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> current Swift tools are barely keeping it together for the “happy path” of building for Apple devices (it’s not that happy) I agree, but I'm telling myself t

> current Swift tools are barely keeping it together for the “happy path” of building for Apple devices (it’s not that happy) I agree, but I'm telling myself this is only a temporary pain caused by the changes for supporting Swift 6 language mode. Are you talking about something else?

isodev 2y ago
Temporary but measured in years and forced on every Swift dev out there … hard to dismiss. My comment was not about that though, I was more thinking about the super slow build times, unreliable SPM with strange limitations, Xcode still shows errors while reporting a successful build, Previews not previewing, etc.
- deergomoo 2y ago
  Don’t forget our old friend “The compiler is unable to type-check this expression in reasonable time”
refulgentis 2y ago
For context, I was saying that same thing in 2017*, because it seemed obvious, especialy given the elite consensus was it was obvious SwiftUI was being introduced to allow full cross platform development, including web. In retrospect, I was starstruck by the people I learned programming from, and Apple Neue funds software engineering, especially developer tooling, to the point it is not actively harmful, as opposed to not painful, and very opposed to not-harmful-and-not-painful-on-not-our-platforms. * Of course, not for Swift 6 Language Mode™, the thing is, there's always been a Huge Project that's launching, but not landing...
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Web was never part of SwiftUI story, where does that come from?
  - refulgentis 2y ago
    You're absolutely right, never made any sense. I'm not comfy calling out specific names, but the sort of luminary who would have been featured on Daring Fireball over the years proposed this and took umbrage to this being pointed out at the time. I can think of 2 off the top of my head who specifically did this, one who went on about it until they saw SwiftUI x macOS 1.0 and that became their new drum to beat on. (i.e. the quality was low)
erikrothoff 2y ago
Is this still a thing in Swift? I loved Swift 1, spent a couple of days upgrading to Swift 2, a week or more for Swift 3. At that point I just switched to React Native. I understand that iterating is generally a good thing, but the constant cykle breaking changes in the language was just too much.
- Daedren 2y ago
  Yes. It feels like the language is being handled by academics who don't actually use it, Swift 6 really drives it down. The lack of Sendable support for Combine and half-assed support on Async Algorithms only makes it more painful to transition at this point in time.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    Disagree about the academics point but Async Algorithms is basically an abandoned project at this point. There is someone working on it but the intention is that it evolves basically at the pace that the language does, but without the investment that the language gets. I would recommend against relying on anything going on there.
    - elpakal 2y ago
      Are you talking about Combine or Async Algorithms? This has been brought up before about Combine, but AA's repo still has some recent commits.
      - saagarjha 2y ago
        No, I'm talking about the latter. Combine is truly dead but the other repo is mired in an inability to make real changes, because that requires significant review effort, which is not really there. So it's just bugfixes and small tweaks.
    - Daedren 2y ago
      Between a dead Combine that no longer functions in Swift 6 or a severely handicapped AsyncSequence lacking basic features, where are developers supposed to turn to? All these projects like Async Algorithms, AsyncExtensions, Asynchrone, etc. are being born out of necessity. Deprecating Combine would be less of a problem if Sendable wasn’t a hard requirement but it is.

isodev 2y ago

Temporary but measured in years and forced on every Swift dev out there … hard to dismiss. My comment was not about that though, I was more thinking about the super slow build times, unreliable SPM with strange limitations, Xcode still shows errors while reporting a successful build, Previews not previewing, etc.

deergomoo 2y ago
Don’t forget our old friend “The compiler is unable to type-check this expression in reasonable time”

refulgentis 2y ago

For context, I was saying that same thing in 2017*, because it seemed obvious, especialy given the elite consensus was it was obvious SwiftUI was being introduced to allow full cross platform development, including web. In retrospect, I was starstruck by the people I learned programming from, and Apple Neue funds software engineering, especially developer tooling, to the point it is not actively harmful, as opposed to not painful, and very opposed to not-harmful-and-not-painful-on-not-our-platforms. * Of course, not for Swift 6 Language Mode™, the thing is, there's always been a Huge Project that's launching, but not landing...

pjmlp 2y ago
Web was never part of SwiftUI story, where does that come from?
- refulgentis 2y ago
  You're absolutely right, never made any sense. I'm not comfy calling out specific names, but the sort of luminary who would have been featured on Daring Fireball over the years proposed this and took umbrage to this being pointed out at the time. I can think of 2 off the top of my head who specifically did this, one who went on about it until they saw SwiftUI x macOS 1.0 and that became their new drum to beat on. (i.e. the quality was low)

erikrothoff 2y ago

Is this still a thing in Swift? I loved Swift 1, spent a couple of days upgrading to Swift 2, a week or more for Swift 3. At that point I just switched to React Native. I understand that iterating is generally a good thing, but the constant cykle breaking changes in the language was just too much.

Daedren 2y ago
Yes. It feels like the language is being handled by academics who don't actually use it, Swift 6 really drives it down. The lack of Sendable support for Combine and half-assed support on Async Algorithms only makes it more painful to transition at this point in time.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  Disagree about the academics point but Async Algorithms is basically an abandoned project at this point. There is someone working on it but the intention is that it evolves basically at the pace that the language does, but without the investment that the language gets. I would recommend against relying on anything going on there.
  - elpakal 2y ago
    Are you talking about Combine or Async Algorithms? This has been brought up before about Combine, but AA's repo still has some recent commits.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      No, I'm talking about the latter. Combine is truly dead but the other repo is mired in an inability to make real changes, because that requires significant review effort, which is not really there. So it's just bugfixes and small tweaks.
  - Daedren 2y ago
    Between a dead Combine that no longer functions in Swift 6 or a severely handicapped AsyncSequence lacking basic features, where are developers supposed to turn to? All these projects like Async Algorithms, AsyncExtensions, Asynchrone, etc. are being born out of necessity. Deprecating Combine would be less of a problem if Sendable wasn’t a hard requirement but it is.