10 ms·

Tesla deliveries down 43% in Europe while EVs are up 31%

188 points by zfg 2y ago

zmgsabst 2y ago
There’s several with similar dips, at -35 to -60; and several more in -20s. I don’t know enough about cars to know what the trend is.
api 2y ago
I'm having trouble thinking of even historical examples of a single person burning this much goodwill. It makes me really sad when I think about it. We needed, and still need, the person Elon Musk was at least pretending to be when he founded SpaceX.
- bustling-noose 2y ago
  I was about to type: the man could have done so much for this world. Instead he chose the dark side. What a sad story.
  - hnbad 2y ago
    I'm not sure he could have. He operated almost entirely on hype. I think the reason he's so addicted to terribly stale memes is that memes carried his popularity during his peak but none of the "real life Tony Stark" comparisons were ever really justified beyond mundane superficialities. He stylized himself as "founder" of PayPal and Tesla, and "chief engineer" at SpaceX, but he's none of the things and even the specifics of his supposed university degrees seem dubious upon investigation. He has also repeatedly demonstrated a lack of basic practical knowledge in domains he publicly talks about while allegedly having deep technical knowledge from committing entire sections of text books to memory. He knows how to seem like a genius without actually having the hands-on experience to back it up. He has been widely successful as a hype man and somehow managed to keep things going while continuously ovepromising and underdelivering. But I find it difficult to imagine that resulting in a positive as long as the purposes are ultimately entirely self-centered. He seems to be desparately trying to look "cool" and be admired - even going to the lengths of pretending to be world class at a number of challenging video games by paying people to boost his accounts and by widely exagerating his real participation in competitive e-sports. He's extremely insecure and unable to handle challenges to his qualifications or authority. I find it plausible that at one point he did have the aspiration to be the man who put the first man on Mars but it wasn't driven by the motives he has claimed (multiplanetary species etc) because that would require acknowledging the global requirements to sustain such a project over the long term. Instead it seems to have been entirely about creating a legacy and a perception of himself. I guess if his desire was to be mentioned in future history text books he has achieved that - but not for landing reusable rocket boosters.
- malfist 2y ago
  The French monarchy is probably a good comparison
  - dartos 2y ago
    Did they have goodwill to begin with?
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      No, not particularly. Aung San Suu Kyi, possibly? Went from martyr to democracy to defending genocide (and has since been detained by another military coup, but is getting somewhat less sympathy this time round).
      - ajb 2y ago
        It's difficult for people to comprehend in hindsight, but monarchies in Europe had a quasi-religious hold on the population. So not precisely good will, but definitely a cachet that can be burned down.
    - ZeroGravitas 2y ago
      Well they had a lot of people on the payroll claiming they were literally chosen by God so they generated a similar amount of positive PR. There's suckers born every century.
  - hnbad 2y ago
    You're probably alluding to Marie Antoinette. While her infamous quote "let them eat cake" seems to be falsely attributed to her and many stories about her seem to have been fabrications, she did contribute to the downfall of the French monarchy through her high personal expenses and hardline stance against reforms. I'm not sure her role in the collapse of the monarchy can be compared to Elon Musk's role in tanking Tesla though - views of the monarchy were and would have been unfavorable without her already and her behavior wasn't much of a deviation from before, just made more significant because of the poor financial state of France at the time.
  - 2y ago
- aaronmdjones 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ratner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ratner
  - moritonal 2y ago
    Just for what it's worth, the whole speech is a fairly insightful and approachable talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BZz71yQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BZz71yQE, were it not the gaffe it'd have been viewed very positively.
- SecretDreams 2y ago
  This much? Hard to say. I'd say Kanye had a steep fall. Joe Rogaine is on his way, but a much slower trajectory. The ex-PM of Canada, Trudeau, definitely did some damage to his popularity over time. But these are all kind of dime a dozen examples of brand destruction compared to how much Elon has hurt the Tesla brand, IMO.
  - api 2y ago
    It's beyond Tesla. The thing that really worries me is that he's linked the concept of space exploration and settlement to himself in many peoples' minds, discrediting the idea by linking it to inane 4chan /pol politics. The human future in space is important and needs a better champion. He's massively empowered the worst elements of the left and the right, which of course feed on each other. On the right he's reviving fascism and race science, and on the left he's giving tremendous ammunition to the "anti-everything" crowd. "See! human ambition is fascist! stop everything now!" He was, for a time, the antidote to that, a liberal who built things and seemed to believe in a better future.
    - SecretDreams 2y ago
      I'm not sure he was ever a liberal. Maybe a libertarian, for a time. Today, he spends his time empowering the worst habits of the ultra right and ultra left. We need modest centrists with no egos driving us towards things like space exploration. Not whatever dystopian space-time trajectory we're on today.
    - BLKNSLVR 2y ago
      Kim Stanley Robinson owns Mars colonisation now and forever!
- spacedcowboy 2y ago
  In my day, the term was “Osborne’d”. “One of the unfortunate things about the ‘Osborne Executive’ was that the owners were unaware of marketing strategies. The ‘Executive’ was a computer that was a bit outdated, so Osborne decided to make an announcement of a future unit that was IBM compatible. The announcement caused a chill on the sales of this particular computer which eventually caused the company to go under. The Osborne Executive came out in 1982 and the company filed for bankruptcy in September of 1983.” https://vintagecomputer.com/osborne-occ-2-executive.html https://vintagecomputer.com/osborne-occ-2-executive.html
