8 ms·

'It's a Heist': Real Federal Auditors Are Horrified by Doge

133 points by mdhb 2y ago

taylodl 2y ago
They're not CPAs, they have zero auditing experience, and the federal government is one of the largest entities on Earth. What could possibly go wrong? It's insane that the Republican Congress allows this to continue, but here we are. From now on, whenever you hear "DOGE did this" or "DOGE did that", or "Trump did this" or "Trump did that" - just remember they're doing it with the blessings of this Republican Congress, because they can put a stop to this at any time of their choosing.
- thrance 2y ago
  Don't forget the few Democrats that voted for the Republican budget bill a few days ago and allowed it to pass. This country is fucked.
  - taylodl 2y ago
    The Democrats aren't a majority in either chamber. The power to stop Trump rests solely with the Republicans.
    - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
      True. Democrats don't have to make it easier on them, though. If the Democrats want to stop Trump, then when a Republican in Congress votes against Trump, don't vote for Trump. Let the fact that a Republican voted against Trump matter.
      - taylodl 2y ago
        I GUARANTEE the MAGAts and conservative media wouldn't blame Rand Paul for the ensuing market crash and recession. They'd blame it all on the government shutdown caused by the Democrats. This way the MAGAts are forced to wallow in their shit with no one else to blame but themselves.
    - thrance 2y ago
      They still gave the Reps enough vote to pass their godawful law, thereby "blessing" what DOGE & friends are doing to the state. Republicans alone didn't have enough vote. So far they've been showing principled opposition at best. They should be on the news/socials 24/7 exposing Republican bullshit, but you hardly hear of them. Oftentimes they're even bending the knee, like Newsom's new podcast whose first guests were Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon. A masterclass in dick sucking if I've ever seen one. I'd expect better from the opposition than to sit on their asses all day claiming "but what can be done?". They should easily win the battle of ideas but instead they are still losing popularity, and are even lower that the party that's doing illegal shit everyday and throwed the country in a recession in less than a fucking month. You defending them is doing a disservice to everyone.
      - chneu 2y ago
        Dems were in a no-win situation. If the govt shut down then repubs could put everything they want to ax on the table and hold the entire govt hostage repeatedly on every individual issue. If they don't allow repubs to hold the govt hostage they're traitors. No winning for Dems in that situation besides grandstanding, which only works if Dems are united and they aren't. Right now the dem strategy seems to be to let Republicans do whatever they want and see how bad it gets in the hope that voters reject Republicans next time around.
        thrance 2y ago
        Everyone wanted the democrat to let the shutdown happen, according to the polls. That could have given them bargaining power. But the republicans found enough traitors to vote for their law with no debate whatsoever. As I mentioned in my previous comment (did you read it?) that strategy of doing nothing doesn't work, as they are losing popularity faster than the republicans. People see them idling and smiling while the GOP destroys the country and they don't like that, at all.
        taylodl 2y ago
        The same polls that said Kamala was going to win the election? No, chneu is right. We know the stock market is crashing, and a recession is coming. No point giving the Republicans a government shutdown as an excuse. The Democrats have simply forced the Republicans to lay in the bed they've made. After all, Trump keeps saying he has a mandate, right? Let the voters experience the consequence of their vote. Things have to get worse before they're going to be able to get better.
- bink 2y ago
  Not only that but they're feeding all of this data into their "AI" and letting it make the decisions on hiring/firing and cutting programs, as well as detecting "fraud". They're absolute charlatans.
jmclnx 2y ago
Yes, it is theft of the US Treasury, pure and simple. DOGE is salivating to get their hands on the Social Security Trust Fund, a fund all US people paid into over the past ~80 years.
- richwater 2y ago
  The sooner we can get America off of relying on Social Security and into a real investment program, the better. SS is literally a ponzi scheme disguised as a social insurance program. Everyone would be much better off if you were forced to invest the same amount of money into a personal 401k and some % of returns was skimmed off to be redistributed to low income earners. At least then we'd all be honest about what the programs goals are and how much money is redistributed.
  - tehjoker 2y ago
    This is a crazed scheme from wall street. No thanks.
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    You're doing that thing where you are creating a plausible justification of their goals and methods that they have not in fact presented and that is not real. The fact that someone could have a good reason for wanting to change social security does not mean that musk does, or that any good result can come from this one. They are doing this illegally, these are crimes. Stop propagandizing in support of them.
  - michaelsshaw 2y ago
    The money is redistributed from your pocket, via taxes, to the pockets of primarily billionaires who don't need more money.
    - richwater 2y ago
      Social Security payout is the same whether you make $176,100 a year or $50 million a year.
droptablemain 2y ago
Are these the same auditors that led to U.S. citizens' tax dollars funding transgender surgery shops in India? Two million dollars to understand the psychological effects of losing rock-paper-scissors? If so I don't put too much stock in their opinions.
- tehjoker 2y ago
  these sound fine to me. what isn't fine is sending 2000 lb bombs to annihilate Gaza. EDIT: I support destroying USAID for exactly the reasons stated in the thread below. However, I think they are simply reorganizing it under the state dept. to have more executive control over its programs. I don't think that this is the main target of their cuts tbh. I think they are eyeing social security and medicaid.
  - readthenotes1 2y ago
    Or, presumably, allowing foreign governments to kidnap or kill US citizens without repercussions?
  - CaptWillard 2y ago
