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"My decade-old and very well-travelled Toyota Land Cruiser finally died, and I hoped my new-ish ebike could replace it." How that article sounds. I don't care

"My decade-old and very well-travelled Toyota Land Cruiser finally died, and I hoped my new-ish ebike could replace it." How that article sounds. I don't care how fancy they make them, iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work.

alabastervlog 2y ago
I see them more than laptops among actual people out in the world doing real work. Phones, too. [edit] non-office-workers, I mean.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  What is this "real work?"
  - sbuk 2y ago
    Not the Orange Site bubble...
  - h2zizzle 2y ago
    Construction, for one.
jjtheblunt 2y ago
If you're an artist who draws, I think they're serious computing devices.
- aleph_minus_one 2y ago
  > If you're an artist who draws, I think they're serious computing devices. An artist who draws might consider iPads to be serious drawing devices.
  - musicale 2y ago
    That's high praise since it's basically what Apple was going for with the iPad, getting out of your way to let you focus on the task at hand.
    - beeflet 2y ago
      the supreme art of software marketing is convice your users that even your bugs are features.
      - throwaway290 2y ago
        the supreme art of product development is understand when lack of some feature is a feature in itself
    - h2zizzle 2y ago
      WRT drawing, specifically: no, they dragged their feet on introducing a pen/stylus for years. They insisted it be a "touch-only" device (Wacom's patents on display digitizers surely did not factor in /s), which sucked for those of us who couldn't afford a Cintiq, but who had a perfectly good iPad 2 lying around. There were several valiant, if flawed, stylus efforts befor the Pencil, but with awkward connection, pressure, and power solutions, they were DOA.
      - musicale 2y ago
        Your complaint seems to be that Apple was late to the party (as they often are). I agree that early third-party styli were a pain - I used various Jot versions, which were better than nothing but not great. But the Apple pencil + Procreate is actually great, and a fulfillment of the iPad's original promise in the drawing space.
        h2zizzle 2y ago
        My complaint is that the idea that the decent drawing experience that we have now was part of Apple's master plan for the iPad is incorrect. They resisted it purposely because the iPad was never meant to be a creative device. The issue wasn't limited to visual art; people who wanted to use iPads for its other major creative application - as a music controller - had to use a number of hacks to break it out of the Garageband ghetto. The core issue is the hobbling of promising hardware because it doesn't fit the platform owner's vision.
- goblin89 2y ago
  An iPad is an interesting device. It has many uses where it is indispensable, but most of them are unknown to most people. I often see a sound engineer with an iPad on music gigs. The form factor allows you to walk around the room and adjust the sound easily to tame resonances and such. It’s not so good for typing text or programming, but where it makes sense to have a portable slab of screen that works reliably there is probably an app that does it.
  - simonask 2y ago
    Lots of musicians use iPads for their sheet music. Vastly superior to carrying around several kilograms of paper, and you can use head gestures to turn pages.
Dylan16807 2y ago
Now imagine the ebike was built on the same basic frame and had the same engine. I'd be pretty annoyed if there was some little part in there restricting its use.
akst 2y ago
Perhaps this metaphor doesn’t work in the US, where heavy vehicles are incentivised by regulation & most population centres rely on car transport. But only a few people really benefit from a full featured Toyota land cruiser. The value added of additional features not available in more affordable cars (or transport options) is low relative to the cost of other uses of the same cash. Given the ability to make a trade off for a cheaper option that meets the core transport needs without paying the premium for the features they won’t really use (or the user doesn’t value for the price they have to pay), most would probably go for the cheaper option (rapid transit or smaller more fuel efficient car). Same can be said for many features on laptops not already found on tablets. I’m not sure if you’re referring to software engineering specifically or all workflows that require computers, but I don’t think it’s that silly for most other professions to use tablets more once they provide more specialised workflows. For example, I recently went back to university and I find it easier to do revision on my iPad using the pen tool, the second best option is pen and paper but that has limitations, the 3rd is computer but that has input limitations. It may not include everyone, but I don’t think it’s so silly to think iPads and tablets will play a more prominent role in the Office in the future. That said it’s possible this will never include software engineers due to the workflow being highly dependent on features that may never be available on iPads or tablets.
