4 ms·

It has to be a stimulus they feel as negative. Losing office is about the only unarguable one. Barring a coup, that isn't happening any time soon. Practically

It has to be a stimulus they feel as negative. Losing office is about the only unarguable one. Barring a coup, that isn't happening any time soon. Practically any other stimulus will be perceived as positive.

delusional 2y ago
I think what the commenter says is more dire than that. Even after this administration, this is going to keep happening until a major event happens. It's not just about the ghouls in there now, it's about the ghouls that will follow.
- simonh 2y ago
  A lot of people seem to think this is an anomaly, but they thought that about the first Trump term. Fundamentally Trump is a symptom. When he goes, all the voters that voted for him will still be there, and they’ll still have all the reasons they voted for him.
  - throwawaygmbno 2y ago
    It is more dire than that. The south was basically completely forgiven for starting the civil war and fighting for slavery. Then as soon as they were given a little bit of leeway they enacted Jim Crow laws, began erecting statues of the losers of the Civil War, and started the KKK to drive out black people they could no longer use as slaves. Many of the people you see in films and photos furiously protesting the civil rights act, picketing with signs against MLK Jr, lynching people during that time, putting glass in the seats of children because the schools were forced to end segregation, etc are still alive. Trump was grown and had started college when the Civil Rights act passed. Its time to start just forgiving them because they never seem to forget.
  - david422 2y ago
    > When he goes, all the voters that voted for him will still be there, and they’ll still have all the reasons they voted for him. IMO this is a problem with the Democratic party not connecting with voters. Voters voting for Trump don't feel represented by Democrats, and that is something Democrats should be solving for.
    - dralley 2y ago
      It's many things, and that is certainly one of them. But a crazy percentage of voters thought the economy was literally in a recession. Not even that it was doing poorly, but that there was a recession. Some people just live in an alternate reality.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      I agree partially. But there is a large part of the MAGA movement who hate anyone that is not a Christian White Straight male getting ahead. The Democrats will never get those people. The Democratic Party is not blameless. They are seen as being soft on immigration now. Obama deported more people than Trump. They forgot the lesson that allowed Bill Clinton to win - “It’s the Economy Stupid”. And no matter how you feel about it. There is a large part of the United States, even among the LGB crowd who don’t want biological men in women’s sports. DEI the way it is framed is toxic to millions and I as a Black guy rolled my eyes at much of the indoctrination and “ally” nonsense I had to endure during my stint at BigTech. No matter how you feel about this either, it takes a remarkable amount of lack of self awareness by the DNC not to know how toxic this attitude is to a large swath of American voters. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/02/dnc-meeting/681548/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/02/dnc-mee... > The rules specify that when we have a gender-nonbinary candidate or officer, the nonbinary individual is counted as neither male nor female, and the remaining six officers must be gender balanced
      - monkeyfun 2y ago
        Out of curiosity: how come only LGB? I'm trans, and I'd be quick to complain about how bad the narratives are there. Especially in terms of people over-focusing on such a small issue when hardly any trans people are in competitive sports and there's issues 1000x more important to our daily lives and safety that need to be handled sooner than "competitive sports teams". I'm not the only trans person like this, so it seems odd to exclude a whole group from even the possibility of agreement.
        scarface_74 2y ago
  - gopher_space 2y ago
    Yes, but we’ve seen how easily they can be controlled by playing to their hatred.
  - wat10000 2y ago
    That’s what really depresses me. What’s the point in fighting this stuff when half the voters think it’s ok? It’s one thing to take down an unpopular leader causing trouble, quite another to take down tens of millions of people.
    - zombiwoof 2y ago
      I’m convinced they don’t think it’s okay, they just think whatever Fox News tells them endlessly is what’s okay If Fox News tomorrow changed their tone and message all those sheep would change It’s that simple
