4 ms·

Are fantasy games like Dungeons and Dragons a cure for US's loneliness epidemic?

41 points by rntn 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
billy99k 2y ago
Maybe not specific to the game, but meeting regularly with like-minded people regularly. I did this 10 years ago through meetup.com when I moved to a new city. I met my wife there and many friends that I still talk to today.
jf22 2y ago
One key reason I play Warhammer 40k and other war games is that it forces me to get out there and be social. I've made a lot of new friends through the hobby that I hang out with dozens of times per year. We also have text convos going 24/7. Honestly, it makes me ridiculously happy to have friends like this.
pavel_lishin 2y ago
No, engaging in hobbies with people is. D&D - and other tabletop RPGs - just happen to be a particularly fun one that has a very low entry cost, especially as a player and not a DM. (I run a biweekly game, and play in another, as well as a few other less regularly-scheduled campaigns.) Also, a word of warning for people interested in getting in the hobby - if you watch D&D shows like Critical Role, or listen to podcasts like NADDPOD or Dungeons & Daddies, keep in mind that these people are literally professional actors, with budgets & a whole crew supporting them. Your game will still be fun, and will reflect the effort you and the other players put into it, but don't be disappointed if it's not as "cinematic" as the media you consume. (Also don't be disappointed if your first table isn't a good fit, or if the game isn't fun - it might take you a few tries to find a group you click with. Remember - no D&D is better than bad D&D. There are plenty of TTRPG horror stories, and the best way to avoid being stuck in one is by just leaving a table and finding a better one.)
VWWHFSfQ 2y ago
Is regularly getting together with friends and playing games a cure for loneliness? Is that what this is asking?
- Gormo 2y ago
  Could it, in fact, be possible that engaging in social interaction can reduce one's feelings of loneliness? Perhaps we'll need a multi-million-dollar research study to know for sure.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- aaronbaugher 2y ago
  It's funny when media types write about basic human stuff and come off like anthropologists studying another species. Tell us you live in a bubble without telling us.
dathinab 2y ago
no and yes an activity which brings people together, including such which don't yet know each other, repeatedly, often but not required to be in person, where the people have to socially engage with each other, where there is peer pressure to not just skip it all the time because it will cause issues for others that helps with loneliness that it gives a framework of expected interactions and often a context where unusual but not mean actions do not or at lest much less lead to social embarrassment helps too but here is the thing, to some degree this was/is true for a lot of traditional activities where you e.g. join club, association or similar. With the main difference being that such traditional clubs instead of being very lax/welcoming for people which are a bit socially awkward often had quite strict behavior codes. To some degree this helps people which are just not good at socializing and need some guidance to to fit in, but also often comes with all kinds of issues (like hazing rituals, or a much high chance of you not fitting in at all) anyway my point is it doesn't have to be Pen and Paper and even less DnD, it can be all kinds of "meetup with soft peer pressure to show up" situations like - a weekly board game meetup (especially for long running games like Gloomheaven) - a wow guild - some team sport clup thing (but not all, in some you just do thing alongside of others which means the extrinsic motivation to not skip it is much lower) A main issue I see here is that a lot of the things can work over internet, but work easiest if there is a physical local close by meet up point. Like a board game store, game cafe, sport clup house, etc. But not only has that gotten much harder due to the combo absurd high rent prices making new places hard and COVID having killed many existing places. But also the way the US seems to be doing zoning in many states (i.e. separation of where everyone lifes and where out of house life can happen) seems to be very hostile and many other things common for socializing in other countries
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  > A main issue I see here is that a lot of the things can work over internet, but work easiest if there is a physical local close by meet up point. Like a board game store, game cafe, sport clup house, etc. I agree with this. There is something different about in-person activities than online ones. (And I say this as someone who gets most of his socialization done online.)
- meowfly 2y ago
Gormo 2y ago
