13 ms·

Alice Hamilton waged a one-woman campaign to get the lead out of everything

420 points by Hooke 2y ago

djmips 2y ago
I still wonder about all the hobbiests, including occasionally myself who might not be treating leaded solder with the caution it deserves. I use unleaded solder but I also fix older gear.
- rasz 2y ago
  Solder is not the problem, soldering fumes do not contain vaporized lead as that would require >400C. They might and often do contain vaporized flux/colophony/resin. You reaaaaaaallllyyyy dont want to breath that thus fume extractors are a must.
  - kevindamm 2y ago
    Agree with this but also want to stress the importance of washing your hands after handling solder, to be sure. And any affected surfaces in your work station / area. You don't want to accidentally ingest tiny bits of lead from the solder, and this probably goes for solder without lead too.
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    one of my soldering irons regularly glows cherry red hot when under usage. So far past 400 C. I don't use that every time I solder, but sometimes I do That being said, I think the impact of the lead may be tiny compared to the rosin fumes. The real issue is someone in a factory who may handle leaded solder ever single day. The accumulated exposure over a lifetime is a big deal
    - dicknuckle 2y ago
      There's something extremely wrong with that iron. I've had a Tenma soldering station to that once, caused by a bad thermocouple that was lying to the controller.
      - sidewndr46 2y ago
        thermostat burned out not longer after I bought it. Good iron design, bad thermostat design. It works great for soldering pipe and bar stock together. Don't leave it plugged in for very long.
  - Blackthorn 2y ago
    Solder is absolutely a problem. The life cycle of your part doesn't just include when you solder it. It includes anyone who has to handle it in the future, and it includes the E-Waste dump in an impoverished country that it inevitably ends up in.
    - Workaccount2 2y ago
      Not really, metallic lead is pretty inert. Its lead compounds and lead dust that are dangerous.
      - ta988 2y ago
        recycled PCBs are often turned into dust.
        smcin 2y ago
        Not just due to the Pb dust though, also Al, Fe, Cu, fiberglass: "Mineralogical analysis of dust collected from typical recycling line of waste printed circuit boards" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0956053X15004353 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09560...
        ta988 2y ago
        Yes and Cu and fiberglass and the resins are especially toxic too
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    I have a big spool of lead solder probably from the 1980s and I store it like treasure. It’s so much better than modern solder.
    - 0_____0 2y ago
      You can just buy SnPb solder today, probably with better fluxes than whatever they were using in the 80s. Non-Pb solders also work fine for almost everything (I keep a little bit of SnPb around but do most of my work in lead-free), the big thing is to have a good iron and good tips. Makes way more difference than the solder composition.
    - Aurornis 2y ago
      I have good news for you. Leaded solder never went away. It’s still available. Modern solder and fluxes are also likely to outperform 40 year old solder.
    - rasz 2y ago
      You can still buy brand new solder intended for medical/mil use made in Europe/Poland by Cynel https://www.cynel.com.pl/en/?view=article&id=99:sn60pb40-pro&catid=13 https://www.cynel.com.pl/en/?view=article&id=99:sn60pb40-pro... Fun fact - Rambo knows his stuff and uses Cynel sn60pb40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3XRrPZRJEw&t=11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3XRrPZRJEw&t=11
  - CarVac 2y ago
    Solder spatters everywhere even if it's not vaporized. The resulting lead-bearing powder gets everywhere.
    - mrob 2y ago
      This is especially true of hand soldering. Hand soldering requires regular cleaning of the soldering iron tip. Both the common methods (brass wool and damp sponge) produce many tiny balls of solder that roll and bounce easily. They can end up caught in clothing then fall into food.
- kragen 2y ago
  Leaded solder in electronics is not a significant source of human exposure. In jewelry, maybe, but it's unusual to use it there, and in plumbing.
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    For most people or specifically among those who touch electronics for a living?
    - kragen 2y ago
      Even among those who touch electronics for a living. There are occupations that do get significant lead exposure (as the article points out), but electronics technicians have never been among them, even before fume extractors were common for soldering. Metallic lead is sufficiently hard to oxidize that even most people with lead bullets embedded in their bodies don't get lead poisoning, and, at soldering temperatures, lead's vapor pressure is not sufficient to reach a toxic dose, even taking into account lead's horrific tendency to bioaccumulate.
- the__alchemist 2y ago
  I concur. Recommending unleaded software to hobbyists makes people irrationally hostile. I have a theory of why...
  - Aurornis 2y ago
    I know you’re joking, but leaded solder is significantly easier to work with on a hobbyist level. As long as you’re washing your hands properly and avoiding contact contamination it’s not an issue. I’m always amazed when I see people using lead-free solder for “health reasons” who then inhale all of the fumes from their flux, though.
    - CarVac 2y ago
      It's significantly easier if you have grossly inadequate soldering equipment. This is 2025, you can get properly temperature-controlled soldering irons for dirt cheap now.
      - murderfs 2y ago
        Temperature control isn't usually the real problem, it's insufficient power to heat the board up to the liquidus temperature of the solder. This is an especially annoying pain in the ass when you're desoldering components from a board with non-thermal relief pads connected to gigantic copper pours, where you basically have to either use hot air or a board preheater.
        CarVac 2y ago
        I run a hobbyist open source hardware project that is user-assembled (PhobGCC) and even though our early boards had bad thermal relief a basic Pinecil is good enough to desolder SAC305 or SN99. But most of the issues with soldering came from people using uncontrolled irons that were either too hot, instantly burning off pads, or too cold thus not letting the flux punch through the oxides. When you get to big copper fills, SN63 helps, but ChipQuik helps more. So does a Thermaltronics TMT-1000S which is coming next month at $125. (love my TMT-2000S but the 1000S looks to be a steal)
- MengerSponge 2y ago
  You can mitigate the risk: set up a good extraction filter and wash your hands when you finish work.
  - foxglacier 2y ago
    Extraction fans have nothing to do with it. You don't get lead gas or floating particles in the air when you're soldering.
- userbinator 2y ago
  This is just an anecdote, but I know someone who worked with leaded solder since he was a young teen, and he sometimes holds the solder in his mouth(!) when working on tricky joints. He is in his early 90s now and still very healthy.
