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Highlighted in earlier reports and included in this APNews brief: In some places, the U.S. air quality monitors propelled nations to start their own air qual

Highlighted in earlier reports and included in this APNews brief: In some places, the U.S. air quality monitors propelled nations to start their own air quality research and raised awareness, Krishna said. In China, for example, data from the U.S. Embassy in Beijing famously contradicted official government reports, showing worse pollution levels than authorities acknowledged. It led to China improving air quality. ( earlier: https://phys.org/news/2025-03-embassies-pollution-popular-china-india.html https://phys.org/news/2025-03-embassies-pollution-popular-ch... + https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43265021 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43265021 ) The United States since 2008 has monitored air quality through embassies—as a service to Americans overseas but also, increasingly, as a way to share accurate scientific data that may otherwise be censored overseas. In China, authorities in 2014 banned a popular app from sharing data from the US embassy ahead of a major international summit attended by then president Barack Obama. But researchers say that the transparency has had a noticeable effect, with China taking action after being embarrassed by US embassy data released on social media that showed far worse pollution than official figures. Obama's ambassador to China, Gary Locke, faced scorn in state media after he presided over the introduction of monitors at the embassy and consulates that tracked the so-called PM 2.5 particulate matter carried in the thick blankets of smog pervading China's capital. The air quality data from the US embassy is also frequently used as a reference in New Delhi, which has severe pollution issues. This is a low cost to gather and deliver data stream that has a profound effect on global air quality and improving health and well being for all.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
> In China, for example, data from the U.S. Embassy in Beijing famously contradicted official government reports, showing worse pollution levels than authorities acknowledged. It led to China improving air quality. That program, by the way, simultaneously managed to antagonize the Chinese government while being incredibly popular with the Chinese people. It's not something I would expect a US administration hostile to China to cut.
- EGreg 2y ago
  Would you expect them to cut the IRS, if they're trying to cut deficits? Obama and Clinton (with Republican congresses) ACTUALLY cut deficits -- Clinton even got a surplus. Bush and Trump extended tax cuts which ballooned them back into trillions (also the trillion-dollar wars). A few quotes: Cheney 2004 about deficits: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" Trump 2017 about deficits: "Yeah, but I won't be here" Clinton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX3a-2yrQwY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX3a-2yrQwY Andrew Samwick, Bush's chief economist: You are smart people. You know that the tax cuts have not fueled record revenues. You know what it takes to establish causality. You know that the first order effect of cutting taxes is to lower tax revenues. We all agree that the ultimate reduction in tax revenues can be less than this first order effect, because lower tax rates encourage greater economic activity and thus expand the tax base. No thoughtful person believes that this possible offset more than compensated for the first effect for these tax cuts. Not a single one. And the Republicans have just done it again! Tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy.
  - jordanb 2y ago
    I kinda feel like you're not being charitable with the OP My read is that the OP is saying that the air quality monitors in China were a massive soft-power win for the US, and it also shamed the Chinese government. So if you start from the assumption that this current administration sees the Chinese government as a rival who should be opposed, then this kind of effort that bypasses the Chinese government and provides a resource to the Chinese people should be supported. If the administration claims to see China as a rival, but then cuts such an obviously beneficial project, reasonably, you gotta wonder if the administration is telling the truth about it's relationship with the Chinese government.
    - llm_nerd 2y ago
      Their argument seems to be that the current administration is playing checkers with tennis rackets on trampolines. Nothing makes sense or actually serves any goals, and are just random child-like stomping and smashing. In this case someone probably saw this as somehow related to "the environment" so it's bad.
speakspokespok 2y ago
Seattle has - once again - entered the chat. Edit: Gary Locke is a former governor of Washington State and a member of of the old guard, a member of the pre-internet Seattle. This is back when South Lake Union (where Amazon is now) was just trees and low rent commercial. It was the site of the local Greyhound bus station. He was the first Asian American governor in the US. While he's not directly Seattle, it was his primary constituency and he married a prominent Seattle TV news caster and former beauty queen. Later, he was the first Asian American ambassador to China, appointed by Barack Obama. His political career ran 30 years and I've heard his name mentioned for most of my life. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Locke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Locke