onceler 2y ago
Except in this metaphor, the "ebike" has en engine as powerful as a new "landcruiser", and attachment points that could allow quickly/easily adding extra seating or cargo capacity. That such a thing seems absurd illustrates how poorly the metaphor fits. The only reason that "iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work" is because Apple chooses to limit them. I have a laptop which I only rarely use as a laptop - it moves between being connected to external monitor/keyboard/mouse in an office to being connected to external monitor/keyboard/mouse at home. I could get an iPad with a faster processor (my laptop is a few years old), that could connect to the same peripherals. The only reason it couldn't replace my laptop is because I can't run the same software on it. Now, I understand why this is so. MacOS (or any other desktop OS) would not work at all well on a tablet interface, it would take a lot of work to make it work well, and those changes would make it less well suited to desktop use. Look at Windows 8, when Microsoft tried moving their desktop OS towards something that could also work on a tablet (or phone), and how unpopular those changes were. But that doesn't mean I have to like it (or wish iPads weren't so locked down, so I could run a different OS anyway even if Apple wouldn't support it).
- davemp 2y ago
  Let’s not pretend that Apple could come up with some sort of dual windowing system (or just dual boot) scheme. We’re not limited by drive space anymore. They don’t because it would hurt macbook sales.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
    They aren't afraid of hurting MacBook sales they're afraid of breaking the app store chains. You can get software outside of the app store on the MacBook.
  - rgarrett88 2y ago
    They don't because they don't take a 30% cut of everything purchased on your MacBook.
    - tengwar2 2y ago
walterbell 2y ago
> iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work. Video conferencing work: iPad + Center Stage unmatched for portability, audio quality, integrated cellular modem. Writing work: iPad with hardware keyboard and single app mode for distraction-free writing, ergonomic screen mount. SSH work: iPad has unmatched HiDPI 4:3 screen real estate Video editing work: Lumafusion usability with M4 rendering speed, $30 one-time fee unlike subscription alternatives. 3D planning or design: vertical industry apps for iPad Pro Lidar sensor that is absent from competing tablets. Source: decade on iPads as primary device. Secondary device: Lenovo /w Linux sidecar VMs accessed from iPad. After Apple enables hypervisor API for Linux VMs on iPad, Lenovo sidecar budget can be redirected to iPad storage.
- walterbell 2y ago
  Why is this comment being downvoted?
- JimDabell 2y ago
  This is exactly right. I hate seeing so many people say that iPads aren’t for “real work”, because it’s being hugely dismissive of the real work plenty of people do every day. You don’t have to be writing a compiler for it to count as “real work” FFS. Just because it’s not suitable for your work, it doesn’t mean that the work other people do on it isn’t real work.
giancarlostoro 2y ago
Man. I thought you were joking, then I read the article. Yeah, I will never spend so much on an iPad. It's not even the same OS. I don't know why anyone would think an ebike compares to a Land Cruiser.
- bigiain 2y ago
  I dunno why anybody thinks a computer with a 10 core CPU, 10 core GPU, 16GB of RAM and a TB or two of storage is "an e-bike". None of the machines I do the work that pays my salary exceed those specs. Apart from the 16GB of RAM none of my work machines meet any of the other specs. If Apple would let me plug a couple of HDMI screens and a keyboard and mouse into a iPad, and let me run macOS (or even Linux) on it, it'd be a more capable development machine that any I've ever used.
  - DidYaWipe 2y ago
    Why don't you just get a MacBook Air then? Or a Mini?
    - goosedragons 2y ago
      MBA or Mini don't also have a touch screen and pen support. iPads are a lot more flexible in form factor than anything else Apple sells.
      - DidYaWipe 2y ago
        The stupid thing is that the oversized trackpads on Apple laptops don't support the Pencil. WTH.
    - h2zizzle 2y ago
      Reduce <-Somewhere between these two. Reuse . . Recycle -- Redundant consumption is not a virtue.
  - giancarlostoro 2y ago
gigatexal 2y ago
Exactly. The author is “using it wrong”. The iPad is an appliance much like the phone is. Get a MacBook Air and call it a day. The article is clickbait at best because everyone knows iPadOS is not as open as macOS.
- zimpenfish 2y ago
