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It's one thing to stop all aid to Ukraine. That makes you an asshole in a world full of assholes. But it's another thing to do that while simultaneously working

It's one thing to stop all aid to Ukraine. That makes you an asshole in a world full of assholes. But it's another thing to do that while simultaneously working to restore relations with Russia. There is only one word for that: evil. Back in the late 90s to late 2000s, people in Western Europe generally had pretty negative views of the US. It was the country that refused to fight against climate change, launched an invasion of another country based on obvious lies, and so on. People were genuinely debating whether Bush was a bigger villain than Putin. And it wasn't just about the young and the left. Our elites hated Bush so much that they gave the next guy a Nobel Peace Prize for not being him. Since then, Putin has worked hard to raise the bar for being a bigger villain. But Trump seems to be genuinely trying to compete.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
Why do people think it is so far fetched that Trump is a Russian asset given his behavior in his last term (trying to blackmail Zelenskyy on an official call) and his credit problems in the past (no banks would lend to him given his failure to pay back any loan, with the exception of an obscure channel through a German bank)? Perhaps Trump is just in debt to Putin and this is payback, he was intentionally crass to Zelenskyy because he wanted to provoke him and find an excuse to revoke US aid. If it barks like a dog, often it’s really a dog.
- salynchnew 2y ago
  I don't go in for most conspiracy theories, but there is this: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/17/deutsche-bank-faces-action-over-20bn-russian-money-laundering-scheme https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/17/deutsche-ba... (second half of the article)
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    The MAGA crowd literally is all about conspiracy theories, heck, Trump is the head conspiracy theorist-and-chief.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  The phone was a domestic politics issue. Actual Russian assets exist, people like Jackson Hinkle and Tim Pool. Trump generally doesn't fit the mold.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    A good method is to make predictions based on an assumption. A month ago, a CRAZY prediction of actions if Trump was a Russian agent would be: Active attempts to remove Zelinsky. Stop all aid. Remove sanctions on Russia. Stop are cyber activity and planning of such against Russia. Trump has done all of the above (well he's only ordered the removing of sanctions as of today).
    - card_zero 2y ago
      Would Russian oil, which I seem to remember is heavy in grade, replace Canadian oil, which I hear is similarly heavy, in US refineries, explaining the 25% tariff on Canada which is implausibly supposed to be about fentanyl controls?
      - throwaway48476 2y ago
        It would need to be transported by ship which presents some problems. Canadian oil has pipelines which are very cheap.
- bradhe 2y ago
  People don’t want to admit it.
- tim333 2y ago
  I don't know how you define asset but it seems beyond doubt that Trump and Russia do each other favours.
- citrin_ru 2y ago
  It's plausible that Trump owes some $$$ but what would stop Trump from just refusing to pay the debt back?
  - ty6853 2y ago
    It would come as no surprise if Russian intelligence has some juicy blackmail material.
    - gruez 2y ago
      Against the man that seemingly suffered no setback from "grab her by the pussy" and all the various lawsuits?
      - Henchman21 2y ago
        Yes. For example if he were caught in the act with other men? That might cause the MAGAs to turn on him.
      - jajko 2y ago
        Imagine having fun with animals, men, children, bsdm and so on. That's not even bottom of the pit. I mean he was a good friend with epstein and there are numerous videos of their friendly encounters (so did clinton, gates and so on just to be clear). Go figure. But I think he is just a small insecure emotional boy at the core, and thats enough if you know which buttons in which order to push. ruskies somehow figured that out, it seems israelis too during his first term.
        csa 2y ago
        > Imagine having fun with animals, men, children, bsdm and so on. That's not even bottom of the pit. Other than children/minors, I don’t think the others are likely. Possible, but not likely. Whatever kompromat they have was almost certainly came during the 2013 miss universe pageant in Russia. It would have been trivially easy to get an old enough-looking minor in the room with him.
      - 2y ago
- mandmandam 2y ago
