5 ms·

RFK Jr is wrong – there's a rich history of autistic poets

33 points by teaman2000 1y ago

isitsafeyet 1y ago
A rich kid heroin addict who didnt OD and failed upward is the last person we should be discussing seriously.
- SnazzyUncle 1y ago
  [flagged]
- _joel 1y ago
  Unfortunately when they're in such a position of power, it's difficult not to discuss, seriously or not.
  - isitsafeyet 1y ago
    You’re right. We have no choice. But it is hard for me to be serious and objective. It is like having to disprove flat earthers.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
goodtakes 1y ago
Of course RFK was wrong. You think people with disabilities don't make art? It is an absurd statement on its face, and he did nothing to supply any evidence he was correct. Autistic folks have been with us forever, we're just way way better at finding and supporting them now.
theFco 1y ago
I feel the statement "autistic people will never write a poem" may be trivially true, because (I suspect) many people will never write a poem. The implication that this is invalid or wrong is perverse. And the fact that now we have to argue for the dignity of autistic people by saying that there are autistic poets is also non-sensical. These are all cruel suggestions about people, we should challenge why RFK makes statements like this. Not take them at face value, as if they merit being answered.
- card_zero 1y ago
  The quote is: "And these are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted." ... "Most cases now are severe. Twenty-five percent of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet-trained, and have other stereotypical features." Then pbs fact-checking is questioning the "twenty-five percent". But he was talking about severe autism, and yet this seems to be morphing somehow into "RFK Jr says George Bernard Shaw didn't exist".
  - foogazi 1y ago
    > Most cases now are severe. Wasn’t this always the case?
    - card_zero 1y ago
      I don't even know what it means, 25% isn't "most".
    - DarkWiiPlayer 1y ago
      I'm pretty sure it's the opposite, and the rise in autism diagnoses is almost entirely people who overall function well in society and wouldn't have been diagnosed in the past. So to me it would be very surprising if the ratio wasn't shifting away from serious cases of autism. If that wasn't the case, and cases of actally disabling autism were on the rise, I'd think actual scientists would be trying to find the cause, yet all we ever hear from is conspiracy idiots trying to blame anything from vaccines to "the Jews" for autism.
      - foogazi 1y ago
        That’s what I meant - the early autism diagnosis were exclusively “severe” Only as more symptoms were discovered did the milder forms get recognized
  - eddie_lemons 1y ago
schnable 1y ago
RFK never said or implied that all people with autism are non-functional in important areas. It's true that a significant number are, and it's really strange and perhaps cruel to see people trying to erase that. And it doesn't make it less of an issue to address even if some of those people write poetry.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- readthenotes1 1y ago
  [flagged]
- normalaccess 1y ago
  I feel like there is a group of people that *deeply* want the autism rates to continue at the rate they are at due to some strange ideation. It's hard to describe what I mean, but the closest thing I can think of is a social contagion or a society wide Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Does that make sense?
  - Shog9 1y ago
    No. We don't have a cure for autism. We don't have a prevention for autism. We don't have a clear cause for autism beyond recognizing that genetics play a role. We don't even have a clear picture of the scope; one reason rates appear to be increasing is simply that we've gotten better at recognizing symptoms in previously ignored populations. But... We are probably still ignoring symptoms in some significant populations. It is completely understandable that, as we learn more and the scope of the problem becomes more apparent, folks are alarmed and clamoring for politicians to Do Something. ...it is less apparent that there is anything productive to be done, beyond continued efforts to better understand the situation. We (as a society) and Kennedy in particular (within his own family), have ample experience with the harms wrought by efforts to Do Something when no effective solution exists.
    - normalaccess 1y ago
arcticfox 1y ago
> As an autistic English professor who studies literature and neurodiversity, I was especially unnerved by Kennedy’s contention that many autistic people will never write poetry. > It couldn’t be further from the truth. Screw this English professor with autism - RFK's comments are literally correct if you read them. Many autistic people like my child will never speak, he's not talking about English professors with level 1 autism. Stop ignoring those of us with much greater challenges, it's so condescending.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- the_gipsy 1y ago
  Do you want to calculate how much your disabled child costs us healthy families next? It would be "literally correct" too.
  - arcticfox 1y ago
    An enormous amount, unfortunately for everyone? As it should, in a healthy society. I think you misread my politics because I think attacking RFK over this point is stupid, counterproductive, and condescending. He is going to cause harm a million ways but this is not it. He is obviously not talking about the English professor who has had a very successful life. The author is trying to do a "well actually" here and missing the entire point, as well as being literally wrong when you read the words. So even a generous, pedantic angle is stupid. For the record, I align completely with this liberal commentary in the NYT this week, that is 10x more eloquent than I am: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/25/opinion/autism-rfk-parent-child.html?unlocked_article_code=1.C08.hWX3.K0XZkxDcQ86Y&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/25/opinion/autism-rfk-parent...
incomingpain 1y ago
The autism epidemic in Cali that George WBush attempted to investigate is exactly what made silicon valley exist. Autism should not be viewed as a negative. In the new tech economy aspergers is a huge benefit. https://www.cdc.gov/autism/data-research/autism-data-visualization-tool.html https://www.cdc.gov/autism/data-research/autism-data-visuali... Also interesting to note because of RFK jr context. Notice Georgia(56.9% vaccinated) and Tennesseeeseee(56.1% vaccinated) as hotspots for autism. While Kentucky isnt a hot spot and is 73.1% routine vaccinated. This is anti-correlative to vaccines causing autism. My Poem(downvote me if it sucks): Georgia stands at 56, Tennessee just barely 56, Yet Kentucky, in the heat, Boasts 73 is no small feat. If vaccines brought harm, the trend would show, But higher rates see no such blow, The vaccine myth falls flat, No link from science, just fears.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
sebstefan 1y ago
He also said that they will never pay taxes and never hold a job. Insane statement for anyone in the tech industry.
- the_gipsy 1y ago
  Scarily close to Nazi propaganda showing the cost of disabled persons to society: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/photo/propaganda-slide-showing-the-opportunity-cost-of-feeding-a-person-with-a-hereditary-disease?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/photo/propaganda-s...