    Well, if the bombs bother you, wait until you hear about the string of destabilizing efforts in support of color revolu ... Er, I mean "capacity building" in support of "democracy" via hundreds of oxymoronic NGOs. Anyway, that's where the majority of cuts are being made, and why we're seeing such pushback, including here.
- GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
  Two million dollars? Conservatively less than a penny per taxpayer? This is what you’re worried about?
- sanderjd 2y ago
  No.
jaimsam 2y ago
Weird how so many techies cannot fathom how a business-as-usual approach to cutting government waste is not going to work anymore. We literally have to bring out AIs and geniuses to unravel the mess of government fraud, waste, and abuse because of how complex and opaque it is -- and then blame them for not having the "right credentials". As an ex-military person, still working for this broken Federal government, I say: lead, follow, or GTFO the way to those who just want to cling to this broken system.
- rat87 2y ago
  So you want incompetent corrupt people to undermine and sabotage our government? Why? As for fraud and waste those are core parts of DOGE. They literally fired the people in charge of going after corruption
- chneu 2y ago
  Govt is confusing so let's let unqualified idiots be in charge of unconfusing it. Yeah, that makes total sense.
isoprophlex 2y ago
Without paywall: https://archive.ph/sJcvp https://archive.ph/sJcvp I hope this stays up and we can have some quality discussion about what is ostensibly a historical moment in time: the autophagy of a formerly democratic government. Long term (and short term, looking at the stock market) this can't be good for business right?! Who benefits?
- thrance 2y ago
  Only the, like, top 5 people by wealth in the country. Which coincidentally are the ones holding power today.
  - sanderjd 2y ago
    They don't benefit though! This is bad for them too! Elon Musk is way poorer today than he was on inauguration day. What's going on right now is, truly, only good for nations that benefit from a week United States. But that realization is not (yet) evenly distributed.
    - MattPalmer1086 2y ago
      They do benefit a lot. They may have a smaller amount of money relative to what they could have had, but they have a LOT more power than they had before.
      - sanderjd 2y ago
        If the comment had said "the five most powerful people", I wouldn't have quibbled with it. But the overlap between the richest and the most powerful is not perfect, and the rich people outside that overlap are gonna be pissed.
        AlecSchueler 2y ago
        But they will become considerably less rich while beconing no more powerful.
devwastaken 2y ago
if the “proper way” was effective we wouldnt be here. theres deep rooted careers propping up the corruption. the fed can no longer be allowed to indebt every citizen for the “greater good”. have to face the reality of numbers.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bilbo0s 2y ago
  Actually auditors do allow you to face the reality of numbers. Of course, historically speaking, kleptocratic conservatives and liberals then promptly ignore the auditors and keep doing whatever they please. Now in this case, the kleptocrats are just cutting out the auditors altogether since they had no intention to face the reality of numbers in the first place. The honesty and openness with which this particular group of kleptocrats approach the practice of their corruption is praiseworthy in a certain sense. /s
- Muromec 2y ago
  >if the “proper way” was effective we wouldnt be here Music of l'internationale start's playing. This is supposed to be the conservative party of the status quo, procedures and caution right?
- rat87 2y ago
  I mean doge is a literal corruption scheme to fire honest bueracrats and replace them with incompetent supporters. Its the return of the corrupt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system It has nothing to do with reality of numbers and regularly lies and makes shit up
tehjoker 2y ago
Regan and Clinton already cut everything to the bone (aside from the military), so everything Doge is doing is just gimmicks to justify going after important programs like medicaid and social security because the conservative project is to return the united states to the 1890s.
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  Even the military. 1990s military cuts were pretty severe and set us up for some of the profiteering that happened during Iraq and Afghanistan by private companies.
  - bb88 2y ago
    No-bid sole-source contracts.
pessimizer 2y ago
The "Real Federal Auditors" should go on a game show and play against the "Real Billionaires."
alldayeveryday 2y ago
[dead]
readthenotes1 2y ago
Doge isn't out uo audit, afaict, it's out to stop spending. The US economy is more dependent on government spending now than just about any time in its history, and that should worry anyone
russellbeattie 2y ago
This article is completely missing the point (as intended). DOGE has nothing to do with money or "efficiency". It's a pure ideological dismantling of the Federal government aimed at eliminating oversight, regulations, assistance and entitlements as envisioned by ultra-conservatives for decades. This isn't speculation, it's specifically laid out in their published plans: By hobbling or outright eliminating federal agencies responsible for executing the laws passed by Congress, the administration can circumvent the democratic process and impose their extreme vision of limited government on the country, regardless of popular support. The U.S. system of government relies on established norms as much as it does law. Conservatives realized that they can ignore precedent with impunity if they had an executive willing to do so. They then spelled out exactly how, and are now enacting that plan. SCOTUS's most recent decision that only Congress can hold the President legally accountable means executive power is essentially unchecked if the legislature is unwilling or unable to Impeach and convict. This decision turbo boosted the conservative agenda, since the president can now also confidently ignore the law and judicial orders as well, knowing there is little to no legal risk. DOGE is just the first of many similar efforts to come to permanently alter how our country works modeled on the right wing worldview. (The fact that all this just so happens to benefit Russia after their decade long campaign to destabilize their opponents in the West is a topic for speculation.)

