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Not everyone wants an EV, especially in America. Unless EV’s can jump to 500 mile range and ubiquitous five minute charging, a lot of people are just gonna want

Not everyone wants an EV, especially in America. Unless EV’s can jump to 500 mile range and ubiquitous five minute charging, a lot of people are just gonna want a hybrid.

throwaway48476 1y ago
I want a range extended EV with a easily removable power pack. Unfortunately the EPA doesn't consider it an EV so no one will make one because there's no tax credit.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
  My dream is a little trailer gas generator. Give you infinite range for longer trips. Day to day, just leave it disconnected.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    Isn’t that the BMW i3 range extender?
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
      That does not seem bad! I was imagining something more generic, literally a mini trailer with a generator bolted on top, but this is sleek.
      - throwaway48476 1y ago
        The motorcycle engine doesn't produce enough power so it can only do 40mph when the battery is dead.
        0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
        That is less than ideal. Definitely does not fit my detachable range extender vision.
    - throwaway48476 1y ago
      In the US the BMW i3 range extender gas tank is software limited so the gas range is shorter than the ev range. That's the only way they could get it to qualify as an ev.
- floxy 1y ago
  Plug in hybrids are eligible for the U.S. Federal $7,500 tax credit if they meet the same battery mineral sourcing requirements as the EVs do. https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml
bunderbunder 1y ago
Just yesterday in the coffee shop the person next to me was having a conversation about his buyer's remorse over recently purchasing a full EV instead of a hybrid or plug-in hybrid. It sounded like he hadn't anticipated how much of a hassle it is to charge on road trips. Something about having to carefully plan around the locations of fast charge stations, and it really being a drag when you're just trying to get out of the city for a weekend. My sense is that plug-in hybrids really are the sweet spot for a lot of people in North America. The shorter full EV range is still well within most people's needs for a typical day's worth of driving, but you can still travel to and through rural areas without so much stress about whether you'll get stuck killing time for an hour or two at a slow charge station.
- slg 1y ago
  >It sounded like he hadn't anticipated how much of a hassle it is to charge on road trips. A few years ago this was true, but now that Tesla has opened up their network of chargers, your destination probably has to be >100 miles away from most interstate highways before road trip charging becomes much of an issue.
  - ketzo 1y ago
    Even if there are charging stations every ten miles along the exact route you were already planning to take, it’s just straightforwardly true that it’s more annoying to charge vs. get gas. I can fill my tank and be back on the road in <5 minutes in most cases, and I only have to do that once every 350 miles. With an EV, I would be stopping anywhere from 10-30minutes (depending on the kinds of chargers available) (assuming I don’t have to wait for one to open up), and I’d be doing it twice as often. It adds a very meaningful amount of time to long car trips.
    - slg 1y ago
      I think this is overstated. My Ford EV gets ~300 miles. If I leave my home with a full charge, I can get ~500 miles with ~30 minutes of charging. If a ~30 minute break in the middle of an ~8 hour drive is a problem for you, you probably aren't a safe driver. There is a reason that truckers have mandatory breaks. A person shouldn't be driving all day nonstop.
amanaplanacanal 1y ago
In the US a plug-in hybrid seems like the best of both worlds. Once the charging infrastructure gets fully flushed out pure EVs will look a lot better.
- loeg 1y ago
  PHEVs (hybrids with large battery packs) are the worst of both worlds -- weight penalty of a big EV pack, but the complexity/maintenance of an ICE engine. Additionally, rarely used gas can go bad sitting in the tank. Just get a regular hybrid if you're concerned about EV range or don't like the current limited offerings.
  - lmz 1y ago
    I thought those were programmed to run the engine once in a while regardless of necessity - to prevent the gas from going bad?
    - saalweachter 1y ago
      Yes -- it's happened once or twice with my Chevy Volt. Full charge, and it pops up a dialogue and runs the engine for a mile.
  - slt2021 1y ago
    PHEV fits the ideal use case of short commute to work every day on EV, and a weekend trip to national park/resort city 400 miles away. but the downside is maintenance of ICE engine and transmission and all consumables
    - loeg 1y ago
      > PHEV fits the ideal use case of short commute to work every day on EV, and a weekend trip to national park/resort city 400 miles away. IMO, EVs fit this use case just fine. There are plenty of chargers; it's not a big deal.
  - lern_too_spel 1y ago
pelagic_sky 1y ago
America is massive. And has a huge portion of “wild” country. As much as I want to go EV. All my free time is in the mountains on logging roads and in sub zero temps in winter. The charging networks are not yet embedded in the small mountain towns I frequent and I can’t take that chance.
- kccqzy 1y ago
  You are just describing the chicken-and-egg problem. Without enough EVs there aren't incentives to build more chargers; without enough chargers EVs aren't sold in enough numbers. That's why the EV adoption curve in the United States is still in the early adopter phase. And clearly you aren't enthusiastic about being an early adopter.