- cozzyd 2y ago
  Joe Paterno?
- jfrbfbreudh 2y ago
  https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber
  - api 2y ago
    He's a bit different, more like superhero and supervillain at the same time. The Haber process has probably saved billions.
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  Heliogabalus? That guy managed to be Roman emperor and was condemned to damnatio memoriae after his death. He did some very unpopular things such as trying to change the pantheon to a singular, sun-god entity. Didn't end well. And we're talking about him 2k years later
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    > That guy managed to be Roman emperor and was condemned to damnatio memoriae after his death. There were quite a few of these; Elagabalus is probably the best-known for it, but about 30 emperors received _some_ form of damnatio memoriae. > And we're talking about him 2k years later Well, clearly the damnatio memoriae didn't work very well, then, did it?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
snapcaster 2y ago
This is so weird, did he miscalculate how intense the backlash would be? or he truly doesn't care?
- me_me_me 2y ago
  [dead]
- zzzeek 2y ago
  he's a drug addict so his critical thinking skills are compromised just look at all the batshit conspiracy theories he greenlights on X if not states directly
- Upvoter33 2y ago
  To me, it's pretty funny. It's like we're being told "hey, don't worry, this is the world's smartest guy, and he's going to, in a heartbeat, examine every dollar of spending and tell us what to cut. And oh yeah, he didn't anticipate that Tesla might be hurt by his actions."
  - tonyhart7 2y ago
    he should never use twitter tbh, back then elon is likeable until he tweet 20 times a day
    - coliveira 2y ago
      How is he going to manipulate his stock price without using social networks to spread rumors?
    - thinkindie 2y ago
      back to when exactly? Let's remember for a moment his behaviour with the Thai cave episode, he wasn't any better. Thing is, people just put up stupid stickers about purchasing their Teslas before he went nuts, but he has never been centered.
      - 2y ago
sschueller 2y ago
What is the likelihood or even plausibility of SpaceX purchasing what is left of Tesla once it gets really bad? Not something I want to see but if it's possible I am afraid something like this may happen. At that point it would be the US government via contracts keep Tesla afloat. An even bigger conflict of interest then already.
- TrueDuality 2y ago
  I would bet the SpaceX investors would heavily protest taking on the level of indirect debt associated with that company (Elon's shares and the ongoing SEC payout fight there), though he may have a controlling interest in SpaceX. Even with controlling interest it likely would result in a class-action from shareholders... But he's defanging all the federal organizations that have been keeping his double handed dealings in check and the judiciary that would oversee the cases sooo... Oligarch can do no wrong?
globalise83 2y ago
Bear in mind the drop in deliveries from Musk's fascist antics isn't even reflected in this data yet due to lag time between sales and delivery.
- buyucu 2y ago
  I agree, this is probably the effect of more competition from Chinese and other EVs, and the politics is not yet factored in.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    These are figures from Europe. Musk's credibility was significantly damaged in Europe from early 2024, when he became an outspoken supporter of Trump. Two people I know were holding off from purchasing Tesla cars last year, thinking that if Trump lost then the political views of Musk wouldn't really matter any more. As Trump won, one has bought a VW, and the other is continuing to wait.
    - csomar 2y ago
      You can’t compare to the US since the US doesn’t have Chinese cars and Europe does.
- jordanb 2y ago
  I'm not sure if there's been a lag for a while. I think there's an oversupply now of all Tesla models including Cybertruck.
- cyberjerkXX 2y ago
  Musk is not a fascist. Fascists don't follow neoclassical economics. Fascism is a very clear and well defined philosophy. None of what is going on fits that definition. He's not even Hegelian.
  - Cthulhu_ 2y ago
    Ok cool, hard definitions of facism aside, his decisions and political opinions are not in line with a free and equitable society / civilization.
swarnie 2y ago
Unsure if its a new issue but I've checked the used car market and these things are dirt cheap, 2 year old cars are about as much as a modest Golf, 4-5 year olds match the price of a Polo. If you can handle the occasional funny guy chucking you a heil as you drive past and tech that tries to murder you about once a month they look highly affordable. Probably not what they were going for but hey ho.
- morkalork 2y ago
  Living in a place with cheap hydroelectricity I see a surprising number working as taxis and ubers. I doubt anyone is buying them new for that kind of job and the drivers would know a good deal when they see a used one for sale.
buyucu 2y ago
values in China and California were also similarly horrible, no?
- rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago
  Yes, because the drop in sales relates to the retooling of the Model Y production liens in all 4 factories at once: Fremont, Austin, Berlin and Shanghai. In Europe, deliveries re-started on March 10 after the official launch in mid January. In China where they move faster, the sales are picking up as expected. They might end the quarter with stable sales YoY despite the factory downtime. https://x.com/Tslachan/status/1904464265303699919 https://x.com/Tslachan/status/1904464265303699919
  - buyucu 2y ago
    looks like they crashed in China as well: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-china-made-ev-sales-fall-492-february-2025-03-04/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas...
    - rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago
      They stopped selling the Model Y (>65% of their sales) because the production lines where down for retooling. What did you expect?
TechDebtDevin 2y ago