  - soupfordummies 2y ago
    working on tricky solder joints in your NINETIES is kinda wild on its own!
    - userbinator 2y ago
      I suspect there are far more people like that, and we just don't hear about them because they keep to themselves. This Youtuber is an exception: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40519095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40519095
- buildsjets 2y ago
  I wonder how much lead a solder sucker aerosolizes.
  - relaxing 2y ago
    It doesn’t.
    - buildsjets 2y ago
      The fine coating of solder dust on my workbench suggests that you are wrong.
      - relaxing 2y ago
        How do you know the dust is solder? How is the solder getting out of the sucker? Let alone turning into a fine powder? How much desoldering are you doing?? There are far more likely sources of particulate matter, such as flux which we know does get aerosolized.
- coryrc 2y ago
  Metallic lead isn't especially bioavailable. Lead in paint is not metallic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_paint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_paint You don't use solder in a place where it's exposed to friction (like window sashes with lead paint) which makes a dust, nor do you put it places where it's exposed to food or drink (again, hopefully) like with pewter or lead glass (crystal).
  - garbagewoman 2y ago
    Lead compounds that are formed from common reactions between metallic lead and other compounds are, on the other hand, incredibly bioavailable, and very common
jagged-chisel 2y ago
Reading the headline I was imagining the euphemistic “get the lead out” and wondered if this would be about handling procrastination. It is not. :-)
brianbreslin 2y ago
Getting lead out of our environments (housing stock, schools, etc) would do wonders to improving quality of life for so many people globally. Not just for those directly poisoned by it. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis
MrVandemar 2y ago
Meanwhile PFAS is in everything, including some paper and carboard (so don't burn it) and very little sign of it being regulated, much less stopped. See: - https://www.propublica.org/article/3m-forever-chemicals-pfas-pfos-inside-story https://www.propublica.org/article/3m-forever-chemicals-pfas... - https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-contaminants/dangerous-pfas-chemicals-are-in-your-food-packaging-a3786252074/ https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-contaminants/dan... ... or just use the search engine of your choice.
- colechristensen 2y ago
  Minnesota has enacted some pretty strong and broad bans on PFAS already in effect with more to be phased in over the next 7 years. Food packaging, firefighting foam, cookware, and a broad selection of consumer products. https://www.pca.state.mn.us/air-water-land-climate/2025-pfas-prohibitions https://www.pca.state.mn.us/air-water-land-climate/2025-pfas...
  - phtrivier 2y ago
    "How dare they enfringe on the free speech of corporations using their free speech to freely sell freedom-pfas to American citizens ? I hope the agency overseeing this communist-woke crusade against free speech is going to get DOGEd out of existence" /sarcasm (but, barely)
- smcin 2y ago
  3M's decades-long litigation about PFAS: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=PFAS+3M https://hn.algolia.com/?q=PFAS+3M And even after the settlements ever get resolved and it's no longer being produced in developed countries, economics says they'll just ship the waste to LDCs.
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  I hear it's more efficient to not worry about these things.
rrmm 2y ago
Allison Hayes is another person who campaigned against lead--this time in vitamin supplements--which lead to a change in FDA rules. She was a frequent actor in Roger Corman's B-movies which is where I first encountered her. She suffered disability from the lead in Calcium supplements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Hayes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Hayes
- whycome 2y ago
  > which lead to a change in FDA rules. This seems like a relevant typo.
whycome 2y ago
> She broke gender barriers in the broader sciences that opened stodgy male-dominated fields to women. And her approach to social justice—combining evidence-based research, interdisciplinary collaboration and community engagement—remains the blueprint for nearly all public health and policy fights today, from the smallest neighborhood disputes to global battles over pollution, natural resources and climate change. You might say that we all follow her lead. (She led the way)
- louthy 2y ago
  You’re plumbing new depths of humour there.
  - gregw2 2y ago
    Plumbing? I think of it a /refining/ the presentation of the argument. Or /distilling/, if you will...
    - BenjiWiebe 2y ago
      Lead's symbol is Pb, from plumbum. Which is where the word plumb/plumbing comes from.
      - gregw2 2y ago
        Yeah yeah, I was joking about leaded gas refining/distilling. :-)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
CalRobert 2y ago
Any chemists here able to comment on the recent lead test kits around? Eg lumetallix.com and detectlead.com. I have one and like it but don’t know how accurate it is. Had some leaded Pyrex among other things
- amluto 2y ago
  I’m not a chemist, but: As I understand it, the biggest source of lead that gets inside people is paint, especially where windows rub against it. And sometimes lead paint has been painted over but can still become airborne when abraded. I would be surprised if these tests can detect it. Get an XRF test instead — this will quantify the amount of lead at or even under the surface. You can do this by getting a lead testing contractor to come over, and a friendly one will test as many spots as you like in a single visit. Or I suppose you could try to buy the machine, but it isn’t cheap. (Wirecutter says the main ingredient in these fluorescence tests is methylammonium bromide.)
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    Unfortunately I couldn't find anyone to show up with an XRF kit - nobody in Europe seems to take lead paint seriously.
    - rrmm 2y ago
      Was lead paint as widespread in Europe as it was in North America?
      - CalRobert 2y ago
        It varied by region. The Netherlands banned it almost a century ago. Ireland in the early 90's IIRC.
    - logifail 2y ago
      > nobody in Europe seems to take lead paint seriously Do you live in an older property or do you think there might be a significant amount of lead-containing paint in your living/working environment? (Not suggesting lead isn't a problem, but I've dealt with a bunch of much, much more toxic substances [full disclosure: PhD Chem]) FWIW, the UK banned lead paint over 30 years ago, lead water pipes 55 years ago, and leaded petrol 25 years ago. There's a paper suggesting lead pollution may be approaching natural background levels https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i40/Lead-pollution-approaches-natural-background.html https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i40/Lead-pollution-approache...
jmyeet 2y ago
