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China recently moved that direction. That would be nice collaboration to see between EU and China. China to publish policy to boost RISC-V chip use nationwide,

China recently moved that direction. That would be nice collaboration to see between EU and China. China to publish policy to boost RISC-V chip use nationwide, sources say https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-publish-policy-boost-risc-v-chip-use-nationwide-sources-2025-03-04/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/china-publish-policy-boos...

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago
I think it'd be nice for collaboration across all nations that want to take part.
briandear 2y ago
If the goal is to decouple from the U.S., why would the EU want to collaborate with a totalitarian state like China?
- brendoelfrendo 2y ago
  The US and the Soviets were able to cooperate on space missions in spite of their enmity. It's not unreasonable to think that Europe could work with China on a scientific mission, even if the EU or its member states want to keep China at arms-length otherwise. There's an interesting moral quandary there, as to whether cooperation with a totalitarian regime helps diminish or consolidate the regime's power, but this daylight savings thing here in the US is throwing me for a loop so I'm going to have to leave that unanswered for now.
  - microtonal 2y ago
    There's an interesting moral quandary there, as to whether cooperation with a totalitarian regime helps diminish or consolidate the regime's power, but this daylight savings thing here in the US is throwing me for a loop so I'm going to have to leave that unanswered for now. To be honest (I say this as an European), we have tougher nuts to crack the worrying whether cooperation with China will diminish or consolidate it's power. Our focus is now on defending peace and democracy in Europe (and on a larger scale non-US NATO). To say that China has its issues is an understatement (everyone has), but they are too far away to be a threat short- to midterm. Plus China also values international trade stability. So it would be silly not to look where we can (cautiously) cooperate. Ideally we would like to continue to work with the US. But the US is less interested in Europe now and that creates a vacuum that will lead to new trade alliances.
  - matt-p 2y ago
    It is what it is, IF the USA is now europe's enemy, and aligning with Russia (cutting off ukraine from satellites, disabling F16s, hummilaiting the leader in press confrences, calling him a dictator in the press and JD calling us "random countries that haven't fought a war in 30 years" are all indicating that's true). We will forced to look for other friends, I'm not sure we have the luxury of complete ideological alignment, instead a pragmatic but considered strategic approach shall have to do. I for one think we've bigger fish to fry, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and all that.
- gregman1 2y ago
  While it's important to steer clear of political debates, it's also crucial to acknowledge that the European Union, like any other political entity, has its strengths and weaknesses.
- swarnie 2y ago
  What's the real difference? I know the US get to have elections but its always between family dynasties, billionaires or corporate stooges. The choice is an illusion. Lets cut out the middleman and know we're working with a different system for societal structure rather than one that pretends otherwise.
- rapsey 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - tgv 2y ago
    That's not true. If only because the EU cannot cancel elections. I suppose you're referring to Georgescu?
    - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      The EU certainly called for the Romania elections to be annulled and almost certainly interfered with the democratic process by pressuring the court. See these comments by Thierry Breton who was until recently a high ranking EU leader: “We have to prevent interferences and make our laws apply,” Breton said, referring to the alleged Russian involvement before admitting actual EU interference. “We did it in Romania, and we will obviously have to do it in Germany, if necessary.” Source: https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/former-censorship-tsar-admits-eu-role-in-annulling-romanian-election/ https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/former-censor...
    - rapsey 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - tgv 2y ago
        If it's Georgescu you're referring to (because you don't seem to want to say so): the annulment was upheld by the ECHR. We cannot tolerate democracy threatening extremism any longer, nor Russian interference. If anything, the EU is too soft. Orban, and to a lesser degree Fico, are a disgrace, also to their own population.
  - stevenwoo 2y ago
    In spite of this claim, Orban has won four straight elections. That's not much of an EU power is it?
    - 2y ago
- dgellow 2y ago
  The US is extremely chaotic and unpredictable. China is fairly stable and predictable.
  - paulddraper 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - ratatoskrt 2y ago
    This is it. China might be authoritarian, but it's acting way less eratic than the US right now.
    - janice1999 2y ago
      That may be in part to their 'president for life'. Leaders are not immortal though and transitions between them have seen large and sometimes catastrophic changes. China designed its modern political system to avoid that, only for Xi to undo it and purge younger potential challengers.
