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The bigger issue is that roads are immensely subsidised compared to rail. Even on private roads that are completely covered by usage charges, trucks pay maybe a

The bigger issue is that roads are immensely subsidised compared to rail. Even on private roads that are completely covered by usage charges, trucks pay maybe a factor of 2-10 more than cars, however they cause about 40000 times more wear (let's even disregard how they also cause disproportionately more traffic...). Obviously this calculation becomes even worse if we consider that most roads are subsidised by all tax payers. Trucks would be much less profitable (especially for long haul traffic) if they would have to cover their actual cost to society. But they are just another example of privatising profits and socialising the costs.

seanmcdirmid 1y ago
Are you just talking about the USA? I would bet that rail in Europe and Eastern Asia is also pretty subsidized, as much as or even more so than roads.
- crote 1y ago
  Rather the opposite in Europe, actually. The European rail network is strongly liberalized, starting with the First Railway Directive 91/440/EEC. The physical infrastructure now usually falls under a state-owned enterprise, which provides access to any company wanting to use it, at a fair and non-discriminatory pricing. In practice this means that the usage fees have to pay for all upkeep and maintenance, with occasional cash injections from the government for things like constructing new railway lines. Importantly, this infrastructure company is expected to either have a neutral result, or run a profit: the railway users have to pay the true costs of operating the railway. The roads are a different story altogether. They are owned, constructed, and maintained directly by the government itself. Road upkeep comes out of the general budget - just like education or defense. Road users pay via a vehicle tax and/or fuel tax, but there is zero expectation that those taxes pay for the full cost of the road network. After all, you profit from the presence of a road network - even if you don't drive a car yourself.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    France has fairly high tolls on roads and Switzerland has that sticker you have to buy to use the expressways. Japanese rail companies must get some sort of subsidy on tracks, the passenger rail system runs at a loss and only turns a profit on renting space in train stations. Roads are also heavily tolled (similar in China).
    - spwa4 1y ago
      > France has fairly high tolls on roads and Switzerland has that sticker you have to buy to use the expressways. France has tolls, which pay for 90 roads (granted, big ones), out of thousands.
EasyMark 1y ago
that 40000 figure is the product of one study. I have always been suspicious of it and wished people could cite more than one study written 40+ years ago
hansvm 1y ago
And states like Rhode Island trying to actually charge truckers for those damages keep having their efforts struck down in the courts.

seanmcdirmid 1y ago

Are you just talking about the USA? I would bet that rail in Europe and Eastern Asia is also pretty subsidized, as much as or even more so than roads.

crote 1y ago
Rather the opposite in Europe, actually. The European rail network is strongly liberalized, starting with the First Railway Directive 91/440/EEC. The physical infrastructure now usually falls under a state-owned enterprise, which provides access to any company wanting to use it, at a fair and non-discriminatory pricing. In practice this means that the usage fees have to pay for all upkeep and maintenance, with occasional cash injections from the government for things like constructing new railway lines. Importantly, this infrastructure company is expected to either have a neutral result, or run a profit: the railway users have to pay the true costs of operating the railway. The roads are a different story altogether. They are owned, constructed, and maintained directly by the government itself. Road upkeep comes out of the general budget - just like education or defense. Road users pay via a vehicle tax and/or fuel tax, but there is zero expectation that those taxes pay for the full cost of the road network. After all, you profit from the presence of a road network - even if you don't drive a car yourself.
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  France has fairly high tolls on roads and Switzerland has that sticker you have to buy to use the expressways. Japanese rail companies must get some sort of subsidy on tracks, the passenger rail system runs at a loss and only turns a profit on renting space in train stations. Roads are also heavily tolled (similar in China).
  - spwa4 1y ago
    > France has fairly high tolls on roads and Switzerland has that sticker you have to buy to use the expressways. France has tolls, which pay for 90 roads (granted, big ones), out of thousands.

EasyMark 1y ago

that 40000 figure is the product of one study. I have always been suspicious of it and wished people could cite more than one study written 40+ years ago

hansvm 1y ago

And states like Rhode Island trying to actually charge truckers for those damages keep having their efforts struck down in the courts.