  > The article is clickbait at best To be fair, "theregister" is a big hint that you're going to be opening unsubstantiated clickbait 50% of the time (rising to 90% if it's relating to Apple.) (Also Pesce has been banging the "ipads should be computers" drum for a while - e.g. https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/23/apples_got_a_good_thing/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/23/apples_got_a_good_thi...)
  - DidYaWipe 2y ago
    Such a dumb drum. iPads are inherently unsuited to the tasks for which we pull out a computer: work requiring precision, rapid text input, or I/O.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  Absolutely. The entire "article" insults the reader by expecting him to believe such a stupid premise, or makes the author look stupid. Nobody who wants to do stuff at the command line would seriously buy a TABLET, especially not one from Apple. Pfff, downvoted by the author, twice, no doubt...
raydev 2y ago
"My decade-old and very well-travelled Toyota Land Cruiser finally died, and I bought a Land Cruiser that has the exact same body and engine but with a different steering wheel... the engine also has a limiter applied to it that prevents offroading and driving faster than 20mph. I think Toyota should remove the limiter."
dudus 2y ago
I needed a machine just to sketch some UIs in figma. I was going to get a Chromebook but my wife insisted on the iPad. I thought it could sure handle that use case, I quickly checked there was a figma app. I was expecting some quirks. A day later I returned it. Turns out that figma app for iPad can only "view" designs, not create them! I feel like there's a very narrow market for iPads. I'm surprised they still sell.
- keyle 2y ago
  They sell like hot breads for kids in school.
  - DidYaWipe 2y ago
    Who immediately 1. Turn them into toys 2. Break them 3. Lose them Gargantuan waste of money that does nothing to advance education.
    - BobaFloutist 2y ago
      I mean tablets genuinely have advantages for note-taking, I'm tempted to get one myself Recording math notes or diagrams with a keyboard just sucks, and a phone is too small.
- akst 2y ago
  Yeah I don't think I've found a good substitute for vector art. There's stuff for more expressive creative raster art with procreate, I think the capacity is there to deliver a good experience here but the first one to do it will have to solve a few problems relating into a more professional workflow and take on quite a bit of risk seeing as the consumer base (most companies) probably don't issue iPads to their employees. There's very little incentive to this when their consumer is content with existing tools.
matwood 2y ago
> iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work At the risk of invoking no true Scotsman, I think you need to define 'real' work.
- dagw 2y ago
  According the author of the article he seems to consider 'real' work is any work the requires "terminal windows, root access, and the ability to type "python" to get into a REPL".
sarmasamosarma 2y ago
[dead]
ohgr 2y ago
I have to agree here. I do a lot of written work and thinking still. If I put my “lowest common denominator user” hat on, the iPad seemed like an obvious choice to throw all this at as it has a reasonable “paper” implementation. Cue buying an iPad Pro, Noteful and using the files app to replace reference books and physical notepads. It just didn’t work. There are so many constraints and it’s not just the software but the fact it has only one screen. I need about 4-5 iPads to be equivalent and that’s not even remotely practical or possible. This is notably not unique to the iPad. No tablet would be good for this work. As for the generic computing stuff it’s not even good for consuming content - the screen is too shiny. If you add a keyboard case to it you might as well buy a MacBook Air.
wvh 2y ago
> iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work. But are they? Because of the hardware, or because of the restricted operating system? Most of my work is connecting to other things. With modern devices, it's not as much the hardware, as it is the restricted operating system and closed ecosystem that would limit me. That, and maybe my eyesight...
aplkorex 2y ago
Make that "two-decades-old" at least for a Land Cruiser ;-)
rafram 2y ago
That’s a revealing comparison: a largeish chunk of SUV owners really would be better off with a cargo e-bike. Lots of people on the road every day driving solo in an SUV with nothing more than some grocery bags in the trunk. They could be riding a cargo e-bike, saving a ton of money, and having a better time.
theshackleford 2y ago
> real work Almost always stated by nerds who are unable to fathom people do things with devices they don’t. I know people running their entire business from iPads. Last I looked running a business is real work.
burnished 2y ago
How do you figure? The compute is serious, it is using a real CPU.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