- kelnos 2y ago
  For starters, don't complain about downvotes. It's boring and lazy. But I think you're actually getting downvoted because your comment has no context. I have no idea what Seattle has to do with any of this; if you'd actually explained what Seattle is doing in this space, it would have been an informative, useful comment that could teach people something, and lead to more interesting discussion. But as-is, your comment is just a drive-by, low-effort nothing.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - irjustin 2y ago
    I downvoted because it's exactly as you say.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
  What does any of this have to do with anything?
- eddythompson80 2y ago
  Not really sure what any of that has to do with anything. Seattle is second only to San Francisco in list of blue voting cities that have failed in addressing every single social problem over the last 25 years. Seattle political class and scene is one of the worst grifters in the country. They are just “blue” grifters, so we can’t criticize them despite their abysmal track record.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
We were living in Beijing when that happened, and you cannot underestimate the impact that it had. It ultimately forced the Chinese government to publish the actual air quality data which in turn forced it to take significant action to improve air quality in Beijing.
- andsoitis 2y ago
  Do you think Beijing will stop publishing actual and correct air quality data now?
  - yard2010 2y ago
    If there is no other source of truth it's easier for the government to change the data rather than the actual air quality.
  - maxglute 2y ago
    Everyone and their dog has air purifiers that measure AQI and PM2.5 in Chinese cities now.
  - tellarin 2y ago
    They already do, in a sense. The scale used here is different from the internationally used and the categories imply lesser health effects.
    - homebrewer 2y ago
      To be slightly more specific, Chinese authorities consider PM2.5 levels of ≤70 mcg/m³ as safe, while by EU standards that same pollution level is considered "extreme". The WHO yearly recommended limit is 5 mcg/m³, by the way.
      - insane_dreamer 2y ago
        To give you an idea of the difference in perception. When we lived in Beijing, anything below 150 mcg/m3 was a "good day", <50 was "amazing". We didn't start taking any precautions like closing windows until it was >250. We stayed indoors when it was >400 or >500.
yard2010 2y ago
So, it's just enshitification. The failing-up kind. Enshitification ensues.
- bolognafairy 2y ago
  No. Can we please not look for places to call enshitification with such desperation that the word looses all meaning?
  - altacc 2y ago
    They've enshitified enshitification ;)
mytailorisrich 2y ago
This is still mission creep even if it is a low cost. In fact this often how focus is lost and costs accumulate... It is not embassies' role to provide this service. It is quite reasonable to stop. Of course people will argue that it was perhaps useful to the people of Beijing, New Delhi, etc. but the real question is what does this have to do with US embassies and the US government?
- WhitneyLand 2y ago
  So do you also disagree with the premise of the government providing to this service, or only that it’s not the stated role of embassies to do it? In deciding it’s quite reasonable to stop, is the thinking that “mission creep” = bad, so it justifies stopping something regardless of the big picture benefits? Or do you not consider the benefits significant? Given a business with many departments, say you notice one department has some mission creep but somehow it’s also increasing profitability for the company overall. What do you focus on - only mentioning stopping the department mission creep, or first mentioning people should make damn sure the value is preserved as they consider any reorganization?
  - mytailorisrich 2y ago
    I do not know the benefits, if any. But that's actually besides the point, which is mission and scope. It is not the job of the US government (or of any foreign governments) to provide air quality data in cities around the world and so I find it reasonable if they decide to stop. That's all. I feel the reactions are much too strong and emotional, probably because many people here have been riled up by Trump and Musk so now overreact to anything they announce.
    - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
      It costs almost nothing, it helps people around the world, and it creates good will for the US.
- mrweasel 2y ago
  > It is not embassies' role to provide this service It is the job of an embassy to provide it's nation with travel advise and recommendations. If the host nation cannot be trusted to provide accurate information about air pollution, then the embassies must do it. I'd agree that it's not the embassies job to inform the citizens of host nation with the data, but that's practically free, once you are already distributing the info to you own people. What I don't understand is, if it's that useful, could some other embassies not just do the work? The US normally have fairly well staffed embassies, not just some dude in a suit, but surely the WHO could locate appropriate embassies in almost any nation.
