13 ms·

Protoclone: Bipedal, musculoskeletal Android

33 points by RamiroP 2y ago

0_____0 2y ago
Hm. I don't think this is an actual thing but perhaps an art project? Would be interested to be proven wrong. Edit: I think they made a hand like thing and are very very deeply stretching to generate interest and investment in the idea they're showcasing here
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  I also thought it was an art project, but they've previously put out footage of a torso with a mostly empty abdomen which looked about as real. That is, it might of course be CG but if so they're making it look less good over time, which seems unlikely. (They put footage on X periodically but it all looks janky). I've been interested in artificial muscles for a long time and thought it was a more feasible path to go down than the 'industrial/mechanical' style, so this project looks quite interesting. But of course there's no way to tell if it's any way functional or just animatronics.
ge96 2y ago
Got me actin sus, a thicc robot finally the time has come This is so random too 279? What why So easy to making a landing page and some graphics nowadays There's a funny little startup thing guy sticks a glowing tab thing on his temple and it appears like it's mind control or something but it's just a mic/cam data remote processor like Humane
viraptor 2y ago
It looks fun, but I'm still amazed by companies trying to create humanoid robots. I mean, any automation, factory improvement, transportation, etc. will be achieved with fewer issues and easier maintenance by purpose built robots. Alternatively by something simple but adaptable (like mounted or mobile arms with different attachments). Unless they're building a sexbot or art... who exactly is the target here? (I get that there's a potential military use, but getting to that stage will likely take over a decade and you could build a thousand different things that can be sold/used today instead)
- loanedempathy 2y ago
  Using humanoid robots means you get to reuse human tools and workflows, and use teleoperation (and training) until your AI catches up.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    Why would you want to use human tools? Human tools exist because of how we work. If you're building a robot, it's extremely easier to give it a functionally equivalent attachment instead. (rather than a functionality equivalent arm with enough fine-grained pressure feedback to be able to reliably grab things) Teleoperation works great on purpose built robots too - for example https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20140516-i-operate-on-people-400km-away https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20140516-i-operate-on-peo... Or phrased a different way, what environment are you thinking of where a fully generalised highly advanced humanoid robot and its maintenance is more cost effective than diying or airshipping a specialised handle?
    - thomasfedb 2y ago
      Probably because we have quite a lot of human tools already.
    - ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
      Assuming the cost of the droid is low enough, I think the use-case is to have it do ad-hoc tasks using the tools you have at hand right now, without the need to invest in an expensive specialized tool which only the robot can use. The idea is not efficiency but versatility.
      - conductr 2y ago
        Yeah I think of it this way. I have an expensive vacuum and an expensive lawnmower. I paid a lot because they have a pretty dumb level of auto (eg roomba). If I could have bought a commodity push vac and push mower this humanoid could operate it. But they could also serve dozens of other valuable services with cheap existing tools for which no roomba equivalent even exists. At some point being surrounded by purpose built robots is not the best strategy even though when you are only focusing on a single purpose a specialized robot seems best. Someone made a comment about energy efficiency and Bitcoin and AI should tell you everything about how much “we” actually care about energy efficiency, if this robot had infinite learning potential and the physical ability of a human it’s totally going to win out in the race to mechanize the world.
quanto 2y ago
Their video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7dhwFcuUn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7dhwFcuUn0 Taken at face value, it is a very cool project. With pneumatic muscles, the biggest challenge is actually not strength but control. Fine strength/distance control is difficult. Pneumatic muscles are more for bang-bang control (on/off). The company seems to address this issue by having many "myofibers" and recruiting the fibers one by one. However, in the video, the movement is still very jerky. My limbic robots were very jerky too. Nevertheless, very cool. The claimed 500w pump, if really done, is quite a feat. Assuming 80% efficiency, 400w output for muscles would put the robot on par with a competitive cyclist activating quadriceps, the largest muscles in the body.
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  Indeed, the valve/line/pump mass will greatly dominate design cost. The reason no one uses pneumatic actuators for repeatable positioning systems is gas is compressible, adiabatic thermal problems, and dangers when something fails. Never saw automatons as particularly practical either, as the motion control planner balloons in complexity. Makes creepy looking sculptures though... =3
  - Xmd5a 2y ago
    >repeatable positioning systems Typical in CNC, but is it really useful in closed-loop systems that use computer vision to adjust to an uncontrolled environment ? I've been wondering if I could reproduce something like mobile aloha but with sg90 servos instead of expansive dynamixel servos (in this case, I'm not looking at applications that require torque obviously).
    - quanto 2y ago
      Your intuition is quite correct that closed-loop means open-loop repeatability is not critical, but controlability (non-stickness, smallest possible controlled movement) still matters. Motors are well behaved and continuous, so even with some backlashes, you will be fine. There are also ways to compensate for backlashes from software (e.g. same approach angle for end effector). Aloha is a fascinating project and would love to hear more about what you are thinking. Dynamixel indeed is too expensive
rck 2y ago
They're claiming some revolutionary "synthetic muscle," but is there video of one of these things walking? If it's just pneumatics then this is a repeat of the early androids out of Japan, which looked cool but never got up and moved - they were basically just impressive animatronic dolls. My guess is that this ends up being something similar.
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  Check the arm/hand videos; it shows what they are testing ; unless they completely changed everything since that video, it's just a bucketload of rubber (pneumatic) tubes.
ninetyninenine 2y ago
Looks like bullshit. This is a prank.
rbanffy 2y ago
"Straight out of science fiction" Looks a lot like Westworld, and the series doesn't end well for humans.
- codr7 2y ago
  Yeah, NEVER allow it to sleep/dream.
- bigbones 2y ago
  More like straight out of a 1992 era build of POV-Ray 3D
- ilaksh 2y ago
  The company actually copied their logo from WestWorld.
- h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 2y ago
  It's like they watched Westworld and didn't get the message. Like, at all.
  - torlok 2y ago
    https://x.com/AlexBlechman/status/1457842724128833538 https://x.com/AlexBlechman/status/1457842724128833538
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  > and the series doesn't end well for humans. If this Protoclone is the thing to go by, we have nothing to fear for a long time.
- jaybrendansmith 2y ago
  That video is nightmare fuel.
oxqbldpxo 2y ago
Amazing!!! This one... I would buy one. Can't find any specs on battery life.
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  If it even has a battery, it will be horrendous. The most expensive purpose built robots with large battery cases have horrible battery life; this has far less space, so it will be measured in minutes. Battery life is why we won't have nice robots any time remotely soon unless there is an actual (not the yearly bla is coming and then it isn't) revolutionary step in battery tech. And there is just no sign of that.

