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The Last Drops of Mexico City
- LeftHandPath 2y agoOff topic: This page is beautiful. Love it when people use magazine-style layouts on the web.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- racl101 2y agoPretty stylish. Wouldn't want to read this on a phone though I tell you hwhat.
- Aardwolf 2y agoWorks great in firefox on android. Text takes exact screen width and is not too small nor too big, and there are no stupid floating right side icons overlapping the text, what more do you need It does have an unneeded text-scrolling-up effect, and breaks reader view which means they're doing something sinister, but at least reader view isn't actually necessary in this one for the way it looks
- jppullen 2y ago[dead]
- Suppafly 2y ago>Wouldn't want to read this on a phone though I tell you hwhat. Most decently designed sites know how to respond to different screen sizes.
- Marsymars 2y agoI read it on my TV, and it was pretty nice.
- jppullen 2y ago[dead]
- ropable 2y agoCounterpoint: it's super clear and easy to read on Firefox mobile. No popups or interstitial ads. Yes it's quite lengthy and there are many pictures, but you know what you're getting into with any long article like this one. This is exactly what I want for reading on mobile.
- true_blue 2y agoIt's pretty for sure, but it breaks reader view which I use a lot, so I don't like it. also it requires a lot of unnecessary scrolling to read since the text is broken up so much
- ericmay 2y agoIs it just me or is anyone else unable to swipe to go back to the parent HN page from the longlead.com website?
- karpovv-boris 2y agoIt's like old "science and life" journals. If you have that experience, then you'll be appreciating it. Love it
- jppullen 2y ago[dead]
- pdntspa 2y agoUgh no. My scroll wheel finger hurts because they are allergic to a simple text flow. I hate it when people get too fancy with this shit
- glenneroo 2y agoPro-tip: If you click anywhere on the page, you can also use the arrow keys on your keyboard to scroll up/down and avoid finger-wheel-fatigue :)
- eudhxhdhsb32 2y agoIt's annoying to read on my phone. Text and pictures are moving at different speeds than I'm scrolling.
- jppullen 2y agoHi all -- I'm Long Lead's editor, John Patrick Pullen. Thanks for the compliments (those of you who have) and for those who have other thoughts, we hear you. I'm personally a big fan of reader-mode on browsers, myself, but at Long Lead, we think there's an opportunity for a new kind of journalism, one that takes time to produce and relies on design as much as it does editorial and art. You can't stuff that in a reader-mode — and really we don't want to. We're a journalism studio. What's a journalism studio, you ask? Well, what's a film studio? You know -- they produce feature films that look great in the right or best contexts. Watching on a phone isn't as good as a tablet, which isn't as good as a TV or a projector. Similarly, our features journalism is built to scale (we do actually build separate mobile layouts) but isn't designed to leave our site. Also, all of them are bespoke builds made to support the reporting that they're housing, because every feature has its own needs. We work in every medium, too, from podcasts to documentaries to photo features like this one. We believe there's an opportunity for this kind of journalism, because it used to exist. Remember a time when magazines arrived in your inbox with gorgeous photos and fact-checked features that took months to make? That's what we're doing, but online. I hope you follow us and our work. We have some exciting stuff ahead. The best way to know when our next feature drops is by subscribing to our newsletter at www.longlead.com/newsletters. Thanks so much for reading!
- internetter 2y agoA couple pieces of feedback from someone who loves your content 1. I can't find an RSS feed anywhere? 2. Your homepage (https://longlead.com/#stories https://longlead.com/#stories) is — and there's no gentle way to put this — borderline unusable. All I want is a simple list of your stories. With a little bit of "undesigning," you'd have an amazing site :)
- jppullen 2y agoThank you! 1. Being RSS-compatible would unbundle the editorial and art from the design. I wish RSS readers and aggregators would support our builds, but they do not. We do produce newsletters (currently through Substack) that do/would, but those are very different editorial products. 2. I understand this critique. We have outgrown this build, and are looking to develop a new website this year. It was good when we were starting out, but it doesn't serve our readership well anymore -- as you're pointing out!
- mjmsmith 2y agoWhy on earth is jppullen's comment dead?
