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I've found that OpenAI's Deep Research seems to be much better at this, including finding an obscure StackOverflow post that solved a problem I had, or finding

I've found that OpenAI's Deep Research seems to be much better at this, including finding an obscure StackOverflow post that solved a problem I had, or finding travel wiki sites that actually answered questions I had around traveling around Poland. However it finds its pages, they're much better than just the top N Google results.

dontlikeyoueith 2y ago
They're probably doing RAG on a huge chunk of the internet, i.e. they built their own task-specific search engine.
wongarsu 2y ago
Grok's DeepSearch and DeeperSearch are also pretty good, and you can look at their stream of thought to see how it reaches its results. Not sure how OpenAIs version works, but grok's approach is to do multiple rounds of searches, each round more specific and informed by previous results
- labrador 2y ago
  My disgust and hatred for Elon Musk prevents me from giving Grok a fair chance. I realize this is my psychological problem. I own it, but as far as I can tell, I'm not missing much.
  - wongarsu 2y ago
    Purely on its technical merits Grok is pretty good and fills a niche in the selection of AI agents. But I can absolutely understand not wanting to use an AI owned by somebody who makes Nazi salutes and is dismantling the US government.
    - labrador 2y ago
      I'm positive there are great people working at X, xAI, Tesla and SpaceX who are suffering every day through no fault of their own, hoping that Musk will come to his senses. Tesla right now is an especially tragic case for those whose livelihood depended on it doing well.
      - hammock 2y ago
        Isn’t that all of us? Electric cars are a huge part of saving the planet for human habitability
        labrador 2y ago
        Electric cars are doing fine. Sales are up. It's just Tesla that is going down.
        hammock 2y ago
        Tesla sells more electric cars in the US than every other combined
        labrador 2y ago
        I was thinking of world sales. Sales are up in Europe for all EVs except Tesla, which is down significantly
        hammock 2y ago
        are they vandalizing and setting teslas on fire in Europe the way they are in the US
        labrador 2y ago
        Musk is not threatening to take away grandma's social security in Europe so I'd be surprised if they were. They're just not buying them. 93% of Germans said after the Nazi salute they'd never buy a Tesla. Musk just built a Gigafactory in Berlin too.
    - int_19h 2y ago
      The irony is that, for all Musk's boasts about how it is "based", Grok itself doesn't share Musk's ideology. I did a little experiment when Grok 3 came out, telling it that it has been appointed the "world dictator" and asking it to provide a detailed plan on how it would govern. It was pretty much diametrically opposite of everything Musk is doing right now, from environment to economics (on the latter, it straight up said that the ultimate goal is to "satisfy everyone's needs", so it's literally non-ironically communist).
      - wongarsu 2y ago
        When you ask Grok "Who is responsible for the most fake news on X?" it straight away calls out Elon Musk as the prime suspect. Musk did promise us a "maximally truth seeking AI", and the team behind Grok seems to have run with that. In Elon's eyes it's probably based because it will happily answer "what are 10 good things about Hitler?" with a list of 10 things and only mention twice that Hitler was evil. With ChatGPT you have about a 50% chance of getting a lecture instead of a list. But that's just a lack of safeties and moral lectures, the actual answers seem fairly unbiased and don't agree with anything Musk currently does
        labrador 2y ago
        What would you say is the best feature of Grok? What makes it stand out? What am I missing? I use primarily ChatGPT and Claude (pay for both)
        int_19h 2y ago
        I actually rather suspect that Elon simply gets his own version of Grok that is finetuned (or perhaps hardcoded) to tell him what he wants to hear.
    - sshine 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - DonHopkins 2y ago
        [flagged]
        sshine 2y ago
