5 ms·

Oh, I haven't heard about these in Brazilian news. That's a nice find. Some interesting points: * This was the last Brazilian ship sunk during WWII * Brazil

Oh, I haven't heard about these in Brazilian news. That's a nice find. Some interesting points: * This was the last Brazilian ship sunk during WWII * Brazil was an US ally, providing raw materials, but mainly rubber after Asia trade routes were suspended by the Japanese * If Brazil didn't become an US ally, there was a plan to invade the rubber producing area - known as Plan Rubber [1] - it was not necessary since Brazil joined the allies * To warm up Brazilians public reception to a US partnership even Disney got involved (and Carmen Miranda!) creating the character Zé Carioca [2] * Brazil sent 25k+ troops to the Italy front -- [1] Plan Rubber - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Rubber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Rubber [2] Zé Carioca - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Carioca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Carioca

pfdietz 2y ago
> * Brazil sent 25k+ troops to the Italy front The Smoking Snakes! As part of that they had pilots flying P-47s. I understand the rationing of gasoline in the US during the war was intended to conserve rubber, not (just) gasoline. Eventually synthetic rubber became available but this took a while and was a huge effort. http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/R/u/Rubber.htm http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/R/u/Rubber.htm
- klaussilveira 2y ago
  Sabaton wrote an amazing song about the Smoking Snakes: https://sabaton.fandom.com/wiki/Smoking_Snakes https://sabaton.fandom.com/wiki/Smoking_Snakes
marcosdumay 2y ago
> Brazil was an US ally The Brazilian government was a dictatorship closely aligned with Italy. The Brazilian society was closely aligned with the US. At the moment that ship sank, you could replace US with Italy and that phrase would be about as true. That ship was basically the last drop that made Brazil push the government into breaking ties with Italy. And yeah, shortly after that Brazil participated on the taking of Italy.
- DanielHB 2y ago
  Brazil was playing both sides, much like Sweden. Profiting from the war while staying out of it. Brazil only joined the war because the US gave big loans to Brazil to fund the creation of steelworks factories to kickstart the steel production in the country. The sinking of the ships was just the official excuse to declare war, but Brazil was aligned with the US a few years before that. From: https://guides.loc.gov/brazil-us-relations/brazil-world-war-ii https://guides.loc.gov/brazil-us-relations/brazil-world-war-... > Foreign Minister Oswaldo Aranha's five-week visit to the United States earlier in the year secured Brazil substantial lines of credit, loans, and technical assistance for the development of Brazilian rubber and mining industries. On September 26, 1940 the United States and Brazil signed agreement for the financing and construction of the Volta Redonda steel mill. By the end of 1940, Brazil had privately resolved to throw its lot in with the Allies. I recommend reading the whole article, very interesting. I remember my history teacher in high school actually teaching this (he mentioned only steel, not rubber), I am very surprised this fact is downplayed and a lot of Brazilians don't know about it. I remember my teacher also mentioning that Brazil tried to secure similar deals with Germany but with no luck, but I can't find any sources for that.
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    Brazil wasn't profiting from the war. Unless you count selling food and raw material as war profiteering. It did require a largish monetary loan as condition of entering the war. And yes, it did invest the loan on a some industries. Also, all of this is extensively covered by Brazilian schools. I have no idea what accusation you have of downplaying stuff.
    - DanielHB 2y ago
      > Brazil wasn't profiting from the war. Unless you count selling food and raw material as war profiteering. Yes I do, Brazil was selling food and raw materials to both sides while staying out of the war just like Sweden. The main difference is that Brazil moved out of its neutral position several years before the end of the war, but that only happened because of US direct support. Sweden probably got similar deals from the US but didn't want to risk getting invaded like Norway was. > Also, all of this is extensively covered by Brazilian schools. I have no idea what accusation you have of downplaying stuff. Like I mentioned, I was taught this in high school, but a lot of Brazilian people I mention this fact to doesn't seem to know about it. This is anecdotal though.

pfdietz 2y ago

> * Brazil sent 25k+ troops to the Italy front The Smoking Snakes! As part of that they had pilots flying P-47s. I understand the rationing of gasoline in the US during the war was intended to conserve rubber, not (just) gasoline. Eventually synthetic rubber became available but this took a while and was a huge effort. http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/R/u/Rubber.htm http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/R/u/Rubber.htm

klaussilveira 2y ago
Sabaton wrote an amazing song about the Smoking Snakes: https://sabaton.fandom.com/wiki/Smoking_Snakes https://sabaton.fandom.com/wiki/Smoking_Snakes

marcosdumay 2y ago

> Brazil was an US ally The Brazilian government was a dictatorship closely aligned with Italy. The Brazilian society was closely aligned with the US. At the moment that ship sank, you could replace US with Italy and that phrase would be about as true. That ship was basically the last drop that made Brazil push the government into breaking ties with Italy. And yeah, shortly after that Brazil participated on the taking of Italy.

DanielHB 2y ago
Brazil was playing both sides, much like Sweden. Profiting from the war while staying out of it. Brazil only joined the war because the US gave big loans to Brazil to fund the creation of steelworks factories to kickstart the steel production in the country. The sinking of the ships was just the official excuse to declare war, but Brazil was aligned with the US a few years before that. From: https://guides.loc.gov/brazil-us-relations/brazil-world-war-ii https://guides.loc.gov/brazil-us-relations/brazil-world-war-... > Foreign Minister Oswaldo Aranha's five-week visit to the United States earlier in the year secured Brazil substantial lines of credit, loans, and technical assistance for the development of Brazilian rubber and mining industries. On September 26, 1940 the United States and Brazil signed agreement for the financing and construction of the Volta Redonda steel mill. By the end of 1940, Brazil had privately resolved to throw its lot in with the Allies. I recommend reading the whole article, very interesting. I remember my history teacher in high school actually teaching this (he mentioned only steel, not rubber), I am very surprised this fact is downplayed and a lot of Brazilians don't know about it. I remember my teacher also mentioning that Brazil tried to secure similar deals with Germany but with no luck, but I can't find any sources for that.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  Brazil wasn't profiting from the war. Unless you count selling food and raw material as war profiteering. It did require a largish monetary loan as condition of entering the war. And yes, it did invest the loan on a some industries. Also, all of this is extensively covered by Brazilian schools. I have no idea what accusation you have of downplaying stuff.
  - DanielHB 2y ago
    > Brazil wasn't profiting from the war. Unless you count selling food and raw material as war profiteering. Yes I do, Brazil was selling food and raw materials to both sides while staying out of the war just like Sweden. The main difference is that Brazil moved out of its neutral position several years before the end of the war, but that only happened because of US direct support. Sweden probably got similar deals from the US but didn't want to risk getting invaded like Norway was. > Also, all of this is extensively covered by Brazilian schools. I have no idea what accusation you have of downplaying stuff. Like I mentioned, I was taught this in high school, but a lot of Brazilian people I mention this fact to doesn't seem to know about it. This is anecdotal though.