4 ms·

Bangladesh's factories turn to surveillance, automation; workers feel pressure

81 points by impish9208 2y ago

ryandrake 2y ago
We're inevitably creating and assembling all the pieces of the dystopian world from Manna[1], as if it were a handbook. The expectation of infinite growth and profit at all costs is going to destroy all but the very, very wealthy. 1: https://marshallbrain.com/manna1 https://marshallbrain.com/manna1
- ysofunny 2y ago
  all of these enabled by a clear application of distance-abstraction how can the "ultra wealthy" be so evil? they don't even know it, they purposefully do not want to know. they have a thing for being ignorant about whence their wealth comes and how it's handled. all they care is they get the best of everything by my account's handle I should make this funny some how but not today.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    It's useful to think of -The World- as a gigantic factory. But instead of producing products, this factory produces billionaires. The raw materials that go into the factory are money, energy and a few privileged people, the output from the assembly line are billionaires, and the waste product discarded out the back are the worn-out and no-longer-efficient minds and bodies of common workers. If you look at every significant policy decision that gets made in any country (regardless of government type), you will see that they are all in service of keeping this factory running.
- smallmancontrov 2y ago
  The world is run by the rich, for the rich. Rich people get paid for being rich when there is growth. If real growth can't be had, fake growth (inflation and debt) will do, since it serves the same ultimate purpose just as well: paying rich people for being rich. The beatings will continue until the growth resumes.
  - worldsayshi 2y ago
    > The world is run by the rich, for the rich. I sympathize but am extremely frustrated at this defeatist idea. Yes they run it, but only because people in general fail to coordinate around some other way of doing things. It's coordination plain and "simple". The rich doesn't run the world. They tell people what to do and people run the world as they command because there seems to be no better alternative. Why have we stopped trying out better ways to coordinate? We somehow have come to believe that mass coordination outside of corporations can't be improved upon.
    - 3np 2y ago
      > Why have we stopped trying out better ways to coordinate? To a large extent because somehow "that serves no purpose", "any alternative is a scam" and "blockchain evil" propaganda have been very effective in an environment where greed has been distracting too many from the damn point. We need to relearn and establish new ways to run perpetual and huge coordination efforts outside of corporate systems and government without fear or greed as necessary driving forces. The first step is to start trying ans honestly explore options.
      - worldsayshi 2y ago
        > greed has been distracting too many from the damn point I also suspect that another factor is ever increasing acceptance of the immutability of debt. When most people are stuck in debt they have to keep running in the treadmill. Imagine if there was a non-blockable way for everyone to vote on a universal debt cancellation event - "Should we all just from now on ignore any debt incurred before today? ¤ yes, ¤ no".
        pixl97 2y ago
        >everyone to vote on a universal debt cancellation event Just look at the student loan forgiveness debacle. It seems our population would sooner vote in capital punishment for not paying debt.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
> her target had increased by 75% after Nidle [monitoring] was installed in 2022. ... Although her workload had increased, her earnings remained static until November 2023, when the government raised the minimum wage ... She has stopped using the bathroom to keep up Companies will increase workloads at will but only raise wages when forced to by the government (which is why regulation is so important). > Each machine could replace between one and six workers, and the largest factories surveyed anticipated cutting 22% of their workforce What are all these workers going to do? This relentless pursuit of profit is destroying our societies.
OutOfHere 2y ago
This is how you burn out employees really fast. Go in to work every day assuming that today is your last day there, because one day it will be. The sooner you believe this, the sooner you will be at peace. Additionally, always be thinking about, and potentially even working on, the next chapter in your life.
- Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 2y ago
  I am thinking Bengladesh is among those places where burning out is not an option. Time to re read the Grapes Of Wrath.
BurningFrog 2y ago
Automation is how all industrialized countries got rich. Bangladesh is now ascending up the same path. As the article says: "Increasingly, workers are getting scarce in a country like Bangladesh, where per capita income is increasing."
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  That doesn't square with the rest of the article which says that companies didn't raise wages until the government raised the minimum wage, and that wages are still only half of what the unions say are needed. > workers, union representatives, and academics told Rest of World that wages have increased only because of worker protests, and not smarter factories > Automation is how all industrialized countries got rich. Automation is how industrialized countries increased output and GDP, and it's how shareholders got rich. It's not how workers got rich (because they didn't).
xnx 2y ago
There's a startup for this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850
- PieTime 2y ago
  At least people here pretended to have ethics before. Now mass surveillance and creating AI to suppress dissent in our countries. We’re breaking the encryption of apps that laws have made weakened. Just tow the line until we’re not able to talk about it.
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    There are no good tech companies and never have been. If you disagree, please let me know which companies are.
    - ysofunny 2y ago
      MailChimp?
      - 9283409232 2y ago
        A marketing company that enables mass email spam? I wouldn't say so.
        ysofunny 2y ago
        that's a grim way to put it. but I read that they're not a VC firm which is what I was trying to point at not all email newsletters are spam, sometimes people do want to receive the emails
        9283409232 2y ago
        MailChimp is owned by Intuit who is a massive lobbyist responsible keeping the tax code complicated along with HR Block and I'm sure had a hand in getting IRS Free File killed since they have been trying to do so for years. So no, I would not call them a good company.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
insane_dreamer 2y ago
Driven by large international buyers: > “Buyers are particularly pleased when they see such automation in place,” Shahid told Rest of World. Automation cuts labor costs while improving production, leading to better margins for Urmi, he said. I'm not against automation. It's wonderful, and can improve production and accuracy, and relieve workers of having to perform certain tediously repetitive tasks. The problem is that _all_ of the benefits of automation are reaped by the shareholders, not the workers. Companies could add automation and keep their workers, leading to a happier workforce who can produce with less pressure assisted by automation. But instead, automation is used to _replace_ workers to reduce labor costs, and _increase_ pressure on the remaining workers. It's not the application of automation that is destructive to society, is the distribution of the benefits of automation that is destructive. It could be used as a force for good, but no, we choose to instead use it as a force to accumulate wealth for the few at the expense of the many.
svilen_dobrev 2y ago
not related to article itself: why in HN-headlines the "and" is being turned into comma? it is very confusing most times
- impish9208 2y ago
  I did it because the original title was too long. However, it’s not unusual for news headlines to omit conjunctions, articles, etc. It can definitely sound odd if you’re not a native speaker.
  - recursivecaveat 2y ago
    The "Woman mystery death victim" one I found here is particularly good imo, a real roller-coaster of understanding and confusion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headline#Headlinese https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headline#Headlinese
    - impish9208 2y ago
      Should’ve known there was a Wikipedia article on this style of writing. Thanks :)