alabastervlog 2y ago

I see them more than laptops among actual people out in the world doing real work. Phones, too. [edit] non-office-workers, I mean.

DidYaWipe 2y ago
What is this "real work?"
- sbuk 2y ago
  Not the Orange Site bubble...
- h2zizzle 2y ago
  Construction, for one.

jjtheblunt 2y ago

If you're an artist who draws, I think they're serious computing devices.

aleph_minus_one 2y ago
> If you're an artist who draws, I think they're serious computing devices. An artist who draws might consider iPads to be serious drawing devices.
- musicale 2y ago
  That's high praise since it's basically what Apple was going for with the iPad, getting out of your way to let you focus on the task at hand.
  - beeflet 2y ago
    the supreme art of software marketing is convice your users that even your bugs are features.
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      the supreme art of product development is understand when lack of some feature is a feature in itself
  - h2zizzle 2y ago
    WRT drawing, specifically: no, they dragged their feet on introducing a pen/stylus for years. They insisted it be a "touch-only" device (Wacom's patents on display digitizers surely did not factor in /s), which sucked for those of us who couldn't afford a Cintiq, but who had a perfectly good iPad 2 lying around. There were several valiant, if flawed, stylus efforts befor the Pencil, but with awkward connection, pressure, and power solutions, they were DOA.
    - musicale 2y ago
      Your complaint seems to be that Apple was late to the party (as they often are). I agree that early third-party styli were a pain - I used various Jot versions, which were better than nothing but not great. But the Apple pencil + Procreate is actually great, and a fulfillment of the iPad's original promise in the drawing space.
      - h2zizzle 2y ago
        My complaint is that the idea that the decent drawing experience that we have now was part of Apple's master plan for the iPad is incorrect. They resisted it purposely because the iPad was never meant to be a creative device. The issue wasn't limited to visual art; people who wanted to use iPads for its other major creative application - as a music controller - had to use a number of hacks to break it out of the Garageband ghetto. The core issue is the hobbling of promising hardware because it doesn't fit the platform owner's vision.
goblin89 2y ago
An iPad is an interesting device. It has many uses where it is indispensable, but most of them are unknown to most people. I often see a sound engineer with an iPad on music gigs. The form factor allows you to walk around the room and adjust the sound easily to tame resonances and such. It’s not so good for typing text or programming, but where it makes sense to have a portable slab of screen that works reliably there is probably an app that does it.
- simonask 2y ago
  Lots of musicians use iPads for their sheet music. Vastly superior to carrying around several kilograms of paper, and you can use head gestures to turn pages.

Dylan16807 2y ago

Now imagine the ebike was built on the same basic frame and had the same engine. I'd be pretty annoyed if there was some little part in there restricting its use.

akst 2y ago

Perhaps this metaphor doesn’t work in the US, where heavy vehicles are incentivised by regulation & most population centres rely on car transport. But only a few people really benefit from a full featured Toyota land cruiser. The value added of additional features not available in more affordable cars (or transport options) is low relative to the cost of other uses of the same cash. Given the ability to make a trade off for a cheaper option that meets the core transport needs without paying the premium for the features they won’t really use (or the user doesn’t value for the price they have to pay), most would probably go for the cheaper option (rapid transit or smaller more fuel efficient car). Same can be said for many features on laptops not already found on tablets. I’m not sure if you’re referring to software engineering specifically or all workflows that require computers, but I don’t think it’s that silly for most other professions to use tablets more once they provide more specialised workflows. For example, I recently went back to university and I find it easier to do revision on my iPad using the pen tool, the second best option is pen and paper but that has limitations, the 3rd is computer but that has input limitations. It may not include everyone, but I don’t think it’s so silly to think iPads and tablets will play a more prominent role in the Office in the future. That said it’s possible this will never include software engineers due to the workflow being highly dependent on features that may never be available on iPads or tablets.

