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I'm amazed at how the other space companies have failed to offer competition to starlink just the same as the auto industry can't seem to compete with tesla and
by throwaway48476 2y ago
I'm amazed at how the other space companies have failed to offer competition to starlink just the same as the auto industry can't seem to compete with tesla and make a good and profitable EV. They've had a decade to figure it out, so where are they?
Everyone has become cynical and no one is willing to invest in the future and build new things.
- i80and 2y agoI drive a VW ID.4. It's profitable for VW (modulo some boondoggles early on in production), and it's the best car I've ever driven, even solid for road trips. If I wanted, I could have gotten a Hyundai or a Chevy equally well. Tesla just isn't the only or even best game in town, and hasn't been for years.
- averageRoyalty 2y ago> If I wanted, I could have gotten a Hyundai or a Chevy equally well. Tesla just isn't the only or even best game in town, and hasn't been for years I'm yet to find an EV with the same range, acceleration and price point as the model 3 LR. Many seem to beat it on two but not three points. The Polstar is close. The ID.4 has less range, double the time 0-100 and (prices not confirmed yet in Australia but) expected to be $10-20k more expensive.
- cmrdporcupine 2y agoYou don't need 0-60 in under 6 seconds. I say this as a driver of a Polestar. It's just silly. In fact it's mostly dangerous. I won't pay for the upgrade to the "performance" package because 4.5 seconds is already crazy enough. Also consider we non-Tesla owners get luxuries like an actual dashboard, turn stalk... and body panels that fit together properly.
- gottorf 2y ago> an actual dashboard My biggest dislike in Teslas. I won't entertain buying one until they decide that an iPad is not in fact an appropriate way to handle user interface in a car...
- TheBozzCL 2y agoTBH, this is something that scares me about Teslas. Most people can’t handle a car that accelerates that fast. Granted, I know they have safety features that prevent you from running over people… but safeguards fail, this is just a game we shouldn’t be playing at all. On the track? Go crazy. Long stretches of road by yourself? It’s your life, just don’t crash and don’t get caught. Around other people, though?
- averageRoyalty 2y ago> Also consider we non-Tesla owners get luxuries like an actual dashboard, turn stalk... and body panels that fit together properly Personally speaking I have an indicator stalk, I like the minimal cockpit and my panels fit fine.
- freejazz 2y agoIn a thread about cynicism, a poster wonders why don't more cars come with dangerous features
- Marsymars 2y agoI'd bet that you could pick three points about any EV where the model 3 LR is only able to beat the alternative on two of the three.
- fred_is_fred 2y agoFor example The ID.4 has body work that lines up and paint that is the same color.
- averageRoyalty 2y agoCompletely agree, but these are the things I'm personally interested in, and we're discussing "best", which is subjective.
- r00fus 2y agoAcceleration? Anything with 6s or faster 0-60 is plenty fast unless you're just measuring dick size. Actual range is matched by Hyundai/Kia EVs, and pricing is quite good as well (especially used). Also these vehicles support V2L, charge faster, and Don't get me wrong - Tesla has some amazing tech, but they blew their lead in the past few years on that useless Cybertruck instead of iterating their most popular models.
- averageRoyalty 2y ago> Acceleration? Anything with 6s or faster 0-60 is plenty fast unless you're just measuring dick size. "Fun", is my reasoning, the same reason (I assume) why most people buy fast cars. > Also these vehicles support V2L, charge faster V2L doesn't interest me. My understanding is in North America charging is an issue, but in Australia mine charges at 250KW. > Don't get me wrong - Tesla has some amazing tech, but they blew their lead in the past few years on that useless Cybertruck instead of iterating their most popular models. Completely agree RE the cybetruvk - a small "model 2" would be a market changer, cybertruck is weird Elon wank. But every other electric I've driven so far I find inferior, I'm not sure they've lost their lead yet.
- r00fus 2y agoFast is a single feature that a car has. The target market that values "very fast" over "fast enough" is much smaller than the opposite.
- tapoxi 2y agoI also own an ID4, I'm actually on my second lease (had a 2021, now a 2024). I originally had some skepticism from friends since I went non-Tesla, but I love the car. I also appreciate that it's not tied to Musk (and has Android Auto).
- throwaway48476 2y agoThe ID4 software is so bad VW is basically buying rivian. I don't factor politics into car purchases, just value for money.
- tapoxi 2y agoI use Android Auto so even if it were bad, I never really use what's natively in the car.
