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"Energy is too cheap" is only a problem when the people who own whatever equipment is generating energy are interested in a direct return on their investment.

"Energy is too cheap" is only a problem when the people who own whatever equipment is generating energy are interested in a direct return on their investment. From the perspective of Kardashev, "Energy is too cheap" is a fantastic opportunity for a civilization. While yes, too much surplus capacity would eventually indicate overinvestment, for now it seems like great news for the compute and software industry in China. If you reliably have times when energy is better-than-free, that's the ideal time to scale up and generate embeddings from your stored data, or train LLMs, or do all sorts of other batch-able but intensive tasks.

senectus1 2y ago
energy CANT be too cheap. just convert it to something and transport it where its not cheap.
- woleium 2y ago
  like hydrogen or bitcoin, or at a larger scale aluminum
- Guthur 2y ago
  Exactly this is the most incoherent article. There is no transition, only growth. More energy always up up.
  - redserk 2y ago
    The article reads like a lot of finance articles from western outlets about China. It continues the multi-decade angle that — regardless of China’s successes — somehow they’re set for a full and total societal collapse any minute now. So of course cheap energy is bad if you want to prop up a whole set of multinationals that rely on rent-seeking behavior. It puts those companies’ long-term growth at risk.
    - orwin 2y ago
      I do not think advanced societies, even semi-authoritarian ones, can collapse overnight, but having spent a few month in China countryside (which is beautiful btw, hard treks but interesting ones), they do have a lot of challenge they probably are not totally ready for. The lack of education and available role models for countryside children and the blatant corruption there (not in cities, cities seems way more policed, i'm really speaking about the countryside) can maybe be put aside, but i'm really not confident. I thought rural areas were treated as second-class in my country, and since i've gone to West Virginia i was "that's _really_ second class: we are good, comparatively", but China countryside is worse than that. Yes, that might be surprising to left-leaning US citizen who are aware of the recent floodings in WV and the lack of national help: the abandonment of rural area seems somehow worse in China.
      - antifa 2y ago
        > Yes, that might be surprising to left-leaning US citizen who are aware of the recent floodings in WV and the lack of national help: the abandonment of rural area seems somehow worse in China. I can't say for sure how things are is particularly favorable for a specific side, many will be quick to judge with intent to merely confirm their pre-existing conclusions, but the real question for me is: what are these places going to look like in 50 years? Is the US going to sober up and become a first world country again? Is China's modernization going to continue and reach the country sides (e.g. not a bubble)? My best hopes is that peaceful prosperity arrives at both places.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- more_corn 2y ago
  Don’t “just” me bro
seanmcdirmid 2y ago
The problem is that you have solar in China where you don’t have so many people, industry, or water. So ya, Qinghai has a lot of solar, but using that surplus energy for data centers and such may still not be easy (air cooling maybe could work). You could try to build out your grid to send the energy east, but that has been slow going so far (compared to everything else China builds, it’s UHV lines east aren’t that many). Oh, you also need fiber capacity, etc… I wonder how long until we actually see air cooled AI data centers in the middle of nowhere just because they have cheap power? China could invest in dry cooling tower technology next.

senectus1 2y ago

energy CANT be too cheap. just convert it to something and transport it where its not cheap.

woleium 2y ago
like hydrogen or bitcoin, or at a larger scale aluminum
Guthur 2y ago
Exactly this is the most incoherent article. There is no transition, only growth. More energy always up up.
- redserk 2y ago
  The article reads like a lot of finance articles from western outlets about China. It continues the multi-decade angle that — regardless of China’s successes — somehow they’re set for a full and total societal collapse any minute now. So of course cheap energy is bad if you want to prop up a whole set of multinationals that rely on rent-seeking behavior. It puts those companies’ long-term growth at risk.
  - orwin 2y ago
    I do not think advanced societies, even semi-authoritarian ones, can collapse overnight, but having spent a few month in China countryside (which is beautiful btw, hard treks but interesting ones), they do have a lot of challenge they probably are not totally ready for. The lack of education and available role models for countryside children and the blatant corruption there (not in cities, cities seems way more policed, i'm really speaking about the countryside) can maybe be put aside, but i'm really not confident. I thought rural areas were treated as second-class in my country, and since i've gone to West Virginia i was "that's _really_ second class: we are good, comparatively", but China countryside is worse than that. Yes, that might be surprising to left-leaning US citizen who are aware of the recent floodings in WV and the lack of national help: the abandonment of rural area seems somehow worse in China.
    - antifa 2y ago
      > Yes, that might be surprising to left-leaning US citizen who are aware of the recent floodings in WV and the lack of national help: the abandonment of rural area seems somehow worse in China. I can't say for sure how things are is particularly favorable for a specific side, many will be quick to judge with intent to merely confirm their pre-existing conclusions, but the real question for me is: what are these places going to look like in 50 years? Is the US going to sober up and become a first world country again? Is China's modernization going to continue and reach the country sides (e.g. not a bubble)? My best hopes is that peaceful prosperity arrives at both places.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
more_corn 2y ago
Don’t “just” me bro

seanmcdirmid 2y ago

The problem is that you have solar in China where you don’t have so many people, industry, or water. So ya, Qinghai has a lot of solar, but using that surplus energy for data centers and such may still not be easy (air cooling maybe could work). You could try to build out your grid to send the energy east, but that has been slow going so far (compared to everything else China builds, it’s UHV lines east aren’t that many). Oh, you also need fiber capacity, etc… I wonder how long until we actually see air cooled AI data centers in the middle of nowhere just because they have cheap power? China could invest in dry cooling tower technology next.