9 ms·

Video game workers in North America now have an industry-wide union

412 points by ksec 2y ago

toomuchtodo 2y ago
United Videogame Workers-CWA (UVW-CWA) https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/video-game-workers-launch-industry-wide-union-communications-workers-america https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/video-game-workers-launc...
dtagames 2y ago
This is fantastic news and something we need very much! When my studio was closed and 36 of us fired without notice 7 months ago, I poked around at union options and was shocked to find they were only inside individual studios, not even across whole companies, much less across the industry. The games industry is 100 years behind film and music in standardizing contracts, roles, and rights (including IP rights for failed projects). This initiative gives us a chance to fix it!
- dontlaugh 2y ago
  That does depend on laws in your particular country. In the UK, you can be join the national union even if you are the only one in your workplace. Typically union recognition within a particular workplace comes later after sufficient numbers join.
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  The churn rate in the gaming studios is usually abnormally high. Most key talent often breaks off into their own indie studios, and while budgets wont be spectacular AAA level... the content usually offers better quality fun, and the artists aren't burned out in 6 months. The film and TV production situation is nothing to aspire toward... especially if you are a contractor. It never lead to more stable work for the crews, and became a feast or famine type seasonal working arrangement for many. Unions are better than none, as at least your crew actually gets paid by some rat-fink production manager that often disappeared on wrap. Best of luck, and some of the best talent I've met was shafted by a AAA studio at least once in their career (often for some really bizarre reasons.) =3
- smeeger 2y ago
  companies with unions are a hundred years behind companies that run efficiently and do what they are supposed to instead of acting as a playing piece in the game of politics and union corruption. nobody ever talks about the fact that unions in america are corrupt… unions in germany aren't corrupt and germans can build bridges still. we can barely manage it without hiring foreign firms… stop worshiping unions its part of the problem
  - officeplant 2y ago
    Unions and the labor laws they helped create save American lives. Unfortunately American companies have been upset about this for decades and fight it at every level. Including lobbying laws into places preventing industry strikes. Thus leaving us far behind countries with properly working unions like Germany as you mentioned.
    - jisnsm 2y ago
      Yes, unions at video game studios are bound to save so many lives. In other words your comment is hyperbolic and does not apply to the topic at hand.
      - crooked-v 2y ago
        Given the pattern of video game studios unceremoniously laying off people the second a game is complete and how health care in the US is overwhelmingly tied to employment, it's extremely plausible that somebody somewhere has died from lack of collective bargaining power. If it hasn't happened, that's most likely because people just leave the video game industry before they actually need those health care benefits.
      - officeplant 2y ago
        >Yes, unions at video game studios are bound to save so many lives. Stress & constant overtime crunch culture will absolutely be a detriment on the health and wellbeing of workers in any industry. Again, labor laws saved lives in the past, they can save and/or benefit lives today. >In other words your comment is hyperbolic and does not apply to the topic at hand. Welcome to the topic at hand.
- dreadlordbone 2y ago
  I don't understand. If a company closes, how is a union supposed to help?
  - alexathrowawa9 2y ago
    Can a union force a company to continue a project if the company decides to cancel it?
    - wickedsickeune 2y ago
      Yes. But it can more reasonably force the company to retain the employees of said project, and move them to other projects instead of firing them.
    - munk-a 2y ago
      Unions are a bargaining tool that can theoretically advocate for anything - it's more useful generally to talk about what they usually do. Generally unions focus on employee rights and will only organize for specific business policies if it is causing obvious harm to the company and employees. I'd only expect a union to force a project to be continued if it was being canceled for silly reasons (internal company politics and similar) but usually simply moving the workforce to another project would be sufficient.
  - banannaise 2y ago
    Ideally the union wants to deal with the larger entity that controls the studio. Presumably, the studio did not go out of business; rather, it was shut down by its parent company.
  - gopher_space 2y ago
    One of the benefits to having a labor representative in top-level planning is as a sanity check. Harder to tank your own company if you have feedback loops in place.
