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> One alternative would be to prescribe heroin which I think could work We generally accept the principal that making something cheaper and easier results in m
by bko 2y ago
> One alternative would be to prescribe heroin which I think could work
We generally accept the principal that making something cheaper and easier results in more of this behavior. Few examples
- subsidize corn results in more corn products like corn syrup in our food
- make school loans cheaper and more available to students results in more people going to school
- make guns more available and easier to get results in more guns on the street
But when it comes to making it easier for people to fuel their addiction and live a more comfortable life centered around a dangerous chemical, some question that this relationship exists. I've watched videos where someone interviews people on the streets in Philadelphia which provides a lot of services around facilitating drug use and they're just living their life as addicts and pretty much okay with their status quo.
Doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to make the lives of addicts more comfortable. But we should accept the proposition that subsidizing a behavior or lifestyle makes it more common on the margin.
- skyyler 2y agoThe prescribed heroin doesn't need to be cheap or plentiful. It could be the same price as the street stuff. The point is to remove the activity from the criminal underworld. A pharmacist dispensing a medication is much less likely to sexually assault their client than a street level heroin dealer.
- catigula 2y agoMaking criminal activity legal doesn't solve any of their problems except for the only problem that is entirely on them and disincentivizes their destructive behavior.
- skyyler 2y agoHey buddy! Your account is pretty new and seems to be mostly arguing with people. I don't really want to interact with that, so I'm writing this to politely tell you that I'll pass on this discussion with you. Have a good one!
- catigula 2y agoVery strange reply but it's up to you whether or not you'll defend your position, I can't make you. Anyways, just as an aside, I went through your account too and it's mostly just you arguing with people and litigating whether or not you've insulted them. Forums like this largely exist for debate and discussion. It's all encouraged so long as you don't insult people, which some people seem to feel is a line you cross. I also wish you well, though I am a bit weirded out just generally as I'm not used to certain interactions.
- skyyler 2y ago>It's all encouraged so long as you don't insult people, which some people seem to feel is a line you cross. Someone got upset on someone else's behalf when I told them the difference between rogue and rouge. I wasn't insulting anyone, lol. I hope you learn and grow beyond this petty lifestyle. <3
- tristor 2y agoI haven't looked at the other posters comment history (and I rarely would look at anyones), but this is a weird reply to what they said.
- skyyler 2y agoI can feel when people are arguing in bad faith. When I get that feeling, I usually check their account age / history to see if they have a history of arguing in bad faith. It saves me from engaging in energy-draining time-wasting arguments.
- BigGreenJorts 2y agoAlso get to ensure safety and purity of the drugs and instruments. Safe injections sites for example are more about preventing the spread of AIDs, other blood borne infections and reducing/treating overdose than they are about getting people off the drugs. Yes, they form as a space to push towards sobriety, but that is not their actual job (because it literally cannot be).
- soupbowl 2y agoCanada tried "safe supply" giving clean and free drugs to users. It was a mess, this is an example of a "progressive" idea that in practice is terrible for the community.
- skyyler 2y ago"Free drugs" is not what I'm talking about, where did you get that idea?
- vidarh 2y agoThat would be utterly insane. A large part of the problem with heroin is that it consumes addicts lives to get hold of money for it, and to get hold of the drug itself. Last I heard, a typical daily dose of medical grade heroin/diamorphine costs 10-20 pounds from the NHS's existing suppliers (yes, the NHS has suppliers - heroin is used in NHS hospitals for pain management; if you've ever been prescribed diamorphine, it's heroin). All but the very worst affected heroin addicts can lead relatively normal lives if they don't need to worry where their dose will come from. There are significant societal benefits to prescribing heroin as cheaply as possible.
- SpicyLemonZest 2y agoPurdue tried this strategy with oxycodone in the US, and it really did not work out well. Removing the activity from the criminal underworld provides massive incentives for unscrupulous doctors to become pill pushers.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- naasking 2y agoI think there's a reasonable argument that getting yourself into a safe and stable situation even while addicted is a good first step to kicking an addiction.
- bko 2y agoI've heard the opposite, that you have to hit rock bottom and want to change. If your life is sustainable and you get some pleasure from the substance, why quit?
- ziddoap 2y agoWanting to change is a prerequisite for quitting an addictive substance, for sure. But hitting rock bottom is definitely not a prerequisite. For some people, rock bottom might be a bit of a catalyst, triggering them to want to change. But for others, rock bottom can just make things worse and lead to giving up, overdosing, suicide, etc. Unsurprisingly, addiction is a complex issue where the motivations (to start, and to stop) change from person to person.
- bluGill 2y agoSome drugs forever mess with your mind. You will never hit rock bottom because your mind doesn't have power anymore. Some drugs are much worse than others for this.
- deepfriedchokes 2y agoWhich drugs? Just curious. No judgement.
- naasking 2y agoI'm sure that works for some, but others use drugs to escape their outward situation. If their outward situation improves, there's less impetus for escape. There's maybe no one-size-fits-all.
- OtherShrezzing 2y ago>We generally accept the principal that making something cheaper and easier results in more of this behavior.... But when it comes to making it easier for people to fuel their addiction and live a more comfortable life centered around a dangerous chemical, some question that this relationship exists. The fundamental principals of supply and demand assume that the agents participating the market are acting rationally (or approximately close to rational). Those assumptions are strained to their limit when analysing black markets and addictive substances.
- johngladtj 2y agoThere is no such presumption. I can assure you supply and demand works the same way, even when behaving randomly. Perhaps you mean that people don't behave in a way you deem "rational" and that therefore the outcomes are different from what you expect. That is an issue with your model of reality not being accurate, not with the concept of supply and demand.
- bko 2y agoI don't think people that are obese (partly due to corn subsidies) or commit gun violence are acting rationally. Do you still believe that relationships I originally mentioned are strained?
- AngryData 2y agoBut the other extreme of your examples are also bad. No crop subsidies you get farm failures and unreliable food production. Get rid of student loans and many intelligent people end up trapped doing brainless jobs because they lack better qualifications. End gun sales and you can end up with mostly criminal organizations having all the guns and power and leave law abiding people vulnerable like much of Central and South American and large chunks of Africa. There is a good balance point in the middle in most cases, but in the case of homelessness and drug addiction one sides cause usually amounts to not helping anyone and in many times criminalizes their existence making their situation worse and more costly upon them and society as a whole than it already was.
- bluGill 2y ago> one sides This is no one side. (one sides is grammatically incorrect so if you meant plural you need to explain yourself better). People are complex and most people not helping are more centrist or populist, not on some extreme. You can find examples at all extremes of people who help the down and out in significant ways, and others who are doing things that (either directly or indirectly) harm the down and out.
- gedy 2y ago> One alternative would be to prescribe heroin which I think could work Yes, didn't they do just that and cause the recent opioid epidemic with prescriptions? (I know it wasn't Heroin)
- s1artibartfast 2y agoActually, denying prescriptions is part of what caused the opioids epidemic deaths. People went to the street and overdosed on fentanyl. This could have been prevented by Prescribing to addicts while being more selective about new patients.