      - jimbob45 2y ago
        For life and is 71 in arguably the most stressful job in the world. The risk of mental decline cannot be ignored, particularly as he has now served longer than any US president in all of history. Although I say that and then I went down the rabbit hole of trying to find which individual had the longest tenure of presidency and vice presidency combined. It seems like it’s either Nixon, HW Bush, or Biden.
        brucehoult 2y ago
        As the US president is more or less in the same position as the monarch in the UK -- the main *official* task is to approve or reject legislation already passed by parliament -- you should perhaps look at the 63 years 216 days Victoria reigned, or 70 years 214 days of Elizabeth II, both far exceeding any recent US, Chinese, or Russian supreme leader. I recently noticed with horror that my birth is now closer to the end of Victoria's reign in 1901 than it is to today.
- addicted 2y ago
  If it’s open source it doesn’t matter who the state they’re collaborating with is.
  - svorakang 2y ago
    Well. I have worked quite a bit with Chinese businesses and let's just put like this: It does not matter much whatever license you think the SW or HW has. Whatever is available will be used and modified to the liking of the customer. It is common for new employees to walk in with code bases of previous projects they have worked with and there is a great deal of administration involved in ensuring that no one else gets to work with more code than they absolutely need. Local builds and copying binary archives is common practice!
    - com 2y ago
      I hate to break it to you but it’s extremely common for Western employees to do the same. I had to investigate what seemed like a new employee attempting to begin an exfil of our source code only to discover what looked like all of EMC’s core code, the new employee’s last employer, in a gdrive folder. Incredibly common.
    - znpy 2y ago
      > It does not matter much whatever license you think the SW or HW has. Whatever is available will be used and modified to the liking of the customer. yeah, china is just not playing the stupid licensing and copyright game. chinese companies infringe trademarks and break licenses all the time. doing so boosts their business/economy overall so the state just doesn't bother with enforcing anything. the annoying thing is that we're not really playing the game either, or at least, we have laws that get enforced "randomly". it was recent news that meta torrented some 80 terabytes of stuff (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/02/meta-torrented-over-81-7tb-of-pirated-books-to-train-ai-authors-say/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/02/meta-torrented-o...) and essentially nothing happened. back in the day aaron schwartz was driven to suicide over a way smaller chunk of scientific papers downloaded.
      - 2y ago
- tntxtnt 2y ago
  Because in spite of the west's propaganda, Xi is a good dictator. Singapore was/is also a totalitarian state yet many do business with it.
  - f1shy 2y ago
    Is there “good” dictatorships? My personal opinion is there is no good dictator (ok, in HN context, BDFL in a SW project) I like no totalitarian regime. No one.
    - bruce511 2y ago
      A benevolent dictator is the best form of government. Unfortunately though power corrupts and they have a habit of becoming self serving, and very much not benevolent. I'm not just talking at the nation-state level, but at community, company, sports and so on. There's no shortage of Open Source projects run using the Benevolent Dictator approach. Compare that to companies run by committee (or governments run by dead-locked congresses) which preport to "represent the people" but just turn into "nothing gets done" factories. So yes, there are good dictatorships. They're especially good at getting stuff done. There are also obviously bad dictatorships.
      - kibwen 2y ago
        > So yes, there are good dictatorships. They're especially good at getting stuff done. There are also obviously bad dictatorships. All dictatorships, by definition, are better at getting things done than organizations that require non-unilateral assent. Instead, the difference between a good dictatorship and a bad dictatorship is that in a good dictatorship, dissidents are eliminated quietly or, if not quietly, then with enough spin that everyone considers their elimination to be a good thing. In other words, what good dictatorships are good at is PR.
        XorNot 2y ago
        Also you can look at the history of the Nazis and it becomes apparent that they weren't good at much of anything except that: so successfully that "efficient Nazis" became a trope for decades after the war despite all the evidence lying around to the contrary.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - regularjack 2y ago
    By negotiated peace you mean taking the agressor's side?
    - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      I mean a negotiated peace. The alternative is a drawn out conflict that either wipes out Ukraine’s male population or significantly weakens the economies of Europe and America or both. Avoiding those things is taking the side of Ukrainians, Europeans, and Americans. Does it mean a dictator (Putin) gets some land? Sure. But I don’t think that’s the reason to seek peace.