- Ferret7446 2y ago
  How is this fantastic news in an industry that is on fire and collapsing? The US (and more generally Western) gaming industry is getting obliterated by Asian studios. I doubt a union (pre-supposing this is a union, which it is not) would help US studios be more competitive. A union doesn't help you if your company, or entire industry, goes bankrupt.
  - PeterStuer 2y ago
    The US game industry seems to be collapsing because they do not offer the customers what they want. Treating employees in the industry fair might not change this, but should be beneficial to them regardless, unless it would make the misalignment of the product offer even worse which is entirely possible.
    - 93po 2y ago
      it doesn’t give consumers what they want—it just targets a small subset willing to spend the most money.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        unions aren't directly about consumers. Why argue this angle? Consumers don't get games if devs don't exist. >it just targets a small subset willing to spend the most money. people with money aren't worried about getting laid off. Quite the contrary.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    The big studios aren't suffering in the same way the laid off employees are. Their numbers aren't rising at pandemic level and they decide to panic. They aren't shuttering anytime soon. Asia isn't really booming either. At least if you compare to western studios. Japan had decades of a stangant economy and are coming out of a recession. Any kind of growth is a gold mine for them. China is a minefield as well economically. > I doubt a union (pre-supposing this is a union, which it is not) would help US studios be more competitive. It's not about competition, it's about protecting your livliehood so you don't get sacked to make an earnings call look a smidgen better.
joemazerino 2y ago
[flagged]
- imadethis 2y ago
  The union isn't officially launched yet, the talk is at 15:30 Pacific (six hours from now). Even if you can directly tie the quality of AAA games to if the workers who make them are unionized or not, I think it's a little premature to dismiss these efforts.
  - diggan 2y ago
    If anything, parent should make the opposite argument. AAA games are shit and been for some time, hopefully unions could make people focus on quality rather than just trying to keep their job after shipping the last game. But jokes aside, quality of AAA games is probably because money runs the development of those today, unlikely to change in the short-term.
- malcolmgreaves 2y ago
  Agreed. However, that has nothing to do with this news. Poor quality in games is what you get when you have investors that care more about a new Fortnite clone raking in money via micro transactions versus a quality game made by good workers.
- periodjet 2y ago
  [dead]
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Sturgeon's law: 90% of everything is crap. Most AAA games are, and have always been crap. But we only remember the rare gems from yesteryear that weren't crap. 5 years from now you'll look fondly on the games from 2025 because a couple will have stuck with you and you'll have long since dropped the rest.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    That doesn't mean there haven't been shifts in the industry. Microtransactions, skyrocketing budgets, etc. Games in the 90s weren't selling you a skin for $10 or getting A-list actors to do the voices.
khrbrt 2y ago
This is the first I've heard of "direct-join union"s. DuckDuckGo only brings up variations of this article, or the pages to join individual, employer specific unions. Where can I learn more about this type of union? Is there one for US IT workers?
- diggan 2y ago
  Seems the full name is "Directly affiliated local union" (or "federal labor union") unless I'm mistaken: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directly_affiliated_local_union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directly_affiliated_local_unio...
bsimpson 2y ago
Sounds like an effort of the CWA, who is also behind the efforts to unionize Google, the Apple Stores, Mapbox, the NY Times, NPR, and the gaming companies mentioned at the bottom of the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CODE-CWA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CODE-CWA
- smeeger 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - iugtmkbdfil834 2y ago
    I mean, historically speaking you are not wrong, but you lose some points over broadcasting information. That already has been and is being done now so, the argument goes, why not at least be well compensated in the process?
tekla 2y ago
Who cares? A union doesn't stop the fact that high budget games just kinda suck. Layoffs happen because these games bomb over and over and over and money runs out.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  What makes you think they just kinda suck?
  - tekla 2y ago
    What is the last game you can think of that has the cultural impact of the Halo 3 release?
