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I am about a quarter of the way through Modern Library’s top 100 and it has been a worthwhile journey. It is “just” literary fiction but it is among the best hu
by crims0n 1y ago
I am about a quarter of the way through Modern Library’s top 100 and it has been a worthwhile journey. It is “just” literary fiction but it is among the best humanity has produced. I have learned so much about the human condition, my ability to articulate ideas has improved tremendously, and I feel like my mind has been “freed from the tyranny of the present” (to quote Cicero).
https://sites.prh.com/modern-library-top-100 https://sites.prh.com/modern-library-top-100
- whatnow37373 1y agoSeeing that I am on HN and can unleash unrestrained pedantry I wish to ask where Cicero actually writes that because I cannot find it?
- crims0n 1y agoThe full quote is allegedly "The purpose of education is to free the student from the tyranny of the present." ...I picked it up in Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death, but he didn't cite which work it came from. Goodreads attributes it to "Selected Works".
- literalAardvark 1y agoThe Roman version of "trust me bro"
- ChuckMcM 1y agoI thought Mark Twain said that. /ducks
- MarkusQ 1y agoI dodn't think it's a quote; more a paraphrase of: https://www.loebclassics.com/view/marcus_tullius_cicero-orator/1939/pb_LCL342.395.xml?readMode=recto https://www.loebclassics.com/view/marcus_tullius_cicero-orat...
- ahazred8ta 1y agoTo be ignorant of what occurred before you were born is to remain always a child. For what is the worth of human life, unless it is woven into the life of our ancestors by the records of history?
- whatnow37373 1y agoThat’s a very … liberal interpretation. I find it fascinating how many interesting quotes turn out to be fabrications of unknown origin.
- MarkusQ 1y agoI suspect what happened here (and possibly in other similar cases) is that some author glossed a body of work in a way that made sense in context, and others mistook it as a quotation. It's as if I remarked that Isaac Asimov said a lot of prescient things about robots, and people saw that and started quoting it: > A lot of prescient things about robots. > -- Issac Asimov
- DyslexicAtheist 1y agowould have loved to see some non native English speaking authors on the list. (instead of listing some authors twice - as great as they are). There were 2 Russians that stood out but no Camus, Feuchtwanger, Remarque, Musil, Borges, ...
- mediaman 1y agoYes, it's kind of a strange slice - we get Faulkner three times and we get Joseph Conrad no fewer than four times(!), but not a single book from Dostoevsky or Tolstoy? No Bulgakov, no Turgenev? No Flaubert?
- S_Bear 1y agoLermontov's 'Hero of Our Time' is probably my favorite Russian novel, and I say that as someone who absolutely adores Dostoevsky. It still feels relevant and modern.
- int_19h 1y agoFWIW, I would argue that Tolstoy is extremely overrated as a writer (but agree with your other suggestions).
- haroldp 1y agoEnglish was Joseph Conrad's third language.
- jimbokun 1y agoOr just rename the list "Top 100 Novels in the English Language".
- WillAdams 1y agoI've read more than half of those, and every time I see that list, I really wish that almost every book would be paired w/ one which enhances/comments on either the book or that same theme. e.g., _Kim_ by Rudyard Kipling should be paired w/ Robert Heinlein's _Citizen of the Galaxy_, or _The Grapes of Wrath_, which was cribbed from Sanora Babb's notes w/o permission should be paired w/ her _Whose Names Are Unknown_: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1197158.Whose_Names_Are_Unknown https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1197158.Whose_Names_Are_...
- crims0n 1y agoI really like this idea. I didn't even know about Whose Names Are Unknown... added it to the queue.
- WillAdams 1y agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42133491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42133491
- infecto 1y agoI’m not a literary scholar, but this seems like a great use case for ChatGPT. I’ve used it for music explorations and found it surprisingly good at providing context and interesting suggestions. I tried your idea with The Grapes of Wrath and it surfaced Whose Names Are Unknown, with a thoughtful explanation. Obviously it’s qualitative, but you can shape the prompt to reflect your taste and still get some worthwhile discoveries. [1] https://chatgpt.com/share/68150654-bebc-8010-ad4b-050f5b39d4e9 https://chatgpt.com/share/68150654-bebc-8010-ad4b-050f5b39d4...
- fellowniusmonk 1y agoI would also suggest the childrens books Cheaper by the Dozen, The Musicians of Brennan, Morris' Disappearing Bag and The Red Badge of Courage. I'd maybe throw in some of the little house on the prairie books as well, especially the one where they all almost froze to death. I think being able to appreciate books as an adult is pretty contingent on being exposed to good books as a youth.
- iandanforth 1y agoAnyone who puts "Ulysses" at the top of a best books list is suffering from expertitis. Ulysses has a massive user experience problem. It's hard. Dense, convoluted, absurd. If your friend asks you for a good book, you don't recommend it. The only time you do is when your college English major, or advanced highschooler, who is bored with the tropes of even very good novels wants to stretch themselves. Then you hand them this book.