ukoki 2y ago
I remember living in Beijing when the US Embassary Air Quality Twitter account tweeted "Error: value above measurable range" (paraphrasing) -- that was a fun day.
- tellarin 2y ago
  That really made China move. Both in blocking some social media and taking more action to improve air quality.
  - cloudbonsai 2y ago
    I like the take of System Science researchers on this matter -- they say that air/water quality monitoring works exactly because it introduces a feedback loop in the existing system. Here is a relevant anecodote from Prof. Donella Meadows (who was a major proponent of environemental quality watches): During the oil embargo and energy crisis of the early 1970s, the Dutch began to pay close attention to their energy use. It was discovered that some of the houses in this subdivision used one-third less electricity than the other houses. No one could explain this. All houses were charged the same price for electricity, all contained similar families. The difference, it turned out, was in the position of the electric meter. The families with high electricity use were the ones with the meter in the basement, where people rarely saw it. The ones with low use had the meter in the front hall where people passed, the little wheel turning around, adding up the monthly electricity bill many times a day. Adding a quick, tight feedback loop is often a high-ROI way to change the behavior of goverments (or people in general).
    - djmips 2y ago
      I wish the same tight feedback loop existed for memory usage and performance for all coders.
martin_a 2y ago
> improving health and well being for all Yeah, to me it looks like that is not fine under the new administration. If it would help only Americans, or those in power at least, it would be okay, but something for all the humans? Naaah...
- yapyap 2y ago
  Or, or they don’t want to go against countries like China anymore
  - lukan 2y ago
    You mean they don't want to embarass other dictatorships anymore, by sharing even simple things such as actual air quality data? In my understanding it is not an attack on the country of china, to show their population a glimpse of truth. It is maybe a slight attack on their government. But governments are not the same as the country, even though governments tend to disagree.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > In my understanding it is not an attack on the country of china, to show their population a glimpse of truth. When one country wants to give the population of another "a glimpse of truth", no matter how well meaning, it's usually seen as a threat to the nations sovereignty, for better or worse. As it stands right now, the US are no longer interested in either being in opposition to warmongering countries (Russia) nor stand up against countries it sees as oppressive to it's own population (China), it's clearly heading down a road of self-isolation which makes sense when you consider the ultimate goal of the current regime.
      - notahacker 2y ago
        I think even that gives too much credit. Trump loves being antagonistic towards China (even though with the big picture of how much damage he's doing to global perceptions of technology, the reliability of the US as a trading partner and Western alliances they really don't mind) and actively threatening the national sovereignty of random smaller countries that won't respond. But air quality is the sort of thing than libs care about, so from the point of view of his administration this woke nonsense must be stopped
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
A device to measure PM 2.5 costs $5 ... anyone can buy it and publish results. Why embassy is needed?
- libertine 2y ago
  This goes beyond the device, it was about who was sharing the data: the US, which used to be a former global reference that was credible, reliable, and trustworthy with some good intentions towards Western ideals and progress. That's now gone, but hopefully others will fill that void.
- willvarfar 2y ago
  People _trusted_ the US published official numbers. Trust takes a lifetime to earn and a moment to lose. It's a shame.
- psychlops 2y ago
  It's not needed. It's just easier if americans pay for things.
andrepd 2y ago
You know, I have 1 litmus test that instantly lets me distinguish between capital-c Conservatives, and just plain reactionaries: how they feel about environmentalism. If you're a conservative you have to care about preserving nature, the environment, clean air, outdoor spaces, etc. But if instead you're enthusiastic about coal, highway widenings, and your emotional support truck, you're just a base reactionary.
blitzar 2y ago
> This is a low cost I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that these devices are a) not _that_ low cost and b) contain a wide array of intelligence sensors (think RadNet but on steroids). The underlying programme will continue and will expand, at least it should. Slapping a box with some sensors on a network of properties you have all round the world is an incredibly good and ultimately non-fraudlent, non-abusive and non-wasteful way of spending money.
xnx 2y ago
"...reality has a well-known liberal bias..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Colbert_at_the_2006_White_House_Correspondents%27_Dinner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Colbert_at_the_2006_Wh...