- aianus 2y agoMy friend’s Tesla drives itself with no hands on the steering wheel from door to door. It is a totally different product category than a regular EV from VW, come on.
- oluwie 2y agoTesla itself hasn't figured out how to make a profitable EV
- recursive 2y agoTesla has some of the best (positive) margins in the business. Are you saying they're making profitable EVs accidentally and without figuring it out?
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- booleandilemma 2y agoTwo industries filled with old companies with entrenched management wanting to keep the status quo, not wanting to take risks and innovate.
- Jtsummers 2y agoLaunch support. Starlink launches are effectively subsidized by SpaceX launch missions (private and government, so US taxpayers helped a lot here). To compete and develop a similar LEO network you need to be able to launch a lot of satellites, and if you don't own the launch system and piggyback your satellites on launches supporting other customers it's a major expense.
- Braxton1980 2y agoElon Musk is responsible for making EVs a real alternative with a meaningful market share but if you compromise moral values and ethics each time money, success, or progress comes up you'll create a horrible world
- nitwit005 2y agoTake a look at the sales trends of different brands EVs. Tesla does not look like the long term winner at the moment. I'd give them a ton of credit for their initial success though. Starting a car company is clearly very difficult.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoTesla is doing better than most other brands still. Somehow all the articles claiming Tesla sales falling in Europe is due to politics are missing that the missing sales basically almost fully shifted to Chinese EVs and not other European or American brands. In other words, people are buying the cheapest thing. If the politics mattered they would probably not support Xi.
- nitwit005 2y agoI didn't say anything about politics.
- rsynnott 2y ago> Somehow all the articles claiming Tesla sales falling in Europe is due to politics are missing that the missing sales basically almost fully shifted to Chinese EVs and not other European or American brands. ... Wait, where are you getting that? BYD saw substantial percentage year on year growth for Jan 2025, but from a very low base. Growth seems to largely be accruing to VW AG, BMW, and, oddly, Toyota (for all that reviewers panned the bZ4X, _consumers_ seem to like it).
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoThere are probably better sources that go deeper, but here’s one I just got from a quick search (https://www.npr.org/2025/02/27/nx-s1-5311609/tesla-sales-europe https://www.npr.org/2025/02/27/nx-s1-5311609/tesla-sales-eur...) > In January, according to the ACEA data, Tesla clocked the largest — by far — decrease in sales of any auto manufacturer in Europe. The largest increase, at 36.8%, was for SAIC Motor, a Chinese automaker whose brands include MG. > In January, SAIC Motor sold more than twice as many vehicles in Europe as Tesla did, according to the ACEA data.
- thenthenthen 2y agoChina is https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/12/15/chinas-satellite-megaprojects-are-challenging-elon-musks-starlink.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/12/15/chinas-satellite-megapro...
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoTheir planned satellites still aren’t on par. They have to be twice as high in orbit it because they don’t have the launch tech to hit lower orbits. Bad news for the world though - if they have issues, space debris at that altitude will take hundreds of years to fall back down. Starlink satellites take a max of 5 years to fall back and burn up. China is creating a huge risk of space debris issues.
- rsynnott 2y ago> I'm amazed at how the other space companies have failed to offer competition to starlink Revenue estimated in the 7-8bn range last year. That's pretty tiny for a telecom, especially one with global scope; it's about the size, say, of France's fourth largest telecom. Profitability would be almost impossible to estimate (to what extent should rocket development costs be laid upon it, say?) but realistically you wouldn't expect it to be profitable. Like, it is not necessarily a business you'd want to be in.
- _Tev 2y agoWell SpaceX does not need outside financing anymore, even while continuing to build out Starlink and developing Starship. Seems like a bold claim to say Starlink is not profitable. But it is still not a business you would want to be in, because it is enabled by super cheap rockets, which no one else has.
- Seb-C 2y ago> no one is willing to invest in the future and build new things. The markets have been so warped by the power of existing monopolies that most investors are only interested in trying to find the next golden goose (as we can see in the crypto, AI, metaverse and countless other bubbles).
- r00fus 2y ago> the auto industry can't seem to compete with tesla and make a good and profitable EV. They've had a decade to figure it out, so where are they? This talking point is 5 years old. As of 2022, legacy auto has matched Tesla in enough respects to be worthy competitors. Sure Tesla's electronics are a bit better, but in terms of being a good car, other manufacturers have Tesla beat.