- jppullen 2y agoWell that's not cool. Here it is again: Hi all -- I'm Long Lead's editor, John Patrick Pullen. Thanks for the compliments (those of you who have) and for those who have other thoughts, we hear you. I'm personally a big fan of reader-mode on browsers, myself, but at Long Lead, we think there's an opportunity for a new kind of journalism, one that takes time to produce and relies on design as much as it does editorial and art. You can't stuff that in a reader-mode — and really we don't want to. We're a journalism studio. What's a journalism studio, you ask? Well, what's a film studio? You know -- they produce feature films that look great in the right or best contexts. Watching on a phone isn't as good as a tablet, which isn't as good as a TV or a projector. Similarly, our features journalism is built to scale (we do actually build separate mobile layouts) but isn't designed to leave our site. Also, all of them are bespoke builds made to support the reporting that they're housing, because every feature has its own needs. We work in every medium, too, from podcasts to documentaries to photo features like this one. We believe there's an opportunity for this kind of journalism, because it used to exist. Remember a time when magazines arrived in your inbox with gorgeous photos and fact-checked features that took months to make? That's what we're doing, but online. I hope you follow us and our work. We have some exciting stuff ahead. The best way to know when our next feature drops is by subscribing to our newsletter at www.longlead.com/newsletters. Thanks so much for reading!
- saagarjha 2y agoNew account, likely. It's been vouched for now presumably.
- alephnerd 2y agoNezahualcoyotl/Neza, Naucalpan, and Ecatepec (the municipalities mentioned) are not in Mexico City proper. They along with Iztapalapa are the former slum towns. How much of the water crisis can be attributed to the fact that these were all unplanned muncipalities, with split governance between Mexico State and CDMX Edit: Yep, looks like only 15% of water in Mexico is allocated to human consumption and the rest is for agriculture and manufacturing [0]. Now I'm curious how many seats in Estado Mexico's assembly are within the CDMX metro and how many are not. If majority of them aren't within the CDMX metro then it's the classic democracy dilemma you see in Brazil, India, Indonesia, Philippines, etc as well. [0] - https://www.axios.com/2024/11/26/mexico-water-crisis-claudia-sheinbaum https://www.axios.com/2024/11/26/mexico-water-crisis-claudia...
- arebop 2y agoFor comparison, about 13% of water in US is allocated to "human consumption" with the rest for ag and mfg [https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/science/total-water-use-united-states https://www.usgs.gov/special-topics/water-science-school/sci...].
- alephnerd 2y agoGood point! But American sewage systems are also functional and maintained/upgraded. I'm not sure how DPW-style work is funded or managed at the municipality level in MX.
- ForTheKidz 2y agoMedico city is basically at the level of the water table, no? Building a sewer must be a serious pain in the ass.
- alephnerd 2y agoEdit 3: My hypothesis about state impact doesn't hold (forgot that Mexico follows the same system as the US of direct governer elections plus a mix of direct and proportional representation). That said, now I'm curious about how public funds are disbursed to localities. How do local municipalities and unincorporated areas get services funded in Mexico?
- non- 2y agoOne thing I'd like more info on is in what ways Nestlé and other water companies have contributed to the problem. I've long heard that they lobby to prevent the local Government in CDMX from providing potable water in order to protect their bottled water and water-delivery business, but I actually don't know how well substantiated those accusations are. On the positive side of things, Mexico City gets a ton of rain during the wet season which can be harvested with rooftop collectors.
- myaccountonhn 2y agoWhen I lived in Oaxaca it was a massive issue with portable water only being available through private means from private springs in the nearby area. All hotels and tourist attractions had access to water, while the rest went without, some for months.
- nozzlegear 2y agoDo you remember how much they would charge for water?
- racl101 2y agoI've heard from a Mexican buddy that Coca Cola is cheaper in Mexico than drinking water.
- pier25 2y agoI've never seen this
- recursive 2y agoCoca Cola should just make a new formula that doesn't have any flavoring, carbonation, or sweetener. That should be even cheaper.
- dhosek 2y agoThey can call it Dasani and sell it for more than they charge for the sweetened flavored carbonated beverage.
- potato3732842 2y agoSoft drinks get carbonation and syrup added and are bottled close to point of use (because that's cheaper and better than shipping the finished product) so they're subject to local potable water costs. Unless government is distorting thing that just doesn't make sense.
- xdc0 2y agoThat’s a myth. In many parts of Mexico, if not everywhere, water treatment is bad and drinking tap water is not advised, so you buy purified water. It cost around 10 pesos (50 cents) to fill a 19 liter (5 gallon) jug. That’s cheaper than a single 12oz can of coca cola
- Marsymars 2y agoWhat's with the $5/5 gallon reference in the article? I thought that seemed expensive.
- 2y ago
- eckmLJE 2y agoI kept hoping they'd provide a reference of Tenochtitlan. Possibly the most striking thing I learned when visiting Mexico City. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenochtitlan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenochtitlan
- articlereader 2y agothey did! >Mexico City was built on top of what used to be a large body of water, which would make its water shortage appear ironic if it wasn’t so tragic. In the early 1300s, the Mexica (or Aztecs) settled on an island in the middle of what used to be a huge lake called Texcoco, the largest among five intertwined lakes. But after the arrival of the Spaniards, the city started to expand, and the urban sprawl caused the lake system to dry up. By the early 20th century, the rivers feeding the once-rich lake zone were put into pipelines to make way for motor vehicles. Very little is left of the lakes, while the rivers have become practically invisible.