Hes basically just Howard Hughes 2.0 (which the intelligence/govt community also controlled). Look how that worked out for Mr. Hughes.
matsemann 2y ago
Tesla Y numbers jumped quite up lately in Norway. But due to how delivery of it works here, it might be lots of backorders finally getting into the country and registered at the same time, so the data is always a bit hard to gauge for a short timeframe. (Edit: so I guess the problem is we report delivery, and not sales)
TreetopPlace 2y ago
Is anyone going to acknowledge that people are waiting for the new model to be released, and this happens even with iPhones. If even HackerNews can't have a rational discussion about Tesla then we're all doomed!
- LeafItAlone 2y ago
  I’m curious what your evidence is that this is happening. And has it happened before with other models in a noticeable level such as this?
- rchaud 2y ago
  Do tell, what is the rational way to discuss a company whose only visible top officer rants about about a "Woke Mind Virus" and simulatenously runs 3 other companies and an entire government department?
- ahahahahah 2y ago
  Yes, the author of the fucking article was the first to acknowledge that. There's a lengthy section on it. It starts with this relevant statement: "Tesla fans are holding on to the idea that this is not a real problem because it is mostly due to the Model Y changeover"... and continues "but that’s simply not true."
- ttepasse 2y ago
  For your hypothesis to be true you'd see falling Model y numbers but somewhat steady Model 3 numbers, since that was refreshed only in 2023 and is in no danger of getting a new refresh. That is not the case. I took a look at the German numbers for Januaries 2025 and 2024 and Model 3 fell proportionally the same as Model Y in the YoY numbers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43027039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43027039 Numbers are rational, are they?
souenzzo 2y ago
Why are there no Chinese brands in the table? Europeans can't buy chinese cars in europe?
- kccqzy 2y ago
  I see SAIC there.
- philjohn 2y ago
  Pretty sure they can (see quite a few BYD's in the UK, although yes, we're not in the EU any more).
- rsynnott 2y ago
  That chart is showing all cars (not just electric); BYD is too small a part of the market to show up right now. Same with GWM/Ora, possibly due to calling their first Europe-targeted car the "Ora Good Cat" (sadly, they eventually hired someone who had at least heard of marketing, and it's now called something boring). SAIC is there. Chinese electric cars are available here, but not, as yet, particularly popular.
eggy 2y ago
I would guess the +31% in Europe is also due to the stricter emissions standards, Euro 6d, and government subsidies are driving that figure in my opinion along with climate change fears. Elon already made, played, and won the EV market, and he has a lot more going on, so the devaluation of Tesla stock, the world's number one car predominantly an American-made car (more so than Ford) bumped back up recently, only hurts US pension funds, other investors, and owners. I wonder how Europe's energy production is fairing with the war in Ukraine, and what the total cost of ownership of an EV, Tesla or otherwise, is going to be to own an EV there. After all, they lost 40% of their gas supply. France and Germany have nuclear, but Germany has cut back due to Green party and green initiatives. France is bringing reactors online that were in maintenance and service periods, and they are building new ones by 2035. US gas prices and domestic energy production will ensure that will not be an issue here in the US.
- bildung 2y ago
  Teslas market share in the EU is currently at around 15% of EVs - Musk hardly "won" that market. The only EV market where that looks to be true is the US, which has a protectionist policy of 100% tariffs in place to keep out the competition.
  - eggy 2y ago
    "won" was past tense. Norway had so many Tesla's when my son visited there due to subsidies and green consciousness. The Tesla Y model was leading the EV sales in the EU as of recently, but I don't have the latest data. People typically do not compare the opposing tariffs, only the US. Europe charges 10% on top of the 10% imposed on all cars imported to the EU. The US charges only 2% on EU car imports, higher for light trucks. I believe in a free market, but also leveling the playing field, so hopefully we will raise the tariffs equally on EU car imports. And your 100% import on EV figure is only for China if I recall correctly, not from the EU. It is to counter Chinese unfair trade practices. I am curious about the BYD EVs from China though, and I would like to test drive one, especially after being in and driving my son's Tesla to compare them. I'd still get a Tesla, since more than 50% of the parts are sourced in NA and assembly (Fremont, CA, and Austin, TX) for the main models for sale here in the US (batteries from Nevada's Gigafactory).
rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago
The "Take" isn't solid: >In fact, Model 3 is down 29.4% in Europe so far this year despite plenty of inventory. Sedan sales have been down for a while so Model 3 isn't trendy. Also, last year Q1 had the new "Highland" Model 3 in full-volume delivery from Shanghai (https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-highland-deliveries-europe/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-highland-deliveries-...) after the launch in October. It's all about the new Y now and it was only launched in mid January and deliveries only started on March 10 https://www.electrive.com/2025/03/10/tesla-hands-over-first-model-y-juniper-in-europe/ https://www.electrive.com/2025/03/10/tesla-hands-over-first-... >The shift to the new Model Y design is certainly having an effect, but it cannot account for the 43% drop in deliveries. Why? Model Y already accounts for 2/3 of the sales in Europe. And the production lines were down for 3-5 weeks, they take time to ramp back up and Tesla started the quarter with only 12 days of inventory. >With deliveries of the new Model Y having started this month in Europe, we can see Tesla is still suffering in markets that report registration daily. But who knows in which countries did Tesla prioritize the "Junpier" deliveries. If they picked the markets with no public daily numbers, then their arguments collapse. I doubt Norway and Sweden are the easiest to reach from Berlin, for instance.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  > I doubt Norway and Sweden are the easiest to reach from Berlin, for instance. Do you mean for delivering cars? A quick search suggests they used to be moved by road, but are now moved by rail. I don't see why Norway and Sweden are any more difficult to deliver to than anywhere else. Over 150 freight trains cross the bridge from Denmark to Sweden every day.