"Loneliness epidemic" is a funny turn of phrase. I know it's common today to use the word "epidemic" as a hyperbolic way of referring to any phenomenon that seems to be increasing in occurrence, but its literal meaning refers to phenomena that propagate rapidly through networks of interaction between individuals. So a literal interpretation of "loneliness epidemic" would describe a situation in which people are catching loneliness from their contact with each other.
- skyyler 2y ago
  I think "catching loneliness from their contact with each other" is a perfect way to describe how Facebook use seems to make humans feel.
  - aaronbaugher 2y ago
    Yes, people think they're socializing because it's "social media" and the little icons represent "friends" who "like" them, but there's no there there. It's like trying to live on zero-calorie foods; after a while you're starving even though your belly is always full.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      Not just Facebook, but all of Social Media, Online Gaming, Twitter/X, messaging apps, and Internet forums (even HN) are all zero-calorie online substitutes for real life. There's a reason "chronically online" and "touch grass" are sayings. EDIT: I'll also add that for myself, a lot of In Real Life events I used to host, like poker night and movie night, are slowly petering out and going away because people move away, or they aren't interested in coming, or they come but spend the whole time scrolling on their Instagram fantasy world. Yes, you can institute a no-phones rule but that just decreases attendance even more. People are more into their fantasy worlds than they are their actual (real life) friends.
- technothrasher 2y ago
  >its literal meaning refers to phenomena that propagate rapidly through networks of interaction between individuals. The actual literal meaning of epidemic is, "affecting a group of people" (epi = among/upon, dēmos = people/district). It is only when referring to disease that it take on an infectious connotation.
desertmonad 2y ago
We just need LAN parties again. Gee-wiz it's not rocket science. Maybe just scheduled outages for the internet to force people to unplug? Rolling outages. As a feature.
KittenInABox 2y ago
I feel this isn't quite accurate. The issue is not whether or not we can meet people but whether or not people can fix loneliness, which is a related but different problem. Loneliness is experiencing a lack of connection which can be resolved by activity but also involves some amount of self work-- you have to be okay with yourself on some level, and okay with the imperfections of others, you have to have the courage to be vulnerable and the tolerance for the vulnerability of others.
ViktorRay 2y ago
I really do wonder if playing a game like Dungeons and Dragons with complete strangers could reduce loneliness. It’s obvious that playing it with friends could. It’s also obvious that other types of social interaction could. But what about the specific interaction of playing a roleplaying game with total strangers? It’s a different kind of interaction than other social interactions. It might even make somebody more lonely. Imagine the misfortune of trying Dungeons and Dragons to get less lonely and you join a hostile group that is antagonistic to you because they feel you are new to the game and don’t understand it as well as they do. That could be a bad experience that would increase loneliness
- atomicnumber3 2y ago
  >you join a hostile group Cleric of Tyr falls in with group of Drow
- krapp 2y ago
  There are plenty of D&D groups that are open to new players.
- Allstar 2y ago
  Full disclosure: I am the secretary of Belgian's largest D&D non-profit organization organizing weekly sessions for around 200 players a month. We do everything we can to make new players feel welcome and have built a very warm and inclusive community that we can be proud of. Playing with complete strangers can be scary, but I cannot describe the beauty of seeing a new face return every week and completely bloom open and make new friends. It's - pun not intended - magical. I would argue that taking the dive and try it out is the best thing you can do. All we can do is make you as comfortable as possible. All you need is a good community. Let's all make that possible!
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    I'm not into D&D, but I've seen similar things with other non-D&D local groups, like poker and HAM radio. You stop by as The Newbie, and you're greeted by a big group of people who already know each other and have their own pre-formed cliques. Yes, there are always a handful of people who seem to be the designated "do everything we can to make you welcome" committee, but the newbies end up only hanging out with them, and not any of the insular "core" groups.
ikesau 2y ago
hell yeah, best hobby. there's something for everyone - worldbuilding, improv, fiction writing, encounter design, mythology, poetry, mapmaking, mini painting, powergaming. all on a regular schedule with friends and in-person. though i wish more people tried at least one other TTRPG. Chasing Adventure is my personal favourite, but there's so much going on in the indie scene to recreate any aesthetic or genre you'd like.