133 points by mdhb 2y ago

They're not CPAs, they have zero auditing experience, and the federal government is one of the largest entities on Earth. What could possibly go wrong? It's insane that the Republican Congress allows this to continue, but here we are. From now on, whenever you hear "DOGE did this" or "DOGE did that", or "Trump did this" or "Trump did that" - just remember they're doing it with the blessings of this Republican Congress, because they can put a stop to this at any time of their choosing.

thrance 2y ago
Don't forget the few Democrats that voted for the Republican budget bill a few days ago and allowed it to pass. This country is fucked.
- taylodl 2y ago
  The Democrats aren't a majority in either chamber. The power to stop Trump rests solely with the Republicans.
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    True. Democrats don't have to make it easier on them, though. If the Democrats want to stop Trump, then when a Republican in Congress votes against Trump, don't vote for Trump. Let the fact that a Republican voted against Trump matter.
    - taylodl 2y ago
      I GUARANTEE the MAGAts and conservative media wouldn't blame Rand Paul for the ensuing market crash and recession. They'd blame it all on the government shutdown caused by the Democrats. This way the MAGAts are forced to wallow in their shit with no one else to blame but themselves.
  - thrance 2y ago
    They still gave the Reps enough vote to pass their godawful law, thereby "blessing" what DOGE & friends are doing to the state. Republicans alone didn't have enough vote. So far they've been showing principled opposition at best. They should be on the news/socials 24/7 exposing Republican bullshit, but you hardly hear of them. Oftentimes they're even bending the knee, like Newsom's new podcast whose first guests were Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon. A masterclass in dick sucking if I've ever seen one. I'd expect better from the opposition than to sit on their asses all day claiming "but what can be done?". They should easily win the battle of ideas but instead they are still losing popularity, and are even lower that the party that's doing illegal shit everyday and throwed the country in a recession in less than a fucking month. You defending them is doing a disservice to everyone.
    - chneu 2y ago
      Dems were in a no-win situation. If the govt shut down then repubs could put everything they want to ax on the table and hold the entire govt hostage repeatedly on every individual issue. If they don't allow repubs to hold the govt hostage they're traitors. No winning for Dems in that situation besides grandstanding, which only works if Dems are united and they aren't. Right now the dem strategy seems to be to let Republicans do whatever they want and see how bad it gets in the hope that voters reject Republicans next time around.
      - thrance 2y ago
        Everyone wanted the democrat to let the shutdown happen, according to the polls. That could have given them bargaining power. But the republicans found enough traitors to vote for their law with no debate whatsoever. As I mentioned in my previous comment (did you read it?) that strategy of doing nothing doesn't work, as they are losing popularity faster than the republicans. People see them idling and smiling while the GOP destroys the country and they don't like that, at all.
        taylodl 2y ago
        The same polls that said Kamala was going to win the election? No, chneu is right. We know the stock market is crashing, and a recession is coming. No point giving the Republicans a government shutdown as an excuse. The Democrats have simply forced the Republicans to lay in the bed they've made. After all, Trump keeps saying he has a mandate, right? Let the voters experience the consequence of their vote. Things have to get worse before they're going to be able to get better.
bink 2y ago
Not only that but they're feeding all of this data into their "AI" and letting it make the decisions on hiring/firing and cutting programs, as well as detecting "fraud". They're absolute charlatans.