thaumasiotes 2y ago

> In China, for example, data from the U.S. Embassy in Beijing famously contradicted official government reports, showing worse pollution levels than authorities acknowledged. It led to China improving air quality. That program, by the way, simultaneously managed to antagonize the Chinese government while being incredibly popular with the Chinese people. It's not something I would expect a US administration hostile to China to cut.

EGreg 2y ago
Would you expect them to cut the IRS, if they're trying to cut deficits? Obama and Clinton (with Republican congresses) ACTUALLY cut deficits -- Clinton even got a surplus. Bush and Trump extended tax cuts which ballooned them back into trillions (also the trillion-dollar wars). A few quotes: Cheney 2004 about deficits: "Reagan proved deficits don't matter" Trump 2017 about deficits: "Yeah, but I won't be here" Clinton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX3a-2yrQwY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX3a-2yrQwY Andrew Samwick, Bush's chief economist: You are smart people. You know that the tax cuts have not fueled record revenues. You know what it takes to establish causality. You know that the first order effect of cutting taxes is to lower tax revenues. We all agree that the ultimate reduction in tax revenues can be less than this first order effect, because lower tax rates encourage greater economic activity and thus expand the tax base. No thoughtful person believes that this possible offset more than compensated for the first effect for these tax cuts. Not a single one. And the Republicans have just done it again! Tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy.
- jordanb 2y ago
  I kinda feel like you're not being charitable with the OP My read is that the OP is saying that the air quality monitors in China were a massive soft-power win for the US, and it also shamed the Chinese government. So if you start from the assumption that this current administration sees the Chinese government as a rival who should be opposed, then this kind of effort that bypasses the Chinese government and provides a resource to the Chinese people should be supported. If the administration claims to see China as a rival, but then cuts such an obviously beneficial project, reasonably, you gotta wonder if the administration is telling the truth about it's relationship with the Chinese government.
  - llm_nerd 2y ago
    Their argument seems to be that the current administration is playing checkers with tennis rackets on trampolines. Nothing makes sense or actually serves any goals, and are just random child-like stomping and smashing. In this case someone probably saw this as somehow related to "the environment" so it's bad.

speakspokespok 2y ago

Seattle has - once again - entered the chat. Edit: Gary Locke is a former governor of Washington State and a member of of the old guard, a member of the pre-internet Seattle. This is back when South Lake Union (where Amazon is now) was just trees and low rent commercial. It was the site of the local Greyhound bus station. He was the first Asian American governor in the US. While he's not directly Seattle, it was his primary constituency and he married a prominent Seattle TV news caster and former beauty queen. Later, he was the first Asian American ambassador to China, appointed by Barack Obama. His political career ran 30 years and I've heard his name mentioned for most of my life. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Locke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Locke

kelnos 2y ago
For starters, don't complain about downvotes. It's boring and lazy. But I think you're actually getting downvoted because your comment has no context. I have no idea what Seattle has to do with any of this; if you'd actually explained what Seattle is doing in this space, it would have been an informative, useful comment that could teach people something, and lead to more interesting discussion. But as-is, your comment is just a drive-by, low-effort nothing.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- irjustin 2y ago
  I downvoted because it's exactly as you say.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
BugsJustFindMe 2y ago
What does any of this have to do with anything?
eddythompson80 2y ago
Not really sure what any of that has to do with anything. Seattle is second only to San Francisco in list of blue voting cities that have failed in addressing every single social problem over the last 25 years. Seattle political class and scene is one of the worst grifters in the country. They are just “blue” grifters, so we can’t criticize them despite their abysmal track record.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