In the US, crime basically kept increasing until the 1990s and have been on a downward trend ever since. If you've fallen for the modern crime panic, it's completely manufactured. Look at any graph that goes back 40+ years and then tell me what the trend is. The reason for this is hotly debated. One theory is that it coincides with being 18 years or so after abortion was legalized [1]. The argument is that not forcing people to be parents who don't want to be and aren't equipped to be as well as this skewing to lower socioeconomic status. The link between poverty and crime has been well-established going back to Ancient Greece. In some ways, this is an uncomfortable argument because it's basically eugenics. In support of this, abortion access varied state-to-state by up to several years and the trends tend to follow that. But this is a US-specific argument and I believe the trend was present in other countries. The second big argument is removing lead from gasoline (in particular, but also water because of lead pipes) [2]. I really wonder what societal problems and public health incidents in the future will come down to micro-plastics. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_e... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis
- lordgrenville 2y ago
  My pet theory is the proliferation of digital entertainment options, and gaming / online culture. There are a lot more ways to keep yourself occupied inside, so less reason to go out and get into trouble.
  - cubefox 2y ago
    Pretty sure I heard this theory held by social scientists as well.
  - jandrese 2y ago
    Not just digital, this trend started back in the analog TV era. Gaming consoles certainly contributed as well. Note that the decrease in crime coincides with a decrease in teen pregnancy, but also a decrease in fertility rates in general.
- 2y ago
tonetegeatinst 2y ago
I'm pretty sure a lot of small to y planes use leaded gas.... Correct me if I'm wrong though cuz iv always wondered how bad the fumes would be to a community thats near a busy airport. Iv always hear jokes about how lead is the miracle element....its great for so many things and pushing efficiency in many areas....but the human body just can't stand it at all.
- djmips 2y ago
  Indeed, I live near a seaport and there are many a day where the wind blows the fumes in our direction. I do know that the larger seaplanes use lead free fuel but the smaller planes do as I understand it.
- someothherguyy 2y ago
  Go sample the air and find out, be a hero
  - lazide 2y ago
    There were many, many studies. Answer: minimal, but measurable, compared to other sources. So worth getting rid of eventually, but not a major priority.
- louwrentius 2y ago
  Scott Manley has a very detailed video[0] about usage of lead in aviation fuel, for smaller piston aircraft. From my perspective, it’s absolutely ludicrous that we still allow lead to be used in any kind of fuel at all. [0]: https://youtu.be/8zfIy17q9sE?si=f9K31eeecOde_YzO https://youtu.be/8zfIy17q9sE?si=f9K31eeecOde_YzO
  - Retric 2y ago
    It’s disappointing but predictable. Lead use by a subset of small piston aircraft is several orders of magnitude less than when cars used leaded gas. So the general public doesn’t care that much, but aircraft owners care a great deal. That’s a voting block which often ends up being appeased in a democracy.
giorgosts 2y ago
What about the use of lead in car batteries? Even if there are requirements for recycling, it is still a burden for the environment and the people that have to deal with the material is its various stages.
- GJim 2y ago
  The last time I checked, one wasn't at risk of ingesting or inhaling the lead from a car battery. Furthermore, it is simple to recycle safely.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  Not a serious concern because they're such a concentrated source of lead that they're lucrative to recycle.
- BenjiWiebe 2y ago
  Most places even pay you to recycle a lead acid battery. A "core charge" that's only refunded when you return the old battery.
camkego 2y ago
I am not sure why we are taping lead onto pickleball paddles where it can fall off in the gyms where children play on the floors.
- cjrp 2y ago
  Especially when alternatives like tungsten tape exist.
s_dev 2y ago
The whole lead poisoning scandals are really great examples of how capitalism/free markets have serious limits to what they can achieve. They should should be seen as a useful tool to help make certain markets more efficient and not as an ideology to embraced without limitations. Even when consumers understood that leaded petrol for example was contaminating the air and water with carcinogens that harmed many many people especially babies and small children the market still had demanded leaded petrol and that demand was catered to by companies making huge profits and scientists deemed that there was no safe threshold. It's been speculated that the fall of the Roman Empire can be partially attributed to prevalence of lead pipes and leaded drinking vessels. When a critical mass of elites/rulers have lead poisoning there was a subsequent collapse of those societies. In short it's basically a national security issue even if it does make fuel cheaper and more effective.
- Anotheroneagain 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    How much lead do you supplement with?
  - lfaw 2y ago
    Can you please point to a source where it says that 'lead is an essential nutrient'? Or a source to any of your other extraordinary claims?
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
    LOL what is this nonsense? "Lead’s toxicity was recognized and recorded as early as 2000 BC and the widespread use of lead has been a cause of endemic chronic plumbism in several societies throughout history. The Greek philosopher Nikander of Colophon in 250 BC reported on the colic and anemia resulting from lead poisoning. Hippocrates related gout to the food and wine, though the association between gout and lead poisoning was not recognized during this period ( 450-380 BC). Later during the Roman period, gout was prevalent among the upper classes of Roman society and is believed to be a result of the enormous lead intake." https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/get_the_lead_out/pdfs/health/Needleman_1999.pdf https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/get_the_lead_o...
amelius 2y ago
If the toxicity of lead were discovered today, it would have been dismissed as a giant conspiracy.
- pjc50 2y ago
  By whom, though? The usual people who dismiss everything as a conspiracy? I'm sure there would be a profitable market in selling lead products to contrarians, but one of the big characteristics of the scientific policy world since lead is investigating all the various industrial poisons people have been exposed to. Culminating in the EU "chemicals" regulation which basically assumes that everything is unsafe unless proved otherwise.
xienze 2y ago
> “Many times … I met men who employed foreign-born labor because it was cheap and submissive, and then washed their hands of all responsibility,” she wrote. “They deliberately chose such men because it meant … a surplus of eager, undemanding labor.” Interesting parallels to today...
gregwebs 2y ago
