3 ms·

This is the first-order, emotional reaction, yes, but policy should be made based on its full effects, not just its sales pitch's popularity with first-order-em

This is the first-order, emotional reaction, yes, but policy should be made based on its full effects, not just its sales pitch's popularity with first-order-emoting voters.

intended 2y ago
The second order effects of cheap education are immense, ranging from longer life span, better health, stronger economies, amongst just a few. The matter at hand, specifically, is one about how our ability to verify is overwhelmed by our ability to generate content. This is playing out with recruitment, bug reports, complaint forms - and going all the way up to sophisticated fraud.
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago
  The third order effect of handing out money for nothing, is the chicks coming home to roost as anti-education movements tear down the nation.
  - lores 2y ago
    Europe as a whole manages to hand over money for nothing to would-be students in need without any anti-education backlash. An anti-education stance is the cause of protesting education subsidies, not their consequence.
    - spwa4 2y ago
      Yeah right. Now go visit East Germany, no shortage of anti-education anti-intellectual attitudes.
  - mcphage 2y ago
    > The third order effect of handing out money for nothing, is the chicks coming home to roost as anti-education movements Anti-education movements may be a third order effect for this, but it's a first order effect for other groups who are deliberately pushing anti-education efforts.
  - gosub100 2y ago
    No one's "anti education", except universities bloated with administration and professors who publish false data for the gov bux.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    This. People didn't agree on immigration levels yet they thought people fleeing horror should have shelter from the horror and be given asylum. The Democrats seemed to let the asylum process be abused as a general immigration process and now the US is having a huge pullback/backlash on asylum seekers.
  - intended 2y ago
    As someone else pointed out, yeah - anti education movements are a third order effect of how succesful education is at not making people vote for religious causes and non scientific positions. The threat of its efficacy, is why, since 1960 onwards, a large chunk of the western world has been figuring out how to bend psychology, rhetoric, and media forces to undermine "Ivory tower" intellectuals. Yes, a succesful movement has been undermined because it posed a threat to people with the money to spend to fight their battles. This is old news.
- philipallstar 2y ago
  It's not cheap education. What is the point in deliberately changing the topic? It's about paying people to consume free education.
  - patcon 2y ago
    No. It's a Sybil attack on subsidy to help ppl of different means equally make room for education in their lives. No one is "making money" unless they are committing fraud. They are being put on an equal playing field -- the subsidies are seemingly directed at the individual, but are terraforming [of the field] in nature, not for enrichment of the individual. I was able to get educated with full focus on that task, because my family prioritised saving for my education. I want others, without such privilege, to have access to such opportunity. If you choose to frame it also that "your parents paid you to consume free education", then so be it. But let's not pretend the state is doing something strange or against its core mission here
    - spwa4 2y ago
      Read the article. The students complained about aren't after the opportunity.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
"Giving out student aid for online classes is just ridiculous." This is also a sales pitch, playing to the far-right. (virtue signaling)
- philipallstar 2y ago
  You think virtue signalling is playing to the far right? Care to define... any of your terms?
  - dbspin 2y ago
    One can virtue signal on either political spectrum, obviously. Phatic, performative language and gestures to indicate allegiance and supplication are possible for any given philosophy. Bumper stickers are literally virtue signalling.
  - Octoth0rpe 2y ago
    The concept of virtue signaling does not imply a particular group that the signal is intended for, and absolutely can be for the far right.
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      hell, the concept comes out of signaling Christian Virtue and taking steps to look holier than thou
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    The fact you think the "libs" are the only ones who can virtue signal says a lot about you. The far-right have an entire playbook of dog whistles just for virtue signaling.
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    As others pointed out. "Virtue Signaling" is often a term of derision placed from the right onto the left. But is often done just as much on the other side. It's part of the 'right's vocabulary of labels for the left. I just like to point out all the times when the 'right' take part in "virtue signaling". Right wing , political or religious, often take part in "virtue signaling". Yet, seem unconscious of it, un-ware of their own biases, because to them they are not 'signaling' they are just speaking 'truth'. But of course, they are not. "God is real, hence I'm not just 'signaling' when I say it to my fellow believers".