33 points by RamiroP 2y ago

Hm. I don't think this is an actual thing but perhaps an art project? Would be interested to be proven wrong. Edit: I think they made a hand like thing and are very very deeply stretching to generate interest and investment in the idea they're showcasing here

anigbrowl 2y ago
I also thought it was an art project, but they've previously put out footage of a torso with a mostly empty abdomen which looked about as real. That is, it might of course be CG but if so they're making it look less good over time, which seems unlikely. (They put footage on X periodically but it all looks janky). I've been interested in artificial muscles for a long time and thought it was a more feasible path to go down than the 'industrial/mechanical' style, so this project looks quite interesting. But of course there's no way to tell if it's any way functional or just animatronics.

ge96 2y ago

Got me actin sus, a thicc robot finally the time has come This is so random too 279? What why So easy to making a landing page and some graphics nowadays There's a funny little startup thing guy sticks a glowing tab thing on his temple and it appears like it's mind control or something but it's just a mic/cam data remote processor like Humane

viraptor 2y ago

It looks fun, but I'm still amazed by companies trying to create humanoid robots. I mean, any automation, factory improvement, transportation, etc. will be achieved with fewer issues and easier maintenance by purpose built robots. Alternatively by something simple but adaptable (like mounted or mobile arms with different attachments). Unless they're building a sexbot or art... who exactly is the target here? (I get that there's a potential military use, but getting to that stage will likely take over a decade and you could build a thousand different things that can be sold/used today instead)

