4 ms·

It is good to hear that it is coming from countries which has been played by the Western World on the globalization front. Then ripping off those who profited f

It is good to hear that it is coming from countries which has been played by the Western World on the globalization front. Then ripping off those who profited from their low status and relevance on the world market gives it a nice Robin Hood touch.

samlinnfer 2y ago
It's good to hear that scammers are taking your grandparents retirement money as reparations for colonial acts?
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  Most people dramatically underestimate how widespread their cultural moral system is. Billions of people live in cultures where scamming is perfectly moral.
  - pembrook 2y ago
    And most people dramatically underestimate what a death sentence a low trust society is for economic development. Countries that allow a culture of scamming are all poor because a low trust society will never develop into a first world economy. Trust and property rights are the basis of all development and investment and human collaboration.
    - stouset 2y ago
      Which is why it’s so depressing to see the U.S. backslide into this so quickly and willfully.
      - terribleperson 2y ago
        Honestly, I don't think it's been fast. We're just in the final phases. It's been building for decades. Venerating making money over all else and justifying anything as long as it's profitable and you get away with it has been going on for a while. Everyone sees the very wealthy and politically connected getting away with crimes and things that should be crimes, and that culture of money above all spreads. Corruption starts at the top, but eventually it's everywhere.
  - netsharc 2y ago
    For today's whataboutism: billions of people live in cultures where buying the best-priced product and not noticing or ignoring the slave labour or environmental costs in the production chain is perfectly moral. E.g. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-merchant-iphone-supplychain-20170723-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-merchant-iphone-... There's also a lack of outrage of how our trash gets exported. It's the phone producer or the trash-people's crooked morals, not ours.. ;-)
- Krasnol 2y ago
  Why are you repeating what I wrote? Calling Globalization "colonial acts" is a nice touch, though. Thanks.
  - aswegs8 2y ago
    Come on, please keep these kind of polemics off HN...
pembrook 2y ago
Scammers prey on the most vulnerable, mentally handicapped people, and even their own neighbors. Ask Nigerians how they feel about the fact they can’t interact with most western institutions or develop economically due to the actions of their worst neighbors. It may surprise you to learn the largest population of victims of Nigerian scammers are other Nigerians. The dollar figures may not reach $1T (since Nigeria is poor) but it actively inhibits every day life in these countries and leads to the economic deadzone that is a low trust society. As California learned, decriminalizing theft does not help the poor, in fact it disproportionately affects them the most. Please re-examine your luxury beliefs.
- Krasnol 2y ago
  > Ask Nigerians how they feel about the fact they can’t interact with most western institutions due to the actions of their worst neighbors. How about you ask Nigerians how they are besides this topic? You think everything is good in Nigeria if it wouldn't be for that scam-issue? In fact, you are displaying your own luxury believes here. It seems you think those scammers would have a normal job if they wouldn't be scamming people. Like, they have a choice. Yes, many Nigerians are scammed by other Nigerians. I am aware of that, but if "scamming" wouldn't be possible, those people would do other criminal things to their own people and the reason is that those countries have severe economic problems making it hard for normal people to have a life the way we live here in the beautiful West. Them scamming their way into the West is as a small payback on the same road as the globalized markets operate. Those scammers rip off Westerners who profit from those same roads and the rip off their Western companies practice in the scammers home countries. So yeah, I did hear that strategy already. It is an attempt at hacking my radicalized social behavior through the backdoor, while simultaneously diverting attention from those who actually hurt people in those countries: western politicians and companies. You will fail more often now with this strategy since the wave is rolling back and there are not many other strategies of diversion. They were never needed before. Times change.
  - pembrook 2y ago
    Read up on how economic development works. Ask any of the Asian tiger economies that were formerly victims of colonialism how they economically developed out of poverty. Developing trusted institutions leads to outside investment. Outside investment leads to growth. Growth leads to not being poor. When nobody will invest in Nigeria because nobody actually trusts they won’t get bamboozled, this is a fundamental chicken and egg problem. Again, I would strongly suggest re-examining the luxury robinhood narrative you have in your head.