    - Etheryte 2y ago
      This is a common phenomenon, but I forget what it's called. Everyone thinks the golden age of whatever was when they grew up with it and it's never been quite the same ever since. Doesn't make it true though.
      - tekla 2y ago
        OK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_gam... How many modern games are there on this list?
        diggan 2y ago
        Almost half of the games on that list launched after 2010, 6 of those being after 2020. Not sure what qualifies a "modern game", but after 2010 would probably be where I personally draw the line. The most recent game on that list is from 2023, maybe it just takes time before a game end up on that list? Baldurs Gate 3 was beyond mainstream popular at one point, and surely will end up that list sooner or later, but maybe it's still too early?
Aurornis 2y ago
> This is a direct-join union, meaning that workers can sign up on their own. This allows folks to bypass traditional unionization processes like elections and employer consent. Good reminder that the word "union" is overloaded and doesn't always mean what you might assume. People who join a union like this don't have union representation or union contracts with companies. They rely on individual members to take action in various forms within there own companies. In theory they could call for a strike and ask everyone who is a member to strike from their respective companies, but in practice it's more about raising awareness and making noise in hopes of driving change. So while technically it's a union, it's not comparable to what most people think of as a union in the United States.
- deadbabe 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - diggan 2y ago
    Not quite, this is what themselves say about the structure: > A direct-join union means that UVW-CWA does not represent a single workplace, but rather, anyone in the video game industry. This differs from other union models, which organize workers in a single company or even a specific department or office. This means UVW-CWA seeks to make change directly through worker power and public leverage against the companies of our industry without the limitations of traditional labor law and collective bargaining rights. > Historically, workers in the U.S. and Canada organized their unions this way until their efforts resulted in the codified labor law we know today in the United States. Other countries also utilize direct-join unionism! [...] By being direct-join, UVW-CWA is able to grow more easily, have a wider base of membership, and is not limited to the constraints of the certification process. https://uvw-cwa.org/faq https://uvw-cwa.org/faq So while it's true it doesn't have the typical benefits of another form of union, it doesn't seem useless at all. Biggest benefit is that exploited people get used to organizing together for a common cause, this will have a far wider impact than just in the video game industry.
    - deadbabe 2y ago
charcircuit 2y ago
Looking at their website, it has obvious socialism / communism design influences. I hope these activists fail to get a foothold in the industry. These are not the type of people I want to work with and it would be bad for the stock price.
- frakt0x90 2y ago
  Most people joining unions are concerned about horrible working conditions and lack of basic respect and rights. The stock price should not be put above basic decency.
  - Vaslo 2y ago
    Source?
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      corollary: who is joining a union to pump their stock price? This is all opinionistic, but use a bit of logic here. Ask yourself what a union is and what the incentives are.
  - short_sells_poo 2y ago
    It is truly amazing how violently certain people want to fight against their own rights and organizations whose purpose is to fight for those rights.
    - ThrowawayR2 2y ago
      Workers in industries where there's an oversupply of labor driving down wages want unions. Workers in industries where there's an undersupply of labor don't care because there's no benefit to them. What's amazing about that?
      - mullingitover 2y ago
        Unions in the past century were strongest when there was a chronic labor shortage. Somewhere around the 1970s the labor shortage ended, and that's also about the time that union power began a serious decline. Negotiating solo against a large organization with an available labor pool is the weakest possible position, even if the type of talent is in demand. I'd argue that people always want the power in compensation negotiations that's only obtainable by forming strong associations. It's just a matter of whether they can get it or not based on the political power of their counterparties. This type of conflict has been happening since the dawn of civilization.
YesBox 2y ago
