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Trump will kill CHIPS Act by gutting NIST employees
- osnium123 2y agoSo much for TSMC’s Arizona expansion and Intel’s foundry plans.
- giardini 2y agoTSM has found few American workers willing to work as hard as Taiwan's, so likely no great loss for them.
- yieldcrv 2y ago[flagged]
- layer8 2y agoThey do seem to have difficulties related to differences in work culture: https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/tsmc-arizona-struggles-to-overcome-vast-differences-between-taiwanese-and-us-work-culture https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/ts...
- righthand 2y agoTaiwan is not China. It has been colonized by many Asian cultures over the century.
- yieldcrv 2y agothe administration we address is an exiled government, and population, of China and its still in the name. nice try.
- righthand 2y agoThat’s my exact point. The population isn’t all Chinese or considers themselves China. Taipei itself is divided into Japanese, Korean, and Chinese areas all with a distinct culture. There is also an evolving Taiwanese culture. The government is the Republic of China and is a completely different government. It broke away because it does not consider itself China or invest in those values. The island and nation are Taiwan. It is a complex situation for sure, but Taiwan is not China. Once you leave Customs/Immigration at a port you will not see China mentioned anywhere. Bad try.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoWill not be great when China invades Taiwan and global supply of TSMC output evaporates as TSMC destroys the fabs to prevent takeover. > Earlier this year, he said: "Disabling or destroying TSMC is table stakes if China is taking over Taiwan. Would we be so insane as to allow the world's key semiconductor company [to] fall untouched into the hands of an aggressive PRC? Taiwanese should realize that would be the least of their problems." > Earlier this year, the US Secretary of Commerce Gina Raimondo told the House Appropriations Committee that a hypothetical Chinese invasion of Taiwan and seizure of TSMC would be “absolutely devastating” for the United States. > She said that “the United States buys 92 percent of its leading edge chips from TSMC in Taiwan,” meaning any disruption to that supply chain would have a significant impact on the US economy https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/trumps-undersecretary-of-defense-for-policy-repeatedly-said-tsmc-fabs-should-be-destroyed-if-china-invades-taiwan/ https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/trumps-undersecre...
- drivingmenuts 2y agoTrump doesn't give two shits about Taiwan. My guess is he'll break out his great negotiation skills to get China to … agree that Taiwan is part of China and that we should pay them more for chips (except he'll sell it to us as paying less by just flat out lying about it).
- toomuchtodo 2y agoIf that is the case, the timing is strange with the US State Department changing website content indicating otherwise. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyzy300vlzo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyzy300vlzo
- jajko 2y agoAny official US government foreign policy statements and stances became irrelevant in past month. Even russians struggle to change their internal narratives when trump within week switches from 'ukraine caused the war itself' to 'russia caused the war', then back, then to XYZ, and they specifically are very... flexible with official truths. Its really the mood of the given day of one man, known for his wild emotional swings which rule most if not all of his decisions. Everybody understood the game quickly, leading people on all sides are not stupid in these matters. The rest are just official PR statements 'to keep face'.
- currymj 2y agoi often wonder about this. because if you look at Big Law, investment banking, or private equity, there are a lot of highly-educated Americans who are willing to work as hard as anyone on earth. so it's got to be something about TSMC's recruiting pipeline, or perhaps what motivations the Americans who get educated for the skills they need have, rather than specifically American laziness.
- logicchains 2y agoIt's very simple: the pay at TSMC is shit by American tech standards and Americans capable of doing the job generally have much better-paying options. Paying US-competitive salaries would basically double TSMC's labor cost.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoYeah, this is just simple principles: Garbage in, garbage out. If you're only offering little more pay than an entry level fast food worker, your quality and productivity will match that. The real theme of the post-08 crash is "no one wants to pay americans anymore". And it's only been spreading from industry to industry as the billionaires figure out how to cut american labor but benefit from american consumerism.
- robertlagrant 2y agoIt's simpler principles: cost of living is different in different countries, and politicians generally get votes for promising to spend money (raising the cost of living) or doing other COL-raising activities, rather than to save it (thus potentially lowering it). There are no solutions; only trade-offs. And the US, like many first world countries, has picked trade-offs that raise the average COL.
- llamaimperative 2y agoCost of living never goes down if productivity is going up
- johnnyanmac 2y agoTSM has found few American workers willing to work inhumane 9/9/6 hours and still not pay rent. They also cannot threaten the CCP on them. >So likely no great loss for hem. This I agree with. This whole tariff deal was supposed to encourage this exact behavior. Have more foreign companies setup on american soil so they can provide american jobs. So we arguably lose out a lot more on this action.