33 points by teaman2000 1y ago

isitsafeyet 1y ago

A rich kid heroin addict who didnt OD and failed upward is the last person we should be discussing seriously.

SnazzyUncle 1y ago
[flagged]
_joel 1y ago
Unfortunately when they're in such a position of power, it's difficult not to discuss, seriously or not.
- isitsafeyet 1y ago
  You’re right. We have no choice. But it is hard for me to be serious and objective. It is like having to disprove flat earthers.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

goodtakes 1y ago

Of course RFK was wrong. You think people with disabilities don't make art? It is an absurd statement on its face, and he did nothing to supply any evidence he was correct. Autistic folks have been with us forever, we're just way way better at finding and supporting them now.

theFco 1y ago

I feel the statement "autistic people will never write a poem" may be trivially true, because (I suspect) many people will never write a poem. The implication that this is invalid or wrong is perverse. And the fact that now we have to argue for the dignity of autistic people by saying that there are autistic poets is also non-sensical. These are all cruel suggestions about people, we should challenge why RFK makes statements like this. Not take them at face value, as if they merit being answered.

card_zero 1y ago
The quote is: "And these are kids who will never pay taxes, they’ll never hold a job, they’ll never play baseball, they’ll never write a poem, they’ll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted." ... "Most cases now are severe. Twenty-five percent of the kids who are diagnosed with autism are nonverbal, non-toilet-trained, and have other stereotypical features." Then pbs fact-checking is questioning the "twenty-five percent". But he was talking about severe autism, and yet this seems to be morphing somehow into "RFK Jr says George Bernard Shaw didn't exist".
- foogazi 1y ago
  > Most cases now are severe. Wasn’t this always the case?
  - card_zero 1y ago
    I don't even know what it means, 25% isn't "most".
  - DarkWiiPlayer 1y ago
    I'm pretty sure it's the opposite, and the rise in autism diagnoses is almost entirely people who overall function well in society and wouldn't have been diagnosed in the past. So to me it would be very surprising if the ratio wasn't shifting away from serious cases of autism. If that wasn't the case, and cases of actally disabling autism were on the rise, I'd think actual scientists would be trying to find the cause, yet all we ever hear from is conspiracy idiots trying to blame anything from vaccines to "the Jews" for autism.
    - foogazi 1y ago
      That’s what I meant - the early autism diagnosis were exclusively “severe” Only as more symptoms were discovered did the milder forms get recognized
- eddie_lemons 1y ago