81 points by impish9208 2y ago

We're inevitably creating and assembling all the pieces of the dystopian world from Manna[1], as if it were a handbook. The expectation of infinite growth and profit at all costs is going to destroy all but the very, very wealthy. 1: https://marshallbrain.com/manna1 https://marshallbrain.com/manna1

ysofunny 2y ago
all of these enabled by a clear application of distance-abstraction how can the "ultra wealthy" be so evil? they don't even know it, they purposefully do not want to know. they have a thing for being ignorant about whence their wealth comes and how it's handled. all they care is they get the best of everything by my account's handle I should make this funny some how but not today.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  It's useful to think of -The World- as a gigantic factory. But instead of producing products, this factory produces billionaires. The raw materials that go into the factory are money, energy and a few privileged people, the output from the assembly line are billionaires, and the waste product discarded out the back are the worn-out and no-longer-efficient minds and bodies of common workers. If you look at every significant policy decision that gets made in any country (regardless of government type), you will see that they are all in service of keeping this factory running.
smallmancontrov 2y ago
The world is run by the rich, for the rich. Rich people get paid for being rich when there is growth. If real growth can't be had, fake growth (inflation and debt) will do, since it serves the same ultimate purpose just as well: paying rich people for being rich. The beatings will continue until the growth resumes.
- worldsayshi 2y ago
  > The world is run by the rich, for the rich. I sympathize but am extremely frustrated at this defeatist idea. Yes they run it, but only because people in general fail to coordinate around some other way of doing things. It's coordination plain and "simple". The rich doesn't run the world. They tell people what to do and people run the world as they command because there seems to be no better alternative. Why have we stopped trying out better ways to coordinate? We somehow have come to believe that mass coordination outside of corporations can't be improved upon.
  - 3np 2y ago
    > Why have we stopped trying out better ways to coordinate? To a large extent because somehow "that serves no purpose", "any alternative is a scam" and "blockchain evil" propaganda have been very effective in an environment where greed has been distracting too many from the damn point. We need to relearn and establish new ways to run perpetual and huge coordination efforts outside of corporate systems and government without fear or greed as necessary driving forces. The first step is to start trying ans honestly explore options.
    - worldsayshi 2y ago
      > greed has been distracting too many from the damn point I also suspect that another factor is ever increasing acceptance of the immutability of debt. When most people are stuck in debt they have to keep running in the treadmill. Imagine if there was a non-blockable way for everyone to vote on a universal debt cancellation event - "Should we all just from now on ignore any debt incurred before today? ¤ yes, ¤ no".
      - pixl97 2y ago
        >everyone to vote on a universal debt cancellation event Just look at the student loan forgiveness debacle. It seems our population would sooner vote in capital punishment for not paying debt.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