Today there is a one woman campaign against lead in consumer products by Tamara Rubin. [1] Unfortunately she doesn't know how to make a professional looking website and doesn't have a degree as a doctor (which would be of no value in her endeavor- operating an XRF tester and posting the results). She is however trained and certified in performing XRF tests and has probably done more XRF testing of consumer products than any other human being. Her testing has been verified independently when the CPI initiated recalls of for example baby bottles after her initial reporting. I found her information after one of my children tested high for lead levels even though there are no lead paint issues in our neighborhood. The highest risk for severe lead contamination is still things from our past. Painting can still be dangerous- some houses still have original lead paint that has been painted on top of or they could have a deck that was painted with marine paint (which is still allowed to have lead). Another higher risk level is antique dishware. In modern products lead and other heavy metal contamination issues are still somewhat widespread, but thankful at much lower levels than in the past- to the point that most people won't test high for heavy metals. But unfortunately it's possible to accidentally buy the wrong products and get unsafe exposure levels. We only really have safety standards for products marketed to kids (e.g. baby bottles). If the same level of contamination exists on a small plate that is used by a child, it won't be recalled. For consumers it is often impossible to know if there is heavy metal contamination in a product. California's Prop 65 warning often indicates an issue with lead, but the issue could just be that the company didn't want to bother testing for lead in their product. I think it is worthwhile to try to transition cookware and drinkware towards materials that are known to almost always be lead and heavy metal free- Stainless steel, cast iron, and clear glass. Additionally, this becomes another reason to eat whole foods since the manufacturing processes can also cause low levels of contamination. [1] https://tamararubin.com/ https://tamararubin.com/
- MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago
  Wow! This is a great website. And it looks fine. And she replies in the comments. Sad quote: > If you look above in this article there is a list of 49 things we have tested so far (49/245 published articles, and that is going to bump to 55 this week) that have all tested safe by the strictest standards – that’s about 20%. https://tamararubin.com/2025/01/daves-killer-bread-thin-sliced-21-whole-grains-and-seeds/ https://tamararubin.com/2025/01/daves-killer-bread-thin-slic...
dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
[flagged]
leoc 2y ago
Re-reposting this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28502232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28502232 by https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=heymijo https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=heymijo from the 2021 HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28500508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28500508 of this Smithsonian article on leaded gasoline https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison- https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison-... . The MentalFloss article about Clair Patterson is especially good. Pasting the comment in full (again, this is heymijo's work not mine): > Two beliefs became entrenched: 1. that lead is natural to the human body, and 2. that a poisoning threshold for lead existed Robert Kehoe, working for GM, was the chief advocate for leaded gasoline, and really the only person/lab doing research on lead until Clair Patterson stumbled into it while measuring the age of the earth. [0,1] A modern equivalent might be if Facebook was the only organization researching social media's impact on society, while being able to set the paradigm/assumptions about said safety for half a century. So even when Patterson's research was published in 1965, it took time to change the paradigm, and more time to phase out lead's use. Should anyone want to read a narrative about the intertwined lives of Midgley, Patterson, Kehoe and lead, then this Mental Floss article is a good read. [2] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Kehoe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Kehoe [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_Cameron_Patterson#Campai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_Cameron_Patterson#Campai... [2] https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/94569/clair-patterson-sc https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/94569/clair-patterson-sc...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Anotheroneagain 2y ago
  So even when Patterson's research was published in 1965 It's a rambling article that provides no real evidence, only speculation about future discoveries (which never came) and absurd arguments why its concentration is supposed to be smaller.
- hnburnsy 2y ago
  I would add this video from Veritasium linking lead to 800 million lost IQ points and an increase in crime... "The Man Who Accidentally Killed The Most People In History" https://www.veritasium.com/videos/2022/4/22/the-man-who-accidentally-killed-the-most-people-in-history https://www.veritasium.com/videos/2022/4/22/the-man-who-acci...
deleted 2y ago
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sweeter 2y ago
If this was today people would say it's your personal right to consume lead and use leaded gas (aka freedom fuel) and we'd never be able to remove it lol
LeadSafeMama1 2y ago
Hello - there is a comment thread below about my work. Not sure how to respond within the thread, but I thought people here might be interested in watching the documentary film that I directed and produced on the subject of Lead poisoning. It has interviews with top experts and music donated by the Who and Tom Waits. Jon Fishman (drummer of Phish) is an executive producer of the project too (I helped his family when his kiddo tested positive for Lead). Here's the link to the film on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMbhbwMhs1U&t=7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMbhbwMhs1U&t=7s - There are also lots of videos showing different lead testing methods (and discussing issues with various methods) on my YouTube channel. Thanks for checking it out. T
LeadSafeMama1 2y ago
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elchief 2y ago
and yet One in Four US Households Likely Exceed New Soil Lead Guidance Levels https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2024GH001045 https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2024GH00...
londons_explore 2y ago
One would probably assume that there are lots of derelict lead mines everywhere since the world decided to stop using lead... Unfortunately, lead mining today is pretty much stable[1], with only slight decreases in production volumes. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/264871/production-of-lead-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/264871/production-of-lea...
ClownsAbound 2y ago
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420 points by Hooke 2y ago