We were living in Beijing when that happened, and you cannot underestimate the impact that it had. It ultimately forced the Chinese government to publish the actual air quality data which in turn forced it to take significant action to improve air quality in Beijing.

andsoitis 2y ago
Do you think Beijing will stop publishing actual and correct air quality data now?
- yard2010 2y ago
  If there is no other source of truth it's easier for the government to change the data rather than the actual air quality.
- maxglute 2y ago
  Everyone and their dog has air purifiers that measure AQI and PM2.5 in Chinese cities now.
- tellarin 2y ago
  They already do, in a sense. The scale used here is different from the internationally used and the categories imply lesser health effects.
  - homebrewer 2y ago
    To be slightly more specific, Chinese authorities consider PM2.5 levels of ≤70 mcg/m³ as safe, while by EU standards that same pollution level is considered "extreme". The WHO yearly recommended limit is 5 mcg/m³, by the way.
    - insane_dreamer 2y ago
      To give you an idea of the difference in perception. When we lived in Beijing, anything below 150 mcg/m3 was a "good day", <50 was "amazing". We didn't start taking any precautions like closing windows until it was >250. We stayed indoors when it was >400 or >500.

yard2010 2y ago

So, it's just enshitification. The failing-up kind. Enshitification ensues.

bolognafairy 2y ago
No. Can we please not look for places to call enshitification with such desperation that the word looses all meaning?
- altacc 2y ago
  They've enshitified enshitification ;)

mytailorisrich 2y ago

This is still mission creep even if it is a low cost. In fact this often how focus is lost and costs accumulate... It is not embassies' role to provide this service. It is quite reasonable to stop. Of course people will argue that it was perhaps useful to the people of Beijing, New Delhi, etc. but the real question is what does this have to do with US embassies and the US government?

WhitneyLand 2y ago
So do you also disagree with the premise of the government providing to this service, or only that it’s not the stated role of embassies to do it? In deciding it’s quite reasonable to stop, is the thinking that “mission creep” = bad, so it justifies stopping something regardless of the big picture benefits? Or do you not consider the benefits significant? Given a business with many departments, say you notice one department has some mission creep but somehow it’s also increasing profitability for the company overall. What do you focus on - only mentioning stopping the department mission creep, or first mentioning people should make damn sure the value is preserved as they consider any reorganization?
- mytailorisrich 2y ago
  I do not know the benefits, if any. But that's actually besides the point, which is mission and scope. It is not the job of the US government (or of any foreign governments) to provide air quality data in cities around the world and so I find it reasonable if they decide to stop. That's all. I feel the reactions are much too strong and emotional, probably because many people here have been riled up by Trump and Musk so now overreact to anything they announce.
  - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
    It costs almost nothing, it helps people around the world, and it creates good will for the US.
mrweasel 2y ago
> It is not embassies' role to provide this service It is the job of an embassy to provide it's nation with travel advise and recommendations. If the host nation cannot be trusted to provide accurate information about air pollution, then the embassies must do it. I'd agree that it's not the embassies job to inform the citizens of host nation with the data, but that's practically free, once you are already distributing the info to you own people. What I don't understand is, if it's that useful, could some other embassies not just do the work? The US normally have fairly well staffed embassies, not just some dude in a suit, but surely the WHO could locate appropriate embassies in almost any nation.

ukoki 2y ago

I remember living in Beijing when the US Embassary Air Quality Twitter account tweeted "Error: value above measurable range" (paraphrasing) -- that was a fun day.