- jauntywundrkind 2y agoUggh, what sad replies & lack of defense amid the replies for TSMC America! 'Lazy American worker!' yada yada. Arizona fab has had top notch quality, out-pacing Taiwan's yields. https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/tsmc-arizona-fab-delivers-4-percent-more-yield-than-comparable-facilities-in-taiwan https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/ts... They're making 4nm chips too now, doing fine. https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/tsmcs-arizona-fab-21-is-already-making-4nm-chips-yield-and-quality-reportedly-on-par-with-taiwan-fabs https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/ts...
- osnium123 2y agoYes but they only achieved this because they brought in a lot of workers from Taiwan. Half the workers in the factory are brought in from Taiwan. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/29/business/tsmc-phoenix-taiwan.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/29/business/tsmc-phoenix-tai...
- _t9ow 2y ago> Half the workers in the factory are brought in from Taiwan. Thus depriving Taiwan of its much-needed intellectual and human capital to sustain its Silicon Shield defence strategy. I frequently browse social media sites that are popular among the Taiwanese, and my impression is that they are generally unhappy about this state of affairs, seeing it as an act of economic coercion from the US.
- fuckbrownpeople 2y ago[flagged]
- jajko 2y ago> they are generally unhappy about this state of affairs, seeing it as an act of economic coercion from the US Welcome to how rest of the world feels like now
- hindsightbias 2y agoWhy are we subsizing Apple when they have $200B in cash laying around? Repatriate and give them sme tax credit.
- addicted 2y agoWhy would Apple repatriate their cash and pay any taxes? I don’t understand why they would care to move the money out of the countries where they earned that money and are likely to be expanding more than they are in the U.S. anyways.
- jajko 2y agoYou mean Ireland?
- ashoeafoot 2y agoCause the us is no save haven for money and ownership anymore? Look at other autocracies where the dictators give and take the riches ala russia.In a oligarchy with king, you are one bad emperor day at court away from loosing it.
- Clubber 2y agoA lot of subsidization is tax credits.
- TooSmugToFail 2y agoElon is making sure his enterprises have no competition for federal funds.
- scarab92 2y ago[flagged]
- AlecSchueler 2y agoThen why has he accepted so many billions in subsidies?
- Ancalagon 2y agoEven more comically evil. Like just why dude, this doesn’t help anyone except your oligarch buddies.
- ranger_danger 2y agoSounds like you already figured out the why.
- inverted_flag 2y agoI honestly don’t even see how this benefits them.
- duxup 2y agoWe don't really know who has paid their bribes, anyone could have bought trump coin and so on ... doesn't even have to be a local oligarch.
- Bostonian 2y agoIt's not the business of the federal government to encourage or discourage investment in an industry. When it does subsidize investment, it often comes with strings attached that don't help the industry in the long run.
- collingreen 2y agoI think it requires a lot of mental gymnastics to dismiss the semiconductor industry as anything but critical to all modern economies and militaries. I think it takes similar willful blindness to lump "encourage investment" in with "bring on shore in the name of national security" as if they are exactly the same. We do a lot of corrupt/wrong subsidizing in this country but that doesn't mean throw the baby out with the bathwater. If I had a magic wand we'd still have tariffs and subsidize critical infrastructure and expertise - for example I find it very surprising that we don't make sure we always have wartime level of doctors and farmers trained and ready.
- halJordan 2y agoThat has not ever been true in the history of governments. Even when John Smith's version of laissez-faire was at its most influential
- Bostonian 2y agoMany governments do things that are economically inefficient, for example imposing tariffs to protect industries.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoAnd they also - subsidize farmers so consumers have cheaper groceriess - help fund public schools so education is less limited by socioeconomic status - fund science to advance the future - offer tax credits to encourage adopting environentally-friendly technology - apply taxes to disincenivize bad habits (e.g. tobacco) So I'm not sure where you're coming at with this angle. That's government's greatest effect on society. > imposing tariffs to protect industries. Trump is doing it wrong and recklessly, so no disagreement in reality But there are smart tactics for this short term inefficiency that can cause long term competitiveness. You can apply a high tarriff if you trust that domestic competition can catch up in a few years so you don't lose your own market to overseas competition. Long term, encouraging domestic stimulation is much better and more reliable than relying on foreign products for consumption. Especially essentials.
- jmclnx 2y agoFully expected, surprised it took this long. IIRC, the funds went to mostly red states. So MAGA people, happy your guy came through for you again ?
- johnnyanmac 2y agohe did say this day one. And despite feelinig like eternity, we're only entering week 5. This would be considered "fast" by any other administraion. But yes. I remember when Americans used to care about politicians creating American jobs as a populist stance. Those days feel like decades ago now with people celebrating the literal slashing of government jobs (who surprise, is the biggest US employer).