      - Yoric 2y ago
        This kind of reasoning made sense before the 1938 Munich agreements. By now, we have to assume that giving a dictator a victory will only fuel his next campaign. Especially since it's a campaign for which Russia has been preparing for 70+ years – including exercises shortly before the latest invasion of Ukraine.
- kindeyoowee 2y ago
  [dead]
- simion314 2y ago
  At UN votes when voting about Ruzzian invasion China abstain while USA voted with Ruzzia and other most despicable dictatorships. Still waiting for a MAGA explain this 5D chess move and explain what the USA citizen won from this.
  - wraaath 2y ago
    "MAGA" voted in the manchurian candidate. Dismantling oversight, accountability, throwing out old alliances and siding with the global aggressors. The US government is rapidly turning into a kleptocracy.
- regularjack 2y ago
  At this point, I'd rather my country collaborates with China than the US. And I dislike China's government as much as the next person.
- tehjoker 2y ago
  Simple: China is only totalitarian in western propaganda. "Yellow Peril" is a tired trope, it's a democracy. It's difficult to characterize the U.S. as a democracy, and our social progress is rolling backwards.
  - geysersam 2y ago
    I'm very impressed and fascinated by the Chinese society and their progress. I love the country and it's rich history. But is it a democracy? No not according to my idea of what that word means. It's a great country nonetheless, people are free in China, they have their own system and it works for them, good! Why pretend it's a democracy?
    - Barrin92 2y ago
      It's worth debating because China describes itself as such: http://en.moj.gov.cn/2024-03/05/c_967573.htm http://en.moj.gov.cn/2024-03/05/c_967573.htm The Chinese would say the point of democracy is to translate the will of the people into action, it's to efficiently solve problems that people have, it's in their understanding neither liberal nor representative. In fact they'd likely turn your question around, if democracy is merely a set of procedures or rituals without concerns for the will of the majority, the demos which is in the name, why do you pretend to be one?
      - toxik 2y ago
        What absolute hogwash. Can you criticize and ridicule your government? No? Not a democracy.
        Barrin92 2y ago
        There's currently a deep crisis of legitimacy in Western democracy so brushing off criticism as hogwash seems to me pretty ignorant. The core of democracy cannot be, in the words of the current American president, to be "good television". If all your democracy does is exhaust itself in staging content for social media, television and election campaigns you have inverted what the point of it is. People don't need governments so bad that ridicule becomes a daily norm, they need it to solve material problems and put food on the table. Anything else is simply decadence.
- happymellon 2y ago
  Because RISC V results would be something the Europeans could produce? We are reliant on the US as only 2 companies can make the x86/64 chips. I don't think Europe would be completely against working with a US or Chinese company like Hi Five/Star Five, as long as we weren't dependent on them, and could pull ties if they abused their position of control.
  - XorNot 2y ago
    Isn't the supplier of lithography machines for TSMC Dutch? While that's not the entire process, and it would be a 20 year endeavour, it seems like funding the development of local capability here would be eminently doable. Europe is also the current heavy hitter for fundamental physics research, so attracting talent and maintaining an ecosystem should be much more achievable.
    - omnimus 2y ago
      Manufacturing the processor itself is different issue from what architecture that processor will be. If Europe produces any consumer processors like that it wont be x86. It will be Risc-V (maybe arm? its UK but owned by Softbank so nope)
      - matt-p 2y ago
        Just because SoftBank own it now, do you really think if Europe went to it and said "can we buy half, if so we'll buy $X amount of licences otherwise we'll start (effectively) a serious competitor in risc-v.
        omnimus 2y ago
        Again why to fight for ARM where Softbank will want a huge payoff. When you can instead put this money into RISC-V. I guess i am comming from viewpoint that what EU really needs are independent chips that don't have to be the most cutting edge. I think performance few years behind is fine for majority of needs and that would make europe much more independent. So chips for AI no but for everything else it would be a great start.
- matt-p 2y ago
  Because if the US are aligning with Russia and shunning Europe, then it makes sense for Europe to partner with China and break them off from Russia/USA
- znpy 2y ago
  because we already collaborate, sell and trade with them all the time. might as well collaborate with them on this as well.