schnable 1y ago

RFK never said or implied that all people with autism are non-functional in important areas. It's true that a significant number are, and it's really strange and perhaps cruel to see people trying to erase that. And it doesn't make it less of an issue to address even if some of those people write poetry.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
readthenotes1 1y ago
[flagged]
normalaccess 1y ago
I feel like there is a group of people that *deeply* want the autism rates to continue at the rate they are at due to some strange ideation. It's hard to describe what I mean, but the closest thing I can think of is a social contagion or a society wide Munchausen syndrome by proxy. Does that make sense?
- Shog9 1y ago
  No. We don't have a cure for autism. We don't have a prevention for autism. We don't have a clear cause for autism beyond recognizing that genetics play a role. We don't even have a clear picture of the scope; one reason rates appear to be increasing is simply that we've gotten better at recognizing symptoms in previously ignored populations. But... We are probably still ignoring symptoms in some significant populations. It is completely understandable that, as we learn more and the scope of the problem becomes more apparent, folks are alarmed and clamoring for politicians to Do Something. ...it is less apparent that there is anything productive to be done, beyond continued efforts to better understand the situation. We (as a society) and Kennedy in particular (within his own family), have ample experience with the harms wrought by efforts to Do Something when no effective solution exists.
  - normalaccess 1y ago

arcticfox 1y ago

> As an autistic English professor who studies literature and neurodiversity, I was especially unnerved by Kennedy’s contention that many autistic people will never write poetry. > It couldn’t be further from the truth. Screw this English professor with autism - RFK's comments are literally correct if you read them. Many autistic people like my child will never speak, he's not talking about English professors with level 1 autism. Stop ignoring those of us with much greater challenges, it's so condescending.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
the_gipsy 1y ago
Do you want to calculate how much your disabled child costs us healthy families next? It would be "literally correct" too.
- arcticfox 1y ago
  An enormous amount, unfortunately for everyone? As it should, in a healthy society. I think you misread my politics because I think attacking RFK over this point is stupid, counterproductive, and condescending. He is going to cause harm a million ways but this is not it. He is obviously not talking about the English professor who has had a very successful life. The author is trying to do a "well actually" here and missing the entire point, as well as being literally wrong when you read the words. So even a generous, pedantic angle is stupid. For the record, I align completely with this liberal commentary in the NYT this week, that is 10x more eloquent than I am: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/25/opinion/autism-rfk-parent-child.html?unlocked_article_code=1.C08.hWX3.K0XZkxDcQ86Y&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/25/opinion/autism-rfk-parent...

incomingpain 1y ago

The autism epidemic in Cali that George WBush attempted to investigate is exactly what made silicon valley exist. Autism should not be viewed as a negative. In the new tech economy aspergers is a huge benefit. https://www.cdc.gov/autism/data-research/autism-data-visualization-tool.html https://www.cdc.gov/autism/data-research/autism-data-visuali... Also interesting to note because of RFK jr context. Notice Georgia(56.9% vaccinated) and Tennesseeeseee(56.1% vaccinated) as hotspots for autism. While Kentucky isnt a hot spot and is 73.1% routine vaccinated. This is anti-correlative to vaccines causing autism. My Poem(downvote me if it sucks): Georgia stands at 56, Tennessee just barely 56, Yet Kentucky, in the heat, Boasts 73 is no small feat. If vaccines brought harm, the trend would show, But higher rates see no such blow, The vaccine myth falls flat, No link from science, just fears.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

sebstefan 1y ago

He also said that they will never pay taxes and never hold a job. Insane statement for anyone in the tech industry.

the_gipsy 1y ago
Scarily close to Nazi propaganda showing the cost of disabled persons to society: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/photo/propaganda-slide-showing-the-opportunity-cost-of-feeding-a-person-with-a-hereditary-disease?utm_source=chatgpt.com https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/photo/propaganda-s...