- eckmLJE 2y agoThank you! I scanned the text and scrolled through all the pics, and searched for `tenoch` and didn't get any hits. "The urban sprawl caused the lake system to dry up" glosses over a super interesting sequence of decisions that led to the disaster. More reading for anyone interested https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mexico_City#Flooding,_the_Desagüe,_and_environmental_changes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Mexico_City#Floodin... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Texcoco#Artificial_drainage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Texcoco#Artificial_draina... https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2022/09/mexico-citys-desage-of-1607-from-an-island-to-a-water-crisis/ https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2022/09/mexico-citys-desage-of-160...
- articlereader 2y agogood read, thanks for sharing!
- ck2 2y agoHow are we doing with next-gen solar desalination? Or has all science been defunded at this point? https://news.mit.edu/2022/solar-desalination-system-inexpensive-0214 https://news.mit.edu/2022/solar-desalination-system-inexpens... I know some US warships have massive desalination plants onboard, are they nuclear powered? Can we use the new micro-nuclear-reactors to power those for cities?
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoDo data centers need to use fresh drinking water or can they use water with some salt in it (I'm guessing not because the salt corrodes?). They could at least use gray water?
- Robotbeat 2y agoData centers don’t need any water. They can reject heat directly to the air. If the price of water were high enough, that’s what they’d do instead of evaporative coolers. This is a fake problem driven by clickbait headlines or, at worse, mispricing of water.
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoOk, granted, I'm guessing they are just working with different capital costs (to build air-based cooling; i.e. via a huge air cooling tower). But I'm sure there is a place where data centers could be using subprime water for cooling economically without artificially low water prices (the issue then would be capital costs for transporting and using subprime water).
- collingreen 2y ago> Data centers don’t need any water. Is this using "need" to only mean "there is no possible alternative in any design"? Your statement -implies- datacenters don't use water for cooling or, if they do, it isn't enough to cause any problem. How do you square this with the fact that lots of datacenters DO use water for cooling? Yes, if water was prohibitively expensive businesses would find alternatives - that's what prohibitively expensive means so I'm not adding anything more than a tautology here. Similarly does your claim that at worst this is a mispricing of water mean that they DO use water and it drives the cost up? Isn't that the point here, that businesses driving up the cost of water is bad for the people that also need (your definition of "need" above) water?
- pier25 2y agoI live in Mexico. About 30 mins from where I live, Amazon and others have built data centers (presumably for AI) which consume water. This is affecting agriculture in a region that is already suffering from drought. https://www.context.news/ai/thirsty-data-centres-spring-up-in-water-poor-mexican-town https://www.context.news/ai/thirsty-data-centres-spring-up-i...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- doctoboggan 2y agoGenuinely curious, how much water do data centers consume? I would think they might need a good amount of water at startup, but any use would be in a closed system. Am I misunderstanding their water use? Do they lose a lot of it to the atmosphere somehow?
- physhster 2y agoSome data centers use evaporative cooling, in outside chillers. The water use is fairly high.
- Robotbeat 2y agoIs there a reason the price of the water can’t be equal to marginal cost of getting more water, so the net effect of the data center is zero? Water can be piped in from elsewhere, can be made from reverse osmosis from even briney aquifers or seawater or even sewage. Is this really an unsolvable problem or is it just a mispricing of the water? This makes me skeptical of stories like this.
- bobmcnamara 2y agoGovernment usually, same as it is with Nestle in the US.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
- infinghxsg 2y ago[dead]
- oldgregg 2y agoAlso Valle De Bravo is the Hamptons of Mexico
- lorenzowood 2y ago"The Water Knife" by Paolo Bacigalupi
- uAdoofus 2y agoInteresting article. Terrible craftmansship in the HTML/CSS department.
- readthenotes1 2y agoIt works well on my phone in dark mode whereas webpages like this usually don't. What exactly are you calling terrible?
- njarboe 2y ago[flagged]
- actionfromafar 2y agoWhich flower children are in power at this time?
- cicloid 2y agoI'm still waiting for the Solarpunk future I was promised as a child.
- panzagl 2y agoKeep waiting, the dystopian cyberpunk future I was promised in my childhood is finally arriving...
- zuminator 2y ago...of our own creation.