- MaxPock 2y ago
  EU is friends with totalitarian states like Bahrain,Syria, Qatar and Saudi Arabia.What's wrong with working with another totalitarian state ?
  - cynusx 2y ago
    Friends is a big word, the EU has a vested interest in getting cheap gas from as many sources as possible at this point and a direct oil and gas pipeline to Europe would definitely be helpful. Russian presence in Syria prevented this but they're gone now. In the future we can balance Russian cheap gas with Qatari cheap gas to not be held hostage by either party. It would be a mistake to build dependencies on China when it's possible to avoid having dependencies at all.
duskwuff 2y ago
Chinese firms have been moving in that direction for some time now. One early adopter was GigaDevice, which started offering RISC-V versions of their microcontrollers (e.g. GD32VF103 - a RISC-V adapted STM32 clone) around 2019.
tw04 2y ago
If you ignore the military ambitions of China and the fact they’re openly sharing technology with Russia, perhaps. I don’t see anything but regret for Europe several decades from now if they decide to start providing China with the technical expertise they’re currently lacking in this space. This is all about China trying to find a way to escape the pressure of sanctions from Europe and the US.
- amelius 2y ago
  Didn't ARM start in Europe?
  - znpy 2y ago
    in uk, so in continental europe, yes.
    - tsukikage 2y ago
      It was in the EU when ARM started as well, fwiw.
      - Y_Y 2y ago
        The EU was established in 1993. Arm was founded in 1990. For that matter the UK is composed of islands and parts thereof and nothing in "continental Europe", a term which refers to just the contiguous landmass. (Gibraltar is owned by the UK, but not part of it.) Luckily Europe is not defined by the EU or sea levels, and the UK is very much in Europe the continent.
        SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
        Being slightly pedantic, Gibraltar is a British Overseas Territory on continental Europe.
        tsukikage 2y ago
        Technically true, which as we all know is the best kind of true. Note, however: “The United Kingdom (along with the British Overseas Territory of Gibraltar) was a member state of the European Union (EU) and of its predecessor the European Communities (EC) – principally the European Economic Community (EEC) – from 1 January 1973 until 31 January 2020.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_membership_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_membership_of_t... Compare the start of this subthread: “Didn't ARM start in Europe?” Whatever point it is that subsequent responders were trying to score by mentioning continental europe is moot: Britain was part of Europe in more ways than merely its location.

ndsipa_pomu 2y ago

I think it'd be nice for collaboration across all nations that want to take part.

briandear 2y ago

If the goal is to decouple from the U.S., why would the EU want to collaborate with a totalitarian state like China?

brendoelfrendo 2y ago
The US and the Soviets were able to cooperate on space missions in spite of their enmity. It's not unreasonable to think that Europe could work with China on a scientific mission, even if the EU or its member states want to keep China at arms-length otherwise. There's an interesting moral quandary there, as to whether cooperation with a totalitarian regime helps diminish or consolidate the regime's power, but this daylight savings thing here in the US is throwing me for a loop so I'm going to have to leave that unanswered for now.
- microtonal 2y ago
  There's an interesting moral quandary there, as to whether cooperation with a totalitarian regime helps diminish or consolidate the regime's power, but this daylight savings thing here in the US is throwing me for a loop so I'm going to have to leave that unanswered for now. To be honest (I say this as an European), we have tougher nuts to crack the worrying whether cooperation with China will diminish or consolidate it's power. Our focus is now on defending peace and democracy in Europe (and on a larger scale non-US NATO). To say that China has its issues is an understatement (everyone has), but they are too far away to be a threat short- to midterm. Plus China also values international trade stability. So it would be silly not to look where we can (cautiously) cooperate. Ideally we would like to continue to work with the US. But the US is less interested in Europe now and that creates a vacuum that will lead to new trade alliances.