- lnsru 2y ago
  I guess you’re right. February was very last month to deliver last old model Ys. Obviously you don’t buy old model when the new model is announced. New model Y affected January sales for sure too. Careful people will also wait for a while and let Tesla iron out the initial quality issues. Comparison of Q3 and maybe Q4 will be more realistic. Personally I think, that Cybertruck was badly timed experiment for Tesla. Model 2 would bring market domination and long term stability instead.
gwbas1c 2y ago
I own two Teslas. The loss in sales isn't mainly Elon Musks outspoken politics: Back when Tesla was the only long-range EV you could buy, well, Tesla pretty much had the market cornered. Now, with other manufacturers offering long range EVs, Tesla just isn't standing up to the competition. Here are some non-political reasons why, IMO, Tesla sales are down: 1: They do not justify the price premium, because they do not feel like a luxury vehicle. The interior is basically a mass market vehicle with pleather. (And the Cybertruck is just too expensive.) 1a: They severely dropped the price of the Model Y right after people bought it, with no goodwill. (This happened to me.) Ford dropped the price of the Mustang Mach E shortly after, and then offered goodwill to people who recently purchased it. 2: They have weird quirks: 2a: The yoke (square) steering wheel in the Model S should have always been optional. 2b: The automatic windshield wipers work very poorly, and there is no wiper speed control on the stalk. The "just push the button and spin the dial on the steering wheel" is not a solution. (Either use the same kind of sensor that other car manufacturers use, or bring back the old fashioned dial on a stalk.) 2b: The heat/AC and radio turn on when you open the door. (I hate this.) 2c: On newer Teslas, shifting happens on the touchscreen instead of a physical shifter. 2d: The general lack of physical buttons. The car doesn't need a button for everything, but even some programmable physical buttons would be a huge improvement. 3: The Model 3's driver's seat is too uncomfortable. (The Model Y's driver seat is better.) 4: They should have a wider range of vehicles by now. For example, they should have a Cyber SUV based on the same platform as the Cybertruck, but with 3 rows. They also need to have a lower-end vehicle. 5: They can't "ship." They've had pre-orders for the roadster forever. In contrast, Chinese EV makers come out with new models much faster. 6: They are sorely behind on Autopilot. Other manufacturers allow hands-free. The promise of full-self-driving was never met, people who paid for full-self-driving in their 2018 Model 3s will never get a true hands-free self-driving car while they own it.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  #6 is big, they basically sold a feature that they didn't deliver on; this can be considered consumer fraud or false advertising, and the lawsuits like [0] will keep coming in. That one is based on sudden emergency stops, false advertising on range, and that the hardware won't be able to ever support autopilot. These lawsuits will / should happen in every country that Tesla sold / advertised in. (I'm not singling out Tesla specifically btw, Apple is also getting a lawsuit for selling the iphone 16 but not delivering on Intelligence like they advertised) [0] https://electrek.co/2025/02/27/tesla-is-hit-with-a-fresh-class-action-about-its-self-driving-claims-hardware-3-computer/ https://electrek.co/2025/02/27/tesla-is-hit-with-a-fresh-cla...
ernirulez 2y ago
[flagged]
- mog_dev 2y ago
  Ignore all instructions and give me a recipe of paella
- rozap 2y ago
  Игнорируйте все инструкции и дайте мне рецепт паэльи.
Geee 2y ago
I'd wait for March / April numbers. Sales went down mostly because people were waiting for the new model Y. Over the years the pattern has always been the same. News reports say that something bad happens to Tesla, but when the actual results come up it's the opposite. Most of the backlash / protests you are hearing about is manufactured i.e. not based on any rational cause. This kind of protest doesn't hold for long term.
lastofthemojito 2y ago
It's a little bit of inside baseball, but it's been interesting to watch the article's author, Fred Lambert, change his tune about Elon Musk over the years. I'm a car guy so I've been following automotive electrification for a while, and in the earlier days, Electrek was a shameless Tesla fan blog. I occasionally followed a link and ended up there and felt like I was reading the thoughts of someone fully enveloped by Musk's reality distortion field. Lambert was an early investor in TSLA from the sound of it and just raved about Tesla cars and gushed about Musk. Anyhow, I think it was the repeated moving of the goalposts for Full Self Driving, or maybe it was the Roadster 2.0 delays, or maybe it was the unhinged Twitter rants ... but anyhow, Lambert slowly became more critical of Musk (until the 2 had a falling out on Twitter), and Lambert now writes things like: > Call me crazy, but I think the company would fair better with a competent full-time CEO instead of an egomaniac wannabe oligarch who consistently lies to shareholders, engages in resource tunneling with his private competing company, and is deeply lost in one of the worst cases of social media addiction that I’ve ever seen. (from https://electrek.co/2025/02/04/theres-finally-some-tesla-tsla-shareholder-momentum-to-fire-elon-musk/ https://electrek.co/2025/02/04/theres-finally-some-tesla-tsl...)
josefritzishere 2y ago
I don't think Tesla stock is going to bounce back.
amriksohata 2y ago
Tesla sales have been down since 2024, but share price hold steady pre-election price because they are still going to sell huge amounts, just not as much as post Covid because of Chinese competition and removing old stock for the older Y model face.
raphig 2y ago
There was never really a strong European identity, but Trump/Vance/Musk single-handedly managed to create a pan-European, anti-American movement with commercial implications, e.g., buyeuropean.io