- quickthrowman 2y agoMexico City is 7,350 feet above sea level.
- switchbak 2y agoPumped hydro, except the storage is in your body.
- sofixa 2y agoYou might want to check a topographic map of Mexico and exactly where Mexico City is located before being so dismissive. It's in an elevated plain (more than 2km elevation), surrounded by mountains in the middle of the country, ~300km from the closest sea. Also, it's a seismically active place, with active volcanoes, and with highly unstable ground that is sinking. While desalination is unquestionably a good solution to combat the overconsmption of water in many places, aqueducts from desaliatnion plants on the sea coast to Mexico City would be extremely expensive. And you'll have to figure out what to do with the salt brine.
- metalman 2y agoMexico city is doomed, to what exactly and when, is an open question, and perhaps it's where it's position on the doomometer compared to anywhere else, is pertenent. It serves "us" as a distraction of our own doomomedness and why not, my Mexican friends, are (jovialy) derissive about any number of things happening in, redacted, redacted, gringredacted, places.
- davidw 2y agoJust casually throwing in 'overpopulation' when in so many places, water for actual human needs like drinking, bathing and even washing clothes, is a tiny fraction compared to much more wasteful things like grass, America's largest crop. I live in a dry bit of the American west and municipal usage is a small fraction of water usage (about 8%). Agriculture is often not very efficient because of old water rules that give water to things like hobby farms when real farms downstream don't get what they need.
- dralley 2y agoWhile that's true it has very little to do with Mexico City's specific issues. It's at 7300 feet elevation surrounded by a ring of mountains that keep out a lot of the rain and moisture, and there's already not that much agriculture going on given the limited space.
- davidw 2y agoI don't know anything about water allocation and provisioning in Mexico City, but the article itself doesn't limit itself to Mexico city either: "It exemplifies a future that cities worldwide could face if global warming and overpopulation continue." The city where I live is, I'm sure, very different from Mexico City, but we have reduced our water usage while the population has grown, thanks to things like xeriscaping. I imagine things are more difficult in Mexico City because there is less money, and orders of magnitude more people.
- PaulDavisThe1st 2y ago> we have reduced our water usage while the population has grown I don't know where you live, but if it is a city like most others, you've likely reduced your per-capita water use, but not total water use. This is certainly true of most cities in the American west. They have made impressive (above 30%) reductions in per-capita water use, but they have (in many cases) grown by more than that.
- Nifty3929 2y ago100% this. or 95%. When you say "grass, America's largest crop" I assume you are referring to lawns, but actually I think your last point is the crucial one: "...municipal usage is a small fraction of water usage (about 8%). Agriculture..." California has plenty of water for it's people. If you add up ALL residential, commercial and industrial use, including all outdoor landscape watering, baseball fields, golf courses, etc - it all adds up to around 10-20% of the water used (depending on rainfall). Where does the rest (80-90%) of California's water go? Agriculture. Half the produce of which is exported to other states and countries. Did you know CA grows a LOT of rice near it's capitol, which is naturally almost a desert? And about half of that rice is exported, much to Asia (!!) California is rather like Saudi Arabia, with the farmers pumping out all the water and selling it in the form of agricultural produce. But take a shorter shower please! And you don't really NEED to flush that toilet.
- eddof13 2y agoBeen in Mexico almost 7 years- it's common knowledge, you don't drink the tap water, ever. The destitute who can't afford bottled water might be the exception.
- 4fterd4rk 2y agoThe majority of the world has non-potable tap water.
- jajko 2y agoTry drinking tap water in Africa, India, Bangladesh, most of South America and South Asia, in fact most of the 3rd world... good luck. Ie India had (maybe still has) high infant mortality due to water-transmitted diseases. Once you can't effectively 100% separate waste water from natural water table or other sources for drinking, everything becomes contaminated.
- blovescoffee 2y agoI’ve lived here for 3 years and been drinking the tap for about a year. I’ve got lots of friends with “filters” that don’t actually do anything for microbes, and they drink that water. Anyways, very very few people can’t afford a garrafón.
- ForTheKidz 2y agoBrita filters most certainly do filter out "microbes". Just with low certainty that drops over the age of the filter.
- blovescoffee 2y agoFWIW I was not referring to brita filters. Two days ago I was at a friends house who had a literal fabric filter on top of his big water carafe.
- whymauri 2y agoIt's not the microbes in my experience, it's the heavy metals suspended in the water. It's like a 0.1% damage over time effect. A few days drinking it? Fine. A few weeks? Still fine. Months? I started feeling just a bit more sick until I cut it out for filtered water.
- arrty88 2y agoWill any of the feet of snow that dropped on Colorado Cali and Utah make it down to CDMX supply basins?