jmclnx 2y ago

Yes, it is theft of the US Treasury, pure and simple. DOGE is salivating to get their hands on the Social Security Trust Fund, a fund all US people paid into over the past ~80 years.

richwater 2y ago
The sooner we can get America off of relying on Social Security and into a real investment program, the better. SS is literally a ponzi scheme disguised as a social insurance program. Everyone would be much better off if you were forced to invest the same amount of money into a personal 401k and some % of returns was skimmed off to be redistributed to low income earners. At least then we'd all be honest about what the programs goals are and how much money is redistributed.
- tehjoker 2y ago
  This is a crazed scheme from wall street. No thanks.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  You're doing that thing where you are creating a plausible justification of their goals and methods that they have not in fact presented and that is not real. The fact that someone could have a good reason for wanting to change social security does not mean that musk does, or that any good result can come from this one. They are doing this illegally, these are crimes. Stop propagandizing in support of them.
- michaelsshaw 2y ago
  The money is redistributed from your pocket, via taxes, to the pockets of primarily billionaires who don't need more money.
  - richwater 2y ago
    Social Security payout is the same whether you make $176,100 a year or $50 million a year.

droptablemain 2y ago

Are these the same auditors that led to U.S. citizens' tax dollars funding transgender surgery shops in India? Two million dollars to understand the psychological effects of losing rock-paper-scissors? If so I don't put too much stock in their opinions.

tehjoker 2y ago
these sound fine to me. what isn't fine is sending 2000 lb bombs to annihilate Gaza. EDIT: I support destroying USAID for exactly the reasons stated in the thread below. However, I think they are simply reorganizing it under the state dept. to have more executive control over its programs. I don't think that this is the main target of their cuts tbh. I think they are eyeing social security and medicaid.
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  Or, presumably, allowing foreign governments to kidnap or kill US citizens without repercussions?
- CaptWillard 2y ago
  Well, if the bombs bother you, wait until you hear about the string of destabilizing efforts in support of color revolu ... Er, I mean "capacity building" in support of "democracy" via hundreds of oxymoronic NGOs. Anyway, that's where the majority of cuts are being made, and why we're seeing such pushback, including here.
GuinansEyebrows 2y ago
Two million dollars? Conservatively less than a penny per taxpayer? This is what you’re worried about?
sanderjd 2y ago
No.

jaimsam 2y ago

Weird how so many techies cannot fathom how a business-as-usual approach to cutting government waste is not going to work anymore. We literally have to bring out AIs and geniuses to unravel the mess of government fraud, waste, and abuse because of how complex and opaque it is -- and then blame them for not having the "right credentials". As an ex-military person, still working for this broken Federal government, I say: lead, follow, or GTFO the way to those who just want to cling to this broken system.

rat87 2y ago
So you want incompetent corrupt people to undermine and sabotage our government? Why? As for fraud and waste those are core parts of DOGE. They literally fired the people in charge of going after corruption
chneu 2y ago
Govt is confusing so let's let unqualified idiots be in charge of unconfusing it. Yeah, that makes total sense.