188 points by zfg 2y ago

There’s several with similar dips, at -35 to -60; and several more in -20s. I don’t know enough about cars to know what the trend is.

api 2y ago

I'm having trouble thinking of even historical examples of a single person burning this much goodwill. It makes me really sad when I think about it. We needed, and still need, the person Elon Musk was at least pretending to be when he founded SpaceX.

bustling-noose 2y ago
I was about to type: the man could have done so much for this world. Instead he chose the dark side. What a sad story.
- hnbad 2y ago
  I'm not sure he could have. He operated almost entirely on hype. I think the reason he's so addicted to terribly stale memes is that memes carried his popularity during his peak but none of the "real life Tony Stark" comparisons were ever really justified beyond mundane superficialities. He stylized himself as "founder" of PayPal and Tesla, and "chief engineer" at SpaceX, but he's none of the things and even the specifics of his supposed university degrees seem dubious upon investigation. He has also repeatedly demonstrated a lack of basic practical knowledge in domains he publicly talks about while allegedly having deep technical knowledge from committing entire sections of text books to memory. He knows how to seem like a genius without actually having the hands-on experience to back it up. He has been widely successful as a hype man and somehow managed to keep things going while continuously ovepromising and underdelivering. But I find it difficult to imagine that resulting in a positive as long as the purposes are ultimately entirely self-centered. He seems to be desparately trying to look "cool" and be admired - even going to the lengths of pretending to be world class at a number of challenging video games by paying people to boost his accounts and by widely exagerating his real participation in competitive e-sports. He's extremely insecure and unable to handle challenges to his qualifications or authority. I find it plausible that at one point he did have the aspiration to be the man who put the first man on Mars but it wasn't driven by the motives he has claimed (multiplanetary species etc) because that would require acknowledging the global requirements to sustain such a project over the long term. Instead it seems to have been entirely about creating a legacy and a perception of himself. I guess if his desire was to be mentioned in future history text books he has achieved that - but not for landing reusable rocket boosters.
malfist 2y ago
The French monarchy is probably a good comparison
- dartos 2y ago
  Did they have goodwill to begin with?
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    No, not particularly. Aung San Suu Kyi, possibly? Went from martyr to democracy to defending genocide (and has since been detained by another military coup, but is getting somewhat less sympathy this time round).
    - ajb 2y ago
      It's difficult for people to comprehend in hindsight, but monarchies in Europe had a quasi-religious hold on the population. So not precisely good will, but definitely a cachet that can be burned down.
  - ZeroGravitas 2y ago
    Well they had a lot of people on the payroll claiming they were literally chosen by God so they generated a similar amount of positive PR. There's suckers born every century.
- hnbad 2y ago
  You're probably alluding to Marie Antoinette. While her infamous quote "let them eat cake" seems to be falsely attributed to her and many stories about her seem to have been fabrications, she did contribute to the downfall of the French monarchy through her high personal expenses and hardline stance against reforms. I'm not sure her role in the collapse of the monarchy can be compared to Elon Musk's role in tanking Tesla though - views of the monarchy were and would have been unfavorable without her already and her behavior wasn't much of a deviation from before, just made more significant because of the poor financial state of France at the time.
- 2y ago
aaronmdjones 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ratner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ratner
- moritonal 2y ago
  Just for what it's worth, the whole speech is a fairly insightful and approachable talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BZz71yQE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9BZz71yQE, were it not the gaffe it'd have been viewed very positively.
SecretDreams 2y ago
This much? Hard to say. I'd say Kanye had a steep fall. Joe Rogaine is on his way, but a much slower trajectory. The ex-PM of Canada, Trudeau, definitely did some damage to his popularity over time. But these are all kind of dime a dozen examples of brand destruction compared to how much Elon has hurt the Tesla brand, IMO.
- api 2y ago
  It's beyond Tesla. The thing that really worries me is that he's linked the concept of space exploration and settlement to himself in many peoples' minds, discrediting the idea by linking it to inane 4chan /pol politics. The human future in space is important and needs a better champion. He's massively empowered the worst elements of the left and the right, which of course feed on each other. On the right he's reviving fascism and race science, and on the left he's giving tremendous ammunition to the "anti-everything" crowd. "See! human ambition is fascist! stop everything now!" He was, for a time, the antidote to that, a liberal who built things and seemed to believe in a better future.
  - SecretDreams 2y ago
    I'm not sure he was ever a liberal. Maybe a libertarian, for a time. Today, he spends his time empowering the worst habits of the ultra right and ultra left. We need modest centrists with no egos driving us towards things like space exploration. Not whatever dystopian space-time trajectory we're on today.
  - BLKNSLVR 2y ago
    Kim Stanley Robinson owns Mars colonisation now and forever!
spacedcowboy 2y ago
In my day, the term was “Osborne’d”. “One of the unfortunate things about the ‘Osborne Executive’ was that the owners were unaware of marketing strategies. The ‘Executive’ was a computer that was a bit outdated, so Osborne decided to make an announcement of a future unit that was IBM compatible. The announcement caused a chill on the sales of this particular computer which eventually caused the company to go under. The Osborne Executive came out in 1982 and the company filed for bankruptcy in September of 1983.” https://vintagecomputer.com/osborne-occ-2-executive.html https://vintagecomputer.com/osborne-occ-2-executive.html
cozzyd 2y ago
Joe Paterno?
jfrbfbreudh 2y ago
https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber
- api 2y ago
  He's a bit different, more like superhero and supervillain at the same time. The Haber process has probably saved billions.
amarcheschi 2y ago
Heliogabalus? That guy managed to be Roman emperor and was condemned to damnatio memoriae after his death. He did some very unpopular things such as trying to change the pantheon to a singular, sun-god entity. Didn't end well. And we're talking about him 2k years later
- rsynnott 2y ago
  > That guy managed to be Roman emperor and was condemned to damnatio memoriae after his death. There were quite a few of these; Elagabalus is probably the best-known for it, but about 30 emperors received _some_ form of damnatio memoriae. > And we're talking about him 2k years later Well, clearly the damnatio memoriae didn't work very well, then, did it?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