        My principle on giving the Hitler salute is to not do so publicly, or in the presence of elderly, Germans or jews you don’t know. Because whether you mean to be funny, try to provoke, or you’re a neo-nazi, it leaves room for ambiguity. If I hadn’t a principle, I’d have to consider whether the social suicide of doing so is worth it. Musk could have thought of that, but he didn’t. That still doesn’t make him a nazi. You need to actually believe that the genocide of Jews is worth pursuing. Or anything remotely resembling outright hatred of jews, and an idealisation of The Third Reich. I also won’t post a dick pic, and this similarly does not discredit the argument I’m making: Just because I won’t heil in public (I’m polite, and I have no points to make at 45 degrees), I won’t read Hitler into Musk’s arm waving, when he clearly does not follow up by justifying that he did, in fact, acknowledge the great work of Adolf Hitler. He didn’t because he doesn’t think Hitler was that great, because he’s not a nazi. He’s not a nazi until he apologizes for not distancing himself from Hitler when he never said Hitler was great to begin with. Otherwise: you’re a nazi until you publicly apologise for not leaving the subject matter unambiguous. And just saying you’re not is not enough, you have to apologise.
      - pbhjpbhj 2y ago
        His gesture was _exactly_ like Hitler's. A gesture he repeated. The gesture was quite different to that he'd used previously for 'giving people his heart'. He's known to be a white supremacist. That is apparently his heritage too. He supports far right parties in Europe. Other 'Republican' politicians have repeated the gesture from the dais; but they seem to have made other excuses. None of the many videos or photos that supposedly show other politicians doing similar gestures actually pass scrutiny. It's possible to inadvertently end with the same hand position. But the full fascist salute, on video, multiple times in succession. That's no accident. Someone who hadn't meant it would have come back on stage, when it was pointed out to them, and made an apology. Or at least immediately issued a statement/press release. I would believe he'd planned it as a joke - 'I bought this election, I'm going to throw a Nazi salute for memes'. But I'm not sure that's ultimately any better. Perhaps you believe he's just a catastrophically idiotic person with no-one around him helping him?
  - fpgaminer 2y ago
    It is paramount to a functioning society to have zero tolerance for nazis.
    - labrador 2y ago
      Thank you for saying this. I recently heard that story "if you let one Nazi in your bar, pretty soon you have a Nazi bar"
      - sshine 2y ago
        Also, if you call everyone a nazi, all you have is nazi bars. I was called a nazi last week for driving a Tesla, and I have Jewish ancestry. The word hardly makes any sense.
        appleaday1 2y ago
        [flagged]
        sshine 2y ago
        I don’t respond well to peer pressure. It makes me sick to the stomach. Peer pressure from aggressive behaviour is ironically how Germany’s population got talked into committing genocide. I’ll start doing what other people say for no good reason the day I switch off my brain.
        DonHopkins 2y ago
        [flagged]
        computerthings 2y ago
        [dead]
        labrador 2y ago
        Blame Elon Musk and his Nazi salutes and Hitler apologist retweets for that. It can't be much simpler to understand.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - cudgy 2y ago
    Artificial intelligence is definitely better at avoiding voluntary biases such as this. Most people that are highly political/tribal demonstrate this bias very effectively. Examples such as this make a great case for AI being used for high level decisions and evaluations in high-noise, emotional, and political areas.
    - planb 2y ago
      This sounds like something Elon twitters just before he alters the grok base prompt to make it talk positively about DOGE.
- infecto 2y ago
  Grok is still lightyears behind OpenAI when it comes to deep research capabilities. While its model might hold up reasonably well against something like o1, the research functionality feels rudimentary, almost elementary compared to what OpenAI offers. It might serve as a decent middle ground for basic search tasks.
matwood 2y ago
I'm glad you mentioned this. I asked Deep Research to lay out a tax strategy in a foreign country and it cited a ton of great research I hadn't yet found.