- slowmovintarget 2y agoMost Americans care about creating American jobs in the private sector not about growing the government by creating more government jobs. More Americans are employed by industry and small businesses (as it should be) than by government. Why would you think there needs to be one giant employer instead of a healthy market of many? Stats: The Bureau of Labor and Statistics puts the total number of Americans employed by government (at any level, federal, state, local, or military) at roughly 23 million, as of Feb 2025. At the same time, private businesses employ roughly 132 million Americans, vastly outstripping the employment of the government. This is what you want. More teachers than administrators. More private employment than tax-supported services. We need government. We need good and effective bureaucrats, even. But we should always be cautious about the economic friction that increases in the government sector usually cause.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoSome segment of the population wants more teachers, but is not willing to pay them more to attract them, because taxes would have to increase. Over 1k school districts in the US are on a four day week, as it’s the only way to retain those teachers on the budget they have. Americans want more private employment. Where? If healthcare and construction, where demand is greatest, do they think laid off government workers will retrain? Or retire? The last administration attempted to create well paying, union jobs in clean energy technology manufacturing and this admin is rolling all of that funding back (much to the detriment of red states, to their self inflicted surprise). The economy is at 4% unemployment, and 4M Boomers are retiring per year, ~11,200 per day. If this is an attempt to free up labor for private industry to further diminish worker power and wages, the demographics crunch comes regardless due to the compressing working age population pyramid. The federal government creates jobs for both unprofitable yet necessary work and is an employer of last resort in the ways it offers and structures work available (military spouse flexible work arrangements, locating offices and working spaces for federal work in communities where no other employer will offer jobs, etc). > Most Americans care about creating American jobs in the private sector not about growing the government by creating more government jobs. More Americans are employed by industry and small businesses (as it should be) than by government. The American electorate, broadly speaking, is grossly uneducated and unsophisticated in these matters unfortunately. They don’t even know who pays tariffs, why they’re inflationary, etc. https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/14/politics/the-biggest-predictor-of-how-someone-will-vote/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/14/politics/the-biggest-predicto...
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoA bit earlier including a NIST staffer weighing in: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43106478 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43106478
- scarab92 2y ago[flagged]
- abenga 2y ago> Trump won due to the public backlash from social policies that originated within the humanities departments No, he won because people believed silly lies.
- jajko 2y agoSilly comfortable feel-good lies. I hate the situation just like the next guy, but he is a symptom of larger issues in societies currently, not really restricted to US (look at who keeps winning European elections recently). Addiction to quick dopamine kicks (from social networks aka soul cancer for most, and earlier from reality shows) manifests also like that, people subconsciously seek them and patience and long term focus diminishes. How many people here are properly addicted in same way via ie doom scrolling. US public education still struggles to teach scientific views on world (creationism push in the south), don't expect masses of highly intelligent critically thinking people coming out of them. I personally think also PC, LBGTQ+ topics etc. were pushed too hard too fast for most people's taste, creating quiet but effective resistance and backslash that only manifests anonymously in ie elections. Some of MeToo headliners were female sexual predators themselves, you really can't come up with more effective way how to destroy it quickly for good. Elite is what it is because its comparatively small in numbers. And echo chambers can easily make one feel like whole world is like that. At the end this is democracy too, like it or not.
- pfannkuchen 2y agoDelete subsidy carrot, replace with tariff stick?
- throw0101c 2y ago> Delete subsidy carrot, replace with tariff stick? Tariffs are both subsidies and taxes at the same time; see "Tariffs Give U.S. Steelmakers a Green Light to Lift Prices": > Executives from U.S. steel companies were enthusiastic backers of the 2018 tariffs and have urged Trump to deploy them again in his second term. They have called for the elimination of tariff exemptions and duty-free import quotas, saying those carve-outs allow unfairly low-price steel to enter the U.S. and undermine the steel market. […] > Higher prices for imported steel are often followed by domestic suppliers raising their own prices, which then get passed through supply chains, manufacturing executives said. For consumers already reeling from rising retail prices and inflation, pricier steel and aluminum could further lift costs for durable goods like appliances and automobiles, as well as consumer products with aluminum packaging, such as canned beverages. > “The issue with tariffs is everybody raises their prices, even the domestics,” said Ralph Hardt, owner of Belleville International, a Pennsylvania-based manufacturer of valves and components used in the energy and defense industries. Steel and aluminum are Belleville’s largest expenses. * http://archive.is/https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/trump-tariffs-mexico-canada-us-steel-market-a36c3b99 http://archive.is/https://www.wsj.com/economy/trade/trump-ta... So tariffs are taxes in the sense that consumers are paying higher prices. But they are subsidies in that domestic companies don't have as much pressure on prices and can get more money. So if you want to help a particular industry might as well just go with subsidies directly instead of the taxation add-on as well.