      - wat10000 2y ago
        For sure. It took about two seconds after USAID got wrecked for people to come out of the woodwork saying “oh yeah, USAID was notoriously corrupt, everybody knew that forever.” When I’m pretty sure they didn’t know the place existed the previous day.
        budududuroiu 2y ago
        Hearing your average Joe suddenly start talking about USAID using the same talking points and tone as a Twitter Marxist Leninist tankie was indeed wild
        ethbr1 2y ago
        The most ironic part about the entire USAID debacle was the complete failure of the new right to understand why American soft power was engineered that way, and what it was doing. It was like an even more hamfisted change management process than the neocons upsetting their apple carts, before they understood how things were balanced on them. Not to say anything shouldn't be changed, but jesus... folks need to have a little humility and curiosity -- try to understand what the folks before them were attempting to do and how.
        2y ago
  - throw__away7391 2y ago
    True, but I think this misses the deeper dynamic nature of such things. Trump is the symptom, but these voters were also reacting in their turn. It is highly unlikely that this exact sequence of triggers will immediately repeat themselves.
  - isleyaardvark 2y ago
    Earlier than the first term. "The fever will break": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBvoG7pBc1A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBvoG7pBc1A
stevage 2y ago
I think that's what effective means.
mmooss 2y ago
High-aggression is a negotiating tactic with basic goals - to intimidate the other side into thinking you are implacable, and to make you seem unstoppable. It's a tactic. Like everyone else, they have interests and goals and needs, and they can be deterred in the same way. The problem is, nobody really tries. The Democrats keep doing the same ineffective things - a demonstration of being cowed and intimidated. For example, the Dems have almost no ability to communicate with the public. Whatever Trump and the GOP say are effectively true because there is no counter voice (beyond some third parties). The Dems don't do anything about it; they just keep communicating in the same way. The Dems have no talking points. A few of them are organizing now around 'economic populism' - in other words, they are completely cowed and will avoid all the major threats to freedom, democracy, the rule of law, safety; the corruption, cruelty, and hate. They are going to their safe space - economic policy!
- curt15 2y ago
  >For example, the Dems have almost no ability to communicate with the public. This +100. Even B Clinton as a 25+yr citizen communicates better with the public than 99% of active Dem politicians.
  - brightball 2y ago
    When people can see their social accounts copying and pasting the same content it does look a little…disconnected/inauthentic.
    - trhway 2y ago
      Even when it is directly connected - ie. the people will see much higher prices copy pasted everywhere due to the Trump’s import taxes while Trump will be giving to the billionaires the tax cut financed by the tariffs - and the people will still cheer up on Trump.
      - mmooss 2y ago
        Because the policy is not the issue. Trump has never been consistent or carried through much on policy; he lies to everyone. It's the politics and ideology - extreme reactionary politics of destroying 'liberals' regardless of the cost.
caycep 2y ago
In theory, Congressional investigation w/ power of subpoena and an ability to hand out prison sentences. Also in theory, if they lose office, subsequent admin needs to be able to prosecute. Assuming we can vote again in the future
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- nerdponx 2y ago
  We literally have a Supreme Court decision saying that the President has immunity as long as he was acting as part of his official duties. So while any clear-minded person will see that, say, running a protection racket on law firms from the White House is blatantly illegal and a crime, all Trump has to do is argue that he did so in his official capacity as president and not as a private citizen, and he is instantly 100% immune from consequences.
  - caycep 2y ago
    hence the "in theory". I do realize GOP/Unitary Prez court packing has been an issue and does need to be addressed as well...
    - nerdponx 2y ago
      That's the thing. Regardless of whether or not you think the Court was unconstitutionally packed (due to the Senate running out the clock on the Garland nomination under Obama), it doesn't matter, because SCOTUS rulings are precedent and therefore effectively law. So it's no longer true even in theory, unless Trump v. US is overturned.

