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Electronic Arts Sues Zynga, Says The Ville Is An “Unmistakable Copy” Of The Sims
- atrus 14y agoI'm not sure who to root for in this case...
- michaelty 14y agoI believe it's called "casualties".
- gridaphobe 14y agoThe best possible outcome IMO would be for Facebook to back Zynga and have EA and Zynga/Facebook sue each other into oblivion :D
- ajross 14y agoZynga is vile. But they're the good guys here, without argument. The idea that you can protect a game genre is nonsense, and terribly damaging. Imagine if Id sued Epic or Valve to kill Unreal and HL2? Imagine if Blizzard killed all the competing RTS? Imagine if Sony killed WoW?
- kevingadd 14y agoRead the complaint. It's about blatant, element-for-element theft of creative expression, not about claiming ownership of a game genre.
- quaunaut 14y agoThis isn't about stealing from 'The Sims' franchise. It's stealing from the Facebook game, 'The Sims Social'. It's direct, not a matter of genre copyright.
- dag11 14y agoIt's not the genre that was copied, it was the exact behavior and appearance of the game. Read this, or at least view the comparison images: http://www.scribd.com/doc/101954002/EA-v-Zynga-Complaint-Final http://www.scribd.com/doc/101954002/EA-v-Zynga-Complaint-Fin...
- ceejayoz 14y agoWow, that's pretty remarkable. They even copied the RGB values for the possible character skin tones.
- ctz 14y agoI find myself rooting for the lawyers involved on both sides, which makes me slightly uncomfortable.
- linker3000 14y agoI have an idea for a new game called 'Sue City', where you play the role of an office junior in a legal firm and have to complete tasks and make social and professional connections in order to earn promotions and eventially become a lawyer in a top corporate case involving two companies called Arpel and Sumsang. Any takers?
- dag11 14y agoThanks for the idea. By the way, have you heard of my new product, Sue Ville?
- saraid216 14y agoI'm rooting for my popcorn.
- dougabug 14y agoZynga appears to be a serial copycat: http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/24/tiny-tower-developers-call-out-zynga-for-their-look-alike-game/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/24/tiny-tower-developers-call-...
- leeskye 14y agoThey have been down this path before: http://blog.games.com/2011/02/23/mafia-wars-zynga-digital-chocolate-lawsuit/ http://blog.games.com/2011/02/23/mafia-wars-zynga-digital-ch...
- ChrisNorstrom 14y agoMany many many times: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-zynga-is-just-like-microsoft-2010-1?op=1 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-zynga-is-just-like-micros...
- rhizome 14y agoZynga has been orienting its lawyers toward this eventuality as long as EA has been waiting for them to step into their trap.
- dag11 14y agoHere's the trailer for The Ville: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXX6XvGBj4w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXX6XvGBj4w It definitely has a 'Sims' vibe to it.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- ben0x539 14y agoSo we're gonna side with Zynga on this because it is innovating by bringing The Sims to Facebook and EA is trying to block innovation with IP lawsuits here, right?
- anonymoushn 14y agoThe Sims Social was already on Facebook.
- 3am_hackernews 14y agoThe Ville was launched in June 2012[1]; the Sims Social was launched on August 9, 2011[2]. --------------- [1]http://investor.zynga.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=686775 http://investor.zynga.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=686775 [2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_Social http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_Social
- dag11 14y agoWhat does The Ville do that The Sims doesn't? Where are the aesthetics drastically different? Where do the two games behave differently. The Ville has identical behavior to The Sims Social, and strikingly similar artwork.
- jconley 14y agoYeah, but, "identical behavior" and "strikingly similar" are not Copyright violations.
- dag11 14y agoMy comment was mainly in the context of the parent comment's implied contradiction between our apparent siding with EA here, but our siding with Android in Apple v. Android.
- dangrossman 14y agoChange one word ("strikingly similar" to "substantially similar") and you have the very legal definition of a derivative work, an infringement on the original copyright (17 U.S.C. § 101).
- Reebz 14y agoFrom my perspective, a fairy tale ending would be for EA to take Zynga to the cleaners, then cut a check to every independent label that Zynga has copied off in the past, or start some sort of fund for independent game companies. EA are still going to make a few bucks, but it will help the wider community.
- Harkins 14y agoEA pay developers? Can you ask for a unicorn, too?
- corin_ 14y agoPotentially they could win enough that paying the indie devs Zinga screwed would a.) cost a small amount of their settlement from the case and b.) be epic, epic PR Don't get me wrong, I can't imagine them doing it, but there's certainly an argument for it.
- Reebz 14y agoI can't imagine them doing it either, but the PR would certainly be incredibly epic and a nod to the quality of the indie game scene. PS: My introduction of "fairy tale ending" was chosen specifically to reinforce the unlikeliness!