Just my opinion. I have no experience working in the industry _for someone else_. I am, however, working on my own game (3+ years). I'm not a believer in poor work environments, as I don't think that environment maximizes creative output. I know what it's like working with less than 7 hours of sleep, or sitting in front of a screen hours on end. It dulls the mind. It's like being half alive. All that said: A hit based industry is not one that provides stability. I cant think of how slapping a union on top of an unstable foundation is going to solve anything. I've heard a couple people who crossed over from the film industry say it's just going to turn most roles into contracts (just like the film industry), and will quickly filter out the unskilled and less driven people. There isn't really a solution to this. Market pressure keep the prices of games down. Funding gets a better bang for buck by investing in up and coming countries (e.g. Poland). Most qualified[1] games don't even break a million. Hitting [just!] $150,000 in revenue is when Steam starts seriously promoting your game[2]. $150K is not even enough to live in a coastal city (after dev. costs), never mind hiring people. [1] The dev had the intent to market _and_ sell a legitimate product, which is the minority of games on steam. [2] howtomarketagame.com
- jmyeet 2y ago
  > I cant think of how slapping a union on top of an already unstable foundation is going to solve anything You mean like the entire television and film industry? Any production over a certain (small) size is completely unionized. It's so massively successful the American cultural exports dominate in almost every corner of the world. I'm not sure where the idea that unions can't work for the games industry comes from since it's almost identical to the film and TV industry. Unions exist so workers don't get exploited and to provide stability. What about Nintendo? They famously have very limited layoffs. They see value in providing stability and maintaing culture and institutional memory. If anything, it's short-term profit-seeking that destroys industries. You see this in the world of original content production for streamers. They cut the size of writers rooms. They tried to no longer have writers on set. There's a push for "mini writing rooms". Why? Because it cuts costs on a very short term basis. In doing so, Netflix (etc) are intentionally throwing away the model that created billion dollar properties like Friends, Seinfeld, ER, MASH, Cheers, etc that, to this day, generate massive profits. Seinfeld was known for getting over a million viewers when it was running in syndication. Long-term it creates problems. Future products and showrunners are writers who need to get experience on set. Shortsighted cost-reudction is literally killing the future of the industry. As for the price of video games, there are several aspects to this: 1. AAA publishers like to complain that games still cost $60 after years. That's true but also the distribution is significantly higher than it was 20 years ago. You're selling way more games; 2. The marginal cost of producing a game via download is essentially zero; and 3. Games eventaully get much cheaper on Steam. That's a good thing. Early experiments with this showed that selling a game cheap on Steam could generate significantly more revenue than the original release. And because the marginal cost is zero, it's all profit.
TaurenHunter 2y ago
Gamergate II loading...
wetpaws 2y ago
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stealthlogic 2y ago
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egypturnash 2y ago
WOOOO
deleted 2y ago
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ineedaj0b 2y ago
looking at the games US workers have put out... this is only gonna make 'western' games worse. US games are in a tremendous slump of quality and seem to be slop factories rn. Add in unions, I don't know. I don't see this helping the slop factories become not slop factories.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  how about slop factories that don't abuse workers as a start? do people ordered to make bad games deserved to be treated like slop?
wnevets 2y ago
Kind of surprising it has taken this long for such little progress, video game workers have been abused by these mega corporations for decades [1]. [1] https://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/274.html https://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/274.html
brettpro 2y ago
If Ashly Burch isn't on board, I'm not on board. Look to who is benefiting. Do you see any names you recognize? Anybody you love to hear? If you want to hear, see, mocap them more make sure they are on board before your declare a side. Edit: typo
bentt 2y ago
25 years in the game industry. This is worth a try. I would rather see individuals derisked more so they can be creative and happy. This may mean top performers make less and crappy workers don’t leave fast enough. It is worth the risk of that. The studios have been irresponsible since video games became an investment vehicle. Pendulum needs to swing back. Fwiw I have been indie for 10 years so this would not benefit me.
blacktits69 2y ago
yeah they make stolen game concepts and then shadowban me and psychologically torture me to play with fucking losers

