient for users because no B2C wants to risk bad the-microphone-didn’t-work reviews, customer returns, and support tickets. Nevermind coordinating with arbitrary USB microphone latency…I’ve got one with 250ms of it.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > It is happening because it works the way that is most useful to most people. The number of people who want to use bluetooth earbuds with a different microphone is line noise in the consumer market. I don't think you have any idea what you're saying. The scenario I'm describing is when you want to use a bluetooth headset that includes a microphone. Using a different microphone is how you solve the problem.
  - brudgers 2y ago
    I have never had a microphone problem with a bluetooth headset. They all always just work until something mechanical breaks through use. If I had an issue, wired headphones seem a simpler solution than changing the bluetooth standard and more likely to work than wishing manufacturers changed their devices.
    - thaumasiotes 2y ago
      So, the standard defines behavior that is obviously pathological, actively working against the needs of all users. But because it's already codified, it's a bad idea to change it?
      - brudgers 2y ago
        Works for my needs. If it didn't, I'd use wires. Or something else.
- redeeman 2y ago
jonesjohnson 2y ago
obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2055/ https://xkcd.com/2055/
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  Except this isn't a problem of trying to manage multiple connections. Bluetooth can't even handle maintaining a single connection between two devices.
terribleperson 2y ago
My partner's hearing aid connects (via some radio protocol) to a device that then connects via bluetooth. Unfortunately, it presents itself as a headset, which causes... problems. For Android, they have to use an app from the play store that presents itself as an audio device and then sends that to the 'headset'.

marcosdumay 2y ago

Except for the "headphone" versus "headset" mode dichotomy that is inherent to Bluetooth, all those other issues are due to stupid product decisions that most OSes do to themselves independently on the same way. If you use Linux + KDE, you can still use any microphone or headphone, many at the same time, or in whatever mode you want.

bombela 2y ago
Linux + KDE user here. It used to work on kde/plasma 5 at some point. And after a minor version update it stopped working. Now the mic of my headset doesn't work because KDE insists that only the high quality sound output without mic is available. The mic + low quality output is gone from the settings. Lucky for me this update also brought proper handling of the stereo positioned noise cancelling microphones on my thinkpad. So now I can actually enjoy the luxury of built-in microphones that work. Until the day it wont I guess.
- redeeman 2y ago
  if you use pipewire it works fine both in plasma 5 and 6. but the audio quality in the sound + mic profile is very poor, the codec is only meant for speech
  - bombela 2y ago
    I am using pipe wire. The option to select the handset mode is gone! I can only select the various output codecs with my increasing quality. But not the mic & output mode. It's gone from the list...
    - nurettin 2y ago
      Wow brings back memories when this used to be a problem on gnome like five years ago.
thaumasiotes 2y ago
> If you use Linux + KDE, you can still use any microphone or headphone, many at the same time, or in whatever mode you want. This doesn't really seem to respond to the problem. The problem is that I'd like to use a single bluetooth device that includes earpieces and a microphone. That doesn't work, because of the headphone-headset mode dichotomy. As I replied to another comment, using multiple devices would be a solution to the problem. It wouldn't be an example of the problem that I want solved. Bluetooth is apparently incapable of simply delivering an audio stream to the earpieces while accepting one from the microphone. This is a baffling design. The assumption appears to be that there will never be more than one source of audio for output. But that's crazy.

morkalork 2y ago

The absolute madness that is Bluetooth pairing between cars and cellphones is wild. If I get into my car and it decides to randomly pair with my wife's phone (who is inside the house) and I drive off, the whole infotainment system is locks up and dies until I get to my destination and turn off the car.

roywashere 2y ago
What car do you drive? Then I make sure to not buy it
kjkjadksj 2y ago
Mine connects and starts playing silently, and you need to press play and pause on the headunit to make it make sound. Every two months or so it fails to connect to the phone and needs a complete forget and repair to happen. Toyota unit and iphone.

brudgers 2y ago

It is happening because it works the way that is most useful to most people. The number of people who want to use bluetooth earbuds with a different microphone is line noise in the consumer market. Implementing special requirements is always inconvenient for users because no B2C wants to risk bad the-microphone-didn’t-work reviews, customer returns, and support tickets. Nevermind coordinating with arbitrary USB microphone latency…I’ve got one with 250ms of it.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
> It is happening because it works the way that is most useful to most people. The number of people who want to use bluetooth earbuds with a different microphone is line noise in the consumer market. I don't think you have any idea what you're saying. The scenario I'm describing is when you want to use a bluetooth headset that includes a microphone. Using a different microphone is how you solve the problem.
- brudgers 2y ago
  I have never had a microphone problem with a bluetooth headset. They all always just work until something mechanical breaks through use. If I had an issue, wired headphones seem a simpler solution than changing the bluetooth standard and more likely to work than wishing manufacturers changed their devices.
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    So, the standard defines behavior that is obviously pathological, actively working against the needs of all users. But because it's already codified, it's a bad idea to change it?
    - brudgers 2y ago
      Works for my needs. If it didn't, I'd use wires. Or something else.
redeeman 2y ago

jonesjohnson 2y ago

obligatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2055/ https://xkcd.com/2055/

thaumasiotes 2y ago
Except this isn't a problem of trying to manage multiple connections. Bluetooth can't even handle maintaining a single connection between two devices.

terribleperson 2y ago

My partner's hearing aid connects (via some radio protocol) to a device that then connects via bluetooth. Unfortunately, it presents itself as a headset, which causes... problems. For Android, they have to use an app from the play store that presents itself as an audio device and then sends that to the 'headset'.