SubiculumCode 2y ago
As a guy who just came back from GaryCon, yes.
spudlyo 2y ago
The future has turned out to be even weirder that I could have imagined as a D&D obsessed 80s kid. I remember trying to explain to my father the benefits of role playing, engaging your creativity in world building, and that kids and adults can all enjoy this sort of thing together. My father's position was that adults who chose to spend their free time playing D&D with kids were losers who were trying to build a fantasy world to live in because they couldn't deal with the real world. He argued that while fantasy and escapism were useful recreations they can become dangerous if you allow them to take over your life, and you're better off spending your time trying to shape the real world into something that better suits you. I bet at that at that time, most adults would agree with my father, heck most kids too. I was widely derided for my D&D obsession by my peers. Now days, the entire world seems to have shifted to the view I had in the 7th grade, and I find myself more and more aligned with the views of my father. This is a depressing state of affairs, and I can't help but feel that it's mostly just sour grapes. Please everyone, adults and kids alike, enjoy playing D&D without the stigma and derision. Hail Satan!
- bluefirebrand 2y ago
  > Please everyone, adults and kids alike, enjoy playing D&D without the stigma and derision. I could not disagree more Play something else, Pathfinder, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Castles and Crusades Please stop giving Wizards of the Coast your money, please start supporting other options in the TTRPG space D&D is so huge in the hobby that it makes it impossible to find other people to play with and there are so many other games that are more fun out there!
  - shlant 2y ago
    D&D has been around for so long that you can easily play without giving a cent to Wizards of the Coast. However, I still definitely think having people try more options is good.
    - mystified5016 2y ago
      No, no you really cannot. Unless you want to play with no book, no minis, no map, and a completely home-brewed campaign with all bespoke characters and stories. At that point, you aren't playing the same game that everyone else is. Wizards has got their fingers in every slice of this pie. Even if you buy D&D stories written by someone else, you're still paying license to Wizards. When you buy a mini, you pay license to Wizards.
lapcat 2y ago
No. Betteridge's law of headlines strikes again.
mch82 2y ago
Fully Automated is a Solarpunk RPG game manual with fun game systems for exploring optimistic tech futures, https://fullyautomatedrpg.com/ https://fullyautomatedrpg.com/
rriley 2y ago
I’ve been experimenting with solo roleplaying lately, and it's been fascinating how much depth you can get with the right tools. If you're into this space, you might also enjoy playing around with things like https://roleplayr.ai https://roleplayr.ai , it's a browser extension that lets you have conversations with images using AI. Kind of like turning any visual into an interactive story prompt. Not for everyone, but definitely scratched a creative itch for me.
nickpsecurity 2y ago
[flagged]
- wing-_-nuts 2y ago
  >That's replacing reality with fantasy. Time spent leveling up there is taken away from improving reality. An opportunity cost. >Best bet is to first repent and put faith in Jesus Christ. No disrespect to your religion, but this amused me
  - ahahahahah 2y ago
    I'm not actually sure that that wasn't exactly the point.
ineptech 2y ago
It's funny that Business Insider seems to have gotten on board just in time for D&D's enshittification. For those who don't follow it, D&D was purchased a few years ago by Hasbro and is being aggressively transformed from the old model you may be familiar with (buy a couple books for rules and basics, then get together with your friends and use your imagination for the rest) to a new one built heavily around subscription services. Of course, you can still play D&D without those services, but it sure seems like the paid model is becoming the norm and will be most peoples' first experience with role-playing: a bunch of online strangers logging into the Hasbro D&D app, forking over an extra $7.99 to unlock the good subclasses, and then giving the DM (who they are paying by the hour) a 2-star rating because he only has the free-tier battle maps unlocked.
- gs17 2y ago
  Don't forget the subscription on top of all that! > forking over an extra $7.99 to unlock the good subclasses They would never let them be that affordable again. Beyond dropped the "a la carte" option a while ago, you need to pay for a full book to get one thing from it (and if you pay extra, you can get access to the book you've already paid for two weeks earlier!).
johnea 2y ago
Of course! The cure for chronic lonelyness is to be more fantasy based! Reality is just so boomer...