tellarin 2y ago
That really made China move. Both in blocking some social media and taking more action to improve air quality.
- cloudbonsai 2y ago
  I like the take of System Science researchers on this matter -- they say that air/water quality monitoring works exactly because it introduces a feedback loop in the existing system. Here is a relevant anecodote from Prof. Donella Meadows (who was a major proponent of environemental quality watches): During the oil embargo and energy crisis of the early 1970s, the Dutch began to pay close attention to their energy use. It was discovered that some of the houses in this subdivision used one-third less electricity than the other houses. No one could explain this. All houses were charged the same price for electricity, all contained similar families. The difference, it turned out, was in the position of the electric meter. The families with high electricity use were the ones with the meter in the basement, where people rarely saw it. The ones with low use had the meter in the front hall where people passed, the little wheel turning around, adding up the monthly electricity bill many times a day. Adding a quick, tight feedback loop is often a high-ROI way to change the behavior of goverments (or people in general).
  - djmips 2y ago
    I wish the same tight feedback loop existed for memory usage and performance for all coders.

martin_a 2y ago

> improving health and well being for all Yeah, to me it looks like that is not fine under the new administration. If it would help only Americans, or those in power at least, it would be okay, but something for all the humans? Naaah...

yapyap 2y ago
Or, or they don’t want to go against countries like China anymore
- lukan 2y ago
  You mean they don't want to embarass other dictatorships anymore, by sharing even simple things such as actual air quality data? In my understanding it is not an attack on the country of china, to show their population a glimpse of truth. It is maybe a slight attack on their government. But governments are not the same as the country, even though governments tend to disagree.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > In my understanding it is not an attack on the country of china, to show their population a glimpse of truth. When one country wants to give the population of another "a glimpse of truth", no matter how well meaning, it's usually seen as a threat to the nations sovereignty, for better or worse. As it stands right now, the US are no longer interested in either being in opposition to warmongering countries (Russia) nor stand up against countries it sees as oppressive to it's own population (China), it's clearly heading down a road of self-isolation which makes sense when you consider the ultimate goal of the current regime.
    - notahacker 2y ago
      I think even that gives too much credit. Trump loves being antagonistic towards China (even though with the big picture of how much damage he's doing to global perceptions of technology, the reliability of the US as a trading partner and Western alliances they really don't mind) and actively threatening the national sovereignty of random smaller countries that won't respond. But air quality is the sort of thing than libs care about, so from the point of view of his administration this woke nonsense must be stopped

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago

A device to measure PM 2.5 costs $5 ... anyone can buy it and publish results. Why embassy is needed?

libertine 2y ago
This goes beyond the device, it was about who was sharing the data: the US, which used to be a former global reference that was credible, reliable, and trustworthy with some good intentions towards Western ideals and progress. That's now gone, but hopefully others will fill that void.
willvarfar 2y ago
People _trusted_ the US published official numbers. Trust takes a lifetime to earn and a moment to lose. It's a shame.
psychlops 2y ago
It's not needed. It's just easier if americans pay for things.

andrepd 2y ago

You know, I have 1 litmus test that instantly lets me distinguish between capital-c Conservatives, and just plain reactionaries: how they feel about environmentalism. If you're a conservative you have to care about preserving nature, the environment, clean air, outdoor spaces, etc. But if instead you're enthusiastic about coal, highway widenings, and your emotional support truck, you're just a base reactionary.

blitzar 2y ago

> This is a low cost I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that these devices are a) not _that_ low cost and b) contain a wide array of intelligence sensors (think RadNet but on steroids). The underlying programme will continue and will expand, at least it should. Slapping a box with some sensors on a network of properties you have all round the world is an incredibly good and ultimately non-fraudlent, non-abusive and non-wasteful way of spending money.

xnx 2y ago

"...reality has a well-known liberal bias..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Colbert_at_the_2006_White_House_Correspondents%27_Dinner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Colbert_at_the_2006_Wh...