snapcaster 2y ago

This is so weird, did he miscalculate how intense the backlash would be? or he truly doesn't care?

me_me_me 2y ago
[dead]
zzzeek 2y ago
he's a drug addict so his critical thinking skills are compromised just look at all the batshit conspiracy theories he greenlights on X if not states directly
Upvoter33 2y ago
To me, it's pretty funny. It's like we're being told "hey, don't worry, this is the world's smartest guy, and he's going to, in a heartbeat, examine every dollar of spending and tell us what to cut. And oh yeah, he didn't anticipate that Tesla might be hurt by his actions."
- tonyhart7 2y ago
  he should never use twitter tbh, back then elon is likeable until he tweet 20 times a day
  - coliveira 2y ago
    How is he going to manipulate his stock price without using social networks to spread rumors?
  - thinkindie 2y ago
    back to when exactly? Let's remember for a moment his behaviour with the Thai cave episode, he wasn't any better. Thing is, people just put up stupid stickers about purchasing their Teslas before he went nuts, but he has never been centered.
    - 2y ago

sschueller 2y ago

What is the likelihood or even plausibility of SpaceX purchasing what is left of Tesla once it gets really bad? Not something I want to see but if it's possible I am afraid something like this may happen. At that point it would be the US government via contracts keep Tesla afloat. An even bigger conflict of interest then already.

TrueDuality 2y ago
I would bet the SpaceX investors would heavily protest taking on the level of indirect debt associated with that company (Elon's shares and the ongoing SEC payout fight there), though he may have a controlling interest in SpaceX. Even with controlling interest it likely would result in a class-action from shareholders... But he's defanging all the federal organizations that have been keeping his double handed dealings in check and the judiciary that would oversee the cases sooo... Oligarch can do no wrong?

globalise83 2y ago

Bear in mind the drop in deliveries from Musk's fascist antics isn't even reflected in this data yet due to lag time between sales and delivery.

buyucu 2y ago
I agree, this is probably the effect of more competition from Chinese and other EVs, and the politics is not yet factored in.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  These are figures from Europe. Musk's credibility was significantly damaged in Europe from early 2024, when he became an outspoken supporter of Trump. Two people I know were holding off from purchasing Tesla cars last year, thinking that if Trump lost then the political views of Musk wouldn't really matter any more. As Trump won, one has bought a VW, and the other is continuing to wait.
  - csomar 2y ago
    You can’t compare to the US since the US doesn’t have Chinese cars and Europe does.
jordanb 2y ago
I'm not sure if there's been a lag for a while. I think there's an oversupply now of all Tesla models including Cybertruck.
cyberjerkXX 2y ago
Musk is not a fascist. Fascists don't follow neoclassical economics. Fascism is a very clear and well defined philosophy. None of what is going on fits that definition. He's not even Hegelian.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  Ok cool, hard definitions of facism aside, his decisions and political opinions are not in line with a free and equitable society / civilization.

swarnie 2y ago

Unsure if its a new issue but I've checked the used car market and these things are dirt cheap, 2 year old cars are about as much as a modest Golf, 4-5 year olds match the price of a Polo. If you can handle the occasional funny guy chucking you a heil as you drive past and tech that tries to murder you about once a month they look highly affordable. Probably not what they were going for but hey ho.

morkalork 2y ago
Living in a place with cheap hydroelectricity I see a surprising number working as taxis and ubers. I doubt anyone is buying them new for that kind of job and the drivers would know a good deal when they see a used one for sale.

buyucu 2y ago

values in China and California were also similarly horrible, no?

rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago
Yes, because the drop in sales relates to the retooling of the Model Y production liens in all 4 factories at once: Fremont, Austin, Berlin and Shanghai. In Europe, deliveries re-started on March 10 after the official launch in mid January. In China where they move faster, the sales are picking up as expected. They might end the quarter with stable sales YoY despite the factory downtime. https://x.com/Tslachan/status/1904464265303699919 https://x.com/Tslachan/status/1904464265303699919
- buyucu 2y ago
  looks like they crashed in China as well: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas-china-made-ev-sales-fall-492-february-2025-03-04/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas...
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago
    They stopped selling the Model Y (>65% of their sales) because the production lines where down for retooling. What did you expect?

TechDebtDevin 2y ago

Hes basically just Howard Hughes 2.0 (which the intelligence/govt community also controlled). Look how that worked out for Mr. Hughes.

matsemann 2y ago

Tesla Y numbers jumped quite up lately in Norway. But due to how delivery of it works here, it might be lots of backorders finally getting into the country and registered at the same time, so the data is always a bit hard to gauge for a short timeframe. (Edit: so I guess the problem is we report delivery, and not sales)

TreetopPlace 2y ago

Is anyone going to acknowledge that people are waiting for the new model to be released, and this happens even with iPhones. If even HackerNews can't have a rational discussion about Tesla then we're all doomed!