41 points by rntn 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Maybe not specific to the game, but meeting regularly with like-minded people regularly. I did this 10 years ago through meetup.com when I moved to a new city. I met my wife there and many friends that I still talk to today.

jf22 2y ago

One key reason I play Warhammer 40k and other war games is that it forces me to get out there and be social. I've made a lot of new friends through the hobby that I hang out with dozens of times per year. We also have text convos going 24/7. Honestly, it makes me ridiculously happy to have friends like this.

pavel_lishin 2y ago

No, engaging in hobbies with people is. D&D - and other tabletop RPGs - just happen to be a particularly fun one that has a very low entry cost, especially as a player and not a DM. (I run a biweekly game, and play in another, as well as a few other less regularly-scheduled campaigns.) Also, a word of warning for people interested in getting in the hobby - if you watch D&D shows like Critical Role, or listen to podcasts like NADDPOD or Dungeons & Daddies, keep in mind that these people are literally professional actors, with budgets & a whole crew supporting them. Your game will still be fun, and will reflect the effort you and the other players put into it, but don't be disappointed if it's not as "cinematic" as the media you consume. (Also don't be disappointed if your first table isn't a good fit, or if the game isn't fun - it might take you a few tries to find a group you click with. Remember - no D&D is better than bad D&D. There are plenty of TTRPG horror stories, and the best way to avoid being stuck in one is by just leaving a table and finding a better one.)

VWWHFSfQ 2y ago

Is regularly getting together with friends and playing games a cure for loneliness? Is that what this is asking?

Gormo 2y ago
Could it, in fact, be possible that engaging in social interaction can reduce one's feelings of loneliness? Perhaps we'll need a multi-million-dollar research study to know for sure.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
aaronbaugher 2y ago
It's funny when media types write about basic human stuff and come off like anthropologists studying another species. Tell us you live in a bubble without telling us.

dathinab 2y ago

no and yes an activity which brings people together, including such which don't yet know each other, repeatedly, often but not required to be in person, where the people have to socially engage with each other, where there is peer pressure to not just skip it all the time because it will cause issues for others that helps with loneliness that it gives a framework of expected interactions and often a context where unusual but not mean actions do not or at lest much less lead to social embarrassment helps too but here is the thing, to some degree this was/is true for a lot of traditional activities where you e.g. join club, association or similar. With the main difference being that such traditional clubs instead of being very lax/welcoming for people which are a bit socially awkward often had quite strict behavior codes. To some degree this helps people which are just not good at socializing and need some guidance to to fit in, but also often comes with all kinds of issues (like hazing rituals, or a much high chance of you not fitting in at all) anyway my point is it doesn't have to be Pen and Paper and even less DnD, it can be all kinds of "meetup with soft peer pressure to show up" situations like - a weekly board game meetup (especially for long running games like Gloomheaven) - a wow guild - some team sport clup thing (but not all, in some you just do thing alongside of others which means the extrinsic motivation to not skip it is much lower) A main issue I see here is that a lot of the things can work over internet, but work easiest if there is a physical local close by meet up point. Like a board game store, game cafe, sport clup house, etc. But not only has that gotten much harder due to the combo absurd high rent prices making new places hard and COVID having killed many existing places. But also the way the US seems to be doing zoning in many states (i.e. separation of where everyone lifes and where out of house life can happen) seems to be very hostile and many other things common for socializing in other countries

pavel_lishin 2y ago
> A main issue I see here is that a lot of the things can work over internet, but work easiest if there is a physical local close by meet up point. Like a board game store, game cafe, sport clup house, etc. I agree with this. There is something different about in-person activities than online ones. (And I say this as someone who gets most of his socialization done online.)
meowfly 2y ago

Gormo 2y ago

"Loneliness epidemic" is a funny turn of phrase. I know it's common today to use the word "epidemic" as a hyperbolic way of referring to any phenomenon that seems to be increasing in occurrence, but its literal meaning refers to phenomena that propagate rapidly through networks of interaction between individuals. So a literal interpretation of "loneliness epidemic" would describe a situation in which people are catching loneliness from their contact with each other.

