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I am very glad they are doing this as a UK based ADP user. Waiting to see how long before they forcibly turn it off for existing users. I will of course just re
by ohgr 2y ago
I am very glad they are doing this as a UK based ADP user. Waiting to see how long before they forcibly turn it off for existing users. I will of course just remove everything from iCloud at that point.
- kennysoona 2y agoIt's not like you can use an alternative without facing jail time if you don't give up the keys.
- ben_w 2y agoThat's still a big improvement. A backdoor can be exploited by criminals who want personal gain, not just used as intended by police.
- ohgr 2y agoIndeed. But you can of course say "show me the court order" and defend yourself.
- kennysoona 2y agoIs a court order explicitly needed in the UK to demand a key?
- OsrsNeedsf2P 2y agoNot in the UK. In fact there's precedence they can arrest you for not unlocking your devices, without a warrant[0] [0] https://www.independent.co.ug/activist-convicted-uk-terror-offence-refusing-unlock-phone/ https://www.independent.co.ug/activist-convicted-uk-terror-o...
- ohgr 2y agoThey can arrest you for anything. I’ve been arrested twice. And questioned once. And apologised to twice.
- 77pt77 2y agoapologised?! Surely you're joking! No way that really happened or it was an empty apology like. > I'm sorry you made yourself suspicious
- Braxton1980 2y agoHe didn't even explain why he was arrested or what he was suspected of
- ohgr 2y agoFirst time I was arrested for being next to a fight until I was cleared of any involvement. This required some explaining and the policeman was an idiot. Second time some busybody reported to the police that I was carrying a knife. This was a Santoku knife that I'd literally bought and was still in the plastic packaging but you could see it through the plastic bag I was carrying it in. We had a bit of a laugh about it and they apologised for wasting my time. They did however arrest me so that they could do a formal search and had right to as they had reasonable suspicion I was carrying it as a weapon. I'm not bothered they were very reasonable and so was I.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 2y ago
- gambiting 2y agoIf you are stopped at the border then you don't have such a right. British border force can just demand you give them keys to all your devices and hold them for 7 days, no court order needed. Watch this if you're curious how that looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=991kRp8KUmo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=991kRp8KUmo
- lucb1e 2y agoThe part that stood out to me, copying from the automatic transcript: > they're sitting there with these like blank A4 Bits of Paper writing down everything I'm telling them like you know bits of interest and it's exactly the same thing the Russians did when they interrogated me [...] to be honest interactions with the Russians have been pretty much the same as inter with the British government I didn't do my research before going to the UK for the first time two months ago and just went with my gut feeling, that is, deleting files from my phone that I don't want to end up in a government system through Cellebrite's "accelerated justice" or whatnot. Never done this for any other country before (I cross borders on a weekly basis). Seeing this video and the Ugandan article from the sibling comment, that was definitely the right move
- Marsymars 2y agoI don’t know of any country where border guards don’t have the authority to seize your device if you’re trying to cross. I just use devices with ephemeral storage for crossing borders to save myself from having to do any research on any particular country’s device privacy practices.
- lucb1e 2y agoThen I'm not sure what we're criticizing China for, if no country has such fundamental rights for the people under its control. The warrant system exists for a reason. I'm not more likely to be carrying something illegal when going between countries than within the jurisdiction where my registered place of residence is; less if anything because there might be spot checking indeed
- 2y ago
- cpressland 2y agoThis is correct - but I’d rather my law enforcement had a pre-existing reason to investigate me rather than just stumbling upon something in random hidden searches. Innocent until proven guilty is key here. I have nothing to hide, but I’m still not giving you access to my photo library.
- Braxton1980 2y ago[flagged]
- willk 2y agoBecause they can.
- Braxton1980 2y agoSo they randomly picked a person to search?
- reaperducer 2y agoNever been across an international border?
- yreg 2y agoSpeaking of which, iOS needs to finally support user accounts, ideally hidden ones as well.
- ethagnawl 2y agoThey have a jealous ex who is a LEO.
- bdamm 2y agoYou seem to think that the indexing and searching happens only if there is a reason. Why do you think that? There are all kinds of cases where government agents were found to have abused access to data for reasons that had nothing to do with illegal or immoral behavior by a target.