onceler 2y ago

Except in this metaphor, the "ebike" has en engine as powerful as a new "landcruiser", and attachment points that could allow quickly/easily adding extra seating or cargo capacity. That such a thing seems absurd illustrates how poorly the metaphor fits. The only reason that "iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work" is because Apple chooses to limit them. I have a laptop which I only rarely use as a laptop - it moves between being connected to external monitor/keyboard/mouse in an office to being connected to external monitor/keyboard/mouse at home. I could get an iPad with a faster processor (my laptop is a few years old), that could connect to the same peripherals. The only reason it couldn't replace my laptop is because I can't run the same software on it. Now, I understand why this is so. MacOS (or any other desktop OS) would not work at all well on a tablet interface, it would take a lot of work to make it work well, and those changes would make it less well suited to desktop use. Look at Windows 8, when Microsoft tried moving their desktop OS towards something that could also work on a tablet (or phone), and how unpopular those changes were. But that doesn't mean I have to like it (or wish iPads weren't so locked down, so I could run a different OS anyway even if Apple wouldn't support it).

davemp 2y ago
Let’s not pretend that Apple could come up with some sort of dual windowing system (or just dual boot) scheme. We’re not limited by drive space anymore. They don’t because it would hurt macbook sales.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  They aren't afraid of hurting MacBook sales they're afraid of breaking the app store chains. You can get software outside of the app store on the MacBook.
- rgarrett88 2y ago
  They don't because they don't take a 30% cut of everything purchased on your MacBook.
  - tengwar2 2y ago

walterbell 2y ago

> iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work. Video conferencing work: iPad + Center Stage unmatched for portability, audio quality, integrated cellular modem. Writing work: iPad with hardware keyboard and single app mode for distraction-free writing, ergonomic screen mount. SSH work: iPad has unmatched HiDPI 4:3 screen real estate Video editing work: Lumafusion usability with M4 rendering speed, $30 one-time fee unlike subscription alternatives. 3D planning or design: vertical industry apps for iPad Pro Lidar sensor that is absent from competing tablets. Source: decade on iPads as primary device. Secondary device: Lenovo /w Linux sidecar VMs accessed from iPad. After Apple enables hypervisor API for Linux VMs on iPad, Lenovo sidecar budget can be redirected to iPad storage.

walterbell 2y ago
Why is this comment being downvoted?
JimDabell 2y ago
This is exactly right. I hate seeing so many people say that iPads aren’t for “real work”, because it’s being hugely dismissive of the real work plenty of people do every day. You don’t have to be writing a compiler for it to count as “real work” FFS. Just because it’s not suitable for your work, it doesn’t mean that the work other people do on it isn’t real work.

giancarlostoro 2y ago

Man. I thought you were joking, then I read the article. Yeah, I will never spend so much on an iPad. It's not even the same OS. I don't know why anyone would think an ebike compares to a Land Cruiser.

bigiain 2y ago
I dunno why anybody thinks a computer with a 10 core CPU, 10 core GPU, 16GB of RAM and a TB or two of storage is "an e-bike". None of the machines I do the work that pays my salary exceed those specs. Apart from the 16GB of RAM none of my work machines meet any of the other specs. If Apple would let me plug a couple of HDMI screens and a keyboard and mouse into a iPad, and let me run macOS (or even Linux) on it, it'd be a more capable development machine that any I've ever used.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  Why don't you just get a MacBook Air then? Or a Mini?
  - goosedragons 2y ago
    MBA or Mini don't also have a touch screen and pen support. iPads are a lot more flexible in form factor than anything else Apple sells.
    - DidYaWipe 2y ago
      The stupid thing is that the oversized trackpads on Apple laptops don't support the Pencil. WTH.
  - h2zizzle 2y ago
    Reduce <-Somewhere between these two. Reuse . . Recycle -- Redundant consumption is not a virtue.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago

gigatexal 2y ago

Exactly. The author is “using it wrong”. The iPad is an appliance much like the phone is. Get a MacBook Air and call it a day. The article is clickbait at best because everyone knows iPadOS is not as open as macOS.