skyyler 2y ago
I think "catching loneliness from their contact with each other" is a perfect way to describe how Facebook use seems to make humans feel.
- aaronbaugher 2y ago
  Yes, people think they're socializing because it's "social media" and the little icons represent "friends" who "like" them, but there's no there there. It's like trying to live on zero-calorie foods; after a while you're starving even though your belly is always full.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Not just Facebook, but all of Social Media, Online Gaming, Twitter/X, messaging apps, and Internet forums (even HN) are all zero-calorie online substitutes for real life. There's a reason "chronically online" and "touch grass" are sayings. EDIT: I'll also add that for myself, a lot of In Real Life events I used to host, like poker night and movie night, are slowly petering out and going away because people move away, or they aren't interested in coming, or they come but spend the whole time scrolling on their Instagram fantasy world. Yes, you can institute a no-phones rule but that just decreases attendance even more. People are more into their fantasy worlds than they are their actual (real life) friends.
technothrasher 2y ago
>its literal meaning refers to phenomena that propagate rapidly through networks of interaction between individuals. The actual literal meaning of epidemic is, "affecting a group of people" (epi = among/upon, dēmos = people/district). It is only when referring to disease that it take on an infectious connotation.

desertmonad 2y ago

We just need LAN parties again. Gee-wiz it's not rocket science. Maybe just scheduled outages for the internet to force people to unplug? Rolling outages. As a feature.

KittenInABox 2y ago

I feel this isn't quite accurate. The issue is not whether or not we can meet people but whether or not people can fix loneliness, which is a related but different problem. Loneliness is experiencing a lack of connection which can be resolved by activity but also involves some amount of self work-- you have to be okay with yourself on some level, and okay with the imperfections of others, you have to have the courage to be vulnerable and the tolerance for the vulnerability of others.

ViktorRay 2y ago

I really do wonder if playing a game like Dungeons and Dragons with complete strangers could reduce loneliness. It’s obvious that playing it with friends could. It’s also obvious that other types of social interaction could. But what about the specific interaction of playing a roleplaying game with total strangers? It’s a different kind of interaction than other social interactions. It might even make somebody more lonely. Imagine the misfortune of trying Dungeons and Dragons to get less lonely and you join a hostile group that is antagonistic to you because they feel you are new to the game and don’t understand it as well as they do. That could be a bad experience that would increase loneliness

atomicnumber3 2y ago
>you join a hostile group Cleric of Tyr falls in with group of Drow
krapp 2y ago
There are plenty of D&D groups that are open to new players.
Allstar 2y ago
Full disclosure: I am the secretary of Belgian's largest D&D non-profit organization organizing weekly sessions for around 200 players a month. We do everything we can to make new players feel welcome and have built a very warm and inclusive community that we can be proud of. Playing with complete strangers can be scary, but I cannot describe the beauty of seeing a new face return every week and completely bloom open and make new friends. It's - pun not intended - magical. I would argue that taking the dive and try it out is the best thing you can do. All we can do is make you as comfortable as possible. All you need is a good community. Let's all make that possible!
- ryandrake 2y ago
  I'm not into D&D, but I've seen similar things with other non-D&D local groups, like poker and HAM radio. You stop by as The Newbie, and you're greeted by a big group of people who already know each other and have their own pre-formed cliques. Yes, there are always a handful of people who seem to be the designated "do everything we can to make you welcome" committee, but the newbies end up only hanging out with them, and not any of the insular "core" groups.

ikesau 2y ago

hell yeah, best hobby. there's something for everyone - worldbuilding, improv, fiction writing, encounter design, mythology, poetry, mapmaking, mini painting, powergaming. all on a regular schedule with friends and in-person. though i wish more people tried at least one other TTRPG. Chasing Adventure is my personal favourite, but there's so much going on in the indie scene to recreate any aesthetic or genre you'd like.