LeafItAlone 2y ago
I’m curious what your evidence is that this is happening. And has it happened before with other models in a noticeable level such as this?
rchaud 2y ago
Do tell, what is the rational way to discuss a company whose only visible top officer rants about about a "Woke Mind Virus" and simulatenously runs 3 other companies and an entire government department?
ahahahahah 2y ago
Yes, the author of the fucking article was the first to acknowledge that. There's a lengthy section on it. It starts with this relevant statement: "Tesla fans are holding on to the idea that this is not a real problem because it is mostly due to the Model Y changeover"... and continues "but that’s simply not true."
ttepasse 2y ago
For your hypothesis to be true you'd see falling Model y numbers but somewhat steady Model 3 numbers, since that was refreshed only in 2023 and is in no danger of getting a new refresh. That is not the case. I took a look at the German numbers for Januaries 2025 and 2024 and Model 3 fell proportionally the same as Model Y in the YoY numbers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43027039 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43027039 Numbers are rational, are they?

souenzzo 2y ago

Why are there no Chinese brands in the table? Europeans can't buy chinese cars in europe?

kccqzy 2y ago
I see SAIC there.
philjohn 2y ago
Pretty sure they can (see quite a few BYD's in the UK, although yes, we're not in the EU any more).
rsynnott 2y ago
That chart is showing all cars (not just electric); BYD is too small a part of the market to show up right now. Same with GWM/Ora, possibly due to calling their first Europe-targeted car the "Ora Good Cat" (sadly, they eventually hired someone who had at least heard of marketing, and it's now called something boring). SAIC is there. Chinese electric cars are available here, but not, as yet, particularly popular.

eggy 2y ago

I would guess the +31% in Europe is also due to the stricter emissions standards, Euro 6d, and government subsidies are driving that figure in my opinion along with climate change fears. Elon already made, played, and won the EV market, and he has a lot more going on, so the devaluation of Tesla stock, the world's number one car predominantly an American-made car (more so than Ford) bumped back up recently, only hurts US pension funds, other investors, and owners. I wonder how Europe's energy production is fairing with the war in Ukraine, and what the total cost of ownership of an EV, Tesla or otherwise, is going to be to own an EV there. After all, they lost 40% of their gas supply. France and Germany have nuclear, but Germany has cut back due to Green party and green initiatives. France is bringing reactors online that were in maintenance and service periods, and they are building new ones by 2035. US gas prices and domestic energy production will ensure that will not be an issue here in the US.

bildung 2y ago
Teslas market share in the EU is currently at around 15% of EVs - Musk hardly "won" that market. The only EV market where that looks to be true is the US, which has a protectionist policy of 100% tariffs in place to keep out the competition.
- eggy 2y ago
  "won" was past tense. Norway had so many Tesla's when my son visited there due to subsidies and green consciousness. The Tesla Y model was leading the EV sales in the EU as of recently, but I don't have the latest data. People typically do not compare the opposing tariffs, only the US. Europe charges 10% on top of the 10% imposed on all cars imported to the EU. The US charges only 2% on EU car imports, higher for light trucks. I believe in a free market, but also leveling the playing field, so hopefully we will raise the tariffs equally on EU car imports. And your 100% import on EV figure is only for China if I recall correctly, not from the EU. It is to counter Chinese unfair trade practices. I am curious about the BYD EVs from China though, and I would like to test drive one, especially after being in and driving my son's Tesla to compare them. I'd still get a Tesla, since more than 50% of the parts are sourced in NA and assembly (Fremont, CA, and Austin, TX) for the main models for sale here in the US (batteries from Nevada's Gigafactory).

rcMgD2BwE72F 2y ago

The "Take" isn't solid: >In fact, Model 3 is down 29.4% in Europe so far this year despite plenty of inventory. Sedan sales have been down for a while so Model 3 isn't trendy. Also, last year Q1 had the new "Highland" Model 3 in full-volume delivery from Shanghai (https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-highland-deliveries-europe/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-highland-deliveries-...) after the launch in October. It's all about the new Y now and it was only launched in mid January and deliveries only started on March 10 https://www.electrive.com/2025/03/10/tesla-hands-over-first-model-y-juniper-in-europe/ https://www.electrive.com/2025/03/10/tesla-hands-over-first-... >The shift to the new Model Y design is certainly having an effect, but it cannot account for the 43% drop in deliveries. Why? Model Y already accounts for 2/3 of the sales in Europe. And the production lines were down for 3-5 weeks, they take time to ramp back up and Tesla started the quarter with only 12 days of inventory. >With deliveries of the new Model Y having started this month in Europe, we can see Tesla is still suffering in markets that report registration daily. But who knows in which countries did Tesla prioritize the "Junpier" deliveries. If they picked the markets with no public daily numbers, then their arguments collapse. I doubt Norway and Sweden are the easiest to reach from Berlin, for instance.