- matt-p 2y ago
  It is what it is, IF the USA is now europe's enemy, and aligning with Russia (cutting off ukraine from satellites, disabling F16s, hummilaiting the leader in press confrences, calling him a dictator in the press and JD calling us "random countries that haven't fought a war in 30 years" are all indicating that's true). We will forced to look for other friends, I'm not sure we have the luxury of complete ideological alignment, instead a pragmatic but considered strategic approach shall have to do. I for one think we've bigger fish to fry, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" and all that.
gregman1 2y ago
While it's important to steer clear of political debates, it's also crucial to acknowledge that the European Union, like any other political entity, has its strengths and weaknesses.
swarnie 2y ago
What's the real difference? I know the US get to have elections but its always between family dynasties, billionaires or corporate stooges. The choice is an illusion. Lets cut out the middleman and know we're working with a different system for societal structure rather than one that pretends otherwise.
rapsey 2y ago
[flagged]
- tgv 2y ago
  That's not true. If only because the EU cannot cancel elections. I suppose you're referring to Georgescu?
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    The EU certainly called for the Romania elections to be annulled and almost certainly interfered with the democratic process by pressuring the court. See these comments by Thierry Breton who was until recently a high ranking EU leader: “We have to prevent interferences and make our laws apply,” Breton said, referring to the alleged Russian involvement before admitting actual EU interference. “We did it in Romania, and we will obviously have to do it in Germany, if necessary.” Source: https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/former-censorship-tsar-admits-eu-role-in-annulling-romanian-election/ https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/former-censor...
  - rapsey 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - tgv 2y ago
      If it's Georgescu you're referring to (because you don't seem to want to say so): the annulment was upheld by the ECHR. We cannot tolerate democracy threatening extremism any longer, nor Russian interference. If anything, the EU is too soft. Orban, and to a lesser degree Fico, are a disgrace, also to their own population.
- stevenwoo 2y ago
  In spite of this claim, Orban has won four straight elections. That's not much of an EU power is it?
  - 2y ago
dgellow 2y ago
The US is extremely chaotic and unpredictable. China is fairly stable and predictable.
- paulddraper 2y ago
  [flagged]
- ratatoskrt 2y ago
  This is it. China might be authoritarian, but it's acting way less eratic than the US right now.
  - janice1999 2y ago
    That may be in part to their 'president for life'. Leaders are not immortal though and transitions between them have seen large and sometimes catastrophic changes. China designed its modern political system to avoid that, only for Xi to undo it and purge younger potential challengers.
    - jimbob45 2y ago
      For life and is 71 in arguably the most stressful job in the world. The risk of mental decline cannot be ignored, particularly as he has now served longer than any US president in all of history. Although I say that and then I went down the rabbit hole of trying to find which individual had the longest tenure of presidency and vice presidency combined. It seems like it’s either Nixon, HW Bush, or Biden.
      - brucehoult 2y ago
        As the US president is more or less in the same position as the monarch in the UK -- the main *official* task is to approve or reject legislation already passed by parliament -- you should perhaps look at the 63 years 216 days Victoria reigned, or 70 years 214 days of Elizabeth II, both far exceeding any recent US, Chinese, or Russian supreme leader. I recently noticed with horror that my birth is now closer to the end of Victoria's reign in 1901 than it is to today.
addicted 2y ago
If it’s open source it doesn’t matter who the state they’re collaborating with is.
- svorakang 2y ago
  Well. I have worked quite a bit with Chinese businesses and let's just put like this: It does not matter much whatever license you think the SW or HW has. Whatever is available will be used and modified to the liking of the customer. It is common for new employees to walk in with code bases of previous projects they have worked with and there is a great deal of administration involved in ensuring that no one else gets to work with more code than they absolutely need. Local builds and copying binary archives is common practice!
  - com 2y ago
    I hate to break it to you but it’s extremely common for Western employees to do the same. I had to investigate what seemed like a new employee attempting to begin an exfil of our source code only to discover what looked like all of EMC’s core code, the new employee’s last employer, in a gdrive folder. Incredibly common.
  - znpy 2y ago
    > It does not matter much whatever license you think the SW or HW has. Whatever is available will be used and modified to the liking of the customer. yeah, china is just not playing the stupid licensing and copyright game. chinese companies infringe trademarks and break licenses all the time. doing so boosts their business/economy overall so the state just doesn't bother with enforcing anything. the annoying thing is that we're not really playing the game either, or at least, we have laws that get enforced "randomly". it was recent news that meta torrented some 80 terabytes of stuff (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/02/meta-torrented-over-81-7tb-of-pirated-books-to-train-ai-authors-say/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/02/meta-torrented-o...) and essentially nothing happened. back in the day aaron schwartz was driven to suicide over a way smaller chunk of scientific papers downloaded.