- samstave 14y agoYeah this should turn into a class suit for the indie dev community.
- mikeryan 14y agoOk I'm rooting for EA in this. I think Zynga's been preying on smaller developers for years in this manner. Its about time they went head to head with an 800lb gorilla.
- jconley 14y agoThis is all very reminiscent of the video game industry of the 80's, where everyone was making largely the same games and trying to figure out where they fit in the marketplace. Some lawsuits like this were successful, and others weren't. It's a tough call, though I tend to side with Zynga here. Copyright on characters, art, text, code, and logos is great. We obviously don't want direct clones. But, Copyright applied to a genre and style of gameplay is ridiculous. We wouldn't have any of the great games we have today if those things were enforceable.
- jamesu 14y agoI'm not quite sure how you could mistake The Ville for The Sims. Besides both games being set in a buildable house with interactive objects, the games are largely completely different. From what I can tell, It doesn't even simulate people. Imagine if in the 90's the makers of Dune 2 decided to sue everyone who made a game which looked like their RTS. I don't think Warcraft would have stood a chance!
- dag11 14y agoThey're suing for The Sims Social, not The Sims. In all honesty, I think the title should be edited to read 'The Sims Social' instead of 'The Sims'. They're very different games.
- Goronmon 14y agoStealing from dag11's comment below. http://www.scribd.com/doc/101954002/EA-v-Zynga-Complaint-Final http://www.scribd.com/doc/101954002/EA-v-Zynga-Complaint-Fin... I'd say that's pretty blatant copying there.
- Zimahl 14y agoYeah, ouch. At first I was thinking some of the comparisons were going to be reaching but when even the x/y scale of objects is the same, that's pretty blatant.
- cpeterso 14y agoIn "The making of Warcraft part 1", one of Warcraft's developers says they used Dune 2's art assets as "programmer art" during Warcraft 1's development: http://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/the-making-of-warcraft-part-1 http://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/the-making-of-warcraft-part-...
- powerslave12r 14y agoWonder if real life counts as prior art.
- 3am_hackernews 14y agoI think EA should also sue Zynga for its CityVille's resemblance to SimCity.
- ericdykstra 14y agoZynga is the Samwer Brothers of games. Blatant copying, element-for-element. No derivation from the original, no ethics, no shame. Zynga is a despicable company, and I have absolutely no respect for the company itself or Pincus.
- majani 14y agoNot really. The Samwer brothers may not be innovators, but they are problem solvers. They solve the very huge problem of internationalisation. Zynga doesn't solve anyone's problems. They just aim to kill/leech off competitors.
- dakrisht 14y agoI agree with your statement. Samwer bros aren't innovators by any means but they do solve internationalisation problems - no question. Good for them and I wish them success
- loceng 14y agoSo if I launch at the same time internationally, then they won't copy me - you seem to be suggesting?
- qq66 14y agoYes, if you do a good international launch, they usually won't, since there are lower-hanging fruit to pick.
- wwweston 14y agoI don't like Zynga either. My understanding is that games can't be copyrighted, though: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html
- msbarnett 14y agoBasic mechanics, no. Text and look and feel are another story, though. In this case EA is alleging that The Ville is a derivative work not because it borrows mechanics but because it meets the 'substantially similar' test by meticulously cloning the look of The Sims Social, right down to copying the exact RGB colors of specific elements.
- SeanDav 14y agoZynga got its start by blatantly copying another company's game and they haven't stopped since. If there is any justice in this world they will eventually fail horribly and go bankrupt but I am not holding my breath. Up to now they have chosen minnows who couldn't fight back but EA is a whole new ballgame.
- SeanDav 14y agoActually I just realized they can claim prior art. Zynga have been ripping off other games for so long without consequences that they can now claim this process is prior art...
- dangrossman 14y agoPrior art is a concept in patent law, not copyright law.
- SeanDav 14y agoyes I know - was just making a small joke, probably not apt as you point out!
- Karunamon 14y agoWhoever wins, we lose. Seriously. A shitty company suing a shitty company using a shitty law. It would be impossible for me to muster any less care about these two.
- saraid216 14y agoThere is popcorn and schadenfreude available at the concession stand. Would that help?
- wtracy 14y agoLet me point out that the only people EA seems to screw over are the people dumb enough to work for them. Zynga goes out and rips off independent third parties. So, I would lean toward rooting for EA on this one, but not because I like EA.
- jlgreco 14y ago"the only people EA seems to screw over are the people dumb enough to work for them." Or buy from them, but yes. They only screw you over if you choose to associate with them first.
- dusing 14y agoFrom the complaint "As demonstrated in the chart below, The Ville uses the same precise RGB values for its skin tones as does The Sims Social. There is aninfinitesimally small chance that the use of the same RGB values for skin tone in The Ville as TheSims Social is mere coincidence." Zynga could have at least tried not to make the copying so obvious.