isoprophlex 2y ago

Without paywall: https://archive.ph/sJcvp https://archive.ph/sJcvp I hope this stays up and we can have some quality discussion about what is ostensibly a historical moment in time: the autophagy of a formerly democratic government. Long term (and short term, looking at the stock market) this can't be good for business right?! Who benefits?

thrance 2y ago
Only the, like, top 5 people by wealth in the country. Which coincidentally are the ones holding power today.
- sanderjd 2y ago
  They don't benefit though! This is bad for them too! Elon Musk is way poorer today than he was on inauguration day. What's going on right now is, truly, only good for nations that benefit from a week United States. But that realization is not (yet) evenly distributed.
  - MattPalmer1086 2y ago
    They do benefit a lot. They may have a smaller amount of money relative to what they could have had, but they have a LOT more power than they had before.
    - sanderjd 2y ago
      If the comment had said "the five most powerful people", I wouldn't have quibbled with it. But the overlap between the richest and the most powerful is not perfect, and the rich people outside that overlap are gonna be pissed.
      - AlecSchueler 2y ago
        But they will become considerably less rich while beconing no more powerful.

devwastaken 2y ago

if the “proper way” was effective we wouldnt be here. theres deep rooted careers propping up the corruption. the fed can no longer be allowed to indebt every citizen for the “greater good”. have to face the reality of numbers.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bilbo0s 2y ago
Actually auditors do allow you to face the reality of numbers. Of course, historically speaking, kleptocratic conservatives and liberals then promptly ignore the auditors and keep doing whatever they please. Now in this case, the kleptocrats are just cutting out the auditors altogether since they had no intention to face the reality of numbers in the first place. The honesty and openness with which this particular group of kleptocrats approach the practice of their corruption is praiseworthy in a certain sense. /s
Muromec 2y ago
>if the “proper way” was effective we wouldnt be here Music of l'internationale start's playing. This is supposed to be the conservative party of the status quo, procedures and caution right?
rat87 2y ago
I mean doge is a literal corruption scheme to fire honest bueracrats and replace them with incompetent supporters. Its the return of the corrupt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoils_system It has nothing to do with reality of numbers and regularly lies and makes shit up

tehjoker 2y ago

Regan and Clinton already cut everything to the bone (aside from the military), so everything Doge is doing is just gimmicks to justify going after important programs like medicaid and social security because the conservative project is to return the united states to the 1890s.

Jtsummers 2y ago
Even the military. 1990s military cuts were pretty severe and set us up for some of the profiteering that happened during Iraq and Afghanistan by private companies.
- bb88 2y ago
  No-bid sole-source contracts.

pessimizer 2y ago

The "Real Federal Auditors" should go on a game show and play against the "Real Billionaires."

alldayeveryday 2y ago

[dead]

readthenotes1 2y ago

Doge isn't out uo audit, afaict, it's out to stop spending. The US economy is more dependent on government spending now than just about any time in its history, and that should worry anyone

russellbeattie 2y ago

This article is completely missing the point (as intended). DOGE has nothing to do with money or "efficiency". It's a pure ideological dismantling of the Federal government aimed at eliminating oversight, regulations, assistance and entitlements as envisioned by ultra-conservatives for decades. This isn't speculation, it's specifically laid out in their published plans: By hobbling or outright eliminating federal agencies responsible for executing the laws passed by Congress, the administration can circumvent the democratic process and impose their extreme vision of limited government on the country, regardless of popular support. The U.S. system of government relies on established norms as much as it does law. Conservatives realized that they can ignore precedent with impunity if they had an executive willing to do so. They then spelled out exactly how, and are now enacting that plan. SCOTUS's most recent decision that only Congress can hold the President legally accountable means executive power is essentially unchecked if the legislature is unwilling or unable to Impeach and convict. This decision turbo boosted the conservative agenda, since the president can now also confidently ignore the law and judicial orders as well, knowing there is little to no legal risk. DOGE is just the first of many similar efforts to come to permanently alter how our country works modeled on the right wing worldview. (The fact that all this just so happens to benefit Russia after their decade long campaign to destabilize their opponents in the West is a topic for speculation.)