I still wonder about all the hobbiests, including occasionally myself who might not be treating leaded solder with the caution it deserves. I use unleaded solder but I also fix older gear.

rasz 2y ago
Solder is not the problem, soldering fumes do not contain vaporized lead as that would require >400C. They might and often do contain vaporized flux/colophony/resin. You reaaaaaaallllyyyy dont want to breath that thus fume extractors are a must.
- kevindamm 2y ago
  Agree with this but also want to stress the importance of washing your hands after handling solder, to be sure. And any affected surfaces in your work station / area. You don't want to accidentally ingest tiny bits of lead from the solder, and this probably goes for solder without lead too.
- sidewndr46 2y ago
  one of my soldering irons regularly glows cherry red hot when under usage. So far past 400 C. I don't use that every time I solder, but sometimes I do That being said, I think the impact of the lead may be tiny compared to the rosin fumes. The real issue is someone in a factory who may handle leaded solder ever single day. The accumulated exposure over a lifetime is a big deal
  - dicknuckle 2y ago
    There's something extremely wrong with that iron. I've had a Tenma soldering station to that once, caused by a bad thermocouple that was lying to the controller.
    - sidewndr46 2y ago
      thermostat burned out not longer after I bought it. Good iron design, bad thermostat design. It works great for soldering pipe and bar stock together. Don't leave it plugged in for very long.
- Blackthorn 2y ago
  Solder is absolutely a problem. The life cycle of your part doesn't just include when you solder it. It includes anyone who has to handle it in the future, and it includes the E-Waste dump in an impoverished country that it inevitably ends up in.
  - Workaccount2 2y ago
    Not really, metallic lead is pretty inert. Its lead compounds and lead dust that are dangerous.
    - ta988 2y ago
      recycled PCBs are often turned into dust.
      - smcin 2y ago
        Not just due to the Pb dust though, also Al, Fe, Cu, fiberglass: "Mineralogical analysis of dust collected from typical recycling line of waste printed circuit boards" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0956053X15004353 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09560...
        ta988 2y ago
        Yes and Cu and fiberglass and the resins are especially toxic too
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  I have a big spool of lead solder probably from the 1980s and I store it like treasure. It’s so much better than modern solder.
  - 0_____0 2y ago
    You can just buy SnPb solder today, probably with better fluxes than whatever they were using in the 80s. Non-Pb solders also work fine for almost everything (I keep a little bit of SnPb around but do most of my work in lead-free), the big thing is to have a good iron and good tips. Makes way more difference than the solder composition.
  - Aurornis 2y ago
    I have good news for you. Leaded solder never went away. It’s still available. Modern solder and fluxes are also likely to outperform 40 year old solder.
  - rasz 2y ago
    You can still buy brand new solder intended for medical/mil use made in Europe/Poland by Cynel https://www.cynel.com.pl/en/?view=article&id=99:sn60pb40-pro&catid=13 https://www.cynel.com.pl/en/?view=article&id=99:sn60pb40-pro... Fun fact - Rambo knows his stuff and uses Cynel sn60pb40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3XRrPZRJEw&t=11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3XRrPZRJEw&t=11
- CarVac 2y ago
  Solder spatters everywhere even if it's not vaporized. The resulting lead-bearing powder gets everywhere.
  - mrob 2y ago
    This is especially true of hand soldering. Hand soldering requires regular cleaning of the soldering iron tip. Both the common methods (brass wool and damp sponge) produce many tiny balls of solder that roll and bounce easily. They can end up caught in clothing then fall into food.
kragen 2y ago
Leaded solder in electronics is not a significant source of human exposure. In jewelry, maybe, but it's unusual to use it there, and in plumbing.
- saagarjha 2y ago
  For most people or specifically among those who touch electronics for a living?
  - kragen 2y ago
    Even among those who touch electronics for a living. There are occupations that do get significant lead exposure (as the article points out), but electronics technicians have never been among them, even before fume extractors were common for soldering. Metallic lead is sufficiently hard to oxidize that even most people with lead bullets embedded in their bodies don't get lead poisoning, and, at soldering temperatures, lead's vapor pressure is not sufficient to reach a toxic dose, even taking into account lead's horrific tendency to bioaccumulate.
the__alchemist 2y ago
I concur. Recommending unleaded software to hobbyists makes people irrationally hostile. I have a theory of why...
- Aurornis 2y ago
  I know you’re joking, but leaded solder is significantly easier to work with on a hobbyist level. As long as you’re washing your hands properly and avoiding contact contamination it’s not an issue. I’m always amazed when I see people using lead-free solder for “health reasons” who then inhale all of the fumes from their flux, though.
  - CarVac 2y ago
    It's significantly easier if you have grossly inadequate soldering equipment. This is 2025, you can get properly temperature-controlled soldering irons for dirt cheap now.
    - murderfs 2y ago
      Temperature control isn't usually the real problem, it's insufficient power to heat the board up to the liquidus temperature of the solder. This is an especially annoying pain in the ass when you're desoldering components from a board with non-thermal relief pads connected to gigantic copper pours, where you basically have to either use hot air or a board preheater.
      - CarVac 2y ago
        I run a hobbyist open source hardware project that is user-assembled (PhobGCC) and even though our early boards had bad thermal relief a basic Pinecil is good enough to desolder SAC305 or SN99. But most of the issues with soldering came from people using uncontrolled irons that were either too hot, instantly burning off pads, or too cold thus not letting the flux punch through the oxides. When you get to big copper fills, SN63 helps, but ChipQuik helps more. So does a Thermaltronics TMT-1000S which is coming next month at $125. (love my TMT-2000S but the 1000S looks to be a steal)
MengerSponge 2y ago
You can mitigate the risk: set up a good extraction filter and wash your hands when you finish work.
- foxglacier 2y ago
  Extraction fans have nothing to do with it. You don't get lead gas or floating particles in the air when you're soldering.
userbinator 2y ago
This is just an anecdote, but I know someone who worked with leaded solder since he was a young teen, and he sometimes holds the solder in his mouth(!) when working on tricky joints. He is in his early 90s now and still very healthy.
- soupfordummies 2y ago
  working on tricky solder joints in your NINETIES is kinda wild on its own!
  - userbinator 2y ago
    I suspect there are far more people like that, and we just don't hear about them because they keep to themselves. This Youtuber is an exception: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40519095 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40519095
buildsjets 2y ago
I wonder how much lead a solder sucker aerosolizes.
- relaxing 2y ago
  It doesn’t.
  - buildsjets 2y ago
    The fine coating of solder dust on my workbench suggests that you are wrong.
    - relaxing 2y ago
      How do you know the dust is solder? How is the solder getting out of the sucker? Let alone turning into a fine powder? How much desoldering are you doing?? There are far more likely sources of particulate matter, such as flux which we know does get aerosolized.
coryrc 2y ago
Metallic lead isn't especially bioavailable. Lead in paint is not metallic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_paint https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_paint You don't use solder in a place where it's exposed to friction (like window sashes with lead paint) which makes a dust, nor do you put it places where it's exposed to food or drink (again, hopefully) like with pewter or lead glass (crystal).
- garbagewoman 2y ago
  Lead compounds that are formed from common reactions between metallic lead and other compounds are, on the other hand, incredibly bioavailable, and very common