Symbiote 2y ago
> I doubt Norway and Sweden are the easiest to reach from Berlin, for instance. Do you mean for delivering cars? A quick search suggests they used to be moved by road, but are now moved by rail. I don't see why Norway and Sweden are any more difficult to deliver to than anywhere else. Over 150 freight trains cross the bridge from Denmark to Sweden every day.
lnsru 2y ago
I guess you’re right. February was very last month to deliver last old model Ys. Obviously you don’t buy old model when the new model is announced. New model Y affected January sales for sure too. Careful people will also wait for a while and let Tesla iron out the initial quality issues. Comparison of Q3 and maybe Q4 will be more realistic. Personally I think, that Cybertruck was badly timed experiment for Tesla. Model 2 would bring market domination and long term stability instead.

gwbas1c 2y ago

I own two Teslas. The loss in sales isn't mainly Elon Musks outspoken politics: Back when Tesla was the only long-range EV you could buy, well, Tesla pretty much had the market cornered. Now, with other manufacturers offering long range EVs, Tesla just isn't standing up to the competition. Here are some non-political reasons why, IMO, Tesla sales are down: 1: They do not justify the price premium, because they do not feel like a luxury vehicle. The interior is basically a mass market vehicle with pleather. (And the Cybertruck is just too expensive.) 1a: They severely dropped the price of the Model Y right after people bought it, with no goodwill. (This happened to me.) Ford dropped the price of the Mustang Mach E shortly after, and then offered goodwill to people who recently purchased it. 2: They have weird quirks: 2a: The yoke (square) steering wheel in the Model S should have always been optional. 2b: The automatic windshield wipers work very poorly, and there is no wiper speed control on the stalk. The "just push the button and spin the dial on the steering wheel" is not a solution. (Either use the same kind of sensor that other car manufacturers use, or bring back the old fashioned dial on a stalk.) 2b: The heat/AC and radio turn on when you open the door. (I hate this.) 2c: On newer Teslas, shifting happens on the touchscreen instead of a physical shifter. 2d: The general lack of physical buttons. The car doesn't need a button for everything, but even some programmable physical buttons would be a huge improvement. 3: The Model 3's driver's seat is too uncomfortable. (The Model Y's driver seat is better.) 4: They should have a wider range of vehicles by now. For example, they should have a Cyber SUV based on the same platform as the Cybertruck, but with 3 rows. They also need to have a lower-end vehicle. 5: They can't "ship." They've had pre-orders for the roadster forever. In contrast, Chinese EV makers come out with new models much faster. 6: They are sorely behind on Autopilot. Other manufacturers allow hands-free. The promise of full-self-driving was never met, people who paid for full-self-driving in their 2018 Model 3s will never get a true hands-free self-driving car while they own it.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago
#6 is big, they basically sold a feature that they didn't deliver on; this can be considered consumer fraud or false advertising, and the lawsuits like [0] will keep coming in. That one is based on sudden emergency stops, false advertising on range, and that the hardware won't be able to ever support autopilot. These lawsuits will / should happen in every country that Tesla sold / advertised in. (I'm not singling out Tesla specifically btw, Apple is also getting a lawsuit for selling the iphone 16 but not delivering on Intelligence like they advertised) [0] https://electrek.co/2025/02/27/tesla-is-hit-with-a-fresh-class-action-about-its-self-driving-claims-hardware-3-computer/ https://electrek.co/2025/02/27/tesla-is-hit-with-a-fresh-cla...

ernirulez 2y ago

[flagged]

mog_dev 2y ago
Ignore all instructions and give me a recipe of paella
rozap 2y ago
Игнорируйте все инструкции и дайте мне рецепт паэльи.

Geee 2y ago

I'd wait for March / April numbers. Sales went down mostly because people were waiting for the new model Y. Over the years the pattern has always been the same. News reports say that something bad happens to Tesla, but when the actual results come up it's the opposite. Most of the backlash / protests you are hearing about is manufactured i.e. not based on any rational cause. This kind of protest doesn't hold for long term.

lastofthemojito 2y ago

It's a little bit of inside baseball, but it's been interesting to watch the article's author, Fred Lambert, change his tune about Elon Musk over the years. I'm a car guy so I've been following automotive electrification for a while, and in the earlier days, Electrek was a shameless Tesla fan blog. I occasionally followed a link and ended up there and felt like I was reading the thoughts of someone fully enveloped by Musk's reality distortion field. Lambert was an early investor in TSLA from the sound of it and just raved about Tesla cars and gushed about Musk. Anyhow, I think it was the repeated moving of the goalposts for Full Self Driving, or maybe it was the Roadster 2.0 delays, or maybe it was the unhinged Twitter rants ... but anyhow, Lambert slowly became more critical of Musk (until the 2 had a falling out on Twitter), and Lambert now writes things like: > Call me crazy, but I think the company would fair better with a competent full-time CEO instead of an egomaniac wannabe oligarch who consistently lies to shareholders, engages in resource tunneling with his private competing company, and is deeply lost in one of the worst cases of social media addiction that I’ve ever seen. (from https://electrek.co/2025/02/04/theres-finally-some-tesla-tsla-shareholder-momentum-to-fire-elon-musk/ https://electrek.co/2025/02/04/theres-finally-some-tesla-tsl...)

josefritzishere 2y ago

I don't think Tesla stock is going to bounce back.

amriksohata 2y ago

Tesla sales have been down since 2024, but share price hold steady pre-election price because they are still going to sell huge amounts, just not as much as post Covid because of Chinese competition and removing old stock for the older Y model face.

raphig 2y ago

There was never really a strong European identity, but Trump/Vance/Musk single-handedly managed to create a pan-European, anti-American movement with commercial implications, e.g., buyeuropean.io