4 ms·

A lot of the time, a lack of bugfixes comes from the incentive structure management has created. Specifically, you rarely get rewarded for fixing things. You ge

by cletus 1y ago

A lot of the time, a lack of bugfixes comes from the incentive structure management has created. Specifically, you rarely get rewarded for fixing things. You get rewarded for shipping new things. In effect, you're punished for fixing things because that's time you're not shipping new things. Ownership is another one. For example, product teams who are responsible for shipping new things but support for existing things get increasingly pushed onto support teams. This is really a consequence of the same incentive structure. This is partially why I don't think that all subscription software is bad. The Adobe end of the spectrum is bad. The Jetbrains end is good. There is value in creating good, reliable software. If your only source of revenue is new sales then bugs are even less of a priority until it's so bad it makes your software virtually unusuable. And usually it took a long while to get there with many ignored warnings.

conradfr 1y ago
Jetbrains still likes to gaslight you and say you are wrong about bugs or features. Recent example the removal of the commit modal.
- switch007 1y ago
  The whole New UI debacle really set the tone and expectations and I don't see them changing. They seem like a different company these days? Maybe I didn't really notice in the past.
  - conradfr 1y ago
    For me it was when they were copying Adobe UIs and removed colors from icons because "it was distracting". Nowadays they copy Vs code instead.
  - SkyPuncher 1y ago
    JetBrains is dead within 5 years unless they can get their AI game figured out (which they’re not). Don’t get me wrong, I love JetBrains products. However, there value has been almost exclusively in QoL for dev. AI is drastically cutting the need for that.
- hanikesn 1y ago
  What when is this going to be finally removed? I'm still reverting back to the old dialog on every machine.
  - conradfr 1y ago
    In the next release currently in beta, but they relented to move it to an unsupported plugin. Not sure if the idea.properties setting which still works will be removed. https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IJPL-177161/Modal-commit-moved-to-a-separate-plugin-in-2025.1-Discussion https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IJPL-177161/Modal-commi...
- kg 1y ago
  The jetbrains model is every new release fixes that one critical bug that's killing you, and adds 2 new critical bugs that will drive you mad. I eventually got fed up and jumped off that train.
  - sfn42 1y ago
    Not really sure what you guys are talking about. I've been using Rider for years and it's been great. I'm using the new UI and I have no problems with commits or anything else. Recently joined a new team where I have to use VS because we have to work through a remote desktop where I can't install new stuff without a lengthy process, and having used VS for a while now it's so much worse. I miss Rider practically every second I'm writing code. There is nothing that I need that VS does better, it's either the same or usually worse for everything I do. I hope I'll get a bit more used to it over time but so far I hate it. Feels like it's significantly reducing my velocity compared to Rider.
  - homebrewer 1y ago
    Where to? There's nothing even remotely comparable for many tech stacks. I've been looking for alternatives for many years (also being fed up with their disregard for bugs and performance), but there are none (expect for proper VS for Windows-first C++/C#).
    - kevingadd 1y ago
      Sadly, I just accepted having worse productivity. I didn't really have a choice, their bugs were actively breaking my workflow, like causing builds to fail. It definitely made me more frustrated and less productive on a day-to-day basis.
    - pjmlp 1y ago
      Eclipse and Netbeans for Java, QtCreator for C and C++ cross-platform, and VS if on Windows. If it really must be, VSCode for everything else. I never was a JetBrains fan, especially given the Android Studio experience, glad that is no longer a concern.
- hulitu 1y ago
  > Jetbrains still likes to gaslight you and say you are wrong about bugs or features. They learned from the best: Microsoft. Microsoft cannot fix bugs because it's "engineers" are busy rounding corners in UI elements.
tjoff 1y ago
... but support for existing things get increasingly pushed onto support teams. And support teams don't fix bugs?
- Ygg2 1y ago
  You're removing autonomy from the support team, this will demoralize them. The issue becomes, you have two teams, one moving fast, adding new features, often nonsensical to the support team, and the second one cleaning up afterward. Being in clean-up crew ain't fun at all. This builds up resentment, i.e. "Why are they doing this?". EDIT: If you make it so support team approval is necessary for feature team, you'll remove autonomy from feature team, causing resentment in their ranks (i.e. "Why are they slowing us down? We need this to hit our KPIs!").
  - citrin_ru 1y ago
    On top of that support team often undeerstaffed and overloaded while feature pushers get more positions.
  - yencabulator 1y ago
    Some 20+ years ago we solved this by leapfrogging. Team A does majority of new features in major release N. Team B for N+1. Team A for N+2. Team A maintains N until N+1 ships. Team B maintains N+1 until N+2 ships.
imtringued 1y ago
[flagged]
- zombot 1y ago
  The grammar of your own comment isn't any better.