jagged-chisel 2y ago

Reading the headline I was imagining the euphemistic “get the lead out” and wondered if this would be about handling procrastination. It is not. :-)

brianbreslin 2y ago

Getting lead out of our environments (housing stock, schools, etc) would do wonders to improving quality of life for so many people globally. Not just for those directly poisoned by it. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis

MrVandemar 2y ago

Meanwhile PFAS is in everything, including some paper and carboard (so don't burn it) and very little sign of it being regulated, much less stopped. See: - https://www.propublica.org/article/3m-forever-chemicals-pfas-pfos-inside-story https://www.propublica.org/article/3m-forever-chemicals-pfas... - https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-contaminants/dangerous-pfas-chemicals-are-in-your-food-packaging-a3786252074/ https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-contaminants/dan... ... or just use the search engine of your choice.

colechristensen 2y ago
Minnesota has enacted some pretty strong and broad bans on PFAS already in effect with more to be phased in over the next 7 years. Food packaging, firefighting foam, cookware, and a broad selection of consumer products. https://www.pca.state.mn.us/air-water-land-climate/2025-pfas-prohibitions https://www.pca.state.mn.us/air-water-land-climate/2025-pfas...
- phtrivier 2y ago
  "How dare they enfringe on the free speech of corporations using their free speech to freely sell freedom-pfas to American citizens ? I hope the agency overseeing this communist-woke crusade against free speech is going to get DOGEd out of existence" /sarcasm (but, barely)
smcin 2y ago
3M's decades-long litigation about PFAS: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=PFAS+3M https://hn.algolia.com/?q=PFAS+3M And even after the settlements ever get resolved and it's no longer being produced in developed countries, economics says they'll just ship the waste to LDCs.
actionfromafar 2y ago
I hear it's more efficient to not worry about these things.

rrmm 2y ago

Allison Hayes is another person who campaigned against lead--this time in vitamin supplements--which lead to a change in FDA rules. She was a frequent actor in Roger Corman's B-movies which is where I first encountered her. She suffered disability from the lead in Calcium supplements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Hayes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allison_Hayes

whycome 2y ago
> which lead to a change in FDA rules. This seems like a relevant typo.

whycome 2y ago

> She broke gender barriers in the broader sciences that opened stodgy male-dominated fields to women. And her approach to social justice—combining evidence-based research, interdisciplinary collaboration and community engagement—remains the blueprint for nearly all public health and policy fights today, from the smallest neighborhood disputes to global battles over pollution, natural resources and climate change. You might say that we all follow her lead. (She led the way)

louthy 2y ago
You’re plumbing new depths of humour there.
- gregw2 2y ago
  Plumbing? I think of it a /refining/ the presentation of the argument. Or /distilling/, if you will...
  - BenjiWiebe 2y ago
    Lead's symbol is Pb, from plumbum. Which is where the word plumb/plumbing comes from.
    - gregw2 2y ago
      Yeah yeah, I was joking about leaded gas refining/distilling. :-)
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CalRobert 2y ago

Any chemists here able to comment on the recent lead test kits around? Eg lumetallix.com and detectlead.com. I have one and like it but don’t know how accurate it is. Had some leaded Pyrex among other things

amluto 2y ago
I’m not a chemist, but: As I understand it, the biggest source of lead that gets inside people is paint, especially where windows rub against it. And sometimes lead paint has been painted over but can still become airborne when abraded. I would be surprised if these tests can detect it. Get an XRF test instead — this will quantify the amount of lead at or even under the surface. You can do this by getting a lead testing contractor to come over, and a friendly one will test as many spots as you like in a single visit. Or I suppose you could try to buy the machine, but it isn’t cheap. (Wirecutter says the main ingredient in these fluorescence tests is methylammonium bromide.)
- CalRobert 2y ago
  Unfortunately I couldn't find anyone to show up with an XRF kit - nobody in Europe seems to take lead paint seriously.
  - rrmm 2y ago
    Was lead paint as widespread in Europe as it was in North America?
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      It varied by region. The Netherlands banned it almost a century ago. Ireland in the early 90's IIRC.
  - logifail 2y ago
    > nobody in Europe seems to take lead paint seriously Do you live in an older property or do you think there might be a significant amount of lead-containing paint in your living/working environment? (Not suggesting lead isn't a problem, but I've dealt with a bunch of much, much more toxic substances [full disclosure: PhD Chem]) FWIW, the UK banned lead paint over 30 years ago, lead water pipes 55 years ago, and leaded petrol 25 years ago. There's a paper suggesting lead pollution may be approaching natural background levels https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i40/Lead-pollution-approaches-natural-background.html https://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i40/Lead-pollution-approache...

