4 ms·

Brazilian ship sunk by WWII U-Boat located

89 points by isaacfrond 2y ago

dxdm 2y ago
[flagged]
- metalman 2y ago
  There has been a trend of "finding" things that nobody was looking for, now that there is an excess capacity to scan and then automaticaly analyise the data, people will be looking for ways to monitise that, even if it's just sending clicks to there advertainment platform, of course they are realy hopeing for a Spanish galleon, but are quite unlikely to publish that.... though the push will be on, as things like having side scan sonar attached to any old random ship is becoming a trivial expense, and routing ships traffic, in ever so slightly offset tracks, would also be trivial, the common occurance of ships having to wait off shore, in a holding patterns, provides another oportunity to gather data, for use in refining algorithms on known wrecks , fish, whales and whatever else is going on ,over 70% of the planet.....so, ya
  - pfdietz 2y ago
    Also, some of the wrecks can be salvaged for low-background steel, which has had some extra value (not sure if that's still the case.) This is often not legal -- the wrecks are war graves -- but it has happened nonetheless. There have also been advances in algorithms for estimating where ships have gone down, so-called "renavigation". This has enabled search areas to be reduced in size. This was used to locate some of the carriers sunk at Midway.
jeanlucas 2y ago
Oh, I haven't heard about these in Brazilian news. That's a nice find. Some interesting points: * This was the last Brazilian ship sunk during WWII * Brazil was an US ally, providing raw materials, but mainly rubber after Asia trade routes were suspended by the Japanese * If Brazil didn't become an US ally, there was a plan to invade the rubber producing area - known as Plan Rubber [1] - it was not necessary since Brazil joined the allies * To warm up Brazilians public reception to a US partnership even Disney got involved (and Carmen Miranda!) creating the character Zé Carioca [2] * Brazil sent 25k+ troops to the Italy front -- [1] Plan Rubber - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Rubber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Rubber [2] Zé Carioca - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Carioca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Carioca
- pfdietz 2y ago
  > * Brazil sent 25k+ troops to the Italy front The Smoking Snakes! As part of that they had pilots flying P-47s. I understand the rationing of gasoline in the US during the war was intended to conserve rubber, not (just) gasoline. Eventually synthetic rubber became available but this took a while and was a huge effort. http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/R/u/Rubber.htm http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/R/u/Rubber.htm
  - klaussilveira 2y ago
    Sabaton wrote an amazing song about the Smoking Snakes: https://sabaton.fandom.com/wiki/Smoking_Snakes https://sabaton.fandom.com/wiki/Smoking_Snakes
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  > Brazil was an US ally The Brazilian government was a dictatorship closely aligned with Italy. The Brazilian society was closely aligned with the US. At the moment that ship sank, you could replace US with Italy and that phrase would be about as true. That ship was basically the last drop that made Brazil push the government into breaking ties with Italy. And yeah, shortly after that Brazil participated on the taking of Italy.
  - DanielHB 2y ago
    Brazil was playing both sides, much like Sweden. Profiting from the war while staying out of it. Brazil only joined the war because the US gave big loans to Brazil to fund the creation of steelworks factories to kickstart the steel production in the country. The sinking of the ships was just the official excuse to declare war, but Brazil was aligned with the US a few years before that. From: https://guides.loc.gov/brazil-us-relations/brazil-world-war-ii https://guides.loc.gov/brazil-us-relations/brazil-world-war-... > Foreign Minister Oswaldo Aranha's five-week visit to the United States earlier in the year secured Brazil substantial lines of credit, loans, and technical assistance for the development of Brazilian rubber and mining industries. On September 26, 1940 the United States and Brazil signed agreement for the financing and construction of the Volta Redonda steel mill. By the end of 1940, Brazil had privately resolved to throw its lot in with the Allies. I recommend reading the whole article, very interesting. I remember my history teacher in high school actually teaching this (he mentioned only steel, not rubber), I am very surprised this fact is downplayed and a lot of Brazilians don't know about it. I remember my teacher also mentioning that Brazil tried to secure similar deals with Germany but with no luck, but I can't find any sources for that.
kaivi 2y ago
It seems to lie on the continental shelf, at a depth of abount 40 meters. Surprised it took so long to locate.
- jeanlucas 2y ago
  I think it is mostly because it wasn't being looked for. WWII is not as present in Brazilian mainstream culture as it is in the US, for example.
- mmooss 2y ago
  How big is the continental shelf on the Brazilian coast, in square miles? Has more than a fraction of it been explored?
James_K 2y ago
WII U boat? I didn't really Nintendo had a navy.
- RandomBacon 2y ago
  You're missing a "W" but in case you didn't know, Pepsi once had a navy: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pepsi+navy https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pepsi+navy
7373737373 2y ago
Since so many ships were sunk during WW2, is there a list of what they transported at the time? Have their countries ever made an attempt to recover them?