by cletus 1y ago

conradfr 1y ago

Jetbrains still likes to gaslight you and say you are wrong about bugs or features. Recent example the removal of the commit modal.

switch007 1y ago
The whole New UI debacle really set the tone and expectations and I don't see them changing. They seem like a different company these days? Maybe I didn't really notice in the past.
- conradfr 1y ago
  For me it was when they were copying Adobe UIs and removed colors from icons because "it was distracting". Nowadays they copy Vs code instead.
- SkyPuncher 1y ago
  JetBrains is dead within 5 years unless they can get their AI game figured out (which they’re not). Don’t get me wrong, I love JetBrains products. However, there value has been almost exclusively in QoL for dev. AI is drastically cutting the need for that.
hanikesn 1y ago
What when is this going to be finally removed? I'm still reverting back to the old dialog on every machine.
- conradfr 1y ago
  In the next release currently in beta, but they relented to move it to an unsupported plugin. Not sure if the idea.properties setting which still works will be removed. https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IJPL-177161/Modal-commit-moved-to-a-separate-plugin-in-2025.1-Discussion https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IJPL-177161/Modal-commi...
kg 1y ago
The jetbrains model is every new release fixes that one critical bug that's killing you, and adds 2 new critical bugs that will drive you mad. I eventually got fed up and jumped off that train.
- sfn42 1y ago
  Not really sure what you guys are talking about. I've been using Rider for years and it's been great. I'm using the new UI and I have no problems with commits or anything else. Recently joined a new team where I have to use VS because we have to work through a remote desktop where I can't install new stuff without a lengthy process, and having used VS for a while now it's so much worse. I miss Rider practically every second I'm writing code. There is nothing that I need that VS does better, it's either the same or usually worse for everything I do. I hope I'll get a bit more used to it over time but so far I hate it. Feels like it's significantly reducing my velocity compared to Rider.
- homebrewer 1y ago
  Where to? There's nothing even remotely comparable for many tech stacks. I've been looking for alternatives for many years (also being fed up with their disregard for bugs and performance), but there are none (expect for proper VS for Windows-first C++/C#).
  - kevingadd 1y ago
    Sadly, I just accepted having worse productivity. I didn't really have a choice, their bugs were actively breaking my workflow, like causing builds to fail. It definitely made me more frustrated and less productive on a day-to-day basis.
  - pjmlp 1y ago
    Eclipse and Netbeans for Java, QtCreator for C and C++ cross-platform, and VS if on Windows. If it really must be, VSCode for everything else. I never was a JetBrains fan, especially given the Android Studio experience, glad that is no longer a concern.
hulitu 1y ago
> Jetbrains still likes to gaslight you and say you are wrong about bugs or features. They learned from the best: Microsoft. Microsoft cannot fix bugs because it's "engineers" are busy rounding corners in UI elements.

tjoff 1y ago

... but support for existing things get increasingly pushed onto support teams. And support teams don't fix bugs?

Ygg2 1y ago
You're removing autonomy from the support team, this will demoralize them. The issue becomes, you have two teams, one moving fast, adding new features, often nonsensical to the support team, and the second one cleaning up afterward. Being in clean-up crew ain't fun at all. This builds up resentment, i.e. "Why are they doing this?". EDIT: If you make it so support team approval is necessary for feature team, you'll remove autonomy from feature team, causing resentment in their ranks (i.e. "Why are they slowing us down? We need this to hit our KPIs!").
- citrin_ru 1y ago
  On top of that support team often undeerstaffed and overloaded while feature pushers get more positions.
- yencabulator 1y ago
  Some 20+ years ago we solved this by leapfrogging. Team A does majority of new features in major release N. Team B for N+1. Team A for N+2. Team A maintains N until N+1 ships. Team B maintains N+1 until N+2 ships.

imtringued 1y ago

[flagged]

zombot 1y ago
The grammar of your own comment isn't any better.