jmyeet 2y ago

In the US, crime basically kept increasing until the 1990s and have been on a downward trend ever since. If you've fallen for the modern crime panic, it's completely manufactured. Look at any graph that goes back 40+ years and then tell me what the trend is. The reason for this is hotly debated. One theory is that it coincides with being 18 years or so after abortion was legalized [1]. The argument is that not forcing people to be parents who don't want to be and aren't equipped to be as well as this skewing to lower socioeconomic status. The link between poverty and crime has been well-established going back to Ancient Greece. In some ways, this is an uncomfortable argument because it's basically eugenics. In support of this, abortion access varied state-to-state by up to several years and the trends tend to follow that. But this is a US-specific argument and I believe the trend was present in other countries. The second big argument is removing lead from gasoline (in particular, but also water because of lead pipes) [2]. I really wonder what societal problems and public health incidents in the future will come down to micro-plastics. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_e... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis

lordgrenville 2y ago
My pet theory is the proliferation of digital entertainment options, and gaming / online culture. There are a lot more ways to keep yourself occupied inside, so less reason to go out and get into trouble.
- cubefox 2y ago
  Pretty sure I heard this theory held by social scientists as well.
- jandrese 2y ago
  Not just digital, this trend started back in the analog TV era. Gaming consoles certainly contributed as well. Note that the decrease in crime coincides with a decrease in teen pregnancy, but also a decrease in fertility rates in general.
2y ago

tonetegeatinst 2y ago

I'm pretty sure a lot of small to y planes use leaded gas.... Correct me if I'm wrong though cuz iv always wondered how bad the fumes would be to a community thats near a busy airport. Iv always hear jokes about how lead is the miracle element....its great for so many things and pushing efficiency in many areas....but the human body just can't stand it at all.

djmips 2y ago
Indeed, I live near a seaport and there are many a day where the wind blows the fumes in our direction. I do know that the larger seaplanes use lead free fuel but the smaller planes do as I understand it.
someothherguyy 2y ago
Go sample the air and find out, be a hero
- lazide 2y ago
  There were many, many studies. Answer: minimal, but measurable, compared to other sources. So worth getting rid of eventually, but not a major priority.
louwrentius 2y ago
Scott Manley has a very detailed video[0] about usage of lead in aviation fuel, for smaller piston aircraft. From my perspective, it’s absolutely ludicrous that we still allow lead to be used in any kind of fuel at all. [0]: https://youtu.be/8zfIy17q9sE?si=f9K31eeecOde_YzO https://youtu.be/8zfIy17q9sE?si=f9K31eeecOde_YzO
- Retric 2y ago
  It’s disappointing but predictable. Lead use by a subset of small piston aircraft is several orders of magnitude less than when cars used leaded gas. So the general public doesn’t care that much, but aircraft owners care a great deal. That’s a voting block which often ends up being appeased in a democracy.

giorgosts 2y ago

What about the use of lead in car batteries? Even if there are requirements for recycling, it is still a burden for the environment and the people that have to deal with the material is its various stages.

GJim 2y ago
The last time I checked, one wasn't at risk of ingesting or inhaling the lead from a car battery. Furthermore, it is simple to recycle safely.
potato3732842 2y ago
Not a serious concern because they're such a concentrated source of lead that they're lucrative to recycle.
BenjiWiebe 2y ago
Most places even pay you to recycle a lead acid battery. A "core charge" that's only refunded when you return the old battery.

camkego 2y ago

I am not sure why we are taping lead onto pickleball paddles where it can fall off in the gyms where children play on the floors.

cjrp 2y ago
Especially when alternatives like tungsten tape exist.

s_dev 2y ago

The whole lead poisoning scandals are really great examples of how capitalism/free markets have serious limits to what they can achieve. They should should be seen as a useful tool to help make certain markets more efficient and not as an ideology to embraced without limitations. Even when consumers understood that leaded petrol for example was contaminating the air and water with carcinogens that harmed many many people especially babies and small children the market still had demanded leaded petrol and that demand was catered to by companies making huge profits and scientists deemed that there was no safe threshold. It's been speculated that the fall of the Roman Empire can be partially attributed to prevalence of lead pipes and leaded drinking vessels. When a critical mass of elites/rulers have lead poisoning there was a subsequent collapse of those societies. In short it's basically a national security issue even if it does make fuel cheaper and more effective.

Anotheroneagain 2y ago
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- lupusreal 2y ago
  How much lead do you supplement with?
- lfaw 2y ago
  Can you please point to a source where it says that 'lead is an essential nutrient'? Or a source to any of your other extraordinary claims?
- sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
  LOL what is this nonsense? "Lead’s toxicity was recognized and recorded as early as 2000 BC and the widespread use of lead has been a cause of endemic chronic plumbism in several societies throughout history. The Greek philosopher Nikander of Colophon in 250 BC reported on the colic and anemia resulting from lead poisoning. Hippocrates related gout to the food and wine, though the association between gout and lead poisoning was not recognized during this period ( 450-380 BC). Later during the Roman period, gout was prevalent among the upper classes of Roman society and is believed to be a result of the enormous lead intake." https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/get_the_lead_out/pdfs/health/Needleman_1999.pdf https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/get_the_lead_o...

amelius 2y ago

If the toxicity of lead were discovered today, it would have been dismissed as a giant conspiracy.