412 points by ksec 2y ago

United Videogame Workers-CWA (UVW-CWA) https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/video-game-workers-launch-industry-wide-union-communications-workers-america https://cwa-union.org/news/releases/video-game-workers-launc...

dtagames 2y ago

This is fantastic news and something we need very much! When my studio was closed and 36 of us fired without notice 7 months ago, I poked around at union options and was shocked to find they were only inside individual studios, not even across whole companies, much less across the industry. The games industry is 100 years behind film and music in standardizing contracts, roles, and rights (including IP rights for failed projects). This initiative gives us a chance to fix it!

dontlaugh 2y ago
That does depend on laws in your particular country. In the UK, you can be join the national union even if you are the only one in your workplace. Typically union recognition within a particular workplace comes later after sufficient numbers join.
Joel_Mckay 2y ago
The churn rate in the gaming studios is usually abnormally high. Most key talent often breaks off into their own indie studios, and while budgets wont be spectacular AAA level... the content usually offers better quality fun, and the artists aren't burned out in 6 months. The film and TV production situation is nothing to aspire toward... especially if you are a contractor. It never lead to more stable work for the crews, and became a feast or famine type seasonal working arrangement for many. Unions are better than none, as at least your crew actually gets paid by some rat-fink production manager that often disappeared on wrap. Best of luck, and some of the best talent I've met was shafted by a AAA studio at least once in their career (often for some really bizarre reasons.) =3
smeeger 2y ago
companies with unions are a hundred years behind companies that run efficiently and do what they are supposed to instead of acting as a playing piece in the game of politics and union corruption. nobody ever talks about the fact that unions in america are corrupt… unions in germany aren't corrupt and germans can build bridges still. we can barely manage it without hiring foreign firms… stop worshiping unions its part of the problem
- officeplant 2y ago
  Unions and the labor laws they helped create save American lives. Unfortunately American companies have been upset about this for decades and fight it at every level. Including lobbying laws into places preventing industry strikes. Thus leaving us far behind countries with properly working unions like Germany as you mentioned.
  - jisnsm 2y ago
    Yes, unions at video game studios are bound to save so many lives. In other words your comment is hyperbolic and does not apply to the topic at hand.
    - crooked-v 2y ago
      Given the pattern of video game studios unceremoniously laying off people the second a game is complete and how health care in the US is overwhelmingly tied to employment, it's extremely plausible that somebody somewhere has died from lack of collective bargaining power. If it hasn't happened, that's most likely because people just leave the video game industry before they actually need those health care benefits.
    - officeplant 2y ago
      >Yes, unions at video game studios are bound to save so many lives. Stress & constant overtime crunch culture will absolutely be a detriment on the health and wellbeing of workers in any industry. Again, labor laws saved lives in the past, they can save and/or benefit lives today. >In other words your comment is hyperbolic and does not apply to the topic at hand. Welcome to the topic at hand.
dreadlordbone 2y ago
I don't understand. If a company closes, how is a union supposed to help?
- alexathrowawa9 2y ago
  Can a union force a company to continue a project if the company decides to cancel it?
  - wickedsickeune 2y ago
    Yes. But it can more reasonably force the company to retain the employees of said project, and move them to other projects instead of firing them.
  - munk-a 2y ago
    Unions are a bargaining tool that can theoretically advocate for anything - it's more useful generally to talk about what they usually do. Generally unions focus on employee rights and will only organize for specific business policies if it is causing obvious harm to the company and employees. I'd only expect a union to force a project to be continued if it was being canceled for silly reasons (internal company politics and similar) but usually simply moving the workforce to another project would be sufficient.
- banannaise 2y ago
  Ideally the union wants to deal with the larger entity that controls the studio. Presumably, the studio did not go out of business; rather, it was shut down by its parent company.
- gopher_space 2y ago
  One of the benefits to having a labor representative in top-level planning is as a sanity check. Harder to tank your own company if you have feedback loops in place.
Ferret7446 2y ago
How is this fantastic news in an industry that is on fire and collapsing? The US (and more generally Western) gaming industry is getting obliterated by Asian studios. I doubt a union (pre-supposing this is a union, which it is not) would help US studios be more competitive. A union doesn't help you if your company, or entire industry, goes bankrupt.
- PeterStuer 2y ago
  The US game industry seems to be collapsing because they do not offer the customers what they want. Treating employees in the industry fair might not change this, but should be beneficial to them regardless, unless it would make the misalignment of the product offer even worse which is entirely possible.
  - 93po 2y ago
    it doesn’t give consumers what they want—it just targets a small subset willing to spend the most money.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      unions aren't directly about consumers. Why argue this angle? Consumers don't get games if devs don't exist. >it just targets a small subset willing to spend the most money. people with money aren't worried about getting laid off. Quite the contrary.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  The big studios aren't suffering in the same way the laid off employees are. Their numbers aren't rising at pandemic level and they decide to panic. They aren't shuttering anytime soon. Asia isn't really booming either. At least if you compare to western studios. Japan had decades of a stangant economy and are coming out of a recession. Any kind of growth is a gold mine for them. China is a minefield as well economically. > I doubt a union (pre-supposing this is a union, which it is not) would help US studios be more competitive. It's not about competition, it's about protecting your livliehood so you don't get sacked to make an earnings call look a smidgen better.