> her target had increased by 75% after Nidle [monitoring] was installed in 2022. ... Although her workload had increased, her earnings remained static until November 2023, when the government raised the minimum wage ... She has stopped using the bathroom to keep up Companies will increase workloads at will but only raise wages when forced to by the government (which is why regulation is so important). > Each machine could replace between one and six workers, and the largest factories surveyed anticipated cutting 22% of their workforce What are all these workers going to do? This relentless pursuit of profit is destroying our societies.

OutOfHere 2y ago

This is how you burn out employees really fast. Go in to work every day assuming that today is your last day there, because one day it will be. The sooner you believe this, the sooner you will be at peace. Additionally, always be thinking about, and potentially even working on, the next chapter in your life.

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 2y ago
I am thinking Bengladesh is among those places where burning out is not an option. Time to re read the Grapes Of Wrath.

BurningFrog 2y ago

Automation is how all industrialized countries got rich. Bangladesh is now ascending up the same path. As the article says: "Increasingly, workers are getting scarce in a country like Bangladesh, where per capita income is increasing."

insane_dreamer 2y ago
That doesn't square with the rest of the article which says that companies didn't raise wages until the government raised the minimum wage, and that wages are still only half of what the unions say are needed. > workers, union representatives, and academics told Rest of World that wages have increased only because of worker protests, and not smarter factories > Automation is how all industrialized countries got rich. Automation is how industrialized countries increased output and GDP, and it's how shareholders got rich. It's not how workers got rich (because they didn't).

xnx 2y ago

There's a startup for this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850

PieTime 2y ago
At least people here pretended to have ethics before. Now mass surveillance and creating AI to suppress dissent in our countries. We’re breaking the encryption of apps that laws have made weakened. Just tow the line until we’re not able to talk about it.
- 9283409232 2y ago
  There are no good tech companies and never have been. If you disagree, please let me know which companies are.
  - ysofunny 2y ago
    MailChimp?
    - 9283409232 2y ago
      A marketing company that enables mass email spam? I wouldn't say so.
      - ysofunny 2y ago
        that's a grim way to put it. but I read that they're not a VC firm which is what I was trying to point at not all email newsletters are spam, sometimes people do want to receive the emails
        9283409232 2y ago
        MailChimp is owned by Intuit who is a massive lobbyist responsible keeping the tax code complicated along with HR Block and I'm sure had a hand in getting IRS Free File killed since they have been trying to do so for years. So no, I would not call them a good company.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

insane_dreamer 2y ago

Driven by large international buyers: > “Buyers are particularly pleased when they see such automation in place,” Shahid told Rest of World. Automation cuts labor costs while improving production, leading to better margins for Urmi, he said. I'm not against automation. It's wonderful, and can improve production and accuracy, and relieve workers of having to perform certain tediously repetitive tasks. The problem is that _all_ of the benefits of automation are reaped by the shareholders, not the workers. Companies could add automation and keep their workers, leading to a happier workforce who can produce with less pressure assisted by automation. But instead, automation is used to _replace_ workers to reduce labor costs, and _increase_ pressure on the remaining workers. It's not the application of automation that is destructive to society, is the distribution of the benefits of automation that is destructive. It could be used as a force for good, but no, we choose to instead use it as a force to accumulate wealth for the few at the expense of the many.

svilen_dobrev 2y ago

not related to article itself: why in HN-headlines the "and" is being turned into comma? it is very confusing most times

impish9208 2y ago
I did it because the original title was too long. However, it’s not unusual for news headlines to omit conjunctions, articles, etc. It can definitely sound odd if you’re not a native speaker.
- recursivecaveat 2y ago
  The "Woman mystery death victim" one I found here is particularly good imo, a real roller-coaster of understanding and confusion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headline#Headlinese https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headline#Headlinese
  - impish9208 2y ago
    Should’ve known there was a Wikipedia article on this style of writing. Thanks :)