- crims0n 1y agoI agree, and in fact I did not start with Ulysses and do not recommend people do. I read 2-10 on the list, then Hamlet, then Ulysses - which I feel mostly prepared me for it. I did love it, but it is not an easy read, and took me the better part of a month to get through.
- bpshaver 1y agoWhy are you conflating "best" with "what you would recommend a friend"? Many of the best things in life are hard. And you wouldn't necessarily recommend them to a friend. When you consider specific domains, often the best instances of X tend to be harder versions of X. Or, when people become familiar with many instances of X they seek out the "best" instances of X. Its natural that those best instances would be difficult for people unfamiliar with the domain.
- ChuckMcM 1y ago"Many of the best things in life are hard. And you wouldn't necessarily recommend them to a friend." Yup.
- miunau 1y agoHow did you find Ulysses, was it a good read for you?
- gradstudent 1y ago>Or, when people become familiar with many instances of X they seek out the "best" instances of X I think you're saying the same thing as the GP? Ulysses is a book for lit nerds, which I suppose the Modern Library board were. Looking at the list, there's hardly any books from after mid 20th century. That makes me think that the board comprised primarily old lit nerds, who stopped reading long before voting. The list is also super ethno centric, which makes me more dubious still about the claims for "best" anything.
- dhosek 1y agoI’ve read 53 of the fiction, 10 of the non-fiction (which tracks with my being an English major).
- hungryhobbit 1y agoWhat an awful list! And I say that as a Modern Literature major who has read a lot on that list. FAULKNER IS A TERRIBLE WRITER! And while James Joyce and some of the others are good writers, they don't deserve multiple entries in the top 100. It's clear this list is really "5 librarians personal favorites."
- WillAdams 1y agoIt was from a list of 440 books (possibly what Random House then had in stock) and voted on by the board members --- it's been widely criticized/commented on, see the Wikipedia article for some further links on this.
- crims0n 1y agoCan you recommend a better one? I picked it at random when I wanted to explore literature, but it seemed to be cited often enough.
- andrepd 1y agoOne that does not omit Dostoevsky or García Marquez over mediocre books in the English language would be a good start.
- cgh 1y agoAgain, this list is from Random House, a major American English-language book publisher.
- WillAdams 1y agoMy suggestion would be to start with the authors nominated for a Nobel prize for literature. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_in_Literature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_in_Lit... Filtering by those available in readily available English translations should yield a workable list.
- windowshopping 1y agoThe sentence "FAULKNER IS A TERRIBLE WRITER" is one of the most incredible sets of words I've ever had the misfortune to lay my eyes upon.
- brummm 1y agoI don't think this is a very good list that should call itself top 100. Maybe anglophone top 100, but even then I'd question some of the choices. I completely ignores a ton of more important works in non-English languages.
- cgh 1y agoThe Modern Library is a publishing imprint of Random House so it’s pretty much focused on works in English.
- inglor_cz 1y agoYou inspired me to do the same. I just ordered the first five, and will continue down the list. Out of the list, I read 8 books so far, but all of them in Czech.
- crims0n 1y agoEnjoy your journey!
- piokoch 1y agoThis list is kind of strange. Firstly, it is very "anglo-saxon" oriented. It is a mixture of "Big Literature", interesting for someone who is literature student, like ULYSSES (which is at the same time a great novel and a boring as hell novel) with true gems, like Orwell or Joseph Conrad-Korzeniowski with additions like Robert Graves writing, which has mostly entertainment value equal to average pseudo-documentaries from Netflix and pop stuff like Vonnegut' books (which are, at least, not boring). Still, a lot of interesting stuff, Orwell, unfortunately, never gets old, pity Ray Bradbury was omitted, as Fahrenheit 451 is getting more and more up-to-date.
- bigmattystyles 1y agoReally wish they had that list in order of difficulty - if you start with Ulysses, you're gonna have a bad time.
- andrepd 1y agoThat's a dreadful list in my opinion. Absurdly Anglocentric (esp. Americo-centric). I'm not saying they're bad books but a really far cry from "among the best humanity has produced". Not a single south-american novel? Not a single romance language book as a matter of fact? I highly recommend you diversify your reading choices.
- crims0n 1y agoOpen to suggestions.
- WillAdams 1y agoElsethread, I suggested Nobel Prize Winners --- just start at the beginning, see what is in your local library which interests you, and skip over the authors who have ceased to be relevant enough to be in the stacks. One notable highlight, which I'm pretty sure was the first work by a Nobel Laureate I read is Herman Hesse --- I'd recommend his _Magister Ludi_ (also published as _The Glass Bead Game_)
- throwaway2037 1y agoThe first flaw with any cannon: It nearly excludes women. I looked through the first half of the list. I only saw two books written by women.