joemazerino 2y ago

[flagged]

imadethis 2y ago
The union isn't officially launched yet, the talk is at 15:30 Pacific (six hours from now). Even if you can directly tie the quality of AAA games to if the workers who make them are unionized or not, I think it's a little premature to dismiss these efforts.
- diggan 2y ago
  If anything, parent should make the opposite argument. AAA games are shit and been for some time, hopefully unions could make people focus on quality rather than just trying to keep their job after shipping the last game. But jokes aside, quality of AAA games is probably because money runs the development of those today, unlikely to change in the short-term.
malcolmgreaves 2y ago
Agreed. However, that has nothing to do with this news. Poor quality in games is what you get when you have investors that care more about a new Fortnite clone raking in money via micro transactions versus a quality game made by good workers.
periodjet 2y ago
[dead]
bryanlarsen 2y ago
Sturgeon's law: 90% of everything is crap. Most AAA games are, and have always been crap. But we only remember the rare gems from yesteryear that weren't crap. 5 years from now you'll look fondly on the games from 2025 because a couple will have stuck with you and you'll have long since dropped the rest.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  That doesn't mean there haven't been shifts in the industry. Microtransactions, skyrocketing budgets, etc. Games in the 90s weren't selling you a skin for $10 or getting A-list actors to do the voices.

khrbrt 2y ago

This is the first I've heard of "direct-join union"s. DuckDuckGo only brings up variations of this article, or the pages to join individual, employer specific unions. Where can I learn more about this type of union? Is there one for US IT workers?

diggan 2y ago
Seems the full name is "Directly affiliated local union" (or "federal labor union") unless I'm mistaken: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directly_affiliated_local_union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directly_affiliated_local_unio...

bsimpson 2y ago

Sounds like an effort of the CWA, who is also behind the efforts to unionize Google, the Apple Stores, Mapbox, the NY Times, NPR, and the gaming companies mentioned at the bottom of the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CODE-CWA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CODE-CWA

smeeger 2y ago
[flagged]
- iugtmkbdfil834 2y ago
  I mean, historically speaking you are not wrong, but you lose some points over broadcasting information. That already has been and is being done now so, the argument goes, why not at least be well compensated in the process?

tekla 2y ago

Who cares? A union doesn't stop the fact that high budget games just kinda suck. Layoffs happen because these games bomb over and over and over and money runs out.