    - 2y ago
tntxtnt 2y ago
Because in spite of the west's propaganda, Xi is a good dictator. Singapore was/is also a totalitarian state yet many do business with it.
- f1shy 2y ago
  Is there “good” dictatorships? My personal opinion is there is no good dictator (ok, in HN context, BDFL in a SW project) I like no totalitarian regime. No one.
  - bruce511 2y ago
    A benevolent dictator is the best form of government. Unfortunately though power corrupts and they have a habit of becoming self serving, and very much not benevolent. I'm not just talking at the nation-state level, but at community, company, sports and so on. There's no shortage of Open Source projects run using the Benevolent Dictator approach. Compare that to companies run by committee (or governments run by dead-locked congresses) which preport to "represent the people" but just turn into "nothing gets done" factories. So yes, there are good dictatorships. They're especially good at getting stuff done. There are also obviously bad dictatorships.
    - kibwen 2y ago
      > So yes, there are good dictatorships. They're especially good at getting stuff done. There are also obviously bad dictatorships. All dictatorships, by definition, are better at getting things done than organizations that require non-unilateral assent. Instead, the difference between a good dictatorship and a bad dictatorship is that in a good dictatorship, dissidents are eliminated quietly or, if not quietly, then with enough spin that everyone considers their elimination to be a good thing. In other words, what good dictatorships are good at is PR.
      - XorNot 2y ago
        Also you can look at the history of the Nazis and it becomes apparent that they weren't good at much of anything except that: so successfully that "efficient Nazis" became a trope for decades after the war despite all the evidence lying around to the contrary.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
[flagged]
- regularjack 2y ago
  By negotiated peace you mean taking the agressor's side?
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    I mean a negotiated peace. The alternative is a drawn out conflict that either wipes out Ukraine’s male population or significantly weakens the economies of Europe and America or both. Avoiding those things is taking the side of Ukrainians, Europeans, and Americans. Does it mean a dictator (Putin) gets some land? Sure. But I don’t think that’s the reason to seek peace.
    - Yoric 2y ago
      This kind of reasoning made sense before the 1938 Munich agreements. By now, we have to assume that giving a dictator a victory will only fuel his next campaign. Especially since it's a campaign for which Russia has been preparing for 70+ years – including exercises shortly before the latest invasion of Ukraine.
kindeyoowee 2y ago
[dead]
simion314 2y ago
At UN votes when voting about Ruzzian invasion China abstain while USA voted with Ruzzia and other most despicable dictatorships. Still waiting for a MAGA explain this 5D chess move and explain what the USA citizen won from this.
- wraaath 2y ago
  "MAGA" voted in the manchurian candidate. Dismantling oversight, accountability, throwing out old alliances and siding with the global aggressors. The US government is rapidly turning into a kleptocracy.
regularjack 2y ago
At this point, I'd rather my country collaborates with China than the US. And I dislike China's government as much as the next person.
tehjoker 2y ago
Simple: China is only totalitarian in western propaganda. "Yellow Peril" is a tired trope, it's a democracy. It's difficult to characterize the U.S. as a democracy, and our social progress is rolling backwards.
- geysersam 2y ago
  I'm very impressed and fascinated by the Chinese society and their progress. I love the country and it's rich history. But is it a democracy? No not according to my idea of what that word means. It's a great country nonetheless, people are free in China, they have their own system and it works for them, good! Why pretend it's a democracy?
  - Barrin92 2y ago
    It's worth debating because China describes itself as such: http://en.moj.gov.cn/2024-03/05/c_967573.htm http://en.moj.gov.cn/2024-03/05/c_967573.htm The Chinese would say the point of democracy is to translate the will of the people into action, it's to efficiently solve problems that people have, it's in their understanding neither liberal nor representative. In fact they'd likely turn your question around, if democracy is merely a set of procedures or rituals without concerns for the will of the majority, the demos which is in the name, why do you pretend to be one?
    - toxik 2y ago
      What absolute hogwash. Can you criticize and ridicule your government? No? Not a democracy.
