3 ms·

Containing fragments doesn't mean this is a dire wolf, or does it? Biological categories like species are fuzzy anyway. There is tremendous variation within eac

by api 2y ago

Containing fragments doesn't mean this is a dire wolf, or does it? Biological categories like species are fuzzy anyway. There is tremendous variation within each species. But where do you draw a line? It's something that perhaps has more in common with a dire wolf than extant wolves. Maybe it looks like one. Does it act like one? Do we have any way of knowing?

bell-cot 2y ago
> Containing fragments doesn't mean this is a dire wolf, or does it? Only the Marketing Dept. (and some gullible-when-it-pays-to-be reporters) think they are Dire Wolves.
pmags 2y ago
Yes, species/lineage/population distinctions are quite fuzzy at the level of divergence under consideration here (dire wolves vs gray wolves). Here's what was actually have done according to the New Yorker article, starting with a gray wolf genome as the baseline: After almost a year of computational genetic analysis, Colossal researchers used Crispr to make twenty edits on fourteen genes. Fifteen edits were derived from Colossal’s study of the dire-wolf genome and five tweaks were derived from scrutiny of the gray-wolf genome. 20 edits and 14 genes -- clearly some related to coat color, however: But the genes that guided coat color presented a problem: they carried with them a risk of blindness and deafness. (In humans, variations of these genes can lead to Waardenburg syndrome, which causes pigmentation deficiencies, among other problems.) So the group decided to edit a different gene that, when expressed in dogs, also codes for a lighter coat. So the coat color alleles are NOT the dire wolf alleles.
- calf 2y ago
  I don't get it, so dire wolves were only 20 gene changes from gray wolves? Not thousands of tiny,crucial changes all over their respective genetic codes?
  - pmags 2y ago
    Above I'm just reporting what the New Yorker reports that Colossus has accomplished. Reading between the lines, I take the reporting to imply that these 20 edits are what Colossus thinks is sufficient (at least for marketing purposes ;-) to recapitulate some of the key phenotypic traits of dire wolves. Does that make them actually dire wolves? Not in my opinion. I'd probably describe the genetically engineered pups as "isogenic with parental gray wolf genomes with the addition of 20 allelic edits that recapitulate key aspects of the dire-wolf phenotype" (or something to the effect; Colossus hasn't published anything by which to evaluate their claims). I don't work on canids, but a quick PubMed search turns up this paper: Perri AR, Mitchell KJ, et al. Dire wolves were the last of an ancient New World canid lineage. Nature. 2021 Mar;591(7848):87-91. doi: 10.1038/s41586-020-03082-x. Epub 2021 Jan 13. PMID: 33442059. The analyses in that paper suggests quite a bit deeper divergence between dire wolves and gray wolves than the New Yorker articles implies.
  - freejazz 2y ago
    No. The scientists made those 20 gene changes in order to produce a gray wolf that looks like a dire wolf.
indoordin0saur 2y ago
I have to agree. While this is a very cool achievement and I'm excited to see what this company does next, it seems disingenuous to claim they brought a species back from extinction. The pups are still genetically much more like modern wolves than they are dire wolves.
shadowgovt 2y ago
These aren't even concerns limited to genetic engineering. There was a good (if memory serves) Radiolab story ages ago about the conservation efforts on the Galapagos islands. The relevant part is that Lonesome George's genome died out with him, and as a result there aren't any tortoises left that can fill the fauna niche on his island of origin. But since the tortoises on other islands are closely genetically related (even given the separation between them), ecologists started a multi-generational breeding program to attempt to select the key traits of Lonesome George's strain so they can introduce a new population to the island that will do the same job his lineage did in the food web. ... which begs the question: when you're doing Bene-Gesserit-style eugenics on tortoises to get the perfect specimens, what's the nature of the nature you're trying to preserve? Humans cannot interact with the natural world without changing it, because it is the nature of life (and human life in particular) to change things. The question isn't how we don't make an impact; it's how do we manage that impact responsibly? (I have no idea if breeding dire-wolf-alikes with genetic modification is responsible or not. Let me know if they get out of the lab and become an invasive species, I think).
glacier5674 2y ago
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by api 2y ago

bell-cot 2y ago

> Containing fragments doesn't mean this is a dire wolf, or does it? Only the Marketing Dept. (and some gullible-when-it-pays-to-be reporters) think they are Dire Wolves.