Not everyone wants an EV, especially in America. Unless EV’s can jump to 500 mile range and ubiquitous five minute charging, a lot of people are just gonna want a hybrid.

throwaway48476 1y ago

I want a range extended EV with a easily removable power pack. Unfortunately the EPA doesn't consider it an EV so no one will make one because there's no tax credit.

0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
My dream is a little trailer gas generator. Give you infinite range for longer trips. Day to day, just leave it disconnected.
- seanmcdirmid 1y ago
  Isn’t that the BMW i3 range extender?
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
    That does not seem bad! I was imagining something more generic, literally a mini trailer with a generator bolted on top, but this is sleek.
    - throwaway48476 1y ago
      The motorcycle engine doesn't produce enough power so it can only do 40mph when the battery is dead.
      - 0cf8612b2e1e 1y ago
        That is less than ideal. Definitely does not fit my detachable range extender vision.
  - throwaway48476 1y ago
    In the US the BMW i3 range extender gas tank is software limited so the gas range is shorter than the ev range. That's the only way they could get it to qualify as an ev.
floxy 1y ago
Plug in hybrids are eligible for the U.S. Federal $7,500 tax credit if they meet the same battery mineral sourcing requirements as the EVs do. https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax2023.shtml

bunderbunder 1y ago

Just yesterday in the coffee shop the person next to me was having a conversation about his buyer's remorse over recently purchasing a full EV instead of a hybrid or plug-in hybrid. It sounded like he hadn't anticipated how much of a hassle it is to charge on road trips. Something about having to carefully plan around the locations of fast charge stations, and it really being a drag when you're just trying to get out of the city for a weekend. My sense is that plug-in hybrids really are the sweet spot for a lot of people in North America. The shorter full EV range is still well within most people's needs for a typical day's worth of driving, but you can still travel to and through rural areas without so much stress about whether you'll get stuck killing time for an hour or two at a slow charge station.

slg 1y ago
>It sounded like he hadn't anticipated how much of a hassle it is to charge on road trips. A few years ago this was true, but now that Tesla has opened up their network of chargers, your destination probably has to be >100 miles away from most interstate highways before road trip charging becomes much of an issue.
- ketzo 1y ago
  Even if there are charging stations every ten miles along the exact route you were already planning to take, it’s just straightforwardly true that it’s more annoying to charge vs. get gas. I can fill my tank and be back on the road in <5 minutes in most cases, and I only have to do that once every 350 miles. With an EV, I would be stopping anywhere from 10-30minutes (depending on the kinds of chargers available) (assuming I don’t have to wait for one to open up), and I’d be doing it twice as often. It adds a very meaningful amount of time to long car trips.
  - slg 1y ago
    I think this is overstated. My Ford EV gets ~300 miles. If I leave my home with a full charge, I can get ~500 miles with ~30 minutes of charging. If a ~30 minute break in the middle of an ~8 hour drive is a problem for you, you probably aren't a safe driver. There is a reason that truckers have mandatory breaks. A person shouldn't be driving all day nonstop.

amanaplanacanal 1y ago

In the US a plug-in hybrid seems like the best of both worlds. Once the charging infrastructure gets fully flushed out pure EVs will look a lot better.

loeg 1y ago
PHEVs (hybrids with large battery packs) are the worst of both worlds -- weight penalty of a big EV pack, but the complexity/maintenance of an ICE engine. Additionally, rarely used gas can go bad sitting in the tank. Just get a regular hybrid if you're concerned about EV range or don't like the current limited offerings.
- lmz 1y ago
  I thought those were programmed to run the engine once in a while regardless of necessity - to prevent the gas from going bad?
  - saalweachter 1y ago
    Yes -- it's happened once or twice with my Chevy Volt. Full charge, and it pops up a dialogue and runs the engine for a mile.
- slt2021 1y ago
  PHEV fits the ideal use case of short commute to work every day on EV, and a weekend trip to national park/resort city 400 miles away. but the downside is maintenance of ICE engine and transmission and all consumables
  - loeg 1y ago
    > PHEV fits the ideal use case of short commute to work every day on EV, and a weekend trip to national park/resort city 400 miles away. IMO, EVs fit this use case just fine. There are plenty of chargers; it's not a big deal.
- lern_too_spel 1y ago

pelagic_sky 1y ago

America is massive. And has a huge portion of “wild” country. As much as I want to go EV. All my free time is in the mountains on logging roads and in sub zero temps in winter. The charging networks are not yet embedded in the small mountain towns I frequent and I can’t take that chance.

kccqzy 1y ago
You are just describing the chicken-and-egg problem. Without enough EVs there aren't incentives to build more chargers; without enough chargers EVs aren't sold in enough numbers. That's why the EV adoption curve in the United States is still in the early adopter phase. And clearly you aren't enthusiastic about being an early adopter.