- lotharbot 14y agoThe key argument in the complaint: "Not only does The Ville blatantly mimic the entire framework and style of gameplay in The Sims Social, but it so closely copies the original, creative expression and unique elements of The Sims Social — i.e., the animation sequences, visual arrangements, characters’ motions andactions, and other unique audio-visual elements — that the two games are nearly indistinguishable." The pages marked 17-34 in the complaint contain a number of screenshots demonstrating just to what degree the "original, creative expression" was copied. Specific colors, proportions, and even action sequences appear to be nearly identical. This is most definitely not coincidence, and (as the complaint notes on page 9-12) is common practice for Zynga.
- jf 14y agoIf you're having trouble finding the actual complaint (as I was) here it is: http://www.scribd.com/doc/101954002/EA-v-Zynga-Complaint-Final http://www.scribd.com/doc/101954002/EA-v-Zynga-Complaint-Fin...
- martywomble 14y agoThis is such a surprising claim that I had to check, and it does not appear to be true. Copy the image from the complaint into an image editor and look at the RGB values with the color tool. I looked and didn't see a single match.
- objclxt 14y agoI'm going to give EA the benefit of the doubt here, and suggest that there is almost certainly additional compression on the images from when it was converted to PDF / uploaded to Scribd. Or, to put it another way, I'm pretty sure EA has a fairly competent legal team, and you don't make such a specific claim in a filing unless you're prepared to back it up.
- Macha 14y agoSome of the stuff in the details section is pretty astounding. They've copied things as closely as the wall-height to floor size ratio. I doubt even EA thought much about that, other than selecting a size that they thought looked reasonable, yet Zynga neeeded to put effort into copying it so exactly? Why? If you're going to rip off a game, why put effort into making it so blatant? I understand Zynga even less now. My gut feeling on reading the headline was originally "Well, EA can't complain, Simcity Social was far more a Cityville clone than a continuation of Simcity", but wow, actually looking at the complaint is pretty damning for Zynga.
- jlgreco 14y agoI'm willing to bet those exact dimensions came about by someone sending an email that went something to the general effect of: "Here are some screenshots. Redraw them."
- aswanson 14y agoI wonder if their internal emails can be subpoenaed.
- jlgreco 14y agoIf they do get subpoenaed and it turns out I am right, I'm going to buy myself a beer. ;)
- aswanson 14y agoI'll spring for one brew of your choice as well.
- darkarmani 14y agoAbsolutely.
- derefr 14y agoProbably, they prototyped the game using rips of Sims assets, and as they replaced EA's art with their own they tried to keep the new elements consistent with the old ones (rather than, say, having some walls suddenly 1.3x as tall as others for no obvious reason.)
- seanoliver 14y agoI feel like Coke could probably make the same argument about Pepsi. There are plenty of examples of very similar products competing with one another in today's marketplace. It seems like EA winning this could lead to a lot of anti-competitive activity down the line.
- jconley 14y agoEA knows this type of litigation is probably a waste of time, in terms of shutting down a particular game. But, it is probably at least partially a PR stunt to drive down Zynga's flailing stock price and hurt the long term outside capital outlook for Zynga. Smart move EA.
- justjimmy 14y agoBetween choosing EA vs Zynga, I'll choose to side with the Lawyers on this one. :D
- reidmain 14y agoI'd flip a coin and then shoot myself.
- cpeterso 14y agoI wonder if this is EA's (aggressive) opening to a Zynga acquisition.
- dakrisht 14y agoThinking about this a little more in-depth now I actually can't believe that EA hasn't filed suit earlier. Maybe they were waiting and building a stronger case? Sim City was the definitive game of the late 90s - early 2000s, CityVille is a direct rip. Now with The Ville they are ripping off even more EA products. By no means do I like the direction EA has gone in the past few years, they are very poorly regarded game company with bad leadership, but their IP is blatantly being ripped off. I'm glad they're fighting back and if this goes to a jury trial, which I certainly hope it does, Zynga will be done. However, I think Zynga will most likely be taken off the NASDAQ long before a trial, their assets liquidated and the company will file for bankruptcy protection. It's a shame so many investors, VCs, and etc. invest in companies like Zynga, but they're cashing out so it's a sound investment for them.
- darkarmani 14y agoThey were waiting for the easiest case to win.
- DigitalSea 14y agoWithout-a-doubt Zynga is at fault here. Those who know the way Zynga works know this was intentional, you only have to look back on the plethora of allegations against Zynga about copying other people's games and Facebookatising them to make money. As much as I loathe EA these days, nobody should have their hard earned work ripped off like that, I hope Zynga pays dearly for this. The RGB skin colour argument alone will be the end of them.