This is the first-order, emotional reaction, yes, but policy should be made based on its full effects, not just its sales pitch's popularity with first-order-emoting voters.

intended 2y ago

The second order effects of cheap education are immense, ranging from longer life span, better health, stronger economies, amongst just a few. The matter at hand, specifically, is one about how our ability to verify is overwhelmed by our ability to generate content. This is playing out with recruitment, bug reports, complaint forms - and going all the way up to sophisticated fraud.

InDubioProRubio 2y ago
The third order effect of handing out money for nothing, is the chicks coming home to roost as anti-education movements tear down the nation.
- lores 2y ago
  Europe as a whole manages to hand over money for nothing to would-be students in need without any anti-education backlash. An anti-education stance is the cause of protesting education subsidies, not their consequence.
  - spwa4 2y ago
    Yeah right. Now go visit East Germany, no shortage of anti-education anti-intellectual attitudes.
- mcphage 2y ago
  > The third order effect of handing out money for nothing, is the chicks coming home to roost as anti-education movements Anti-education movements may be a third order effect for this, but it's a first order effect for other groups who are deliberately pushing anti-education efforts.
- gosub100 2y ago
  No one's "anti education", except universities bloated with administration and professors who publish false data for the gov bux.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  This. People didn't agree on immigration levels yet they thought people fleeing horror should have shelter from the horror and be given asylum. The Democrats seemed to let the asylum process be abused as a general immigration process and now the US is having a huge pullback/backlash on asylum seekers.
- intended 2y ago
  As someone else pointed out, yeah - anti education movements are a third order effect of how succesful education is at not making people vote for religious causes and non scientific positions. The threat of its efficacy, is why, since 1960 onwards, a large chunk of the western world has been figuring out how to bend psychology, rhetoric, and media forces to undermine "Ivory tower" intellectuals. Yes, a succesful movement has been undermined because it posed a threat to people with the money to spend to fight their battles. This is old news.
philipallstar 2y ago
It's not cheap education. What is the point in deliberately changing the topic? It's about paying people to consume free education.
- patcon 2y ago
  No. It's a Sybil attack on subsidy to help ppl of different means equally make room for education in their lives. No one is "making money" unless they are committing fraud. They are being put on an equal playing field -- the subsidies are seemingly directed at the individual, but are terraforming [of the field] in nature, not for enrichment of the individual. I was able to get educated with full focus on that task, because my family prioritised saving for my education. I want others, without such privilege, to have access to such opportunity. If you choose to frame it also that "your parents paid you to consume free education", then so be it. But let's not pretend the state is doing something strange or against its core mission here
  - spwa4 2y ago
    Read the article. The students complained about aren't after the opportunity.

FrustratedMonky 2y ago

"Giving out student aid for online classes is just ridiculous." This is also a sales pitch, playing to the far-right. (virtue signaling)

philipallstar 2y ago
You think virtue signalling is playing to the far right? Care to define... any of your terms?
- dbspin 2y ago
  One can virtue signal on either political spectrum, obviously. Phatic, performative language and gestures to indicate allegiance and supplication are possible for any given philosophy. Bumper stickers are literally virtue signalling.
- Octoth0rpe 2y ago
  The concept of virtue signaling does not imply a particular group that the signal is intended for, and absolutely can be for the far right.
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    hell, the concept comes out of signaling Christian Virtue and taking steps to look holier than thou
- 9283409232 2y ago
  The fact you think the "libs" are the only ones who can virtue signal says a lot about you. The far-right have an entire playbook of dog whistles just for virtue signaling.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  As others pointed out. "Virtue Signaling" is often a term of derision placed from the right onto the left. But is often done just as much on the other side. It's part of the 'right's vocabulary of labels for the left. I just like to point out all the times when the 'right' take part in "virtue signaling". Right wing , political or religious, often take part in "virtue signaling". Yet, seem unconscious of it, un-ware of their own biases, because to them they are not 'signaling' they are just speaking 'truth'. But of course, they are not. "God is real, hence I'm not just 'signaling' when I say it to my fellow believers".