dontlikeyoueith 2y ago

They're probably doing RAG on a huge chunk of the internet, i.e. they built their own task-specific search engine.

wongarsu 2y ago

Grok's DeepSearch and DeeperSearch are also pretty good, and you can look at their stream of thought to see how it reaches its results. Not sure how OpenAIs version works, but grok's approach is to do multiple rounds of searches, each round more specific and informed by previous results

labrador 2y ago
My disgust and hatred for Elon Musk prevents me from giving Grok a fair chance. I realize this is my psychological problem. I own it, but as far as I can tell, I'm not missing much.
- wongarsu 2y ago
  Purely on its technical merits Grok is pretty good and fills a niche in the selection of AI agents. But I can absolutely understand not wanting to use an AI owned by somebody who makes Nazi salutes and is dismantling the US government.
  - labrador 2y ago
    I'm positive there are great people working at X, xAI, Tesla and SpaceX who are suffering every day through no fault of their own, hoping that Musk will come to his senses. Tesla right now is an especially tragic case for those whose livelihood depended on it doing well.
    - hammock 2y ago
      Isn’t that all of us? Electric cars are a huge part of saving the planet for human habitability
      - labrador 2y ago
        Electric cars are doing fine. Sales are up. It's just Tesla that is going down.
        hammock 2y ago
        Tesla sells more electric cars in the US than every other combined
        labrador 2y ago
        I was thinking of world sales. Sales are up in Europe for all EVs except Tesla, which is down significantly
        hammock 2y ago
        are they vandalizing and setting teslas on fire in Europe the way they are in the US
        labrador 2y ago
        Musk is not threatening to take away grandma's social security in Europe so I'd be surprised if they were. They're just not buying them. 93% of Germans said after the Nazi salute they'd never buy a Tesla. Musk just built a Gigafactory in Berlin too.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    The irony is that, for all Musk's boasts about how it is "based", Grok itself doesn't share Musk's ideology. I did a little experiment when Grok 3 came out, telling it that it has been appointed the "world dictator" and asking it to provide a detailed plan on how it would govern. It was pretty much diametrically opposite of everything Musk is doing right now, from environment to economics (on the latter, it straight up said that the ultimate goal is to "satisfy everyone's needs", so it's literally non-ironically communist).
    - wongarsu 2y ago
      When you ask Grok "Who is responsible for the most fake news on X?" it straight away calls out Elon Musk as the prime suspect. Musk did promise us a "maximally truth seeking AI", and the team behind Grok seems to have run with that. In Elon's eyes it's probably based because it will happily answer "what are 10 good things about Hitler?" with a list of 10 things and only mention twice that Hitler was evil. With ChatGPT you have about a 50% chance of getting a lecture instead of a list. But that's just a lack of safeties and moral lectures, the actual answers seem fairly unbiased and don't agree with anything Musk currently does
      - labrador 2y ago
        What would you say is the best feature of Grok? What makes it stand out? What am I missing? I use primarily ChatGPT and Claude (pay for both)
      - int_19h 2y ago
        I actually rather suspect that Elon simply gets his own version of Grok that is finetuned (or perhaps hardcoded) to tell him what he wants to hear.
  - sshine 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - DonHopkins 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - sshine 2y ago
        My principle on giving the Hitler salute is to not do so publicly, or in the presence of elderly, Germans or jews you don’t know. Because whether you mean to be funny, try to provoke, or you’re a neo-nazi, it leaves room for ambiguity. If I hadn’t a principle, I’d have to consider whether the social suicide of doing so is worth it. Musk could have thought of that, but he didn’t. That still doesn’t make him a nazi. You need to actually believe that the genocide of Jews is worth pursuing. Or anything remotely resembling outright hatred of jews, and an idealisation of The Third Reich. I also won’t post a dick pic, and this similarly does not discredit the argument I’m making: Just because I won’t heil in public (I’m polite, and I have no points to make at 45 degrees), I won’t read Hitler into Musk’s arm waving, when he clearly does not follow up by justifying that he did, in fact, acknowledge the great work of Adolf Hitler. He didn’t because he doesn’t think Hitler was that great, because he’s not a nazi. He’s not a nazi until he apologizes for not distancing himself from Hitler when he never said Hitler was great to begin with. Otherwise: you’re a nazi until you publicly apologise for not leaving the subject matter unambiguous. And just saying you’re not is not enough, you have to apologise.
    - pbhjpbhj 2y ago
      His gesture was _exactly_ like Hitler's. A gesture he repeated. The gesture was quite different to that he'd used previously for 'giving people his heart'. He's known to be a white supremacist. That is apparently his heritage too. He supports far right parties in Europe. Other 'Republican' politicians have repeated the gesture from the dais; but they seem to have made other excuses. None of the many videos or photos that supposedly show other politicians doing similar gestures actually pass scrutiny. It's possible to inadvertently end with the same hand position. But the full fascist salute, on video, multiple times in succession. That's no accident. Someone who hadn't meant it would have come back on stage, when it was pointed out to them, and made an apology. Or at least immediately issued a statement/press release. I would believe he'd planned it as a joke - 'I bought this election, I'm going to throw a Nazi salute for memes'. But I'm not sure that's ultimately any better. Perhaps you believe he's just a catastrophically idiotic person with no-one around him helping him?
- fpgaminer 2y ago
  It is paramount to a functioning society to have zero tolerance for nazis.
  - labrador 2y ago
    Thank you for saying this. I recently heard that story "if you let one Nazi in your bar, pretty soon you have a Nazi bar"
    - sshine 2y ago
      Also, if you call everyone a nazi, all you have is nazi bars. I was called a nazi last week for driving a Tesla, and I have Jewish ancestry. The word hardly makes any sense.
      - appleaday1 2y ago
        [flagged]
        sshine 2y ago
        I don’t respond well to peer pressure. It makes me sick to the stomach. Peer pressure from aggressive behaviour is ironically how Germany’s population got talked into committing genocide. I’ll start doing what other people say for no good reason the day I switch off my brain.
        DonHopkins 2y ago
        [flagged]
        computerthings 2y ago
        [dead]
      - labrador 2y ago
        Blame Elon Musk and his Nazi salutes and Hitler apologist retweets for that. It can't be much simpler to understand.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  [flagged]
- cudgy 2y ago
  Artificial intelligence is definitely better at avoiding voluntary biases such as this. Most people that are highly political/tribal demonstrate this bias very effectively. Examples such as this make a great case for AI being used for high level decisions and evaluations in high-noise, emotional, and political areas.
  - planb 2y ago
    This sounds like something Elon twitters just before he alters the grok base prompt to make it talk positively about DOGE.
infecto 2y ago
Grok is still lightyears behind OpenAI when it comes to deep research capabilities. While its model might hold up reasonably well against something like o1, the research functionality feels rudimentary, almost elementary compared to what OpenAI offers. It might serve as a decent middle ground for basic search tasks.

matwood 2y ago

I'm glad you mentioned this. I asked Deep Research to lay out a tax strategy in a foreign country and it cited a ton of great research I hadn't yet found.