pjc50 2y ago
By whom, though? The usual people who dismiss everything as a conspiracy? I'm sure there would be a profitable market in selling lead products to contrarians, but one of the big characteristics of the scientific policy world since lead is investigating all the various industrial poisons people have been exposed to. Culminating in the EU "chemicals" regulation which basically assumes that everything is unsafe unless proved otherwise.

xienze 2y ago

> “Many times … I met men who employed foreign-born labor because it was cheap and submissive, and then washed their hands of all responsibility,” she wrote. “They deliberately chose such men because it meant … a surplus of eager, undemanding labor.” Interesting parallels to today...

gregwebs 2y ago

Today there is a one woman campaign against lead in consumer products by Tamara Rubin. [1] Unfortunately she doesn't know how to make a professional looking website and doesn't have a degree as a doctor (which would be of no value in her endeavor- operating an XRF tester and posting the results). She is however trained and certified in performing XRF tests and has probably done more XRF testing of consumer products than any other human being. Her testing has been verified independently when the CPI initiated recalls of for example baby bottles after her initial reporting. I found her information after one of my children tested high for lead levels even though there are no lead paint issues in our neighborhood. The highest risk for severe lead contamination is still things from our past. Painting can still be dangerous- some houses still have original lead paint that has been painted on top of or they could have a deck that was painted with marine paint (which is still allowed to have lead). Another higher risk level is antique dishware. In modern products lead and other heavy metal contamination issues are still somewhat widespread, but thankful at much lower levels than in the past- to the point that most people won't test high for heavy metals. But unfortunately it's possible to accidentally buy the wrong products and get unsafe exposure levels. We only really have safety standards for products marketed to kids (e.g. baby bottles). If the same level of contamination exists on a small plate that is used by a child, it won't be recalled. For consumers it is often impossible to know if there is heavy metal contamination in a product. California's Prop 65 warning often indicates an issue with lead, but the issue could just be that the company didn't want to bother testing for lead in their product. I think it is worthwhile to try to transition cookware and drinkware towards materials that are known to almost always be lead and heavy metal free- Stainless steel, cast iron, and clear glass. Additionally, this becomes another reason to eat whole foods since the manufacturing processes can also cause low levels of contamination. [1] https://tamararubin.com/ https://tamararubin.com/

MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago
Wow! This is a great website. And it looks fine. And she replies in the comments. Sad quote: > If you look above in this article there is a list of 49 things we have tested so far (49/245 published articles, and that is going to bump to 55 this week) that have all tested safe by the strictest standards – that’s about 20%. https://tamararubin.com/2025/01/daves-killer-bread-thin-sliced-21-whole-grains-and-seeds/ https://tamararubin.com/2025/01/daves-killer-bread-thin-slic...

dennis_jeeves2 2y ago

[flagged]

leoc 2y ago

Re-reposting this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28502232 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28502232 by https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=heymijo https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=heymijo from the 2021 HN discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28500508 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28500508 of this Smithsonian article on leaded gasoline https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison- https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/leaded-gas-poison-... . The MentalFloss article about Clair Patterson is especially good. Pasting the comment in full (again, this is heymijo's work not mine): > Two beliefs became entrenched: 1. that lead is natural to the human body, and 2. that a poisoning threshold for lead existed Robert Kehoe, working for GM, was the chief advocate for leaded gasoline, and really the only person/lab doing research on lead until Clair Patterson stumbled into it while measuring the age of the earth. [0,1] A modern equivalent might be if Facebook was the only organization researching social media's impact on society, while being able to set the paradigm/assumptions about said safety for half a century. So even when Patterson's research was published in 1965, it took time to change the paradigm, and more time to phase out lead's use. Should anyone want to read a narrative about the intertwined lives of Midgley, Patterson, Kehoe and lead, then this Mental Floss article is a good read. [2] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Kehoe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Kehoe [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_Cameron_Patterson#Campai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_Cameron_Patterson#Campai... [2] https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/94569/clair-patterson-sc https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/94569/clair-patterson-sc...

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Anotheroneagain 2y ago
So even when Patterson's research was published in 1965 It's a rambling article that provides no real evidence, only speculation about future discoveries (which never came) and absurd arguments why its concentration is supposed to be smaller.
hnburnsy 2y ago
I would add this video from Veritasium linking lead to 800 million lost IQ points and an increase in crime... "The Man Who Accidentally Killed The Most People In History" https://www.veritasium.com/videos/2022/4/22/the-man-who-accidentally-killed-the-most-people-in-history https://www.veritasium.com/videos/2022/4/22/the-man-who-acci...

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sweeter 2y ago

If this was today people would say it's your personal right to consume lead and use leaded gas (aka freedom fuel) and we'd never be able to remove it lol

LeadSafeMama1 2y ago

Hello - there is a comment thread below about my work. Not sure how to respond within the thread, but I thought people here might be interested in watching the documentary film that I directed and produced on the subject of Lead poisoning. It has interviews with top experts and music donated by the Who and Tom Waits. Jon Fishman (drummer of Phish) is an executive producer of the project too (I helped his family when his kiddo tested positive for Lead). Here's the link to the film on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMbhbwMhs1U&t=7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMbhbwMhs1U&t=7s - There are also lots of videos showing different lead testing methods (and discussing issues with various methods) on my YouTube channel. Thanks for checking it out. T

LeadSafeMama1 2y ago

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elchief 2y ago

and yet One in Four US Households Likely Exceed New Soil Lead Guidance Levels https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2024GH001045 https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2024GH00...

londons_explore 2y ago

One would probably assume that there are lots of derelict lead mines everywhere since the world decided to stop using lead... Unfortunately, lead mining today is pretty much stable[1], with only slight decreases in production volumes. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/264871/production-of-lead-worldwide/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/264871/production-of-lea...

ClownsAbound 2y ago

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