89 points by isaacfrond 2y ago

dxdm 2y ago

[flagged]

metalman 2y ago
There has been a trend of "finding" things that nobody was looking for, now that there is an excess capacity to scan and then automaticaly analyise the data, people will be looking for ways to monitise that, even if it's just sending clicks to there advertainment platform, of course they are realy hopeing for a Spanish galleon, but are quite unlikely to publish that.... though the push will be on, as things like having side scan sonar attached to any old random ship is becoming a trivial expense, and routing ships traffic, in ever so slightly offset tracks, would also be trivial, the common occurance of ships having to wait off shore, in a holding patterns, provides another oportunity to gather data, for use in refining algorithms on known wrecks , fish, whales and whatever else is going on ,over 70% of the planet.....so, ya
- pfdietz 2y ago
  Also, some of the wrecks can be salvaged for low-background steel, which has had some extra value (not sure if that's still the case.) This is often not legal -- the wrecks are war graves -- but it has happened nonetheless. There have also been advances in algorithms for estimating where ships have gone down, so-called "renavigation". This has enabled search areas to be reduced in size. This was used to locate some of the carriers sunk at Midway.

jeanlucas 2y ago

Oh, I haven't heard about these in Brazilian news. That's a nice find. Some interesting points: * This was the last Brazilian ship sunk during WWII * Brazil was an US ally, providing raw materials, but mainly rubber after Asia trade routes were suspended by the Japanese * If Brazil didn't become an US ally, there was a plan to invade the rubber producing area - known as Plan Rubber [1] - it was not necessary since Brazil joined the allies * To warm up Brazilians public reception to a US partnership even Disney got involved (and Carmen Miranda!) creating the character Zé Carioca [2] * Brazil sent 25k+ troops to the Italy front -- [1] Plan Rubber - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Rubber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Rubber [2] Zé Carioca - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Carioca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Carioca

pfdietz 2y ago
> * Brazil sent 25k+ troops to the Italy front The Smoking Snakes! As part of that they had pilots flying P-47s. I understand the rationing of gasoline in the US during the war was intended to conserve rubber, not (just) gasoline. Eventually synthetic rubber became available but this took a while and was a huge effort. http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/R/u/Rubber.htm http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/R/u/Rubber.htm
- klaussilveira 2y ago
  Sabaton wrote an amazing song about the Smoking Snakes: https://sabaton.fandom.com/wiki/Smoking_Snakes https://sabaton.fandom.com/wiki/Smoking_Snakes
marcosdumay 2y ago
> Brazil was an US ally The Brazilian government was a dictatorship closely aligned with Italy. The Brazilian society was closely aligned with the US. At the moment that ship sank, you could replace US with Italy and that phrase would be about as true. That ship was basically the last drop that made Brazil push the government into breaking ties with Italy. And yeah, shortly after that Brazil participated on the taking of Italy.
- DanielHB 2y ago
  Brazil was playing both sides, much like Sweden. Profiting from the war while staying out of it. Brazil only joined the war because the US gave big loans to Brazil to fund the creation of steelworks factories to kickstart the steel production in the country. The sinking of the ships was just the official excuse to declare war, but Brazil was aligned with the US a few years before that. From: https://guides.loc.gov/brazil-us-relations/brazil-world-war-ii https://guides.loc.gov/brazil-us-relations/brazil-world-war-... > Foreign Minister Oswaldo Aranha's five-week visit to the United States earlier in the year secured Brazil substantial lines of credit, loans, and technical assistance for the development of Brazilian rubber and mining industries. On September 26, 1940 the United States and Brazil signed agreement for the financing and construction of the Volta Redonda steel mill. By the end of 1940, Brazil had privately resolved to throw its lot in with the Allies. I recommend reading the whole article, very interesting. I remember my history teacher in high school actually teaching this (he mentioned only steel, not rubber), I am very surprised this fact is downplayed and a lot of Brazilians don't know about it. I remember my teacher also mentioning that Brazil tried to secure similar deals with Germany but with no luck, but I can't find any sources for that.

kaivi 2y ago

It seems to lie on the continental shelf, at a depth of abount 40 meters. Surprised it took so long to locate.

jeanlucas 2y ago
I think it is mostly because it wasn't being looked for. WWII is not as present in Brazilian mainstream culture as it is in the US, for example.
mmooss 2y ago
How big is the continental shelf on the Brazilian coast, in square miles? Has more than a fraction of it been explored?

James_K 2y ago

WII U boat? I didn't really Nintendo had a navy.

RandomBacon 2y ago
You're missing a "W" but in case you didn't know, Pepsi once had a navy: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pepsi+navy https://duckduckgo.com/?q=pepsi+navy

7373737373 2y ago

Since so many ships were sunk during WW2, is there a list of what they transported at the time? Have their countries ever made an attempt to recover them?