samlinnfer 2y ago

It's good to hear that scammers are taking your grandparents retirement money as reparations for colonial acts?

throwaway48476 2y ago
Most people dramatically underestimate how widespread their cultural moral system is. Billions of people live in cultures where scamming is perfectly moral.
- pembrook 2y ago
  And most people dramatically underestimate what a death sentence a low trust society is for economic development. Countries that allow a culture of scamming are all poor because a low trust society will never develop into a first world economy. Trust and property rights are the basis of all development and investment and human collaboration.
  - stouset 2y ago
    Which is why it’s so depressing to see the U.S. backslide into this so quickly and willfully.
    - terribleperson 2y ago
      Honestly, I don't think it's been fast. We're just in the final phases. It's been building for decades. Venerating making money over all else and justifying anything as long as it's profitable and you get away with it has been going on for a while. Everyone sees the very wealthy and politically connected getting away with crimes and things that should be crimes, and that culture of money above all spreads. Corruption starts at the top, but eventually it's everywhere.
- netsharc 2y ago
  For today's whataboutism: billions of people live in cultures where buying the best-priced product and not noticing or ignoring the slave labour or environmental costs in the production chain is perfectly moral. E.g. https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-merchant-iphone-supplychain-20170723-story.html https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-merchant-iphone-... There's also a lack of outrage of how our trash gets exported. It's the phone producer or the trash-people's crooked morals, not ours.. ;-)
Krasnol 2y ago
Why are you repeating what I wrote? Calling Globalization "colonial acts" is a nice touch, though. Thanks.
- aswegs8 2y ago
  Come on, please keep these kind of polemics off HN...

pembrook 2y ago

Scammers prey on the most vulnerable, mentally handicapped people, and even their own neighbors. Ask Nigerians how they feel about the fact they can’t interact with most western institutions or develop economically due to the actions of their worst neighbors. It may surprise you to learn the largest population of victims of Nigerian scammers are other Nigerians. The dollar figures may not reach $1T (since Nigeria is poor) but it actively inhibits every day life in these countries and leads to the economic deadzone that is a low trust society. As California learned, decriminalizing theft does not help the poor, in fact it disproportionately affects them the most. Please re-examine your luxury beliefs.

Krasnol 2y ago
> Ask Nigerians how they feel about the fact they can’t interact with most western institutions due to the actions of their worst neighbors. How about you ask Nigerians how they are besides this topic? You think everything is good in Nigeria if it wouldn't be for that scam-issue? In fact, you are displaying your own luxury believes here. It seems you think those scammers would have a normal job if they wouldn't be scamming people. Like, they have a choice. Yes, many Nigerians are scammed by other Nigerians. I am aware of that, but if "scamming" wouldn't be possible, those people would do other criminal things to their own people and the reason is that those countries have severe economic problems making it hard for normal people to have a life the way we live here in the beautiful West. Them scamming their way into the West is as a small payback on the same road as the globalized markets operate. Those scammers rip off Westerners who profit from those same roads and the rip off their Western companies practice in the scammers home countries. So yeah, I did hear that strategy already. It is an attempt at hacking my radicalized social behavior through the backdoor, while simultaneously diverting attention from those who actually hurt people in those countries: western politicians and companies. You will fail more often now with this strategy since the wave is rolling back and there are not many other strategies of diversion. They were never needed before. Times change.
- pembrook 2y ago
  Read up on how economic development works. Ask any of the Asian tiger economies that were formerly victims of colonialism how they economically developed out of poverty. Developing trusted institutions leads to outside investment. Outside investment leads to growth. Growth leads to not being poor. When nobody will invest in Nigeria because nobody actually trusts they won’t get bamboozled, this is a fundamental chicken and egg problem. Again, I would strongly suggest re-examining the luxury robinhood narrative you have in your head.