  They (the GOP, Democrats, national and intl intelligence agencies) all have blackmail on each other. It hasn't made sense to think about these issues purely on national lines for a long time - try thinking in terms of a large international mafia with various families and factions; held together by unspeakable secrets. Sarah Kendzior and Whitney Webb produce great writing about this, thoroughly sourced. For example, here's a piece from Sarah's latest newsletter Q and A: > What is the hold that Trump has over the Republicans? It has to be more than simply the threat of a primary. Do you think it involves threats of violence? It's a mystery to me what could be so frightening that this large group of people would forsake their country. > SK: Trump has leverage over the GOP due to 1) lifelong connections with organized crime and willingness to deploy violence 2) blackmail obtained long before 2016 via his mentor, mafia lawyer and GOP advisor Roy Cohn, and Cohn’s networks 3) blackmail and state secrets Trump obtained during his first term 4) court packing that creates the potential of legal consequences for anyone who challenges him 5) bribery and/or shared evil goals with the GOP, though for many this incentive fades over time when they realize they will never be more than a disposable hired hand. Many Republicans were lured by corrupt ambition, but they stay due to fear. And lest you think this is a one-sided problem: https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/servants-of-the-mafia-state https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/servants-of-the-mafia-s...
  - NeutralCrane 2y ago
    Lmao, this is the dumbest conspiracy theory I’ve read in a while. National politicians are afraid of being murdered by the Mafia on Trump’s orders? Good grief. Even if you put the absurdity of that kind of thing aside, look at the actual facts. Trump burns through advisors and cabinet members on a nearly weekly basis, and many of those have gone on to become scathing critics of his. He has tons of vocal enemies from within the Republican Party, who are quickly sidelined or ousted but never harmed. The reason Republicans have all fallen in line behind Trump is because they ultimately want nothing more than power and wealth. Once it became clear that Trump has tapped into an indestructible movement of American populist stupidity that isn’t going anywhere, anyone who wanted to have a job in Republican politics quickly figured out that there was only one way to do so: join the never ending Trump pep-rally.
- nprateem 2y ago
  It's the only explanation that makes any sense. But it wouldn't be a financial debt more likely some humiliating kompromat. That's Trump's biggest fear. And Putin probably has plenty from Trump's visits there.
  - justin66 2y ago
    I think Trump would happily sell out the United States for a few billion dollars pumped into his memecoin (or whatever).
  - bamboozled 2y ago
    What could they have on him that would matter? Honestly? I don't really buy this kompromat argument, even if it was some horrific sex tape it would just be "fake" or "fake news". I think it's likely just the flattery and importance they give him, the strongman image he desires and he likes the way Russia is a dictatorship. I just think he likes their system.
stefantalpalaru 2y ago
[dead]
narrator 2y ago
We allied with Stalin in world war III, now that's evil. Putin will be a good ally against China, who is an actual threat to the United States.
- 9dev 2y ago
  An ally that has broken pretty much any agreement he has ever made, invades neighbouring countries and spins alternative facts around to justify it, suppresses and fights just about any values that the USA used to hold, and played a key role in the KGB, a hostile secret service? An ally that is ever more dependent on China economically? I refuse to believe you can be so dense to actually think that!
  - wewxjfq 2y ago
    It's so heavily being pushed on social media right now, I suspect it's coming from the same forces who tried to make people believe that Trump would deliver more weapons to Ukraine and that Trump would be the better option for Palestine.
- wewxjfq 2y ago
  Let me quote Harry S. Truman: > If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible.
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  Putin ally against China? He's the one who signed a "no limits" friendship deal with Xi Xinping. China and Russia are intimate trading partners and they have shared geopolitical interests. Why would he object if China wants to take over Taiwan or something?
  - narrator 2y ago
    Russia and Germany signed the non-aggression pact.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
Aeolun 2y ago
If this were the 70s, Trump would have been arrested as a soviet spy...
linotype 2y ago
Europeans have hated Americans for a while. It’s about time we listen to Europeans and stop helping them with defense.
SergeAx 2y ago
> There is only one word for that: evil. There is another: treason.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago

Why do people think it is so far fetched that Trump is a Russian asset given his behavior in his last term (trying to blackmail Zelenskyy on an official call) and his credit problems in the past (no banks would lend to him given his failure to pay back any loan, with the exception of an obscure channel through a German bank)? Perhaps Trump is just in debt to Putin and this is payback, he was intentionally crass to Zelenskyy because he wanted to provoke him and find an excuse to revoke US aid. If it barks like a dog, often it’s really a dog.

salynchnew 2y ago
I don't go in for most conspiracy theories, but there is this: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/17/deutsche-bank-faces-action-over-20bn-russian-money-laundering-scheme https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/17/deutsche-ba... (second half of the article)
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  The MAGA crowd literally is all about conspiracy theories, heck, Trump is the head conspiracy theorist-and-chief.
throwaway48476 2y ago
The phone was a domestic politics issue. Actual Russian assets exist, people like Jackson Hinkle and Tim Pool. Trump generally doesn't fit the mold.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  A good method is to make predictions based on an assumption. A month ago, a CRAZY prediction of actions if Trump was a Russian agent would be: Active attempts to remove Zelinsky. Stop all aid. Remove sanctions on Russia. Stop are cyber activity and planning of such against Russia. Trump has done all of the above (well he's only ordered the removing of sanctions as of today).
  - card_zero 2y ago
    Would Russian oil, which I seem to remember is heavy in grade, replace Canadian oil, which I hear is similarly heavy, in US refineries, explaining the 25% tariff on Canada which is implausibly supposed to be about fentanyl controls?
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      It would need to be transported by ship which presents some problems. Canadian oil has pipelines which are very cheap.
bradhe 2y ago
People don’t want to admit it.
tim333 2y ago
I don't know how you define asset but it seems beyond doubt that Trump and Russia do each other favours.
citrin_ru 2y ago
It's plausible that Trump owes some $$$ but what would stop Trump from just refusing to pay the debt back?
- ty6853 2y ago
  It would come as no surprise if Russian intelligence has some juicy blackmail material.
  - gruez 2y ago
    Against the man that seemingly suffered no setback from "grab her by the pussy" and all the various lawsuits?
    - Henchman21 2y ago
      Yes. For example if he were caught in the act with other men? That might cause the MAGAs to turn on him.
    - jajko 2y ago
      Imagine having fun with animals, men, children, bsdm and so on. That's not even bottom of the pit. I mean he was a good friend with epstein and there are numerous videos of their friendly encounters (so did clinton, gates and so on just to be clear). Go figure. But I think he is just a small insecure emotional boy at the core, and thats enough if you know which buttons in which order to push. ruskies somehow figured that out, it seems israelis too during his first term.
      - csa 2y ago
        > Imagine having fun with animals, men, children, bsdm and so on. That's not even bottom of the pit. Other than children/minors, I don’t think the others are likely. Possible, but not likely. Whatever kompromat they have was almost certainly came during the 2013 miss universe pageant in Russia. It would have been trivially easy to get an old enough-looking minor in the room with him.
    - 2y ago
mandmandam 2y ago
They (the GOP, Democrats, national and intl intelligence agencies) all have blackmail on each other. It hasn't made sense to think about these issues purely on national lines for a long time - try thinking in terms of a large international mafia with various families and factions; held together by unspeakable secrets. Sarah Kendzior and Whitney Webb produce great writing about this, thoroughly sourced. For example, here's a piece from Sarah's latest newsletter Q and A: > What is the hold that Trump has over the Republicans? It has to be more than simply the threat of a primary. Do you think it involves threats of violence? It's a mystery to me what could be so frightening that this large group of people would forsake their country. > SK: Trump has leverage over the GOP due to 1) lifelong connections with organized crime and willingness to deploy violence 2) blackmail obtained long before 2016 via his mentor, mafia lawyer and GOP advisor Roy Cohn, and Cohn’s networks 3) blackmail and state secrets Trump obtained during his first term 4) court packing that creates the potential of legal consequences for anyone who challenges him 5) bribery and/or shared evil goals with the GOP, though for many this incentive fades over time when they realize they will never be more than a disposable hired hand. Many Republicans were lured by corrupt ambition, but they stay due to fear. And lest you think this is a one-sided problem: https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/servants-of-the-mafia-state https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/servants-of-the-mafia-s...
- NeutralCrane 2y ago
  Lmao, this is the dumbest conspiracy theory I’ve read in a while. National politicians are afraid of being murdered by the Mafia on Trump’s orders? Good grief. Even if you put the absurdity of that kind of thing aside, look at the actual facts. Trump burns through advisors and cabinet members on a nearly weekly basis, and many of those have gone on to become scathing critics of his. He has tons of vocal enemies from within the Republican Party, who are quickly sidelined or ousted but never harmed. The reason Republicans have all fallen in line behind Trump is because they ultimately want nothing more than power and wealth. Once it became clear that Trump has tapped into an indestructible movement of American populist stupidity that isn’t going anywhere, anyone who wanted to have a job in Republican politics quickly figured out that there was only one way to do so: join the never ending Trump pep-rally.
nprateem 2y ago
It's the only explanation that makes any sense. But it wouldn't be a financial debt more likely some humiliating kompromat. That's Trump's biggest fear. And Putin probably has plenty from Trump's visits there.
- justin66 2y ago
  I think Trump would happily sell out the United States for a few billion dollars pumped into his memecoin (or whatever).
- bamboozled 2y ago
  What could they have on him that would matter? Honestly? I don't really buy this kompromat argument, even if it was some horrific sex tape it would just be "fake" or "fake news". I think it's likely just the flattery and importance they give him, the strongman image he desires and he likes the way Russia is a dictatorship. I just think he likes their system.

stefantalpalaru 2y ago

[dead]

narrator 2y ago

We allied with Stalin in world war III, now that's evil. Putin will be a good ally against China, who is an actual threat to the United States.

9dev 2y ago
An ally that has broken pretty much any agreement he has ever made, invades neighbouring countries and spins alternative facts around to justify it, suppresses and fights just about any values that the USA used to hold, and played a key role in the KGB, a hostile secret service? An ally that is ever more dependent on China economically? I refuse to believe you can be so dense to actually think that!
- wewxjfq 2y ago
  It's so heavily being pushed on social media right now, I suspect it's coming from the same forces who tried to make people believe that Trump would deliver more weapons to Ukraine and that Trump would be the better option for Palestine.
wewxjfq 2y ago
Let me quote Harry S. Truman: > If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible.
mitthrowaway2 2y ago
Putin ally against China? He's the one who signed a "no limits" friendship deal with Xi Xinping. China and Russia are intimate trading partners and they have shared geopolitical interests. Why would he object if China wants to take over Taiwan or something?
- narrator 2y ago
  Russia and Germany signed the non-aggression pact.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Aeolun 2y ago

If this were the 70s, Trump would have been arrested as a soviet spy...

linotype 2y ago

Europeans have hated Americans for a while. It’s about time we listen to Europeans and stop helping them with defense.

SergeAx 2y ago

> There is only one word for that: evil. There is another: treason.