lenerdenator 2y ago
What makes you think they just kinda suck?
- tekla 2y ago
  What is the last game you can think of that has the cultural impact of the Halo 3 release?
  - Etheryte 2y ago
    This is a common phenomenon, but I forget what it's called. Everyone thinks the golden age of whatever was when they grew up with it and it's never been quite the same ever since. Doesn't make it true though.
    - tekla 2y ago
      OK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_gam... How many modern games are there on this list?
      - diggan 2y ago
        Almost half of the games on that list launched after 2010, 6 of those being after 2020. Not sure what qualifies a "modern game", but after 2010 would probably be where I personally draw the line. The most recent game on that list is from 2023, maybe it just takes time before a game end up on that list? Baldurs Gate 3 was beyond mainstream popular at one point, and surely will end up that list sooner or later, but maybe it's still too early?

Aurornis 2y ago

> This is a direct-join union, meaning that workers can sign up on their own. This allows folks to bypass traditional unionization processes like elections and employer consent. Good reminder that the word "union" is overloaded and doesn't always mean what you might assume. People who join a union like this don't have union representation or union contracts with companies. They rely on individual members to take action in various forms within there own companies. In theory they could call for a strike and ask everyone who is a member to strike from their respective companies, but in practice it's more about raising awareness and making noise in hopes of driving change. So while technically it's a union, it's not comparable to what most people think of as a union in the United States.

deadbabe 2y ago
[flagged]
- diggan 2y ago
  Not quite, this is what themselves say about the structure: > A direct-join union means that UVW-CWA does not represent a single workplace, but rather, anyone in the video game industry. This differs from other union models, which organize workers in a single company or even a specific department or office. This means UVW-CWA seeks to make change directly through worker power and public leverage against the companies of our industry without the limitations of traditional labor law and collective bargaining rights. > Historically, workers in the U.S. and Canada organized their unions this way until their efforts resulted in the codified labor law we know today in the United States. Other countries also utilize direct-join unionism! [...] By being direct-join, UVW-CWA is able to grow more easily, have a wider base of membership, and is not limited to the constraints of the certification process. https://uvw-cwa.org/faq https://uvw-cwa.org/faq So while it's true it doesn't have the typical benefits of another form of union, it doesn't seem useless at all. Biggest benefit is that exploited people get used to organizing together for a common cause, this will have a far wider impact than just in the video game industry.
  - deadbabe 2y ago

charcircuit 2y ago

Looking at their website, it has obvious socialism / communism design influences. I hope these activists fail to get a foothold in the industry. These are not the type of people I want to work with and it would be bad for the stock price.

frakt0x90 2y ago
Most people joining unions are concerned about horrible working conditions and lack of basic respect and rights. The stock price should not be put above basic decency.
- Vaslo 2y ago
  Source?
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    corollary: who is joining a union to pump their stock price? This is all opinionistic, but use a bit of logic here. Ask yourself what a union is and what the incentives are.
- short_sells_poo 2y ago
  It is truly amazing how violently certain people want to fight against their own rights and organizations whose purpose is to fight for those rights.
  - ThrowawayR2 2y ago
    Workers in industries where there's an oversupply of labor driving down wages want unions. Workers in industries where there's an undersupply of labor don't care because there's no benefit to them. What's amazing about that?
    - mullingitover 2y ago
      Unions in the past century were strongest when there was a chronic labor shortage. Somewhere around the 1970s the labor shortage ended, and that's also about the time that union power began a serious decline. Negotiating solo against a large organization with an available labor pool is the weakest possible position, even if the type of talent is in demand. I'd argue that people always want the power in compensation negotiations that's only obtainable by forming strong associations. It's just a matter of whether they can get it or not based on the political power of their counterparties. This type of conflict has been happening since the dawn of civilization.

