4 ms·

> I am not suggesting Apple has fallen behind Windows or Android. Changing a setting on Windows 11 can often involve a journey through three or four different i

> I am not suggesting Apple has fallen behind Windows or Android. Changing a setting on Windows 11 can often involve a journey through three or four different interface designs, artifacts of half-implemented changes dating back to the last century. Whenever I find myself stuck outside of Appleland, I am eager to return “home,” flaws and all. Hard agree with this. I sometimes have to boot up a windows laptop to play Minecraft with the kiddo, and it never stops reminding me how little I know about Windows now, how counter-intuitive everything is, how everything feels designed for a user whose mind I cannot comprehend.

lttlrck 2y ago
I lost Windows fluency around 7. I have little desire to get it back even though I use it every day as a secondary system. How many "control panels"? How many places are there to adjust audio device properties?
- rcarmo 2y ago
  Around four.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Also, every time you run something in Windows (whether it's part of the OS or an App) it can be a trip down memory lane, UI-wise. Oooh, this dialog is 2015 vintage! This dialog is styled like Windows 8! This one is from the XP era! Ohh, and that rarified dialog has controls that have not been changed since Windows 95!
  - hajile 2y ago
    There's still UI stuff that hasn't changed since Windows 3.1 minus the UI kit updates.
- alp1n3_eth 2y ago
  If you want a super bad audio-related journey, try fixing external speakers connected to a Linux box. It's abysmal, and 99% of it can only be done via the CLI. Nothing wrong with that... but for something so normal I expected more ease-of-use.
HypnoticOcelot 2y ago
How come you have to use Windows to play Minecraft? Are you using Bedrock edition?
- yoz 2y ago
  Hey, if we're already complaining about Microsoft products, can someone explain why the Bedrock and Java versions of Minecraft have not been made cross-compatible in the TEN YEARS since the Mojang acquisition? (... speaking as another dad just trying to play with my kid.)
  - banqjls 2y ago
    What does cross compatible mean in this context? They are two different games written in two different languages. I mean, they look like they are the same game, but they are not. Making one compatible with the other is a Herculean task. If not impossible.
    - yoz 2y ago
      I'm talking about network compatibility, so that a Bedrock client can join a Java server and vice versa. It's clearly somewhat possible because GeyserMC[1] exists. It's just ridiculous that it's a third-party addon. [1] https://geysermc.org/ https://geysermc.org/
      - pathartl 2y ago
        The games state is handled completely different between bedrock and java
  - janetmissed 2y ago
    I’d imagine mostly due to a lack of incentive on microsoft’s part. Like minecraft is literally the biggest video game to ever exist with, making 2 entirely separate code bases work while keeping all the features the same and preserving compatibility with over a decades worth of mods just so the mostly separate java and bedrock communities can play with each other is just not worth the risk. So many people play minecraft in so many different ways means that making even minor changes in gameplay can be huge sources of controversy, let alone major infrastructure changes.
epolanski 2y ago
I use both Mac and windows extensively and I'm not sure what are you referring to. You can access most settings by Windows + "yourquery".
- wpm 2y ago
  Using search as a UI is admitting the UI sucks. It is indicative of a failure, not a solution in and of itself.
  - p_ing 2y ago
    Just like System Settings in macOS! Always have to use keyword search in that thing. FWIW, search as a UI isn't a bad thing, Cmd + Space is the main way I launch apps on macOS (or Win + "type whatever").
    - ziml77 2y ago
      Search feels to me like a good compromise between memorizing terminal commands (including the correct set of parameters to do what you want) and navigating through a UI to find what you're looking for.
      - int_19h 2y ago
        Search is fine as a one-off thing, but if you repeatedly have to use search to find some common setting, that's a clear UX fail. To be fair, it's hard to say whether the Settings app is more broken in Windows or macOS these days. I think I'd have to give the crown to macOS here on account of search itself being more broken.
        whatevertrevor 2y ago
        Why is it a UI fail? Honestly search as the default way of going to settings is my favorite development in modern OS design, I no longer need to memorize 3-6 deep menu trees to find a trivial setting. For example: I prefer keeping my hands on the keyboard, and typing cmd+space followed by mouse is so much faster than finding the right pixels to click through in menu trees when I want to adjust my mouse sensitivity.
ohgr 2y ago
It's fine if you stay away from the consumer releases. Windows 11 LTSC (based on 24H2) feels like windows 7. Most of the stuff you had to futz with powertoys and GPOs back then. That hasn't changed. I quite like it. It has been utterly boring compared to my recent Apple experiences.
starik36 2y ago
I disagree with that. As an occasional user of MacOS, the new Settings app is quite bewildering. There are just as many dials as in Windows and sometimes requires a trip to ChatGPT. And for reasons I don't understand, why is the window itself not resizable?
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  To be fair, I agree with you that the recent OS X control panel changes suck shit and are awful, and get worse with every update.
- pathartl 2y ago
  I'm a Windows fan (I actually really like 11) so I'm a bit biased, but I just dove back into macOS since 2014 and the settings app is truly terrible. The built in search barely works and the layout is so damn confusing. God forbid I install some remote desktop software, now I have to go to accessibility settings 5 simes and approve some permission that is strategically buried for only what I can tell as a way to thwart "normies" from enabling something via obfuscation. It would be fine if the settings available were actually useful or at least could bring me to some tool that does it better. I get no meaningful report of what's eating my batter and why every time I open my MacBook it's dead. And if I want to change the actual resolution of my display I'm given just a list of scaling options pretending to be resolutions. Oh, want to set a specific resolution or refresh rate? You have to do some stupid kinger king foo of option control something _before_ you click on this dialog. I get the criticism about the Windows settings app and legacy power tools (I think this has largely been solved anyway), at least they exist and allow me some iota of control over my computer
- ankurdhama 2y ago
  It is resizable vertically but not horizontally as it doesn't make sense to resize the window horizontally considering the content of settings details panel (the right part of the settings window), you would end up with a lot of empty space if you were able to resize it horizontally.
  - starik36 2y ago
bongripper 2y ago
[dead]
lor_louis 2y ago
To be fair, win11 is a nightmare in terms of usability. I can only assume a committee of eldritch beings and accountants designed it. It blows my mind that when right-clicking on a file in file explorer, the 'delete' option is hidden in a sub-menu under 'more options'.
- booleandilemma 2y ago
  Are you sure about that? Look for the trashcan symbol on the upper-right of the context menu. I agree that having "more options" to begin with was a jarring experience coming from windows 10 though.
  - alt219 2y ago
    Except for when the placement of the icon strip with the trashcan symbol changes to the bottom of the context menu because of the location of the context menu on the screen. Bonkers. No idea why the UI committee would’ve okayed that one.
    - booleandilemma 2y ago
      Oh that's so weird :\
    - qingcharles 2y ago
      You're right. I just checked. That's odd.
- DecentShoes 2y ago
  It's deliberate. It's the good-bad-good-bad release cycle Microsoft insists on. Windows 12 will be decent, then 13 will be horrible again.
  - pavel_lishin 2y ago
    Ah, so it's like Star Trek movies.
- 2y ago
yard2010 2y ago
You said no word about the god damn candy crush ads. As if we don't have enough sources for cancer and other terminal illnesses
mexicocitinluez 2y ago
Every article about some issue with Apple MUST also include an anecdote about how you couldn't use Windows one time and how it's still worse than Mac. It's the rule lest someone think you made a bad decision and you're regretting it. Even though it's an OS targeted for your grandmother, you must not let them see weakness. At this point it's a joke. Either critique Apple or admit you can't without also bringing up some other OS. It's weird.