- pfannkuchen 2y agoTariffs are massively simpler though and less prone to corruption. The latter is I think the reason we hear so much screeching about them. Right now our industries are competing with slave labor and lax environmental controls. If we don’t want either of those things here, we can’t allow groups who do those things to sell into our market freely. The idea that we tax our people and hand the money to our companies so they can compete with polluting slave labor is incredibly more complicated than just putting up barriers to entering our market. Not to mention the fact that the pollution in China et al affects us here also. In my opinion we should just not trade with countries who don’t have labor and environmental standards at parity with ours. Tariffs are the next best thing.
- duxup 2y agoTrump is China and Russia's best asset.
- DougN7 2y agoHe’s being played like a fiddle.
- deadbabe 2y agoI don’t get the doom and gloom, isn’t this just taking us back to before the CHIPS act, 2022? Weren’t we fine then?
- inverted_flag 2y agoWe’re fine until China invades Taiwan and the tech companies that prop up our economy can’t buy high-end chips anymore.
- moshun 2y agoAgreed. This is nothing to worry about unless you have the ability to predict probable future events.
- inverted_flag 2y ago[flagged]
- deadbabe 2y agoWhat if we simply do not let China invade Taiwan?
- inverted_flag 2y agoThat’s probably not possible anymore given China’s increasingly large and advanced military.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoSo instead of spending _billions_ to support a domestic advanced chip design and production, we spend _trillions_ on a war with China?
- DrillShopper 2y agoBut think of the profits of the defense contractors!/s
- insane_dreamer 2y agoThis one really doesn't make sense if you actually want to MAGA, since advanced chips is a critical area for the US to maintain leadership. China is meanwhile pouring many $billions into catching up. The Chinese can't believe their good luck. No need for them to do anything -- just let the US self-destruct.
- nativeit 2y agoAlso worth noting the 50% tariff on Chinese semiconductors (and other tech components). So US companies can’t even get low-priced imports to make their products competitive. We’re stuck with high-priced domestic labor, who are not sufficiently skilled for the work, whose companies can’t fund or complete the work, and aren’t allowed to hire and/or buy foreign. Some American dynamism…
- kccoder 2y ago> This one really doesn't make sense if you actually want to MAGA They don't. It was always a lie. The want to make their own lives great(er) at the expense of the rest of the human species. Way too many people were somehow conned by an expert conman who had previously conned them. Short memories and wishful thinking is a dangerous combo.
- marcusverus 2y agoThis mindset is the ultimate goal of all propagandists--complete and total ideological capture. Once the propagandist has convinced their target of the other's inherent malevolence, the target will no longer seek to understand the perspective of the dreaded other. Their every statement will be viewed with suspicion. They only say they want to make their country great, the tricky devils!
- techorange 2y agoSo this is true, and if I piece apart what you’re saying, it’s that you think that liberal propaganda has turned people away from MAGA, convincing liberals of Trump’s inherent malevolence. But I have a different theory. I think that in this case, the propagandists are trying to convince the other of their own inherent malevolence. Not to say liberal media doesn’t try to do this, but let’s be honest? Trump is a world’s better marketer than the folks at MSNBC. And I think he thinks it is useful to be so extreme that it also creates that divisiveness. Like as objectively as I try to look at Trump, I think he intentionally obfuscates his intentions to increase divisiveness.
- daft_pink 2y agoProbably an unpopular opinion, but defending Taiwan was always a bluff. Americans aren’t going to die en masse over some random island in the pacific. We will heavily sanction China and use economic tools, but we aren’t going to start World War 3 over some small island in the pacific.
- palmotea 2y ago> We will heavily sanction China and use economic tools Which will be pointless and fail, especially against a country like China.
- disqard 2y agoYou might be right now in your judgement of what Americans are willing to die for. However, I'm old enough to recall when America was convinced by Rumsfeld et. al. to send US soldiers in harms way -- over 4000 of them died in Iraq -- for some obscenely lucrative oil contracts. That qualifies as "die en masse", and it was over some really flimsy pretext, which was later proved to be completely false.
- voidfunc 2y agoYou don't understand, those people were brown and the wrong religion and were easily associated with the other brown guys that killed a couple thousand people in 2001. Also 4K is a drop in the bucket compared to what it would take to defend Taiwan.
- cantrecallmypwd 2y agoChina is currently building some serious coastal barrier-breaching landing craft for very heavy, large vehicles like tanks. These wouldn't be built unless China intends to: a) Invade Taiwan in the next 1-2 years b) Extort by threat of invasion https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/01/china-suddenly-building-fleet-of-special-barges-suitable-for-taiwan-landings/ https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2025/01/china-suddenly-... https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/built-extremely-quickly-new-china-pics-making-experts-sweat/news-story/0e475ce00ac3d3f74c3da89e791dc0e4 https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/military/built...