YesBox 2y ago

Just my opinion. I have no experience working in the industry _for someone else_. I am, however, working on my own game (3+ years). I'm not a believer in poor work environments, as I don't think that environment maximizes creative output. I know what it's like working with less than 7 hours of sleep, or sitting in front of a screen hours on end. It dulls the mind. It's like being half alive. All that said: A hit based industry is not one that provides stability. I cant think of how slapping a union on top of an unstable foundation is going to solve anything. I've heard a couple people who crossed over from the film industry say it's just going to turn most roles into contracts (just like the film industry), and will quickly filter out the unskilled and less driven people. There isn't really a solution to this. Market pressure keep the prices of games down. Funding gets a better bang for buck by investing in up and coming countries (e.g. Poland). Most qualified[1] games don't even break a million. Hitting [just!] $150,000 in revenue is when Steam starts seriously promoting your game[2]. $150K is not even enough to live in a coastal city (after dev. costs), never mind hiring people. [1] The dev had the intent to market _and_ sell a legitimate product, which is the minority of games on steam. [2] howtomarketagame.com

jmyeet 2y ago
> I cant think of how slapping a union on top of an already unstable foundation is going to solve anything You mean like the entire television and film industry? Any production over a certain (small) size is completely unionized. It's so massively successful the American cultural exports dominate in almost every corner of the world. I'm not sure where the idea that unions can't work for the games industry comes from since it's almost identical to the film and TV industry. Unions exist so workers don't get exploited and to provide stability. What about Nintendo? They famously have very limited layoffs. They see value in providing stability and maintaing culture and institutional memory. If anything, it's short-term profit-seeking that destroys industries. You see this in the world of original content production for streamers. They cut the size of writers rooms. They tried to no longer have writers on set. There's a push for "mini writing rooms". Why? Because it cuts costs on a very short term basis. In doing so, Netflix (etc) are intentionally throwing away the model that created billion dollar properties like Friends, Seinfeld, ER, MASH, Cheers, etc that, to this day, generate massive profits. Seinfeld was known for getting over a million viewers when it was running in syndication. Long-term it creates problems. Future products and showrunners are writers who need to get experience on set. Shortsighted cost-reudction is literally killing the future of the industry. As for the price of video games, there are several aspects to this: 1. AAA publishers like to complain that games still cost $60 after years. That's true but also the distribution is significantly higher than it was 20 years ago. You're selling way more games; 2. The marginal cost of producing a game via download is essentially zero; and 3. Games eventaully get much cheaper on Steam. That's a good thing. Early experiments with this showed that selling a game cheap on Steam could generate significantly more revenue than the original release. And because the marginal cost is zero, it's all profit.

TaurenHunter 2y ago

Gamergate II loading...

wetpaws 2y ago

[dead]

stealthlogic 2y ago

[dead]

egypturnash 2y ago

WOOOO

deleted 2y ago

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ineedaj0b 2y ago

looking at the games US workers have put out... this is only gonna make 'western' games worse. US games are in a tremendous slump of quality and seem to be slop factories rn. Add in unions, I don't know. I don't see this helping the slop factories become not slop factories.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
how about slop factories that don't abuse workers as a start? do people ordered to make bad games deserved to be treated like slop?

wnevets 2y ago

Kind of surprising it has taken this long for such little progress, video game workers have been abused by these mega corporations for decades [1]. [1] https://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/274.html https://ea-spouse.livejournal.com/274.html

brettpro 2y ago

If Ashly Burch isn't on board, I'm not on board. Look to who is benefiting. Do you see any names you recognize? Anybody you love to hear? If you want to hear, see, mocap them more make sure they are on board before your declare a side. Edit: typo

bentt 2y ago

25 years in the game industry. This is worth a try. I would rather see individuals derisked more so they can be creative and happy. This may mean top performers make less and crappy workers don’t leave fast enough. It is worth the risk of that. The studios have been irresponsible since video games became an investment vehicle. Pendulum needs to swing back. Fwiw I have been indie for 10 years so this would not benefit me.

blacktits69 2y ago

yeah they make stolen game concepts and then shadowban me and psychologically torture me to play with fucking losers