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I think regulation could be done better... Let's assign one or ideally two adults to each underage child, who are aware of the childs real age and can interven

I think regulation could be done better... Let's assign one or ideally two adults to each underage child, who are aware of the childs real age and can intervene and prevent the child from installing discord (and any other social media) in the first place or confiscate the equipment if the child breaks the rules. They could also regulate many other thing in the childs life, not just social network use.

jasonlotito 2y ago
> confiscate the equipment if the child breaks the rules. Even you acknowledge this plan is flawed and that the child can break the rules. And it's not that difficult. After all, confiscating the equipment assumes that they know about the equipment and that they can legally seize the equipment. Third parties are involved, and doing what you suggests would land these adults in prison. I know you thought you were being smart with your suggestion that maybe parents should be parents, but really you just highlighted your ignorance. The goal of these laws are to prevent children from accessing content. If some adults get caught in the crossfire, they don't care. Now, I'm not defending these laws or saying anything about them. What I am saying is that your "suggestion" is flawed from the point of view of those proposing these laws.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  These are not 20 something college students with jobs and rented apartments, doing stuff without their parents knowing. These are kids younger than 13, they don't have jobs, they live with their parents, no internet/data planes outside of control of their parents, no nothing. The goal of these laws is to get ID checks on social networks for everyone, so the governments know who the "loud ones" (against whatever political cause) are. Using small kids as a reason to do so is a typical modus operandi to achieve that. Yes, those "one or two adults" I meantioned should be the parents, and yes, parents can legally confiscate their kids phones if they're doing something stupid online. They can also check what the kid is doing online. If a 12yo kid (or younger) can somehow obtain money and a phone and keep it hidden from their parents, that kid will also be able to avoid such checks by vpn-ing (or using a proxy) to some non-UK country, where those checks won't be mandatory. This again is solved by the parents actually parenting, again... it's kids younger than 13, at that age, parents can and should have total control of their child.
  - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
    It has to be acknowledged that some things, like social media and pornography, are harmful to children. "Maintain the status quo" isn't an attractive response to that. ID laws are not a perfect solution, maybe not even a good one. You undermine your whole point by pretending VPNs are going to make the whole thing moot. Why do you care when you won't be affected because you can just use a VPN? Why does pornhub make such a fuss when their users can just use a VPN? Because in reality, introducing that much friction will stop a lot of people.
    - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
      ID laws are the end goal, the children and porn are just an excuse to get ID laws, which would give the governments a lot more control over the internet and social networks. Just imagin someone like Trump/Ursula requesting full list of names of everyone criticizing them on eg reddit (because reddit has porn, and you'd have to show your ID to be able to use reddit, because of your reasons). This is objectively bad for the people and for the internet. Parenting is a good solution, not just giving the kids tablets so they stay quiet. Yes, kids are curious, kids will still find porn, ID laws or not, but parents should teach them and limit their access, not IDs on discord. And of course porhub is making a fuss, are you, an (assuming an) adult going to go to your telco with your ID and say "hi, i'm John, i want to watch porn and jerk off, but you need to see my ID first"? Or will you find some other alternatives, where pornhub doesn't earn that money?
      - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
        > Parenting is a good solution Yes, to most of society's problems. Yet they persist.
        alexey-salmin 2y ago
        So? They equally persist in the face of endless laws, I don't see how it follows that piling more laws on top is a better idea than deferring this to parents.
- alexey-salmin 2y ago
  You keep saying it's flawed but I don't see how or why. What exactly is wrong with the idea that parents should look after their kids?
  - JoshTriplett 2y ago
    In the eyes of people who propose laws like this, what's wrong is that that wouldn't let them forcibly impose their values on everyone else.

jasonlotito 2y ago

> confiscate the equipment if the child breaks the rules. Even you acknowledge this plan is flawed and that the child can break the rules. And it's not that difficult. After all, confiscating the equipment assumes that they know about the equipment and that they can legally seize the equipment. Third parties are involved, and doing what you suggests would land these adults in prison. I know you thought you were being smart with your suggestion that maybe parents should be parents, but really you just highlighted your ignorance. The goal of these laws are to prevent children from accessing content. If some adults get caught in the crossfire, they don't care. Now, I'm not defending these laws or saying anything about them. What I am saying is that your "suggestion" is flawed from the point of view of those proposing these laws.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago
These are not 20 something college students with jobs and rented apartments, doing stuff without their parents knowing. These are kids younger than 13, they don't have jobs, they live with their parents, no internet/data planes outside of control of their parents, no nothing. The goal of these laws is to get ID checks on social networks for everyone, so the governments know who the "loud ones" (against whatever political cause) are. Using small kids as a reason to do so is a typical modus operandi to achieve that. Yes, those "one or two adults" I meantioned should be the parents, and yes, parents can legally confiscate their kids phones if they're doing something stupid online. They can also check what the kid is doing online. If a 12yo kid (or younger) can somehow obtain money and a phone and keep it hidden from their parents, that kid will also be able to avoid such checks by vpn-ing (or using a proxy) to some non-UK country, where those checks won't be mandatory. This again is solved by the parents actually parenting, again... it's kids younger than 13, at that age, parents can and should have total control of their child.
- fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
  It has to be acknowledged that some things, like social media and pornography, are harmful to children. "Maintain the status quo" isn't an attractive response to that. ID laws are not a perfect solution, maybe not even a good one. You undermine your whole point by pretending VPNs are going to make the whole thing moot. Why do you care when you won't be affected because you can just use a VPN? Why does pornhub make such a fuss when their users can just use a VPN? Because in reality, introducing that much friction will stop a lot of people.
  - ajsnigrutin 2y ago
    ID laws are the end goal, the children and porn are just an excuse to get ID laws, which would give the governments a lot more control over the internet and social networks. Just imagin someone like Trump/Ursula requesting full list of names of everyone criticizing them on eg reddit (because reddit has porn, and you'd have to show your ID to be able to use reddit, because of your reasons). This is objectively bad for the people and for the internet. Parenting is a good solution, not just giving the kids tablets so they stay quiet. Yes, kids are curious, kids will still find porn, ID laws or not, but parents should teach them and limit their access, not IDs on discord. And of course porhub is making a fuss, are you, an (assuming an) adult going to go to your telco with your ID and say "hi, i'm John, i want to watch porn and jerk off, but you need to see my ID first"? Or will you find some other alternatives, where pornhub doesn't earn that money?
    - fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
      > Parenting is a good solution Yes, to most of society's problems. Yet they persist.
      - alexey-salmin 2y ago
        So? They equally persist in the face of endless laws, I don't see how it follows that piling more laws on top is a better idea than deferring this to parents.
alexey-salmin 2y ago
You keep saying it's flawed but I don't see how or why. What exactly is wrong with the idea that parents should look after their kids?
- JoshTriplett 2y ago
  In the eyes of people who propose laws like this, what's wrong is that that wouldn't let them forcibly impose their values on everyone else.