SubiculumCode 2y ago

As a guy who just came back from GaryCon, yes.

spudlyo 2y ago

The future has turned out to be even weirder that I could have imagined as a D&D obsessed 80s kid. I remember trying to explain to my father the benefits of role playing, engaging your creativity in world building, and that kids and adults can all enjoy this sort of thing together. My father's position was that adults who chose to spend their free time playing D&D with kids were losers who were trying to build a fantasy world to live in because they couldn't deal with the real world. He argued that while fantasy and escapism were useful recreations they can become dangerous if you allow them to take over your life, and you're better off spending your time trying to shape the real world into something that better suits you. I bet at that at that time, most adults would agree with my father, heck most kids too. I was widely derided for my D&D obsession by my peers. Now days, the entire world seems to have shifted to the view I had in the 7th grade, and I find myself more and more aligned with the views of my father. This is a depressing state of affairs, and I can't help but feel that it's mostly just sour grapes. Please everyone, adults and kids alike, enjoy playing D&D without the stigma and derision. Hail Satan!

bluefirebrand 2y ago
> Please everyone, adults and kids alike, enjoy playing D&D without the stigma and derision. I could not disagree more Play something else, Pathfinder, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Castles and Crusades Please stop giving Wizards of the Coast your money, please start supporting other options in the TTRPG space D&D is so huge in the hobby that it makes it impossible to find other people to play with and there are so many other games that are more fun out there!
- shlant 2y ago
  D&D has been around for so long that you can easily play without giving a cent to Wizards of the Coast. However, I still definitely think having people try more options is good.
  - mystified5016 2y ago
    No, no you really cannot. Unless you want to play with no book, no minis, no map, and a completely home-brewed campaign with all bespoke characters and stories. At that point, you aren't playing the same game that everyone else is. Wizards has got their fingers in every slice of this pie. Even if you buy D&D stories written by someone else, you're still paying license to Wizards. When you buy a mini, you pay license to Wizards.

lapcat 2y ago

No. Betteridge's law of headlines strikes again.

mch82 2y ago

Fully Automated is a Solarpunk RPG game manual with fun game systems for exploring optimistic tech futures, https://fullyautomatedrpg.com/ https://fullyautomatedrpg.com/

rriley 2y ago

I’ve been experimenting with solo roleplaying lately, and it's been fascinating how much depth you can get with the right tools. If you're into this space, you might also enjoy playing around with things like https://roleplayr.ai https://roleplayr.ai , it's a browser extension that lets you have conversations with images using AI. Kind of like turning any visual into an interactive story prompt. Not for everyone, but definitely scratched a creative itch for me.

nickpsecurity 2y ago

[flagged]

wing-_-nuts 2y ago
>That's replacing reality with fantasy. Time spent leveling up there is taken away from improving reality. An opportunity cost. >Best bet is to first repent and put faith in Jesus Christ. No disrespect to your religion, but this amused me
- ahahahahah 2y ago
  I'm not actually sure that that wasn't exactly the point.

ineptech 2y ago

It's funny that Business Insider seems to have gotten on board just in time for D&D's enshittification. For those who don't follow it, D&D was purchased a few years ago by Hasbro and is being aggressively transformed from the old model you may be familiar with (buy a couple books for rules and basics, then get together with your friends and use your imagination for the rest) to a new one built heavily around subscription services. Of course, you can still play D&D without those services, but it sure seems like the paid model is becoming the norm and will be most peoples' first experience with role-playing: a bunch of online strangers logging into the Hasbro D&D app, forking over an extra $7.99 to unlock the good subclasses, and then giving the DM (who they are paying by the hour) a 2-star rating because he only has the free-tier battle maps unlocked.

gs17 2y ago
Don't forget the subscription on top of all that! > forking over an extra $7.99 to unlock the good subclasses They would never let them be that affordable again. Beyond dropped the "a la carte" option a while ago, you need to pay for a full book to get one thing from it (and if you pay extra, you can get access to the book you've already paid for two weeks earlier!).

johnea 2y ago

Of course! The cure for chronic lonelyness is to be more fantasy based! Reality is just so boomer...