lttlrck 2y ago

I lost Windows fluency around 7. I have little desire to get it back even though I use it every day as a secondary system. How many "control panels"? How many places are there to adjust audio device properties?

rcarmo 2y ago
Around four.
ryandrake 2y ago
Also, every time you run something in Windows (whether it's part of the OS or an App) it can be a trip down memory lane, UI-wise. Oooh, this dialog is 2015 vintage! This dialog is styled like Windows 8! This one is from the XP era! Ohh, and that rarified dialog has controls that have not been changed since Windows 95!
- hajile 2y ago
  There's still UI stuff that hasn't changed since Windows 3.1 minus the UI kit updates.
alp1n3_eth 2y ago
If you want a super bad audio-related journey, try fixing external speakers connected to a Linux box. It's abysmal, and 99% of it can only be done via the CLI. Nothing wrong with that... but for something so normal I expected more ease-of-use.

HypnoticOcelot 2y ago

How come you have to use Windows to play Minecraft? Are you using Bedrock edition?

yoz 2y ago
Hey, if we're already complaining about Microsoft products, can someone explain why the Bedrock and Java versions of Minecraft have not been made cross-compatible in the TEN YEARS since the Mojang acquisition? (... speaking as another dad just trying to play with my kid.)
- banqjls 2y ago
  What does cross compatible mean in this context? They are two different games written in two different languages. I mean, they look like they are the same game, but they are not. Making one compatible with the other is a Herculean task. If not impossible.
  - yoz 2y ago
    I'm talking about network compatibility, so that a Bedrock client can join a Java server and vice versa. It's clearly somewhat possible because GeyserMC[1] exists. It's just ridiculous that it's a third-party addon. [1] https://geysermc.org/ https://geysermc.org/
    - pathartl 2y ago
      The games state is handled completely different between bedrock and java
- janetmissed 2y ago
  I’d imagine mostly due to a lack of incentive on microsoft’s part. Like minecraft is literally the biggest video game to ever exist with, making 2 entirely separate code bases work while keeping all the features the same and preserving compatibility with over a decades worth of mods just so the mostly separate java and bedrock communities can play with each other is just not worth the risk. So many people play minecraft in so many different ways means that making even minor changes in gameplay can be huge sources of controversy, let alone major infrastructure changes.