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y agono, even if we removed every dam and didn't consume a drop of water, it would not reach CDMX by natural means.
- marianaenhn 2y agoMexico City is having a serious problem right now
- josu 2y agoAn important detail that the article has somehow left out. Texcoco, one of Mexico City's main lakes is salty. The Aztecs built a system of dams to separate the salty waters of the lake from the rain water of the effluents.
- heavymetalpoizn 2y ago[dead]
- erickhill 2y agoMy goodness my eyes really must suck. Had to zoom into that article multiple times in order to read it (especially the photo captions).
- hotep99 2y agoI live in Mexico City and a large part of this is the odd compulsion that chilangos have to put concrete over absolutely everything. It rains but there is very little unpaved surfaces to absorb any of that water and return it to underground sources. I've had friends and family members inexplicably rip out nice gardens at their houses and replace it with paved surfaces. My in-laws have a large yard that only has a few square meters of unpaved ground left. My street has flooding problems during intense rains every couple years in large part because no water can be absorbed anywhere and if the small street drains get clogged with branches it is a disaster.
- roncesvalles 2y agoThe choices are either pavement or grass. Open ground creates dust and mud. The reason why 1st world cities look "cleaner" is because every single sq inch is either paved or turfed with grass.
- r00fus 2y agoXeriscaping is a thing. Also are other greenery options than grass. We had a dust/mud patch, but then planted 100% clover (by simply throwing seeds on the ground). Now we have completely unmanaged greenery. It's not neat, we don't even water it - it's green in the spring, golden/brown in other seasons. Easy peasy.
- ForTheKidz 2y agoAnyone who claims the west is clean has never been to philly
- _ache_ 2y agoOk, so nobody seam to talk about the privatisation of water in Mexico. It is at the root of the problem. Coca Cola is the most known absurd operator of this industry. National water is too cheap and used by private company for nearly nothing. Vicente Fox was a president of Coca Cola company in Mexico before becoming the president of Mexico, you can guess the « colonisation » was easier by that. (Coca Cola isn't alone, it is just the most known, Danone, the French company is also plundering Mexico water for example, AI datacenter too, ...). Coca cola is known to be responsible for the drying of Monterrey and San Cristobal de Las Casas.
- thelastgallon 2y agoIt is never mentioned that electricity from fossil fuel generation consumes a lot of water. According to the U.S. Geological Survey, electric power generators are the largest source of U.S. water withdrawals and account for about 40% of total water withdrawals in the United States:https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37453 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37453 Thermoelectric power plants—including coal, nuclear, and natural gas plants—boil water to create steam, which then spins a turbine to generate electricity. Cooling water is passed through the steam leaving the turbine to cool and condense the steam. This step reduces the steam's exit pressure and recaptures its heat, which is then used to preheat fluid entering the boiler. U.S. thermoelectric plants are the largest source of U.S. water withdrawals, accounting for more than 40% of total U.S. water withdrawals in 2015:https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50698 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50698
- tomw1808 2y agoI have an honest question here, that is a bit off-topic: When I look at the pictures, I see most people are overweight (some are outright fat and obese). Is that just by accident on these particular pictures with a tiny sample size? Or is that a problem in Mexico? I'm from Europe and when I think about Mexico, I do not have overweight people in my mind, instead a relatively healthy diet of local produce. Is that a misconception?
- hyperliner 2y ago[dead]
- wolftickets 2y agoYes that is a misconception: https://data.worldobesity.org/country/mexico-139/#data_prevalence https://data.worldobesity.org/country/mexico-139/#data_preva...
- tomw1808 2y agowow, that is quite an eye opener. That's terrible really. It's like a whole country is addicted to sugar drinks and wheat flour (?). Thanks for sharing
- alecco 2y agohttps://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/nov/04/sugar-rush-how-mexico-addiction-to-fizzy-drinks-fuelled-its-health-crisis-acc https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/nov/04/s...
- littlekey 2y agoIt's a very real issue. The main problem is that Coca Cola basically took over the whole country. In my experience you can't find a dinner table without a liter bottle of coke or processed juice. I've gotten strange reactions when asking for water, it's just not done most of the time. The other factor is that because they (and Nestlé I think) use up so much of the water supply to produce their drinks in the first place, it drives up the price of water in those areas to such an extent that you "might as well" just buy soda.
- MRMsys 2y agoNuclear desalination. We could have had this decades ago, the real atoms for peace dividend. The boomers are stupid though, and the fact that the world has freshwater shortages and we have to consider carbon emissions (to whatever degree it will be a problem) from electricity generation is entirely their fault. And they are still squandering this gift.