loanedempathy 2y ago
Using humanoid robots means you get to reuse human tools and workflows, and use teleoperation (and training) until your AI catches up.
- viraptor 2y ago
  Why would you want to use human tools? Human tools exist because of how we work. If you're building a robot, it's extremely easier to give it a functionally equivalent attachment instead. (rather than a functionality equivalent arm with enough fine-grained pressure feedback to be able to reliably grab things) Teleoperation works great on purpose built robots too - for example https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20140516-i-operate-on-people-400km-away https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20140516-i-operate-on-peo... Or phrased a different way, what environment are you thinking of where a fully generalised highly advanced humanoid robot and its maintenance is more cost effective than diying or airshipping a specialised handle?
  - thomasfedb 2y ago
    Probably because we have quite a lot of human tools already.
  - ulrikrasmussen 2y ago
    Assuming the cost of the droid is low enough, I think the use-case is to have it do ad-hoc tasks using the tools you have at hand right now, without the need to invest in an expensive specialized tool which only the robot can use. The idea is not efficiency but versatility.
    - conductr 2y ago
      Yeah I think of it this way. I have an expensive vacuum and an expensive lawnmower. I paid a lot because they have a pretty dumb level of auto (eg roomba). If I could have bought a commodity push vac and push mower this humanoid could operate it. But they could also serve dozens of other valuable services with cheap existing tools for which no roomba equivalent even exists. At some point being surrounded by purpose built robots is not the best strategy even though when you are only focusing on a single purpose a specialized robot seems best. Someone made a comment about energy efficiency and Bitcoin and AI should tell you everything about how much “we” actually care about energy efficiency, if this robot had infinite learning potential and the physical ability of a human it’s totally going to win out in the race to mechanize the world.

quanto 2y ago

Their video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7dhwFcuUn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7dhwFcuUn0 Taken at face value, it is a very cool project. With pneumatic muscles, the biggest challenge is actually not strength but control. Fine strength/distance control is difficult. Pneumatic muscles are more for bang-bang control (on/off). The company seems to address this issue by having many "myofibers" and recruiting the fibers one by one. However, in the video, the movement is still very jerky. My limbic robots were very jerky too. Nevertheless, very cool. The claimed 500w pump, if really done, is quite a feat. Assuming 80% efficiency, 400w output for muscles would put the robot on par with a competitive cyclist activating quadriceps, the largest muscles in the body.

Joel_Mckay 2y ago
Indeed, the valve/line/pump mass will greatly dominate design cost. The reason no one uses pneumatic actuators for repeatable positioning systems is gas is compressible, adiabatic thermal problems, and dangers when something fails. Never saw automatons as particularly practical either, as the motion control planner balloons in complexity. Makes creepy looking sculptures though... =3
- Xmd5a 2y ago
  >repeatable positioning systems Typical in CNC, but is it really useful in closed-loop systems that use computer vision to adjust to an uncontrolled environment ? I've been wondering if I could reproduce something like mobile aloha but with sg90 servos instead of expansive dynamixel servos (in this case, I'm not looking at applications that require torque obviously).
  - quanto 2y ago
    Your intuition is quite correct that closed-loop means open-loop repeatability is not critical, but controlability (non-stickness, smallest possible controlled movement) still matters. Motors are well behaved and continuous, so even with some backlashes, you will be fine. There are also ways to compensate for backlashes from software (e.g. same approach angle for end effector). Aloha is a fascinating project and would love to hear more about what you are thinking. Dynamixel indeed is too expensive

rck 2y ago

They're claiming some revolutionary "synthetic muscle," but is there video of one of these things walking? If it's just pneumatics then this is a repeat of the early androids out of Japan, which looked cool but never got up and moved - they were basically just impressive animatronic dolls. My guess is that this ends up being something similar.

anonzzzies 2y ago
Check the arm/hand videos; it shows what they are testing ; unless they completely changed everything since that video, it's just a bucketload of rubber (pneumatic) tubes.

ninetyninenine 2y ago

Looks like bullshit. This is a prank.

rbanffy 2y ago

"Straight out of science fiction" Looks a lot like Westworld, and the series doesn't end well for humans.

codr7 2y ago
Yeah, NEVER allow it to sleep/dream.
bigbones 2y ago
More like straight out of a 1992 era build of POV-Ray 3D
ilaksh 2y ago
The company actually copied their logo from WestWorld.
h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 2y ago
It's like they watched Westworld and didn't get the message. Like, at all.
- torlok 2y ago
  https://x.com/AlexBlechman/status/1457842724128833538 https://x.com/AlexBlechman/status/1457842724128833538
anonzzzies 2y ago
> and the series doesn't end well for humans. If this Protoclone is the thing to go by, we have nothing to fear for a long time.
jaybrendansmith 2y ago
That video is nightmare fuel.

oxqbldpxo 2y ago

Amazing!!! This one... I would buy one. Can't find any specs on battery life.

anonzzzies 2y ago
If it even has a battery, it will be horrendous. The most expensive purpose built robots with large battery cases have horrible battery life; this has far less space, so it will be measured in minutes. Battery life is why we won't have nice robots any time remotely soon unless there is an actual (not the yearly bla is coming and then it isn't) revolutionary step in battery tech. And there is just no sign of that.