epolanski 2y ago

I use both Mac and windows extensively and I'm not sure what are you referring to. You can access most settings by Windows + "yourquery".

wpm 2y ago
Using search as a UI is admitting the UI sucks. It is indicative of a failure, not a solution in and of itself.
- p_ing 2y ago
  Just like System Settings in macOS! Always have to use keyword search in that thing. FWIW, search as a UI isn't a bad thing, Cmd + Space is the main way I launch apps on macOS (or Win + "type whatever").
  - ziml77 2y ago
    Search feels to me like a good compromise between memorizing terminal commands (including the correct set of parameters to do what you want) and navigating through a UI to find what you're looking for.
    - int_19h 2y ago
      Search is fine as a one-off thing, but if you repeatedly have to use search to find some common setting, that's a clear UX fail. To be fair, it's hard to say whether the Settings app is more broken in Windows or macOS these days. I think I'd have to give the crown to macOS here on account of search itself being more broken.
      - whatevertrevor 2y ago
        Why is it a UI fail? Honestly search as the default way of going to settings is my favorite development in modern OS design, I no longer need to memorize 3-6 deep menu trees to find a trivial setting. For example: I prefer keeping my hands on the keyboard, and typing cmd+space followed by mouse is so much faster than finding the right pixels to click through in menu trees when I want to adjust my mouse sensitivity.

ohgr 2y ago

It's fine if you stay away from the consumer releases. Windows 11 LTSC (based on 24H2) feels like windows 7. Most of the stuff you had to futz with powertoys and GPOs back then. That hasn't changed. I quite like it. It has been utterly boring compared to my recent Apple experiences.

starik36 2y ago

I disagree with that. As an occasional user of MacOS, the new Settings app is quite bewildering. There are just as many dials as in Windows and sometimes requires a trip to ChatGPT. And for reasons I don't understand, why is the window itself not resizable?

pavel_lishin 2y ago
To be fair, I agree with you that the recent OS X control panel changes suck shit and are awful, and get worse with every update.
pathartl 2y ago
I'm a Windows fan (I actually really like 11) so I'm a bit biased, but I just dove back into macOS since 2014 and the settings app is truly terrible. The built in search barely works and the layout is so damn confusing. God forbid I install some remote desktop software, now I have to go to accessibility settings 5 simes and approve some permission that is strategically buried for only what I can tell as a way to thwart "normies" from enabling something via obfuscation. It would be fine if the settings available were actually useful or at least could bring me to some tool that does it better. I get no meaningful report of what's eating my batter and why every time I open my MacBook it's dead. And if I want to change the actual resolution of my display I'm given just a list of scaling options pretending to be resolutions. Oh, want to set a specific resolution or refresh rate? You have to do some stupid kinger king foo of option control something _before_ you click on this dialog. I get the criticism about the Windows settings app and legacy power tools (I think this has largely been solved anyway), at least they exist and allow me some iota of control over my computer
ankurdhama 2y ago
It is resizable vertically but not horizontally as it doesn't make sense to resize the window horizontally considering the content of settings details panel (the right part of the settings window), you would end up with a lot of empty space if you were able to resize it horizontally.
- starik36 2y ago

bongripper 2y ago

[dead]

lor_louis 2y ago

To be fair, win11 is a nightmare in terms of usability. I can only assume a committee of eldritch beings and accountants designed it. It blows my mind that when right-clicking on a file in file explorer, the 'delete' option is hidden in a sub-menu under 'more options'.

booleandilemma 2y ago
Are you sure about that? Look for the trashcan symbol on the upper-right of the context menu. I agree that having "more options" to begin with was a jarring experience coming from windows 10 though.
- alt219 2y ago
  Except for when the placement of the icon strip with the trashcan symbol changes to the bottom of the context menu because of the location of the context menu on the screen. Bonkers. No idea why the UI committee would’ve okayed that one.
  - booleandilemma 2y ago
    Oh that's so weird :\
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    You're right. I just checked. That's odd.
DecentShoes 2y ago
It's deliberate. It's the good-bad-good-bad release cycle Microsoft insists on. Windows 12 will be decent, then 13 will be horrible again.
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  Ah, so it's like Star Trek movies.
2y ago

yard2010 2y ago

You said no word about the god damn candy crush ads. As if we don't have enough sources for cancer and other terminal illnesses

mexicocitinluez 2y ago

Every article about some issue with Apple MUST also include an anecdote about how you couldn't use Windows one time and how it's still worse than Mac. It's the rule lest someone think you made a bad decision and you're regretting it. Even though it's an OS targeted for your grandmother, you must not let them see weakness. At this point it's a joke. Either critique Apple or admit you can't without also bringing up some other OS. It's weird.