pmags 2y ago

Yes, species/lineage/population distinctions are quite fuzzy at the level of divergence under consideration here (dire wolves vs gray wolves). Here's what was actually have done according to the New Yorker article, starting with a gray wolf genome as the baseline: After almost a year of computational genetic analysis, Colossal researchers used Crispr to make twenty edits on fourteen genes. Fifteen edits were derived from Colossal’s study of the dire-wolf genome and five tweaks were derived from scrutiny of the gray-wolf genome. 20 edits and 14 genes -- clearly some related to coat color, however: But the genes that guided coat color presented a problem: they carried with them a risk of blindness and deafness. (In humans, variations of these genes can lead to Waardenburg syndrome, which causes pigmentation deficiencies, among other problems.) So the group decided to edit a different gene that, when expressed in dogs, also codes for a lighter coat. So the coat color alleles are NOT the dire wolf alleles.

calf 2y ago
I don't get it, so dire wolves were only 20 gene changes from gray wolves? Not thousands of tiny,crucial changes all over their respective genetic codes?
- pmags 2y ago
  Above I'm just reporting what the New Yorker reports that Colossus has accomplished. Reading between the lines, I take the reporting to imply that these 20 edits are what Colossus thinks is sufficient (at least for marketing purposes ;-) to recapitulate some of the key phenotypic traits of dire wolves. Does that make them actually dire wolves? Not in my opinion. I'd probably describe the genetically engineered pups as "isogenic with parental gray wolf genomes with the addition of 20 allelic edits that recapitulate key aspects of the dire-wolf phenotype" (or something to the effect; Colossus hasn't published anything by which to evaluate their claims). I don't work on canids, but a quick PubMed search turns up this paper: Perri AR, Mitchell KJ, et al. Dire wolves were the last of an ancient New World canid lineage. Nature. 2021 Mar;591(7848):87-91. doi: 10.1038/s41586-020-03082-x. Epub 2021 Jan 13. PMID: 33442059. The analyses in that paper suggests quite a bit deeper divergence between dire wolves and gray wolves than the New Yorker articles implies.
- freejazz 2y ago
  No. The scientists made those 20 gene changes in order to produce a gray wolf that looks like a dire wolf.

indoordin0saur 2y ago

I have to agree. While this is a very cool achievement and I'm excited to see what this company does next, it seems disingenuous to claim they brought a species back from extinction. The pups are still genetically much more like modern wolves than they are dire wolves.

shadowgovt 2y ago

These aren't even concerns limited to genetic engineering. There was a good (if memory serves) Radiolab story ages ago about the conservation efforts on the Galapagos islands. The relevant part is that Lonesome George's genome died out with him, and as a result there aren't any tortoises left that can fill the fauna niche on his island of origin. But since the tortoises on other islands are closely genetically related (even given the separation between them), ecologists started a multi-generational breeding program to attempt to select the key traits of Lonesome George's strain so they can introduce a new population to the island that will do the same job his lineage did in the food web. ... which begs the question: when you're doing Bene-Gesserit-style eugenics on tortoises to get the perfect specimens, what's the nature of the nature you're trying to preserve? Humans cannot interact with the natural world without changing it, because it is the nature of life (and human life in particular) to change things. The question isn't how we don't make an impact; it's how do we manage that impact responsibly? (I have no idea if breeding dire-wolf-alikes with genetic modification is responsible or not. Let me know if they get out of the lab and become an invasive species, I think).

glacier5674 2y ago

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