zimpenfish 2y ago
> The article is clickbait at best To be fair, "theregister" is a big hint that you're going to be opening unsubstantiated clickbait 50% of the time (rising to 90% if it's relating to Apple.) (Also Pesce has been banging the "ipads should be computers" drum for a while - e.g. https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/23/apples_got_a_good_thing/ https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/23/apples_got_a_good_thi...)
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  Such a dumb drum. iPads are inherently unsuited to the tasks for which we pull out a computer: work requiring precision, rapid text input, or I/O.
DidYaWipe 2y ago
Absolutely. The entire "article" insults the reader by expecting him to believe such a stupid premise, or makes the author look stupid. Nobody who wants to do stuff at the command line would seriously buy a TABLET, especially not one from Apple. Pfff, downvoted by the author, twice, no doubt...

raydev 2y ago

"My decade-old and very well-travelled Toyota Land Cruiser finally died, and I bought a Land Cruiser that has the exact same body and engine but with a different steering wheel... the engine also has a limiter applied to it that prevents offroading and driving faster than 20mph. I think Toyota should remove the limiter."

dudus 2y ago

I needed a machine just to sketch some UIs in figma. I was going to get a Chromebook but my wife insisted on the iPad. I thought it could sure handle that use case, I quickly checked there was a figma app. I was expecting some quirks. A day later I returned it. Turns out that figma app for iPad can only "view" designs, not create them! I feel like there's a very narrow market for iPads. I'm surprised they still sell.

keyle 2y ago
They sell like hot breads for kids in school.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  Who immediately 1. Turn them into toys 2. Break them 3. Lose them Gargantuan waste of money that does nothing to advance education.
  - BobaFloutist 2y ago
    I mean tablets genuinely have advantages for note-taking, I'm tempted to get one myself Recording math notes or diagrams with a keyboard just sucks, and a phone is too small.
akst 2y ago
Yeah I don't think I've found a good substitute for vector art. There's stuff for more expressive creative raster art with procreate, I think the capacity is there to deliver a good experience here but the first one to do it will have to solve a few problems relating into a more professional workflow and take on quite a bit of risk seeing as the consumer base (most companies) probably don't issue iPads to their employees. There's very little incentive to this when their consumer is content with existing tools.

matwood 2y ago

> iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work At the risk of invoking no true Scotsman, I think you need to define 'real' work.

dagw 2y ago
According the author of the article he seems to consider 'real' work is any work the requires "terminal windows, root access, and the ability to type "python" to get into a REPL".

sarmasamosarma 2y ago

[dead]

ohgr 2y ago

I have to agree here. I do a lot of written work and thinking still. If I put my “lowest common denominator user” hat on, the iPad seemed like an obvious choice to throw all this at as it has a reasonable “paper” implementation. Cue buying an iPad Pro, Noteful and using the files app to replace reference books and physical notepads. It just didn’t work. There are so many constraints and it’s not just the software but the fact it has only one screen. I need about 4-5 iPads to be equivalent and that’s not even remotely practical or possible. This is notably not unique to the iPad. No tablet would be good for this work. As for the generic computing stuff it’s not even good for consuming content - the screen is too shiny. If you add a keyboard case to it you might as well buy a MacBook Air.

wvh 2y ago

> iPads are just unserious computing devices for real work. But are they? Because of the hardware, or because of the restricted operating system? Most of my work is connecting to other things. With modern devices, it's not as much the hardware, as it is the restricted operating system and closed ecosystem that would limit me. That, and maybe my eyesight...

aplkorex 2y ago

Make that "two-decades-old" at least for a Land Cruiser ;-)

rafram 2y ago

That’s a revealing comparison: a largeish chunk of SUV owners really would be better off with a cargo e-bike. Lots of people on the road every day driving solo in an SUV with nothing more than some grocery bags in the trunk. They could be riding a cargo e-bike, saving a ton of money, and having a better time.

theshackleford 2y ago

> real work Almost always stated by nerds who are unable to fathom people do things with devices they don’t. I know people running their entire business from iPads. Last I looked running a business is real work.

burnished 2y ago

How do you figure? The compute is serious, it is using a real CPU.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]