- PaulRobinson 2y agoThe penalty for not giving up keys is max 2 years in prison. Most offences that they're trying to use the encrypted data to use as prosecution evidence (for example, child pornography), have penalties that are way more than 2 years in prison. If you're genuinely innocent, the 2 years is horrid. If you're actually guilty, it's a cheap way to serve your time. It's a weird and perverse law that shouldn't exist, but it's likely in time the government will need to move the needle one way or the other, as habitual criminals are getting used to doing the maths.
- llm_trw 2y agoThis comes up every time someone wants to give the death penalty for rape. If the punishment for rape is harsher than the punishment for murder than anyone committing it may as well remove the evidence by using a blender.
- robocat 2y agoIs there a academic study of the heuristic of choosing between option A versus option B? People (even criminals) are not perfectly economic thinkers. That's probably a good thing. I have this terrible thought of a quant rapist: juggling their risk that the victim stays quiet or otherwise acts (police or revenge). Deciding on the Kelly Criterion for losing 20 years in prison. I'd watch a movie about a killer using statistics properly. It is annoying when muderers are cast as being idiots. I imagine the protagonist runs a hedge fund and gets bored of getting away with white collar crime.
- chii 2y ago> People (even criminals) are not perfectly economic thinkers. That's probably a good thing. why is that a good thing? Perfect economic thinkers are good, because they'd be predictable and can be reasoned with. Providing economic incentives to such means you can direct behaviour in an easy and efficient way. Irrational thinkers cannot be reasoned with via economic rationality. Therefore, either you have to stack the incentives so high that the cost becomes overbearing, or you use some other means of control that's less nice.
- teekert 2y agoReally? So you can have your own Nextcloud server, connect over Tailscale and you’d face jail-time? I can’t imagine that.
- kennysoona 2y agoThe law is about making sure the UK government has access to your encrypted data if they want it. It doesn't only apply to big corporate solutions.
- teekert 2y agoWtf. What is next, my thoughts? Who are these people? Thinking they can outlaw basic maths operations.
- DeepSeaTortoise 2y agoLook up "decolonize math" or "critical mathematics".
- jackjeff 2y agoThat’s not necessarily true. RIPA notices do indeed assume you’re in possession of the keys of anything encrypted and you must disclose when asked nicely. You just need an airtight provable way of showing you have a way to destroy that key when you push a button and do that before the notice arrive. I suspect that’s after they seize your stuff.
- volemo 2y agoI can be criminally charged for encrypting my data (and keeping it encrypted)? That’s mental! Guess, I better delete that big file of random numbers from my computer.
- kennysoona 2y ago> I can be criminally charged for encrypting my data (and keeping it encrypted)? That’s mental! That's the UK.
- v3xro 2y agoYes, and they have the resources to go after every (former) user of ADP. </s>
- like_any_other 2y agoBut then you will know they are spying on you - they won't be able to do it secretly.
- sieabahlpark 2y ago[dead]
- justinclift 2y ago> I will of course just remove everything from iCloud at that point. The iPhone's backup utility doesn't seem to support anything other than iCloud, so you'd probably have to individually set up some kind of automated scheduling that (no idea how) for your main apps. Not sure if you'd be able to backup system stuff though. :(
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ohgr 2y agoI don't backup my phone anyway. There's nothing I can't replace in about 30 minutes work.
- lang4d 2y agoDo you save photos and messages somewhere?
- treesknees 2y agoIt's not automated but you can certainly still use iTunes to create a local encrypted backup of the entire phone, apps, and data. Works over USB and Wirelessly on the same network. People who decide not to use iCloud can certainly still keep their data safe.
- int_19h 2y agoOn a Mac, at least, by default it backs up to a location that then gets included into Mac's own Time Machine backup, if that is set up.
- GeekyBear 2y agoOn a Mac, creating encrypted local backups of your iOS device is built into MacOS. On Windows, you create an encrypted local backup of your iOS device using iTunes. It backs up everything. OS, Apps, and data.
- Obscurity4340 2y agoI wonder how the metadata comes into play here. Metadata is fair game even with ADP. Apple retains it and could probably be compelled to pass that along
- HexPhantom 2y agoYet I don't have much faith that the UK government will back down