delusional 2y ago

I think what the commenter says is more dire than that. Even after this administration, this is going to keep happening until a major event happens. It's not just about the ghouls in there now, it's about the ghouls that will follow.

simonh 2y ago
A lot of people seem to think this is an anomaly, but they thought that about the first Trump term. Fundamentally Trump is a symptom. When he goes, all the voters that voted for him will still be there, and they’ll still have all the reasons they voted for him.
- throwawaygmbno 2y ago
  It is more dire than that. The south was basically completely forgiven for starting the civil war and fighting for slavery. Then as soon as they were given a little bit of leeway they enacted Jim Crow laws, began erecting statues of the losers of the Civil War, and started the KKK to drive out black people they could no longer use as slaves. Many of the people you see in films and photos furiously protesting the civil rights act, picketing with signs against MLK Jr, lynching people during that time, putting glass in the seats of children because the schools were forced to end segregation, etc are still alive. Trump was grown and had started college when the Civil Rights act passed. Its time to start just forgiving them because they never seem to forget.
- david422 2y ago
  > When he goes, all the voters that voted for him will still be there, and they’ll still have all the reasons they voted for him. IMO this is a problem with the Democratic party not connecting with voters. Voters voting for Trump don't feel represented by Democrats, and that is something Democrats should be solving for.
  - dralley 2y ago
    It's many things, and that is certainly one of them. But a crazy percentage of voters thought the economy was literally in a recession. Not even that it was doing poorly, but that there was a recession. Some people just live in an alternate reality.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    I agree partially. But there is a large part of the MAGA movement who hate anyone that is not a Christian White Straight male getting ahead. The Democrats will never get those people. The Democratic Party is not blameless. They are seen as being soft on immigration now. Obama deported more people than Trump. They forgot the lesson that allowed Bill Clinton to win - “It’s the Economy Stupid”. And no matter how you feel about it. There is a large part of the United States, even among the LGB crowd who don’t want biological men in women’s sports. DEI the way it is framed is toxic to millions and I as a Black guy rolled my eyes at much of the indoctrination and “ally” nonsense I had to endure during my stint at BigTech. No matter how you feel about this either, it takes a remarkable amount of lack of self awareness by the DNC not to know how toxic this attitude is to a large swath of American voters. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/02/dnc-meeting/681548/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/02/dnc-mee... > The rules specify that when we have a gender-nonbinary candidate or officer, the nonbinary individual is counted as neither male nor female, and the remaining six officers must be gender balanced
    - monkeyfun 2y ago
      Out of curiosity: how come only LGB? I'm trans, and I'd be quick to complain about how bad the narratives are there. Especially in terms of people over-focusing on such a small issue when hardly any trans people are in competitive sports and there's issues 1000x more important to our daily lives and safety that need to be handled sooner than "competitive sports teams". I'm not the only trans person like this, so it seems odd to exclude a whole group from even the possibility of agreement.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
- gopher_space 2y ago
  Yes, but we’ve seen how easily they can be controlled by playing to their hatred.
- wat10000 2y ago
  That’s what really depresses me. What’s the point in fighting this stuff when half the voters think it’s ok? It’s one thing to take down an unpopular leader causing trouble, quite another to take down tens of millions of people.
  - zombiwoof 2y ago
    I’m convinced they don’t think it’s okay, they just think whatever Fox News tells them endlessly is what’s okay If Fox News tomorrow changed their tone and message all those sheep would change It’s that simple
    - wat10000 2y ago
      For sure. It took about two seconds after USAID got wrecked for people to come out of the woodwork saying “oh yeah, USAID was notoriously corrupt, everybody knew that forever.” When I’m pretty sure they didn’t know the place existed the previous day.
      - budududuroiu 2y ago
        Hearing your average Joe suddenly start talking about USAID using the same talking points and tone as a Twitter Marxist Leninist tankie was indeed wild
        ethbr1 2y ago
        The most ironic part about the entire USAID debacle was the complete failure of the new right to understand why American soft power was engineered that way, and what it was doing. It was like an even more hamfisted change management process than the neocons upsetting their apple carts, before they understood how things were balanced on them. Not to say anything shouldn't be changed, but jesus... folks need to have a little humility and curiosity -- try to understand what the folks before them were attempting to do and how.
        2y ago
- throw__away7391 2y ago
  True, but I think this misses the deeper dynamic nature of such things. Trump is the symptom, but these voters were also reacting in their turn. It is highly unlikely that this exact sequence of triggers will immediately repeat themselves.
- isleyaardvark 2y ago
  Earlier than the first term. "The fever will break": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBvoG7pBc1A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBvoG7pBc1A

stevage 2y ago

I think that's what effective means.

mmooss 2y ago

High-aggression is a negotiating tactic with basic goals - to intimidate the other side into thinking you are implacable, and to make you seem unstoppable. It's a tactic. Like everyone else, they have interests and goals and needs, and they can be deterred in the same way. The problem is, nobody really tries. The Democrats keep doing the same ineffective things - a demonstration of being cowed and intimidated. For example, the Dems have almost no ability to communicate with the public. Whatever Trump and the GOP say are effectively true because there is no counter voice (beyond some third parties). The Dems don't do anything about it; they just keep communicating in the same way. The Dems have no talking points. A few of them are organizing now around 'economic populism' - in other words, they are completely cowed and will avoid all the major threats to freedom, democracy, the rule of law, safety; the corruption, cruelty, and hate. They are going to their safe space - economic policy!

curt15 2y ago
>For example, the Dems have almost no ability to communicate with the public. This +100. Even B Clinton as a 25+yr citizen communicates better with the public than 99% of active Dem politicians.
- brightball 2y ago
  When people can see their social accounts copying and pasting the same content it does look a little…disconnected/inauthentic.
  - trhway 2y ago
    Even when it is directly connected - ie. the people will see much higher prices copy pasted everywhere due to the Trump’s import taxes while Trump will be giving to the billionaires the tax cut financed by the tariffs - and the people will still cheer up on Trump.
    - mmooss 2y ago
      Because the policy is not the issue. Trump has never been consistent or carried through much on policy; he lies to everyone. It's the politics and ideology - extreme reactionary politics of destroying 'liberals' regardless of the cost.

caycep 2y ago

In theory, Congressional investigation w/ power of subpoena and an ability to hand out prison sentences. Also in theory, if they lose office, subsequent admin needs to be able to prosecute. Assuming we can vote again in the future

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
nerdponx 2y ago
We literally have a Supreme Court decision saying that the President has immunity as long as he was acting as part of his official duties. So while any clear-minded person will see that, say, running a protection racket on law firms from the White House is blatantly illegal and a crime, all Trump has to do is argue that he did so in his official capacity as president and not as a private citizen, and he is instantly 100% immune from consequences.
- caycep 2y ago
  hence the "in theory". I do realize GOP/Unitary Prez court packing has been an issue and does need to be addressed as well...
  - nerdponx 2y ago
    That's the thing. Regardless of whether or not you think the Court was unconstitutionally packed (due to the Senate running out the clock on the Garland nomination under Obama), it doesn't matter, because SCOTUS rulings are precedent and therefore effectively law. So it's no longer true even in theory, unless Trump v. US is overturned.