      - Barrin92 2y ago
        There's currently a deep crisis of legitimacy in Western democracy so brushing off criticism as hogwash seems to me pretty ignorant. The core of democracy cannot be, in the words of the current American president, to be "good television". If all your democracy does is exhaust itself in staging content for social media, television and election campaigns you have inverted what the point of it is. People don't need governments so bad that ridicule becomes a daily norm, they need it to solve material problems and put food on the table. Anything else is simply decadence.
happymellon 2y ago
Because RISC V results would be something the Europeans could produce? We are reliant on the US as only 2 companies can make the x86/64 chips. I don't think Europe would be completely against working with a US or Chinese company like Hi Five/Star Five, as long as we weren't dependent on them, and could pull ties if they abused their position of control.
- XorNot 2y ago
  Isn't the supplier of lithography machines for TSMC Dutch? While that's not the entire process, and it would be a 20 year endeavour, it seems like funding the development of local capability here would be eminently doable. Europe is also the current heavy hitter for fundamental physics research, so attracting talent and maintaining an ecosystem should be much more achievable.
  - omnimus 2y ago
    Manufacturing the processor itself is different issue from what architecture that processor will be. If Europe produces any consumer processors like that it wont be x86. It will be Risc-V (maybe arm? its UK but owned by Softbank so nope)
    - matt-p 2y ago
      Just because SoftBank own it now, do you really think if Europe went to it and said "can we buy half, if so we'll buy $X amount of licences otherwise we'll start (effectively) a serious competitor in risc-v.
      - omnimus 2y ago
        Again why to fight for ARM where Softbank will want a huge payoff. When you can instead put this money into RISC-V. I guess i am comming from viewpoint that what EU really needs are independent chips that don't have to be the most cutting edge. I think performance few years behind is fine for majority of needs and that would make europe much more independent. So chips for AI no but for everything else it would be a great start.
matt-p 2y ago
Because if the US are aligning with Russia and shunning Europe, then it makes sense for Europe to partner with China and break them off from Russia/USA
znpy 2y ago
because we already collaborate, sell and trade with them all the time. might as well collaborate with them on this as well.
MaxPock 2y ago
EU is friends with totalitarian states like Bahrain,Syria, Qatar and Saudi Arabia.What's wrong with working with another totalitarian state ?
- cynusx 2y ago
  Friends is a big word, the EU has a vested interest in getting cheap gas from as many sources as possible at this point and a direct oil and gas pipeline to Europe would definitely be helpful. Russian presence in Syria prevented this but they're gone now. In the future we can balance Russian cheap gas with Qatari cheap gas to not be held hostage by either party. It would be a mistake to build dependencies on China when it's possible to avoid having dependencies at all.

duskwuff 2y ago

Chinese firms have been moving in that direction for some time now. One early adopter was GigaDevice, which started offering RISC-V versions of their microcontrollers (e.g. GD32VF103 - a RISC-V adapted STM32 clone) around 2019.

tw04 2y ago

If you ignore the military ambitions of China and the fact they’re openly sharing technology with Russia, perhaps. I don’t see anything but regret for Europe several decades from now if they decide to start providing China with the technical expertise they’re currently lacking in this space. This is all about China trying to find a way to escape the pressure of sanctions from Europe and the US.

amelius 2y ago
Didn't ARM start in Europe?
- znpy 2y ago
  in uk, so in continental europe, yes.
  - tsukikage 2y ago
    It was in the EU when ARM started as well, fwiw.
    - Y_Y 2y ago
      The EU was established in 1993. Arm was founded in 1990. For that matter the UK is composed of islands and parts thereof and nothing in "continental Europe", a term which refers to just the contiguous landmass. (Gibraltar is owned by the UK, but not part of it.) Luckily Europe is not defined by the EU or sea levels, and the UK is very much in Europe the continent.
      - SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
        Being slightly pedantic, Gibraltar is a British Overseas Territory on continental Europe.
      - tsukikage 2y ago
        Technically true, which as we all know is the best kind of true. Note, however: “The United Kingdom (along with the British Overseas Territory of Gibraltar) was a member state of the European Union (EU) and of its predecessor the European Communities (EC) – principally the European Economic Community (EEC) – from 1 January 1973 until 31 January 2020.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_membership_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_membership_of_t... Compare the start of this subthread: “Didn't ARM start in Europe?” Whatever point it is that subsequent responders were trying to score by mentioning continental europe is moot: Britain was part of Europe in more ways than merely its location.